Replacing roundabouts with flashing amber interchanges (Togher Road - Tramore Road J)

AugustusMinimus

Can someone explain the reasoning to me on this one.

Case in point is the interchange outside of St Finbarr's GAA Ground in Cork City. Its the interchange between the Togher Road and the Tramore Road.

For years this has been a roundabout. It was fine. Contrary to belief, most Irish motorists do understand how roundabouts work, even if they don't signal properly when using them.

However, about 2 years ago, the roundabout was removed and replaced with what I assumed would be a fully signalised junction. Yet, I was wrong. All lights in all directions are permanently on flashing amber.

For the last 2 years, it has essentially been a 4 way stop. What possible justification did Cork City Council have to create a 4 way stop in the middle of a city and in a country where a 4 way stop is basically unheard of ?

Why remove a roundabout which is well understood and replace it with a wholly inappropriate junction.

I now hate using this junction. No one seems to know what is going on and "give way to the right" is completely being ignored.

The mad thing is that €25k prob didn't cover the cost of works done there.

gooch2k9

Sounds like a recipe for disaster!

Padraig Mor

Because the ****ed it up big style - and that is now official! The junction was fully signalised for about two weeks but it caused such traffic mayhem they had to set them on flashing orange, and they have remained like this for the last three years. Luckily, the council troglodytes who signed off on this didn't lose their job - heaven forbid we should have accountability! Reports in the paper last week indicate that the council have now acknowledged their **** up and intend replacing the junction with.............a roundabout! Yip, just like the one they removed! Cost will be €200k IIRC. It's good to know our civic officers are so thoroughly competent eh?

AugustusMinimus

€200k :eek:

Dont the lights heading from East to West (opposite side of School) flash red instead of amber?

AugustusMinimus

Wow. Didn't realise this issue was so topical at the moment

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/taxpayers-face-230k-traffic-lights-fiasco-bill-171930.html

EPM

That junction can be fairly hairy. I've seen people fly through it at full tilt assuming everyone else will get out of their way. Usually has broken glass scattered about the place. €200k for a roundabout?!? A painted one properly signposted would probably suffice!

Padraig Mor

So over €230k overall for this sorry mess - and that doesn't include many thousands in consultants' fees referred to in another report.

And the funniest thing? There was no traffic problems with the original roundabout!

MonaghanPenguin

The rest of your post is fair enough. But

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Contrary to belief, most Irish motorists do understand how roundabouts work, even if they don't signal properly when using them.

eh? So your point is that Irish people know how roundabouts work but aren't arsed using them right?

AugustusMinimus

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

The rest of your post is fair enough. But



eh? So your point is that Irish people know how roundabouts work but aren't arsed using them right?

I was talking about the rules pertaining to traffic flow only.

This is in my mind makes a roundabout inherently safer than a 4 way stop in this country considering the vasty majority of Irish drivers will never encounter one of these in a month of sundays.

MonaghanPenguin

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I was talking about the rules pertaining to traffic flow only.

This is in my mind makes a roundabout inherently safer than a 4 way stop in this country considering the vasty majority of Irish drivers will never encounter one of these in a month of sundays.

Signalling is a measure related to traffic flow. Without proper signalling it reduces the effectiveness of a roundabout as people become a lot more hesitant to move onto the roundabout as they wait to see what move someone who isn't signalling is about to make.

That said, I agree with you that a 4 way stop system is likely to be a disaster. The thing is, I can see why they would try an experiment to make the efficiency of a junction better when Irish people are actually so bad on roundabouts. The issue here is that the experiment seems to have been a little misguided in its approach, not its aims.

AugustusMinimus

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

Signalling is a measure related to traffic flow. Without proper signalling it reduces the effectiveness of a roundabout as people become a lot more hesitant to move onto the roundabout as they wait to see what move someone who isn't signalling is about to make.

