Stupid question about Bj Penn?

pudzey101

Hi lads,

1st time posting here, recently started watching UFC...(i know) lol

Seen a lot of Bj Penns fights, and 90% of the time he manages to cut his opponents :eek:

anyone know what his trick is or is he just very skilled?.. taught to myself he's gloves where different fighters with the amount of damage he does but that's nonsense lol

david

MrsStuffings

pudzey101 wrote: »

Hi lads,


anyone know what his trick is or is he just very skilled?.. taught to myself he's gloves where different fighters with the amount of damage he does

oh fuck me

mate this is a piss poor attempt at a troll, please take your time wasting to the boxing forum or the tennis forum, they might tolerate this stupidity over there.

post reported also.
mods please lock this and stop this bull before it starts gathering moss

pudzey101

MrsStuffings wrote: »

oh fuck me

mate this is a piss poor attempt at a troll, please take your time wasting to the boxing forum or the tennis forum, they might tolerate this stupidity over there.

post reported also.
mods please lock this and stop this bull before it starts gathering moss

whaatttt im being dead serious?? i know i was joking about the gloves obv there checked in rules & regulations

just wanted to know for such a small guy how he causes that much damage?

bear in mind i know nothing about ufc, only started watching it last week

pudzey101

MrsStuffings wrote: »

post reported also

reported also... compare your total posts and stars towards mine

came here for info not for abuse

cowzerp

Msstuffings banned.

Trolling at its worst.

Niall0

Bj Penn is an awesome fighter, thats why people usually start bleeding all over the place when they fight him. Check out the diego sanchez fight one of the most awesome head kicks ever leads to a huge gash on diegos head.

pudzey101

cowzerp wrote: »

Msstuffings banned.

Trolling at its worst.

Thanks mate i honestly came here for info i really enjoy him watching him fight!!:) brilliant skill, got serious skills on the ground!!

pudzey101

Niall0 wrote: »

Bj Penn is an awesome fighter, thats why people usually start bleeding all over the place when they fight him. Check out the diego sanchez fight one of the most awesome head kicks ever leads to a huge gash on diegos head.

il check that out!!:) im just watching the Diaz fight now both are split lol

for a guy thats 5"9 he packs on hell of a punch :eek:

cowzerp

Pudsey he hits very hard for his weight and accurate, that's what I put it down too, good boxing.

pudzey101

cowzerp wrote: »

Pudsey he hits very hard for his weight and accurate, that's what I put it down too, good boxing.

ya Ive noticed he lands nearly all of his punches!

another stupid question here:

Is there any well known Irish fighter in UFC?

Saw forrest griffin coming out and immediately taught he was Irish with his into music lol

the_doctor199

pudzey101 wrote: »

Is there any well known Irish fighter in UFC?

There's no Irish fighter in the UFC right now, iirc the last was Tom Egan who fought at 93 in Dublin. (Although, Marcus Davis claims to be part Irish.)

pudzey101

the_doctor199 wrote: »

There's no Irish fighter in the UFC right now, iirc the last was Tom Egan who fought at 93 in Dublin. (Although, Marcus Davis claims to be part Irish.)

tank jesus woudve taught there'd be more irish in it

Just seen a few vids of A.Silva and..... :eek: wow, will he be beet anytime soon lol

3hn2givr7mx1sc

pudzey101 wrote: »

tank jesus woudve taught there'd be more irish in it

Just seen a few vids of A.Silva and..... :eek: wow, will he be beet anytime soon lol

Jon Jones is another case of "Who the fúck's gonna beat him?" and he's twelve years younger than Silva.

pudzey101

baz2009 wrote: »

Jon Jones is another case of "Who the fúck's gonna beat him?" and he's twelve years younger than Silva.

Damn :eek: must check him out !! fighters like that i like untill i saw Diaz v Penn tonight lol

Mellor

As mentioned Penn is simply a excellant boxer.
diaz got the bett of him due to work capacity, to out punch BJ like that he actually had to set a record for strikes thrown.
Edgar also out punched him, but that was due to speed, and as we've now seen Edgar has a great ability to recover.

pudzey101

Only posted this a week ago, is it true BJ retired after loosing to Diaz??? or is wiki lying to me lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj_penn

Read last line just above the "contents"

"He retired after losing to Nick Diaz at UFC 137 in Las Vegas, Nevada."

Mellor

pudzey101 wrote: »

Only posted this a week ago, is it true BJ retired after loosing to Diaz??? or is wiki lying to me lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj_penn

Read last line just above the "contents"

"He retired after losing to Nick Diaz at UFC 137 in Las Vegas, Nevada."

