will i get fined

Jerri Jordan

My situation is im currently driving to work and home from work on L plates. I have applied for my test and so far I have taken 7 lessons with a proper instructor, and practice with my husband. I am still taking one lesson a week and intend to do so until I pass.
My journey takes 10 mins there and 10 mins back. I need to drive as im dropping my child to her minder. she is 2 and the weather here is just too awful to walk her in a pram and the walking distance to work and back in winter on top of that is not feasable for us. My husband works nights and he uses a bicycle so i can have the car. he used to work days and we shared the car.
I am a really careful driver and doing everything right according to my instructor. I have my L plates up and test booked.
My question is do other drivers hate it when you see learners driving unaccompanied ? and will i get a big fine if the guards stop me. they have seen me and always drive by me. should i pay for taxis to and from work and minders until im passed the test. im getting very worked over this cos i hate breaking the law.

L'prof

Take down the plates, I only used them for my test. Shhh

PCPhoto

if you are caught you face a fine and possibly a court appearance.

there are loads of other drivers in a similar situation and unfortunately that is the law, look at it another way ...if you were 17years old (again), just got a provisional licence and got insurance on your parents car..... would you drive around on your own?, would your parents allow you to drive around on your own ?

the law is there for a reason !!

its unlikely you will get caught but if you do you already know you will be breaking the law, you may get off with a telling off from a garda, you may get off with a telling off from a judge....you may not get caught and can sit/pass your test...but at the end of the day (its night !!) ....at the end of the day - its your decision if you wish to break the law, there are plenty of motorists who break worse laws but that doesn't mean you cant/wont get punished if caught.

unfortunately you run the risk and should pay the price - if caught.

PCPhoto

L'prof wrote: »

Take down the plates, I only used them for my test. Shhh

taking down the plates and you face even stiffer penalties when brought before the court.

tut tut tut

L'prof

PCPhoto wrote: »

L'prof wrote: »

Take down the plates, I only used them for my test. Shhh

taking down the plates and you face even stiffer penalties when brought before the court.

tut tut tut

I know. Post was tongue in cheek, I wouldn't advise it especially as the OP is already worried about breaking the rules of the road.

Her only real option is public transport, I can't see a guard letting it slide if she was stopped.

Alanstrainor

L'prof wrote: »

Take down the plates, I only used them for my test. Shhh

Warning given. Encouraging other users to act illegally is against the forum charter.

As said, doing so will only add to your worries.

Jerri Jordan,

You risk a fine of up to 1000, and a court appearance. And i'm sorry but it doesn't matter a damn if you think you are a good/safe driver. There is only one thing that will prove that, and that is a test. Seven lessons really isn't all that much.
I know your circumstances might be tough, with a young child, but that doesn't change the facts. By the sounds of it, it is a short journey, so i'd be walking if possible. The only other solution is finding someone to accompany you in your car on the way to work, who has held their full unrestricted B license for at least 2 years.

L'prof

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Warning given. Encouraging other users to act illegally is against the forum charter.

Sorry, only thought to check the charter after I posted. I should know better at this stage.

Mr. Presentable

OP, what would you do if the car broke and was off the road for a week?

That's what you should do!

Jerri Jordan

walking isint an option , i live in the country and alot of the roads on the way have no footpath and would be impossible. plus I leave at 7.30 am and no way a 2 year old could sustain the Irish weather.
I just rang my local Gardai station there now as Im really worried and they said they had to advise me that I should have a fully licenced driver with me but its unlikely that they would fine any mother with a baby trying to get to work! Cant belive they said that , has anyone else been stopped and not fined? still nervous but needs must, hopefully my test date arrives soon. i defo wont take down L plates.
Also add im in unusal circumstances in that i moved to country from Dublin. so no family or friends here at the moment to get in the car with me. if the car broke down tomor i would get a replacement car!

elbee

If you call the test centre and tell them you're available for a cancellation test you should get one very quickly. It usually only takes a week or two in Dublin.

