Should social network sites be banned in the Public Sector?

n97 mini

Unless of course there is a valid use for them like in AGS, or a valid use for specific individuals such as to update twitter etc.

Reason I ask is when I worked in the PS they were banned in the organisation I worked for. Boards.ie was one of the banned sites.

It wasn't company policy per se, just the IT Manager took the view that they were a waste of time.

(Most recent private company I worked in had no internet access at all for most staff -- but please, I don't want to turn this into a Public vs Private thing).

Would banning them in the PS where these is no business need improve productivity and assist with the implementation of the Croke Park Agreement?

Riskymove

n97 mini wrote: »

Reason I ask is when I worked in the PS they were banned in the organisation I worked for. Boards.ie was one of the banned sites.

wouldn't that suggest that they are banned?

n97 mini

Riskymove wrote: »

wouldn't that suggest that they are banned?

It would, in that one PS organisation only. Maybe I'm wrong but my understanding there is no PS-wide ban.

mikemac

It's down to the IT guys in the area

You'll often find shopping sites that girls may use are blocked but the lads use the racingpost and that is unblocked. Soccer sites like www.foot.ie also unblocked

Yet www.lotto.ie was blocked for gambling :rolleyes:

Have never seen twitter blocked but facebook is, depends where you are

A policy for every office and site would make sense instead of leaving it to the whims of the local manager who may or may not have certain favourite sites

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

Would banning them in the Private Sector where these is no business need improve productivity

Post could also read likt the above.
in my PS place, facebook, twitter, flickr are all banned. images etc are banned and alot of various sites such as rte player wont work.

we also get 1 hour of net access per day, so each little log on, may use up 5 mins of time say, and once we reach our hour then thats it.

some days we wont be on it much more than 5 mins or some day your hour would be used up, mostly when we are PDF'ing documents. Today i had to PDF a document i made which took nearly 2 hours to PDF, so i could not do much else tbh. it is a document with many maps, graphics and image heavy so thats why it took so long.

trying to be honest here so dont slate!

n97 mini

kceire wrote: »

Post could also read likt the above.

I said I didn't want to turn this into a PS vs Private thing. The latter are not part of the CPA etc.

kceire wrote: »

in my PS place, facebook, twitter, flickr are all banned.

Is boards.ie? It was the first to go when I was in the PS. Tho at another stage I ran a search site for a while and Revenue employees seemed to spend a lot of their day on it.

n97 mini

mikemac wrote: »

A policy for every office and site would make sense instead of leaving it to the whims of the local manager who may or may not have certain favourite sites

It would as a lot of them are coming through the "govt VPN" anyway. I never understood why more PS IT function wasn't part of a shared service.

woodoo

Betting sites, facebook, twitter, bebo, youtube etc are all are banned where i work. Most public servants are responsible workers and don't abuse the internet.

doc_17

n97 mini wrote: »

Unless of course there is a valid use for them like in AGS, or a valid use for specific individuals such as to update twitter etc.

Reason I ask is when I worked in the PS they were banned in the organisation I worked for. Boards.ie was one of the banned sites.

It wasn't company policy per se, just the IT Manager took the view that they were a waste of time.

(Most recent private company I worked in had no internet access at all for most staff -- but please, I don't want to turn this into a Public vs Private thing).

Would banning them in the PS where these is no business need improve productivity and assist with the implementation of the Croke Park Agreement?

I don't know why you only ask should they be banned in the PS if your idea is that they might improve productivity? Would this not be the same for any company? If they improve and are neccessary for your work allow them but if there is a risk that your staff would abuse them then they should be banned.

woodoo

Our private sector might be more productive if they spent a little less time on the internet. The country could certainly do with a little more productivity from them to help lower the jobless figures.

NotInventedHere

The advent of personal smartphones makes this discussion meaningless

n97 mini

woodoo wrote: »

Our private sector might be more productive if they spent a little less time on the internet. The country could certainly do with a little more productivity from them to help lower the jobless figures.

I had asked this not be turned into a public vs private thing, but that is a little rich...

n97 mini

doc_17 wrote: »

I don't know why you only ask should they be banned in the PS if your idea is that they might improve productivity?

Banning "surfing" during work hours presumably increases productivity, and I had mentioned the Croke Park Agreement, so......

andrew

Yeah. I mean, if there's one thing wrong with the Public Sector, it's that they spend too much time on Facebook and Twitter. Maybe if they weren't tweeting and Facebooking then they'd be much more efficient. Sure, the private sector has banned social networking, and look how efficient that is! But lets not stop there; oh no. the public sector is rife with idle chit chat. I say we mandate that people eat lunch at their desk, and have allotted to them a strictly enforced 5 minute limit on chit chat. That'll do it. Germany, eat your heart out.