Did you not see the diaz fight?
He said to Joe Rogan that it was his last time in the cage. Nothings official, Dana has pointed out that he was just off a loss so who knows where his head was. BJ appears to be quite depressed after a loss.
Anyway, nothing official yt, and he has since said that he is going to take some time and see what he wants to do.
Prob about 50/50 if he'll fight again

scudzilla

BJ's a legend, his elbows are the cause of so many nasty scars on guys faces, they're just so accurate. He's also one of the best on the ground that's ever been, shame that he didn't live up to that potential in recent fights, IMO he was just a bit too lazy.

My Fav ever BJ fight, and one i was lucky enough to be at, was when he dismantled Joe Stevenson to win the LW Title in Newcastle, it was a perfect example of how he used to win.

He'd batter the crap out of ya from on top, softening you up, then choke you out, which in the case of the Stevenson fight was very difficult because the amount of Blood must have made it very slippy indeed.

I stayed in the same hotel as the fighters and seen Joe Daddy the next day, his face was like the Elephant Man's

Here's my most favourite ever MMA pic, taken from that fight, if ya look closely ya can see as BJ tightens the choke a big squirt of blood is coming from Joe's head



And as for him retiring, i doubt it, i can see him back to do a coaches stint on TUF

pudzey101

Mellor wrote: »

Did you not see the diaz fight?
He said to Joe Rogan that it was his last time in the cage. Nothings official, Dana has pointed out that he was just off a loss so who knows where his head was. BJ appears to be quite depressed after a loss.
Anyway, nothing official yt, and he has since said that he is going to take some time and see what he wants to do.
Prob about 50/50 if he'll fight again

ya i saw it , but never copped that he said it was his last fight !!! how slow am i haha shame if he does though, such a good fighter, it would be a loss, think he has plenty left to give

scudzilla

pudzey101 wrote: »

ya i saw it , but never copped that he said it was his last fight !!! how slow am i haha shame if he does though, such a good fighter, it would be a loss, think he has plenty left to give

He WAS a good (Great) fighter, but unfortunately can't live with some of the top guys today, his final 5 fights have given him a record of 1-3-1 which in no way reflects his talent. It's not like he just lost closely to Diaz/Edgar, he was totally dominated which may have caused him to announce his retirement.

What i used to find about BJ was you were always reliant on which BJ turned up for the fight, and his Cardio has always been questionable.

benki11

.??

Sid_Justice

nobody in this sport can fight above their weight class, with the exception of dan henderson maybe. I think BJ would beat 9/10 people in UFC lw top 10. He needs to stick to LW, work harder on S&C and get a coach.

scudzilla

Sid_Justice wrote: »

nobody in this sport can fight above their weight class, with the exception of dan henderson maybe. I think BJ would beat 9/10 people in UFC lw top 10. He needs to stick to LW, work harder on S&C and get a coach.

Is that why BJ lost to Lyoto on points

Granted that was a few years back and he was, how to put this, more committed back then?

Sid_Justice

No, it was a style thing. GSP could go 3 rounds with lyoto or anderson or fedor.

But would GSP win consistently and be the best in the world at 185? Probably not. People like chael sonnen and yushin okami would give him a tough time.

BJ wants to fight the best, not top 10 guys, I still think there are great fights for gsp at 155 (maynard, melendez, aoki, alvez)

scudzilla

Sid_Justice wrote: »

No, it was a style thing. GSP could go 3 rounds with lyoto or anderson or fedor.

But would GSP win consistently and be the best in the world at 185? Probably not. People like chael sonnen and yushin okami would give him a tough time.

BJ wants to fight the best, not top 10 guys, I still think there are great fights for gsp at 155 (maynard, melendez, aoki, alvez)

Would GSP be able to hit 155? There aint much spare meat on him at 170!

El Guapo!

Sid_Justice wrote: »

nobody in this sport can fight above their weight class, with the exception of dan henderson maybe. I think BJ would beat 9/10 people in UFC lw top 10. He needs to stick to LW, work harder on S&C and get a coach.

I have to disagree with this point.
I think he'd have trouble with a lot of guys at LW at the minute. The LW division is one of the best in the UFC in my opinion and its stacked with talent right now.
I think he'd struggle against a lot of guys in my opinion. Obviously he has no chance against Edgar, but I think he'd have trouble against the likes of Gilbert Melendez (not technically UFC but will be soon), Gray Maynard, Ben Henderson, Donald Cerrone, Melvin Guillard.......