Do that, sit the test, pass it and then your worries are over. If you're as good as you think you are, that's the best thing to do.

ardmacha

There is a rational case for increased fines for motoring offences where people are carrying children in the car, as such drivers are not only responsible for themselves. Certainly, I would hope that the Gardai would not "go easy" on such people.

DriversEd

i'm sorry to say Jerri, but i agree with the sterner of the opinions levelled here. but just another way of looking at this. you've got a lot of advice on the law and whether you should do this or not for those reasons. but at your stage in learning/driving career, you shouldn't be taking responsibility of transporting your child any distance reagrdless of the law's. just look at it like this. if you were to look back at this in 5 years, after 'bad' consequences of any kind. what would you do if you had the chance to make the choice again??
short term gain pretty much always leads to bad decisions/risk-taking.

and justifying here won't make you feel any better after a summons or accident!

hope you learning goes weel, and quickly for you!

Faith+1

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

walking isint an option , i live in the country and alot of the roads on the way have no footpath and would be impossible. plus I leave at 7.30 am and no way a 2 year old could sustain the Irish weather.
I just rang my local Gardai station there now as Im really worried and they said they had to advise me that I should have a fully licenced driver with me but its unlikely that they would fine any mother with a baby trying to get to work! Cant belive they said that , has anyone else been stopped and not fined? still nervous but needs must, hopefully my test date arrives soon. i defo wont take down L plates.
Also add im in unusal circumstances in that i moved to country from Dublin. so no family or friends here at the moment to get in the car with me. if the car broke down tomor i would get a replacement car!

It really is typical of this Country, what's the point of having traffic laws when the people responsible for enforcing it are telling you that you can break it.:rolleyes:

ladypip

Its not impossible to be convicted for driving without a fully licensed driver with you even if you do have a child in the car. Im afraid the Garda's opinion is just that another Garda might have another one and they might be the one to pull you over.

I am telling you this from experience in fact just Friday morning a summons to court landed on my doorstep for the very same thing.

I didn't have a fully licensed driver with me, I usually would or id walk but my son was sick in play school and i thought it would be better to get him home quickly. The Garda that stopped me told me i was uninsured to drive because i didn't have a fully licensed driver accompanying me. It was the day before my birthday my son was puking in the back and he decided to go ahead and prosecute.

I think he was extremely harsh on me but that's his decision to make I was after all breaking the law.

Alanstrainor

ladypip wrote: »

The Garda that stopped me told me i was uninsured to drive because i didn't have a fully licensed driver accompanying me.

Just to correct you/the gard on this point. This is not true. Unless your policy states this as a reason for making your insurance null and void you are still covered.

This has been covered a lot on this forum. Breaking the law does not nullify insurance.

ladypip

Thats great Im actually going to ring the Garda in question and have a word, I was stopped in the right lane and pulled into a bus lane and told to get out which I did.

I received three summons together one for driving uninsured (which I wasn't I had valid insurance) Driving in a bus lane (I wasn't he pulled me into the bus lane to talk to me) And driving without a fully licensed driver which was the only thing I was guilty of.

A couple of things OP

Firstly, if I see L plates on a car I am very patient. I will keep distance and wait as long as it takes at junctions, roundabouts etc. However, if there is no adult in the passenger seat, I will assume that the L plates do not relate to the driver.
In all honesty, while you might think you are a good driver, you are putting your little daughter at risk every time you drive with her in the car. In my opinion, you shouldn't drive with young children in the car before you pass your test, whether there is an accompanying driver or not. You are still learning and your daughter trusts you with her life.

I understand it's hard. But what were you doing before you got your permit?

Jerri Jordan

Deleted User wrote: »

A couple of things OP

Firstly, if I see L plates on a car I am very patient. I will keep distance and wait as long as it takes at junctions, roundabouts etc. However, if there is no adult in the passenger seat, I will assume that the L plates do not relate to the driver.
In all honesty, while you might think you are a good driver, you are putting your little daughter at risk every time you drive with her in the car. In my opinion, you shouldn't drive with young children in the car before you pass your test, whether there is an accompanying driver or not. You are still learning and your daughter trusts you with her life.

I understand it's hard. But what were you doing before you got your permit?