That said, I agree with you that a 4 way stop system is likely to be a disaster. The thing is, I can see why they would try an experiment to make the efficiency of a junction better when Irish people are actually so bad on roundabouts. The issue here is that the experiment seems to have been a little misguided in its approach, not its aims.

The usual view is that a roundabout usually provides a more efficient junction than a signalised one up to the point where traffic on one given arm must start to queue.

I would argue that it is still more efficient that a signalised junction as long as the longest traffic queue on a given arm is shorter than the longest traffic queue on a given arm on a signalised junction.

A traffic survey should easily have identified a signalised junction as being wrong in this instance and would have saved the tax payer a lot of cash.

Jimmy Bottlehead

The roundabout after you come off the M50 southbound at the Stillorgan exit has just gone from free-flow to lights. Hope it doesn't balls things up. Seems ok the last two mornings, but with school holidays this week, it's hard to tell.

Anti-skid surfaces will be applied to the roundabout and the road surface coming from the Doughcloyne approach road.

..............

Not a bad idea in fairness.
As bad as it is once caution is exercised it's an easy enough junction to navigate, visibility is on your side anyway.

Ardennes1944

what pisses me off is at the tramore rd roundabout by the garda station. take the turn off for the park and ride and theres a huge pothole on the corner. it is replaced WEEKLY! but always gets ripped up again in a few days. ive never seen something repaired so much. its full of water today so someones gonna get caught!

LK_Dave

Padraig Mor wrote: »

So over €230k overall for this sorry mess - and that doesn't include many thousands in consultants' fees referred to in another report.

And the funniest thing? There was no traffic problems with the original roundabout!

Classic.

I hope you submitted a hefty invoice for your assessment.:rolleyes:

Ardennes1944

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

what pisses me off is at the tramore rd roundabout by the garda station. ................

Casey's Cross
That pothole is a joke, was there 15 years ago, used to cycle to work to there.

Padraig Mor

LK_Dave wrote: »

Classic.

I hope you submitted a hefty invoice for your assessment.:rolleyes:

????

You mean the roundabout I used daily with no real traffic problems until they put in the traffic lights leading to instant gridlock? :rolleyes: And they can have that assessment for nothing.

EPM

LK_Dave wrote: »

Classic.

I hope you submitted a hefty invoice for your assessment.:rolleyes:

Either post constructively or don't post at all.

Redisle

Yeah that junction is a pain. The main Togher - Lough portion has right of way though. The lights flash orange on this part of the road and flash red coming from Tramore Road. There is also a (admittedly small) STOP sign mounted to one of the poles coming from Tramore Road.

Tbh they would have been better off putting those lights on the roundabout outside Centra and only operate them in the morning. Coming down the hill up to Sarsfield Road is a nightmare in the mornings as Leghanamore has priority with tons of parents dropping kids to school. Can easily take 20mins in the morning just to get down that one road between Sarsfield Road and Centra!

Ardennes1944

RoverJames wrote: »

Casey's Cross
That pothole is a joke, was there 15 years ago, used to cycle to work to there.

Is that what its shaggin called!? I go through that roundabout nearly every day and i never knew. Thanks for that

Ardennes1944

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

Is that what its shaggin called!? I go through that roundabout nearly every day and i never knew. Thanks for that

Yep, my first part time job was in the building on the corner next to the Garda station, it used to be a motor factors years ago (10+ years ago it closed).

AugustusMinimus

Redisle wrote: »

Yeah that junction is a pain. The main Togher - Lough portion has right of way though. The lights flash orange on this part of the road and flash red coming from Tramore Road. There is also a (admittedly small) STOP sign mounted to one of the poles coming from Tramore Road.

Unless you know that the light on the Tramore road is flashing red, then you don't have a clue you have the right of way with the flashing amber on the Togher Road.

msg11

Did someone just post 200K for a roundabout ?

You could build a house for that and have change left over to build your own roundabout in your driveway.

Absolutely amazing.