/sarcasm

Sleepy

IT policy, like many other things in the PS, largely comes down to the professionalism of the person in charge. Having worked in quite a broad range of PS sites, some would put the private sector companies I've worked in to shame (particularly one guy who was the *entire* IT team of a large hospital, who, after requesting help for years and finally getting authorisation to hire a second member of his dept got hit with the hiring freeze!), others I've met are utter wasters. It seems to depend far more on the individuals own work ethic in the majority of PS organisations. The one organisation I've seen with a culture to rival anything in the private sector would be the NTMA. Not saying it's the only one that good, but it's the best I've direct experience of.

n97 mini

Good contribution andrew

/sarcasm

andrew

n97 mini wrote: »

Good contribution andrew

/sarcasm

I was highlighting the sillyness of the idea that banning social networking sites would have any effect on the productivity of the public sector, and the attitude (which I'm inferring, admittedly) that because we pay for the public sector, we're therefore qualified to make judgments/suggestions with regards to how it operates/should operate.

Head The Wall

The public sector don't seem too keen on regulation

sarumite

doc_17 wrote: »

I don't know why you only ask should they be banned in the PS if your idea is that they might improve productivity?

The government cannot set policy such as this for private companies. That is up to the management and the shareholders.

johnnyskeleton

I worked in a company which gave unlimited Internet access and provided that you met your daily work target you could look up whatever you wanted on the Internet (well, obviously within the bounds of legality, appropriateness etc).

This had two advantages:
1) there was an incentive to finish your tasks quickly and efficiently;
2) employees felt like valued adults rather than supervised school children.

n97 mini

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I worked in a company which gave unlimited Internet access and provided that you met your daily work target you could look up whatever you wanted on the Internet (well, obviously within the bounds of legality, appropriateness etc).

This had two advantages:
1) there was an incentive to finish your tasks quickly and efficiently;
2) employees felt like valued adults rather than supervised school children.

Not a bad idea. I worked for one where you could go home once you met your target. This would be never before about 3:30 tho.

Rabidlamb

Any place that uses filters can be bypassed by a proxy anyway.
Mute point in a tech savy world.

Gumbo

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I worked in a company which gave unlimited Internet access and provided that you met your daily work target you could look up whatever you wanted on the Internet (well, obviously within the bounds of legality, appropriateness etc).

This had two advantages:
1) there was an incentive to finish your tasks quickly and efficiently;
2) employees felt like valued adults rather than supervised school children.

I had this in my last job too.
We could download music, movies everything, but as you say, if the work wasn done then you got a good kick up the ass

DomhnallOg

The thread poses a simple question and demands a simple answer - yes. But it should be the same for all workplaces with relaxation of rules during lunchtime.

rodento

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Any place that uses filters can be bypassed by a proxy anyway.
Mute point in a tech savy world.

Thought that was a sackable offence

PCPhoto

People have smart phones if they wish to access the internet in work - banning access will only lead to more "smoke" breaks, "bathroom" breaks and just general dossing.

if people are not motivated to work they will not work, cutting their access to their escape from reality/work ...will make them even more disgruntled.

simple solution - give people access, let them know its not allowed and find/catch those that access various sites when they are in work and let them join the dole queue - I'm sure then others will change their mind as to if they should doss off and visit non work related sites.

(I know I'm contradicting myself but its meant that if someone is really taking the pi$$ and non productive make sure everyone knows they are fired due to accessing non-work websites.)

Blowfish

mikemac wrote: »

It's down to the IT guys in the area

You'll often find shopping sites that girls may use are blocked but the lads use the racingpost and that is unblocked. Soccer sites like www.foot.ie also unblocked

Yet www.lotto.ie was blocked for gambling :rolleyes:

Have never seen twitter blocked but facebook is, depends where you are

A policy for every office and site would make sense instead of leaving it to the whims of the local manager who may or may not have certain favourite sites

Blocks tend to be put in place based on category rather than individual sites. In your example above, sites are usually marked as 'gambling' sites if the gambling can be done directly from the site itself, hence why lotto.ie would be blocked but racingpost and foot.ie not.

Not sure why Facebook would be blocked and twitter not, they are usually lumped together.

NotInventedHere wrote: »

The advent of personal smartphones makes this discussion meaningless

Meaningless from a HR/efficiency perspective, but not from an IT one. A hell of a lot of malware etc. on peoples machines comes from people visiting random links from Facebook etc.