Bit harsh! I have now totted up 10 lessons and I am competant. My test is on 05th dec got letter yesterday!
I cannot stop driving to work or I will loose my job and I am simply not going to loose my job and leave my child with a crap standard of living. I live in rural country area, where i moved to for work. I did this because i did not want to be depending on the state to fund me.
previously i lived in big town and I just never had any reason to drive. Now i need to which is why i started. im trying to do everything as right as I can, i am taxed insured nct and i am careful. Im not loosing my job because of the new learner driver rules. In fairness they wont last , there will be a whole generation of young people who never drive now because they cannot afford the 12 lessons. It will end up going back to the old way i would bet money on it.
anyway most people on here I bet drove unaccompanied when they were learning, before the new rules came in . I am not a boy racer, I am a working mother just trying to get to work to pay the bills. The new rules are ridiculous .

Jerri Jordan

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

I am simply not going to loose my job and leave my child with a crap standard of living.

Better than leaving her dead.

I wasn't being harsh in my first post. I said I understood it was hard.

But at the end of the day, my child's life and safety would come first on my list of priorties no matter what.

westies4ever

I really just dont get this - the amount of people driving around this country without having passed a test frightens me - its always the same - sure I'm only going 10mins or i have to be able to drive the child to minder/school - oh lessons/test are so expensive etc etc.

driving is a privilege not an automatic right.

oh i've had ten lessons and a bit of practice - this does not make an anywhere near competent driver in my book.

Jerri Jordan

Deleted User wrote: »

Better than leaving her dead.

I wasn't being harsh in my first post. I said I understood it was hard.

But at the end of the day, my child's life and safety would come first on my list of priorties no matter what.

Did you honestly never drive unaccompanied when you were a learner?
I do think your harsh ur implying im a bad mother. and every other mother in the country driving on learner permit of which there are thousands. do you want us all to quit our jobs? do you want to pay our dole?
My child will not end up dead and i take great offence with your over the top underhand pc gone mad comment

Jerri Jordan

westies4ever wrote: »

I really just dont get this - the amount of people driving around this country without having passed a test frightens me - its always the same - sure I'm only going 10mins or i have to be able to drive the child to minder/school - oh lessons/test are so expensive etc etc.

driving is a privilege not an automatic right.

oh i've had ten lessons and a bit of practice - this does not make an anywhere near competent driver in my book.

again how did you learn to drive? did you have allocated 12 lessons? and did you never drive unaccompanied?

Mr_Maestro

For curiosity sake, when did you get your provisional license ?

westies4ever

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

again how did you learn to drive? did you have allocated 12 lessons? and did you never drive unaccompanied?

i worked part time and saved up for lessons - i had one a week for 6 months. i NEVER drove unaccompanied until I passed my test.

Jerri Jordan

Mr_Maestro wrote: »

For curiosity sake, when did you get your provisional license ?

Got in July and saved up for my tax and insurance and lessons. had 4 lessons initially and a good bit of driving accompanied with my husband. however he got put onto nights so he couldnt be in the car anymore with me. It happened very suddenly the shift change. so since then I have applied for test and i have had a further 10 lessons and i practice at weekend with my husband too. im not trying to be a cow here. Im just in a tough situation as i have no family or friends and im 4 hours from my hometown. so i have no one literally to sit in the car for the work during. and theres no public transport here. I am not looking for anyone to say , your right! i just think that the new rules are not sustainable. people will ened up never driving. a better system would be to introduce driving in the leaving cert year for all i think

paulmclaughlin

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

Im not loosing my job because of the new learner driver rules. In fairness they wont last , there will be a whole generation of young people who never drive now because they cannot afford the 12 lessons. It will end up going back to the old way i would bet money on it.
anyway most people on here I bet drove unaccompanied when they were learning, before the new rules came in .

Yes they will last, they're a good idea. Driving unaccompanied was always illegal, the new rules didn't change that.

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

I do think your harsh ur implying im a bad mother. and every other mother in the country driving on learner permit of which there are thousands. do you want us all to quit our jobs? do you want to pay our dole?

I'm sure most either have a full licence or an accompanying driver.

