Irish Rail Smart Card - Overcharged?

devnull

Yesterday as I was in a rush and running late, and as I was going to start a new job and use the train occasionally, I tried the Smart Card system out.

I topped up by 10 euro. Tagged on at Drumcondra as I was close to there the previous night. changed at Connolly and then got the Dart heading south for a couple of stops and tagged off. In the Evening I used the DART for a couple of stops northbound, tagged on at this stop and tagged off at Connolly.

Result? I've been charged correctly for the second journey but the first journey cost me around FIVE EURO. Even though according to the fare calculator on the Irish Rail site lists I think either 2.10 or 2.40 for the stop. I looked at my transactions this morning and it clearly has the correct stations on, so why am I being charged so much?

Is there is something I am missing which I must do when completing a journey that involves a change of trains from the Maynooth line to the DART? Surely I don't have to go all the way out to the entrance of Connolly Station tag out, and tag back in again and walk right back to the platform where I got off my inital train? I kind of discounted this because the two fares for two seperate journeys are higher than the listed smartcard fare between the two stations, which indicates you can do a smart card journey without tagging out at Connolly.

LXFlyer

Why not just contact the smartcard team directly?

Full details are here.

Lapin

In fairness, I'm glad the OP raised this here.

As a frequent visitor to Dublin, I've often thought about getting myself a smart card.

Now I'm having second thoughts.

LXFlyer

Lapin wrote: »

In fairness, I'm glad the OP raised this here.

As a frequent visitor to Dublin, I've often thought about getting myself a smart card.

Now I'm having second thoughts.

I'm not querying the OP raising it here - but they will get a direct answer from contacting the people responsible directly. From what I've seen on the RUI site they are very pro-active.

Then the OP can post the results here.

bk

Lapin wrote: »

As a frequent visitor to Dublin, I've often thought about getting myself a smart card.

Now I'm having second thoughts.

IME the Dart smartcard works very well and is well worth it. Saves you money and time/change buying tickets.

Hopefully Leap Card will launch soon, making it even more useful for visitors like you (can use it on all public transport across Dublin and rolled out nationally eventually).

The OP raises a very interesting question, but it is best answered by the experts, I look forward to hearing their response.

AlekSmart

AAaah progress...those familiar with discusion boards and other fora in relation to London and its public transport will be familiar withe the ever present amount of posts similar to devnull's....All of these systems,particularly where different "Products" are utilized appear to throw up insurmountable problems for e-technology systems.

Let the Games begin !!!!!

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

Why not just contact the smartcard team directly?

Full details are here.

I actually spoke to the staff at the ticket office when I realized something was wrong last night, who told me I should go and speak to Connolly, I didn't actually have time to do so last night, as I had to dash off, but I did the same journey today, intentionally in the morning and evening to see if the same thing happened, and it worked fine today. I did try and speak to someone in Connolly about the overcharging and the attitude was sorry, we sell the tickets but we offer no support on them and they told me to call a line between 9am and 5pm, which is not of much use when people use the trains before 9am and after 5pm primarily, like I did last two days. I will however submit a email.

bk wrote: »

The OP raises a very interesting question, but it is best answered by the experts, I look forward to hearing their response.

The specifics of this case are the following:
- I bought a smartcard at Drumcondra for €5 and pre loaded with €10 credit. as I was staying right near the station the night before
- Tagged in at Drumcondra, got out at Connolly, switched platforms for the DART to meet a friend, who I was traveling to Clontarf Road with.
- Tagged out at Clontarf Road, (Didn't check how much it charged me)
- In evening got on train from Clontarf to Connolly. Checked balance on ticket machine and it was 3.60.

According to Irishrail.ie the smart card fare was 2.10 for the t rip between Drumcondra and 1.40 for the evening trip between Connolly and Clontarf Road. 10.00 - 3.50 = 6.50, although my account showed 3.60 in euro, which makes me think where did the other 2.90 go?

According to my history on the smart card it has for yesterday
Tag on at Drumcondra in morning
Tag off at Clontarf a short while later
Tag on at Clontarf in evening
Tag off at Connolly a short while later.

The amusing thing is I did exactly the same thing today just out of curiosity and actually I was charged the correct amount which shows there was something very much amiss.

The only conclusion I can come to is that 2.90 is the difference between the 1.40 fare and the maximum 4.30 fare which leads me to believe for some reason when I tagged out at Connolly last night, it did not credit me back the 2.90 euro, as from examining the way the smart card system works, it seems to always debit 4.30 when you tag in, and then credit back the difference between the maximum fare and your fare when you tag out.

Victor

As above, talk to the Smartcard team. Any problems, let me know.