Anything other than security/malware or high bandwidth stuff though is usually blocked because HR wanted it, rather than IT.

fliball123

I wonder if Kev Cardiff missed the 3.6 billion double entry because he was twittering about how much cash he has in his bank account...Once again no accountability in the PS ..The likes of Mary Lou McD were trying to question him on it yesterday and the guy looked completely disinterested...Absolute disgrace but I am no longer shocked with what these guys get away with

n97 mini

fliball123 wrote: »

The likes of Mary Lou McD were trying to question him on it yesterday and the guy looked completely disinterested...Absolute disgrace but I am no longer shocked with what these guys get away with

He has shown contempt for elected representatives. I'm sure Mary Lou's, Shane Ross's, and others', constituents would like some answers.

Jumpy

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Any place that uses filters can be bypassed by a proxy anyway.
Mute point in a tech savy world.

If it is done right you cannot.

Also it's moot and savvy.

doc_17

n97 mini wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

I don't know why you only ask should they be banned in the PS if your idea is that they might improve productivity?

Banning "surfing" during work hours presumably increases productivity, and I had mentioned the Croke Park Agreement, so......

Yes but my post to you was about why mention the PS at all and if you didn't want public v private why mention the CPA? Is it your belief that PS workers are spending lots of time on Facebook, Twitter etc?

fliball123

n97 mini wrote: »

He has shown contempt for elected representatives. I'm sure Mary Lou's, Shane Ross's, and others', constituents would like some answers.

We would I was watching the oireachtas report last night and the neck on the lad...Unbelievable and they are sending him to Europe...I mean if I did something in my job and it cost the company say 10 k I would be fired..... but if they tried to get rid of this lad they would have to pay a pension and give a golden handskhake...thanks for the shackles PS unions....I hope Messrs beggs and Doran and the likes are proud of the way things are playing out in this country

doc_17

fliball123 wrote: »

n97 mini wrote: »

He has shown contempt for elected representatives. I'm sure Mary Lou's, Shane Ross's, and others', constituents would like some answers.

We would I was watching the oireachtas report last night and the neck on the lad...Unbelievable and they are sending him to Europe...I mean if I did something in my job and it cost the company say 10 k I would be fired..... but if they tried to get rid of this lad they would have to pay a pension and give a golden handskhake...thanks for the shackles PS unions....I hope Messrs beggs and Doran and the likes are proud of the way things are playing out in this country

Think there's already a thread about him

toxicity234

I working Public Service and they are banned and have being always.
Only two people in the office have access and they only have access to there work account. that its no other access,
The net is watched like a hawk,
So much so that i wanted to print a copy of my family tree and A3 sheet,
Hit print and got a phone call from our I.T. guy asking what i was doing??

Ash.J.Williams

I do some IT work for a Public Sector dept and have found their policies to be the strictest I have ever encountered.

n97 mini

doc_17 wrote: »

Think there's already a thread about him

Accidental cross thread posting... too many browser windows open!

RobbieTheRobber

n97 mini wrote: »

Unless of course there is a valid use for them like in AGS, or a valid use for specific individuals such as to update twitter etc.

Reason I ask is when I worked in the PS they were banned in the organisation I worked for. Boards.ie was one of the banned sites.

It wasn't company policy per se, just the IT Manager took the view that they were a waste of time.

(Most recent private company I worked in had no internet access at all for most staff -- but please, I don't want to turn this into a Public vs Private thing).

Would banning them in the PS where these is no business need improve productivity and assist with the implementation of the Croke Park Agreement?

N97 can you show me some evidence that banning social network sites increases productivity.

n97 mini

toxicity234 wrote: »

I working Public Service and they are banned and have being always.

Is boards.ie banned?

n97 mini

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

N97 can you show me some evidence that banning social network sites increases productivity.

I've absolutely none. But if some of the temptations are taken away, then...

Would you think that access to non business related sites reduces, increases, or has no effect on productivity?

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

Is boards.ie banned?

Is it banned in your place of work?

RobbieTheRobber

n97 mini wrote: »

I've absolutely none. But if some of the temptations are taken away, then...

Would you think that access to non business related sites reduces, increases, or has no effect on productivity?

Any recent articles i have read on this topic have seemed to indicate that banning social network sites has no relation to an increase in productivity and that a relaxed attitude increases worker happiness which increases productivity.

Im open to any evidence of the contrary.

MrO

kceire wrote: »

some days we wont be on it much more than 5 mins or some day your hour would be used up, mostly when we are PDF'ing documents. Today i had to PDF a document i made which took nearly 2 hours to PDF, so i could not do much else tbh. it is a document with many maps, graphics and image heavy so thats why it took so long.

trying to be honest here so dont slate!