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

again how did you learn to drive? did you have allocated 12 lessons? and did you never drive unaccompanied?

I did more than 12 lessons, and that's before they were mandatory.

Jerri Jordan

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

Did you honestly never drive unaccompanied when you were a learner?
I do think your harsh ur implying im a bad mother. and every other mother in the country driving on learner permit of which there are thousands. do you want us all to quit our jobs? do you want to pay our dole?
My child will not end up dead and i take great offence with your over the top underhand pc gone mad comment

Nope, I never drove unaccompanied. I only ever had a first provisional so it was illegal. I didn't imply you're a bad mother. Just that you're making bad decisions.

PC gone mad? How is this being Politically Correct? Do you even know what Politically Correct means?

Jerri Jordan

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

Yes they will last, they're a good idea. Driving unaccompanied was always illegal, the new rules didn't change that.



I'm sure most either have a full licence or an accompanying driver.



I did more than 12 lessons, and that's before they were mandatory.

hand on heart did you ever drive unaccompanied? be honest

and your wrong there are estimated 200,000 drivers in ireland not displaying l plates and driving unaccompanied

Jerri Jordan

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope, I never drove unaccompanied. I only ever had a first provisional so it was illegal. I didn't imply you're a bad mother. Just that you're making bad decisions.

PC gone mad? How is this being Politically Correct? Do you even know what Politically Correct means?

i meant i think your way too over the top implying im going to kill my daughter. if you enjoy making fun of people , if thats your thing go ahead.

Jerri Jordan

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

i meant i think your way too over the top implying im going to kill my daughter. if you enjoy making fun of people , if thats your thing go ahead.

Making fun? you accuse me of being something, of course I'm going to respond. Just as you did when you felt I was accusing you of being a bad mother, which I wasn't.

Anyway, you obviously don't give a damn that you are putting your daughter and other road users at risk and breaking the law, you're only concern is being fined. And is answer to that, yes, you can be fined, whether the garda on duty does fine you, well that will be completely up to him.

Slattsy

I always assumed that if you needed the car for work and were on a provisional you were 'ok' to drive the car??
I drove alone with my L plates up and was pulled over for speeding. The only thing the cop asked me regarding driving on my own was that if I needed it for work, to which I replied yes, and nothing more was said.

I'm my opinion OP you'll be fine to keep doing what you're doing as it would only be a right prick of a cop that would go any further than giving you a wee warning.

Onthe3rdDay

Alanstrainor wrote: »

You risk a fine of up to 1000, and a court appearance. And i'm sorry but it doesn't matter a damn if you think you are a good/safe driver. There is only one thing that will prove that, and that is a test. Seven lessons really isn't all that much.

I agree that everyone should obey the rules of the road. However, the test only proves that you can pass a test! It doesn't prove that you're a safe driver. My evidence... an normal day out on Irish roads.

Slattsy

whoopsadaisydoodles wrote: »

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

i meant i think your way too over the top implying im going to kill my daughter. if you enjoy making fun of people , if thats your thing go ahead.

Anyway, you obviously don't give a damn that you are putting your daughter and other road users at risk and breaking the law, you're only concern is being fined. And is answer to that, yes, you can be fined, whether the garda on duty does fine you, well that will be completely up to him.

How so???
Yes it may be illegal to drive on her own, you're spot on with the breaking the law bit, but does that make her a worse driver than you, or I?? No it doesn't. There is no "risk" to other road users.

Jerri Jordan

I wonder if there would be figures about accidents : how many were caused by provisional drivers, drunk drivers, elderly drivers, young drivers, etc ...
I guarantee if you look in my age bracket female between ages 25-35 on learner permit driving unaccompanied, that their are very little accidents caused
How many fully licencesd drivers out there still cannot get around a roundabout properly. Its shocking how many people simply dont indicate.
What about elderly drivers who are the worst on the road in my opinion. Or the thousands who got free licence's and never had any lessons...my mother and father in law included

tittle mouse

I think people are being harsh on the OP. 5 years ago it was legal to drive on a 2nd provisional licence without a full licenced driver and 1000s of people did!!!