Smartcards are useful for occassional trips. If you are travelling every day, consider getting a weekly/monthl/annual ticket. ID may be required.

http://www.irishrail.ie/your_ticket/fares_enquiries.aspFrom: Drumcondra To: Clontarf Road

Fare Category D
Smart Card Single €2.10
Adult Single €2.40
Adult Day Return €4.40
Adult 7 Day Rolling Rail €19.90
Adult 3 Day Rolling Rail €11.80
Child Single €1.25
Child Day €2.15
Schoolchild Single* €0.47
Scholar Single €1.19

Note that Drumcondra-Clontarf Road isn't a very long distance walking / cycling. http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Drumcondra,+Droim+Conrach,+Dublin&daddr=Clontarf+Rd&hl=en&sll=53.361872,-6.239376&sspn=0.024125,0.077162&geocode=FRFBLgMdIoGg_ylTdhZLew5nSDFbkk0NhJ-VYg%3BFahELgMdkAGh_w&vpsrc=0&dirflg=w&mra=ltm&t=m&z=15

devnull

I dropped them a mail yesterday.

I'm most likely going to get a monthly ticket when my situation and commute has become more certain, but need to get the photo ID done - I'm not normally in Drumcondra!

I realize that the walk is only about half an hour or so, but on the first day in question, I was loaded up with stuff I was carrying, and besides I needed to meet someone in Connolly anyway. I just repeated the same journey yesterday deliberately to see if I could reproduce the problem.

Some other bug though, on Tuesday I had in my history
Tag on
Tag Off
Tag On
Tag off

Yesterday I had

Assumed Tag Off
Tag On (Same time as assumed Tag Off)
Tag Off
Tag On
Tag Off

Not sure where the assumed Tag off comes from?

Victor

The change is down to the system reconciling between all the ticket gates at the end of the day.

Thats a fairly obvious error and they should be able to reverse it.

Just a question -you didn't back track at the time or anthing?

billyhead

Can you get a refund on the deposit you pay for the smart card if you have no intention of using it again.

Victor

billyhead wrote: »

Can you get a refund on the deposit you pay for the smart card if you have no intention of using it again.

I don't think so. It's not quite a deposit, it is an amount of money you can go overdrawn. The next time the card is use, just let it go overdrawn. Or give it to someone you know.

ixoy

On a related note about the machines at Connolly:

When I get a train from Mullingar-Connolly I then need to go out to Clontarf Road. As I use a smart card for this portion of the journey, I then need to go outside the gates and back in just to tag on.
.. Could they not put a smart card reader inside as well for those who are commuting from further afield, such as Belfast, Sligo, etc?

Victor

I understand there is one on platform 5.

ixoy

Victor wrote: »

I understand there is one on platform 5.

Thanks - I'll take a look.

goingnowhere

devnull wrote: »

I dropped them a mail yesterday.

I'm most likely going to get a monthly ticket when my situation and commute has become more certain, but need to get the photo ID done - I'm not normally in Drumcondra!

I realize that the walk is only about half an hour or so, but on the first day in question, I was loaded up with stuff I was carrying, and besides I needed to meet someone in Connolly anyway. I just repeated the same journey yesterday deliberately to see if I could reproduce the problem.

Some other bug though, on Tuesday I had in my history
Tag on
Tag Off
Tag On
Tag off

Yesterday I had

Assumed Tag Off
Tag On (Same time as assumed Tag Off)
Tag Off
Tag On
Tag Off

Not sure where the assumed Tag off comes from?

Ignore the website what did the ticket vending machine say thats the definitive and always up to date list. Website as victor says the back office does a reconcile each night.

An assumed tag off is where you go through the entry side of a turnstile and it finds that smartcard was previously tagged on (i.e you didn't tag off the previous day). The website will give the station for each event

DvB

What happens in a situation where the card readers arent working at a particular station?

I went to tag on this morning @ Clonsilla but was told they werent working & to instead go through the gate so i wouldnt actually be tagging on (fare evasion into the bargain surely) now considering when you reach your destination you'd need to tag off, what happens then seeing as you actually havent tagged on in the first place? Rather than take the risk i purchased a single journey ticket instead.

But If the readers are regularly faulty it could be a real problem when coming home in the evening as the station is unattended by staff at that time, what will happen if i tag on @ grand canal dock but am unable to tag off at an unattended station in the evening?

LXFlyer

DvB wrote: »

What happens in a situation where the card readers arent working at a particular station?

I went to tag on this morning @ Clonsilla but was told they werent working & to instead go through the gate so i wouldnt actually be tagging on (fare evasion into the bargain surely) now considering when you reach your destination you'd need to tag off, what happens then seeing as you actually havent tagged on in the first place? Rather than take the risk i purchased a single journey ticket instead.

But If the readers are regularly faulty it could be a real problem when coming home in the evening as the station is unattended by staff at that time, what will happen if i tag on @ grand canal dock but am unable to tag off at an unattended station in the evening?

Contact the office at the details above?