I have never heard of this approach - time based? It sounds absolutely crazy in this day and age (smartphones etc.)

By the way your IT guys are taking the p!ss if you have to PDF your documents online - if they put as much effort into helping you do work related tasks as opposed to stopping you doing non work related stuff maybe the PS would be a little more productive in general....

Jumpy

I think maybe kceire meant that theres nothing else to do while they are converting.

RobbieTheRobber

MrO wrote: »

I have never heard of this approach - time based? It sounds absolutely crazy in this day and age (smartphones etc.)

By the way your IT guys are taking the p!ss if you have to PDF your documents online - if they put as much effort into helping you do work related tasks as opposed to stopping you doing non work related stuff maybe the PS would be a little more productive in general....

Massive assumptions MrO
I think the OP's intentions were to stear this thread from a Public v private debate.

Government Networks contain much sensitive and confidential data of course a large portion of the ICT units time will be taken up by efforts to protect that data. :rolleyes:

Gumbo

MrO wrote: »

I have never heard of this approach - time based? It sounds absolutely crazy in this day and age (smartphones etc.)

By the way your IT guys are taking the p!ss if you have to PDF your documents online - if they put as much effort into helping you do work related tasks as opposed to stopping you doing non work related stuff maybe the PS would be a little more productive in general....

time based would stop people sitting on the net all day i suppose.

Also, the PDF conversion taks place on my PC, not online, dont know where that idea came from

so your rant about PS IT is ill founded im afraid?

Jumpy wrote: »

I think maybe kceire meant that theres nothing else to do while they are converting.

yep, its not thats there nothing else to do, its a case of while PDF'ing from CorelDraw or InDesign or similar, we dont want to be working on another document using the same program as the machines will crash 9 times out of 10!

n97 mini

doc_17 wrote: »

Yes but my post to you was about why mention the PS at all and if you didn't want public v private why mention the CPA?

The CPA is about reform of the Public Sector.

It's possible to talk about the Public Sector by itself, without needing to look over the fence at the Private Sector all the time. At least some people can do it.

RichardAnd

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Any place that uses filters can be bypassed by a proxy anyway.
Mute point in a tech savy world.

The civil service restrictions on the internet use aren't based on filters, it's privileges within a given user's account. The only way around the restrictions is to get an elevated account permission and the only way to do that is to get an administrator to give it to you, unless you're very tech savy.

doc_17

n97 mini wrote: »

The CPA is about reform of the Public Sector.

It's possible to talk about the Public Sector by itself, without needing to look over the fence at the Private Sector all the time. At least some people can do it.

Well ok then but you need to address my point. It doesn't matter if it's public or private. If having to restrict certain activities improves profitability/efficency then it is worth it, no matter the sector. That's all I was saying. You say you don't want to make this public V private but only mention the PS as if everyone working there is sitting gawking at it all day!

Is it your belief that the PS are spending too much time on Facebook and that this needs regualting?

RobbieTheRobber

n97 mini wrote: »

The CPA is about reform of the Public Sector.

It's possible to talk about the Public Sector by itself, without needing to look over the fence at the Private Sector all the time. At least some people can do it.

The CPA as an agreement would have been the wrong place to make specific suggestions for an organisation as big and as varied in its functions as the public service.

So an outright ban in the CPA on social networking would have been a stupid move.

At lower depertamental level I would expect that it is banned in most sections/departments in similiar percentages to the private sector ( i think thats around the 50% mark).

Most private businesses or governemnt departments dont usually ban these types of access until something happens at least in my experience.

You always have the few cycnical IT managers who view any personal use of office systems as abuse but I think this is a bad view to take and demoralises workers.



I also dont think there has been anything in the way of proof to show allowing SN use is bad for productivity. I recall one IT manager a long time ago who had me remove solitaire from all PC's be cause he was worried people would play it too much, its been a long time since i have heard that though.

MrO

kceire wrote: »

time based would stop people sitting on the net all day i suppose.

Also, the PDF conversion taks place on my PC, not online, dont know where that idea came from

so your rant about PS IT is ill founded im afraid?

Ah Fair enough - I misunderstood. By the way it wasn't rant about the PS - but I have worked with IT depts of all stripes and nothing suprises me these days.

MrO

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Massive assumptions MrO
I think the OP's intentions were to stear this thread from a Public v private debate.

Government Networks contain much sensitive and confidential data of course a large portion of the ICT units time will be taken up by efforts to protect that data. :rolleyes:

Not a Massive Assumption - a wee misunderstanding that's all