I personally know no1 who haas been brought to court for driving on a provisional licence BUT im sure there out there i just dont know any.

And really the driving test here does not determine if your a good driver!! Everyone knows someone who has there full licence who are useless drivers!!!(found their licence in a lucky bag!!:))

Slattsy

Slattsy wrote: »

How so???
Yes it may be illegal to drive on her own, you're spot on with the breaking the law bit, but does that make her a worse driver than you, or I?? No it doesn't. There is no "risk" to other road users.

In my opinion, an inexperienced driver driving on country roads with children in the car (i.e. distractions) is a risk. I'm not saying there aren't other risks on the road, there are many of course and I have been the victim to them.

I didn't mean to come across harsh to the OP and I apologise if I upset you in any way. But it's a subject I feel quite strongly about.

tittle mouse

Deleted User wrote: »

In my opinion, an inexperienced driver driving on country roads with children in the car (i.e. distractions) is a risk. I'm not saying there aren't other risks on the road, there are many of course and I have been the victim to them.

I didn't mean to come across harsh to the OP and I apologise if I upset you in any way. But it's a subject I feel quite strongly about.

But if she say passes her test in the morning she'll suddenly become an expirienced driver?

Theres only one way to get experience and thats to drive!!

hollypink

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

In fairness they wont last , there will be a whole generation of young people who never drive now because they cannot afford the 12 lessons. It will end up going back to the old way i would bet money on it.
anyway most people on here I bet drove unaccompanied when they were learning, before the new rules came in . I am not a boy racer, I am a working mother just trying to get to work to pay the bills. The new rules are ridiculous .

Whether you are a boy racer or a working mother is completely irrelevant. Whether you think you are a competent driver is also irrelevant. What on earth is unreasonable about having to do some level of training and be assessed before being allowed to drive a car unaccompanied? Do you really see no safety concern there at all? It's the norm in lots of other countries. It was our previous rules that were ridiculous.

As to the cost of lessons, running a car is an expensive business; motor tax, insurance, servicing, NCT, petrol. If someone can't afford lessons, how are they going to afford to run a car?

Jerri Jordan

Deleted User wrote: »

In my opinion, an inexperienced driver driving on country roads with children in the car (i.e. distractions) is a risk. I'm not saying there aren't other risks on the road, there are many of course and I have been the victim to them.

I didn't mean to come across harsh to the OP and I apologise if I upset you in any way. But it's a subject I feel quite strongly about.

I apologise too. I just got upset that any one would assume i get in the car each morning and decide to toy with my childs life. I dont she is everything to me. I just have to go to work.
doing the test will make no difference to my observation and attention when my child is in the car. as she wont be there when i do my test. I never get distracted by her anyway im very very aware of switching onto the drive. i come prepared with her books crayons and dvd player so she is kept entertained while i drive.

tittle mouse

tittle mouse wrote: »

But if she say passes her test in the morning she'll suddenly become an expirienced driver?

She will have had a qualified person test her on her standard of driving and agree that she is a competent driver. I don't agree it's perfect. But it's the only system we have.

Theres only one way to get experience and thats to drive!!

Yes, with an instructor.

Jerri, best of luck with your test.

Jerri Jordan

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

I apologise too. I just got upset that any one would assume i get in the car each morning and decide to toy with my childs life. I dont she is everything to me.

I didn't mean to imply that you did. Apologies again, I was totally in the wrong.

Jerri Jordan

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't mean to imply that you did. Apologies again, I was totally in the wrong.

oh no i was too. i over reacted. mother hormones! no apology needed really. i see ur point.

Mr_Maestro

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

Got in July and saved up for my tax and insurance and lessons. had 4 lessons initially and a good bit of driving accompanied with my husband. however he got put onto nights so he couldnt be in the car anymore with me. It happened very suddenly the shift change. so since then I have applied for test and i have had a further 10 lessons and i practice at weekend with my husband too. im not trying to be a cow here. Im just in a tough situation as i have no family or friends and im 4 hours from my hometown. so i have no one literally to sit in the car for the work during. and theres no public transport here. I am not looking for anyone to say , your right! i just think that the new rules are not sustainable. people will ened up never driving. a better system would be to introduce driving in the leaving cert year for all i think

I'm not judging, I'm in the same boat. Got the provisonal in June and I am at the 11th lesson and it hasn't been cheap getting the lessons done.
According to my ADI, not naming names, the system will go through another change over the next few months again. Nothing major but the current system will be revised. Some of the lessons are just the same or just common sense yet they require a full hour of "advanced" teaching.