In his prime, BJ would be well able for all these guys, but to be honest I don't think he can compete with the new blood in the UFC. As much as I like him as a fighter I think he's past his best at this stage and now is probably the right time for him to retire. Unless he sorts out his cardio and makes big changes I can't see him being a threat at LW any time soon.

Sid_Justice

Kenny florian would beat all those guys and BJ did a job on him.

bj is no 2 in ufc lw.

scudzilla

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Kenny florian would beat all those guys and BJ did a job on him.

bj is no 2 in ufc lw.

So much wrong with this post i dunno where to start!

KenFlo would NOT beat all these guys, and hasn't, he lost comprehensively to both BJ and Maynard

BJ's the No.2 LW in UFC?? So who's he ahead of? Edgar who battered him twice, or Diaz who mauled him last week

El Guapo!

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Kenny florian would beat all those guys and BJ did a job on him.

bj is no 2 in ufc lw.

He's nowhere near no.2 in LW. How can you honestly say that when the division is so stacked??

Sid_Justice

He's behind Edgar. Diaz is a WW silly.

El Guapo!

Sid_Justice wrote: »

He's behind Edgar. Diaz is a WW silly.

Sorry my mistake! Had my idiot head on there! Edited my post.
I still think there's a lot of the LW division that would cause him too much trouble for him to make any sort of decent impact on the division.

Niall0

Sid_Justice wrote: »

He's behind Edgar. Diaz is a WW silly.

Id say Gray Maynard is behind Edgar.

Mellor

Sid_Justice wrote: »

nobody in this sport can fight above their weight class, with the exception of dan henderson maybe. I think BJ would beat 9/10 people in UFC lw top 10. He needs to stick to LW, work harder on S&C and get a coach.

Frankie edgar obv can also.
Andeson Silva could give it a very reasonable attempt also.

MrStuffins

Normal rankings dictate a fighter must have fought in the relevant division in the previous 12 months to be ranked there. BJ hasn't fought at LW in over ayear so he wouldn't be ranked.

However, realistically, BJ Penn is definitely No.2 LW IMO.

It would be up to other fighters in the division to show that he isn't and take his place.

Before losing to Edgar his 5 Lightweight fights previous were all against top opposition (well, maybe not Pulver) and he smashed them all. These fights weren't even close. Florian, Sanchez, Joe Daddy and Sean Sherk. He was and still is the greatest LW Champion of all time!

You show me someone else in the division with a record like that and maybe they will be No.2 LW. Until then BJ Penn is No.2 behind Frankie who is without doubt the No.1!

Mellor

MrStuffins wrote: »

Before losing to Edgar his 5 Lightweight fights previous were all against top opposition (well, maybe not Pulver) and he smashed them all. These fights weren't even close. Florian, Sanchez, Joe Daddy and Sean Sherk. He was and still is the greatest LW Champion of all time!

You show me someone else in the division with a record like that and maybe they will be No.2 LW. Until then BJ Penn is No.2 behind Frankie who is without doubt the No.1!

None of those 5 are in the top 5 at the minute. It's not even close. So i don't see how they are relevant to the current top 5.

Edgar is undoubtedly the best.
Maynard did much better verses Edgar than Penn did. Both over 2 fights.

Plus you are refering to fights a long time ago. Thats not todays BJ.

MrStuffins

Mellor wrote: »

None of those 5 are in the top 5 at the minute. It's not even close. So i don't see how they are relevant to the current top 5.

Edgar is undoubtedly the best.
Maynard did much better verses Edgar than Penn did. Both over 2 fights.

Plus you are refering to fights a long time ago. Thats not todays BJ.

Well I tried to qualify my thinking by saying "realistically". I know that by rankings and the form that goes into them that he can't be RANKED at No.2

However, i think if you realistically put the top lightweights side by side and were asked to put them in order of best fighter to worst (for want of a better term) fighter, BJ is No.2 behind Frankie. I still think todays BJ, if focused, is better than everyone but Frankie at LW.

Also, saying Maynard did better v Frankie than Penn did proves nothing. it doesn't even say anything about the situation.

A beats B, B beats C....... doesn not mean A automatically beats C!

Mellor

MrStuffins wrote: »

Also, saying Maynard did better v Frankie than Penn did proves nothing. it doesn't even say anything about the situation.

A beats B, B beats C....... doesn not mean A automatically beats C!

I never siad it was automatic or definitive. And that its proves it beyond a doubt.
But its an indicator. To say it doesn't say anything is ridiculous.

My top 5 at LW
1. Frankie Edgar
2. Gilbert Melendez
3. Gray Maynard
4. Shinya Aoki
5. Ben Henderson

If i was to include BJ in that.
I'd put the 2007-2009 BJ Penn, the LW Champ, at no.2
I'd but todays BJ at 5 or even 6.