I appreciate the new system, as there are some incredibly dangerous drivers on the roads, this will hopefully curtail people that cant drive getting a license. The new system is just unrefined at the moment.

Faith+1

tittle mouse wrote: »

And really the driving test here does not determine if your a good driver!! Everyone knows someone who has there full licence who are useless drivers!!!(found their licence in a lucky bag!!:))

That maybe true but at least those people bothered their ass to apply and pass the test all within the confines of the law. It's just a shame all these "Excellent" LP drivers would do likewise.

matt70iu

I do understand the position OP is in. When the law regarding the 2nd provisional license was introduced in 2008, I was one of those affected.

I was stopped by the guards a couple of weeks later, and they let me go.

I drove to and from work everyday and had to continue to do that. I did sit and pass my test a few weeks after that. I would have less sympathy if OP was not trying to get her full license.

It will and should become unacceptable in the eyes of the general public to drive alone while on a learner permit. At the moment, as a nation, we are in a transition stage when it comes to road traffic laws. We're coming from a position of little and very relaxed enforcement, so this will take time.

Massive improvements have been made, but we have a long way to go.

Keep up the lessons OP and get your test, then, your heart won't be racing when you come up to a checkpoint. It's such a relief once you have that full license!

Best of luck!

thesimpsons

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

Did you honestly never drive unaccompanied when you were a learner?

never ever drove unaccompanied before got full licence. Got my licence in Australia, passed first time and its just something no one does over there. changed licence to here, passed first time too. I was the accompanying driver for teen learner this past year, she never drove unaccompanied, passed test first go on first permit. Lots of people do it this way - just cos you are breaking the law, don't mistrust everyone else.

MascotDec85

Mr_Maestro wrote: »

For curiosity sake, when did you get your provisional license ?

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

Got in July and saved up for my tax and insurance and lessons. had 4 lessons initially and a good bit of driving accompanied with my husband. however he got put onto nights so he couldnt be in the car anymore with me. It happened very suddenly the shift change. so since then I have applied for test and i have had a further 10 lessons and i practice at weekend with my husband too. im not trying to be a cow here. Im just in a tough situation as i have no family or friends and im 4 hours from my hometown. so i have no one literally to sit in the car for the work during. and theres no public transport here. I am not looking for anyone to say , your right! i just think that the new rules are not sustainable. people will ened up never driving. a better system would be to introduce driving in the leaving cert year for all i think

Did I read that you have your test on 6th December?

If you are doing EDT i.e. you got your 1st learner permit in July you CANNOT sit your driving test til January i.e. 6 months after you got your learner permit.

I hear test dates have been given out before pupils have completed the 12 lessons which is not supposed to happen and the RSA are behind on the admin of the EDT sheets.

I'd be double checking this if I were you and quickly!

Jerri Jordan

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Did I read that you have your test on 6th December?

If you are doing EDT i.e. you got your 1st learner permit in July you CANNOT sit your driving test til January i.e. 6 months after you got your learner permit.

I hear test dates have been given out before pupils have completed the 12 lessons which is not supposed to happen and the RSA are behind on the admin of the EDT sheets.

I'd be double checking this if I were you and quickly!

I got the test date in Dec cos Work wrote me a letter to explain the situation. They never even mentioned that i shouldnt have got the test! thats strange I have my referral letter and everything.

Alanstrainor

Jerri Jordan wrote: »

I got the test date in Dec cos Work wrote me a letter to explain the situation. They never even mentioned that i shouldnt have got the test! thats strange I have my referral letter and everything.

You need to get this sorted. It does not matter if you sent a letter from work. The 6 month rule is a statutory. It cannot be shortened.