MrStuffins

Mellor wrote: »

But its an indicator. To say it doesn't say anything is ridiculous.

It says nothing. Each fight is different. An indicator maybe, but nothing worth weighing up in reality.

Sonnen almost beat Silva, Silva made a show of Maia. Sonnen should slaughter Maia by your reckoning right? Not the case.

Rampage beat Machida, Rashad beat Rampage. Rashad beats Machida right? wrong!

Each fight is different.

Mellor

I clearly said its not definitive. That it's only an indicator. Did you even read my post. Or did you not understand it?

How could it be "an indicator, maybe" and "says nothing". That's a contradicton.
In close decisions you can't tell. But its complete dominating wins, its a big indicator.
If fighter A dominates fighter B for the whole fight, then in turn gets dominated by fighter C. If of course doesn't mean that C beat A 100%, but its a pretty good indicator that he should do.

Looking at one fight as a definitive means of anything is retarded. You could have the same fight 5 times each with a different outcome.

Sonnen should slaughter Maia by your reckoning right? Not the case

That's not what i said, not even close. Why would anyone say that?

Mellor

To clarify what I said.
BJ was out classed by Edgar twice.
Gray, had 2 very good fights with Edgar.
Based on that, plus recent fights obviously, I rank Gray ahead of BJ at 155, currently.


If you disagree, fair enough. But back it up.
Why do you rank BJ at no.2 currently. In only win in his last 4 was a KO win over a past prime Hughes.

MrStuffins

Mellor wrote: »

I clearly said its not definitive. That it's only an indicator. Did you even read my post. Or did you not understand it?

Yes I did. I just disagree with you, relax the cacks there!

How could it be "an indicator, maybe" and "says nothing". That's a contradicton.

Not necessarily. It's all about styles. Styles make fights.

What you implied was that because Maynard, a wrestler, did better against Edgar than BJ, a BJJ Champion who likes to box, did, that this indicates Maynard is a better LW fighter than BJ was when he fought Frankie.

I disagree with you.

In close decisions you can't tell. But its complete dominating wins, its a big indicator.

Then BJ/Edgar/BJ is a bad comparison isn't it? In this case, I could say BJ escaped getting finished by Frankie in 2 fights where Maynard didn't. he was clearly finished. Therefore BJ should be above Maynard.

But I wouldn't.

If fighter A dominates fighter B for the whole fight, then in turn gets dominated by fighter C. If of course doesn't mean that C beat A 100%, but its a pretty good indicator that he should do.

No it's not.

Looking at one fight as a definitive means of anything is retarded. You could have the same fight 5 times each with a different outcome.

Then luckily I listed 2 fights there. Wouldn't wanna be "retarded" now would I? :rolleyes:

I think you need to relax. Just because people disagree with you, there's no need to be throwing around words like retarded!

MrStuffins

Mellor wrote: »

To clarify what I said.
BJ was out classed by Edgar twice.
Gray, had 2 very good fights with Edgar.
Based on that, plus recent fights obviously, I rank Gray ahead of BJ at 155, currently.

I don't disagree that Maynard is ranked ahead of BJ. If you read my post earlier, I already implied that BJ shouldn't be ranked AT ALL at LW considering he hasn't fought there in over a year.

But I wasn't talking about the technicalities of the rankings. I was talking about who I thought was the best fighter at LW. I think Frankie is the best. But if you asked me who the 2nd best fighter at LW is i'd say it's BJ (should he be in the right mindset) regardless of who ranks above him based on form and recent results.

If you disagree, fair enough. But back it up.
Why do you rank BJ at no.2 currently. In only win in his last 4 was a KO win over a past prime Hughes.

it would seem you've had trouble understanding my point in the past. I hope the above clarifies my point.

Mellor

Lol, I'm relaxed. Don't worry
I have no problem with you disagreeing with me.
Retarded wasn't directed at you btw, its was just a general comment, that a single fight in isolation is a stupid place to start to begin with. For me included.

I wasn't aware of any rule where you had to fight with in 12 months to be ranked. The rankings make thier own rules imo.
By currently, I was refering to the fact that BJ is not now in the same shape he was 3-4 years ago. Not some semantics about why he can't technically be ranked.

As I said, lining up all the fighters, ignoring having to fight in 12 months or whatever, I put BJ outside the top 3.
You put him 2nd. i'm just asking why? Honestly, I'd just like to know why you think he is better than Maynard or Melendez, for example.

I just think from here, even if he gets into the right mindset, it's passed his prime.
BJ is one of my favs, but I don't know if he can ever challange a title again. I don't want to see him be a gatekeeper either

MrStuffins

I don't think he'd ever be a gatekeeper at LW but I can't see him being anything more than that at WW. He's simply too small for the weightclass and when he doesn't train properly it doesnt help either that there's guys like Nick Diaz in the division who would go for 10 rounds if asked.

I think in the last fight we saw a glimpse of the old BJ. He won that first round. He was quick, he was sharp, but he faded because, for me, he had no gas.

If BJ had the desire, which I really doubt he has, he could still be that old BJ.

He's still not beating Frankie though. I think the BJ who showed up for that 2nd fight was a fully trained, fully motivated BJ Penn.

Obviously I have no recent LW performances by BJ to back myself up here. But if you look at the rankings you listed above I think he's better on his feet and on the ground than Melendez. Aoki would be in all kinds of trouble against BJ. He's a better boxer than Maynard and could easily avoid his takedowns and I also I also think he'd smash Bendo all ends up.

These all depend on BJ being in the right frame of mind of course. Which I don't think he ever will be again. The only reason we saw BJ smashing people at 155 was because he still had that chip on his shoulder about never being LW Champion. I don't think he could ever get that fire back.

If BJ would bother getting in shape for his fights we would probably see him holding a belt right now.
I cant remember every seeing him in proper shape. Always carrying loose fat around the waist, never ripped. This shows his diet and cardio arent up to scratch. If you wana be the best you need to do the annoying things like eating your greens and proper cardio. Ricky Hatton is the perfect example of this, great boxer but when you reach the very top you have to do everything the right way or else you'll get taken out.
One of the reasons Randy did so well and lasted so long was his impeccable routine of cardio and diet.

BJ's bro Reegan fought the other night and was a total sham, gassed after 90 seconds. Those two had the same camp. If BJ wants to come back and get a chance of taking out title holders he needs to find a proper camp and get himself fit. We all know he has the skills.

MrStuffins

Deleted User wrote: »

If BJ would bother getting in shape for his fights we would probably see him holding a belt right now.
I cant remember every seeing him in proper shape. Always carrying loose fat around the waist, never ripped.

This is very true although there is ONE fight that comes to mind. BJ v Diego. BJ had abs (IIRC) , he looked lean, he looked fit and he went in there and fought at a high pace for almost 5 entire rounds.

He looked like a machine. He was so quick making Diego look slow, which is ridiculous!

It was an immense performance but I kinda wish it never happened. Because then I could live in an ignorant wonderland where I could pretend BJ just had talent but never ever had the motivation for it.

But he showed us what he could do when he can work hard and I don't think we'll ever see it again

Niall0

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is very true although there is ONE fight that comes to mind. BJ v Diego. BJ had abs (IIRC) , he looked lean, he looked fit and he went in there and fought at a high pace for almost 5 entire rounds.

He looked like a machine. He was so quick making Diego look slow, which is ridiculous!

It was an immense performance but I kinda wish it never happened. Because then I could live in an ignorant wonderland where I could pretend BJ just had talent but never ever had the motivation for it.

But he showed us what he could do when he can work hard and I don't think we'll ever see it again

Awesome fight, unfortunately it loks like BJ peaked at that point

Mellor

I thought about this a bit more last night.
I think I was a bit ahrsh on BJ. I still put Gray and Melendez ahead of him. But he's better than Bendo really. Whose yet to domiante a top 5 guy.
Aoki too. I think I was losing sight of the fact impressive runs in Dream, and still in Dream.

At the same time, I still can't ignore the fact that he only shows up half the time. I remember seeing him in a crossfit muscle up vid and thinking he should of been better.

This was BJ before the Diego fight.


Also, this was great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXoqfIU0C6Y

MrStuffins

Yeah, he was a machine before and during the Diego fight. He said Diego had been talking sh*t about him and saying he wanted to fight him.

After that, BJ never came back and I don't think he will!

Also, that swimming pool thing was just ridiculous!

Niall0

i think if he went to a training camp like jacksons hed probably have better cardio etc His training camps are at home with his brothers friends he needs to be put out of his comfort zone.

MrStuffins

Niall0 wrote: »

i think if he went to a training camp like jacksons hed probably have better cardio etc His training camps are at home with his brothers friends he needs to be put out of his comfort zone.

This is true. I've always thought this. But I don't think he wants to train like a pro.

And there's only so much progression you can have training with Troy Maldelonez and Justin McCully.

I'd love to see him go through a transformation but i can't see it.