FF and the Anglo payments - Are they for real?

dixiefly

These guys really are the epitome of the scum of the earth. They will say anything to improve their electoral position.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1101/1224306844531.html

FF urges Kenny to halt payment of Anglo bond bill
MARIE O'HALLORAN

Tue, Nov 01, 2011

FIANNA FÁIL has called on Taoiseach Enda Kenny to contact the new European Central Bank president Mario Draghi today in a “last-ditch” effort to stop the full repayment of the €715 million unsecured Anglo Irish Bank bond.

Mr Draghi takes over today as ECB president from Jean Claude Trichet and the €715 million bank bond is due to be paid tomorrow.

Fianna Fáil finance spokesman Michael McGrath said the Government’s “weak negotiating strategy” had allowed an expectation to grow in the markets that the bond would be paid in full.

The Taoiseach should impress on the ECB president the need to make substantial savings on the bank debt owed by Anglo and Irish Nationwide, Mr McGrath said.

“Otherwise, it will make the task of convincing the Irish people of the need for the measures in the upcoming budgets all the more difficult.”

He added that Mr Kenny “quite incredibly” did not “even put the issue of securing savings on this bank debt on the table during the European summit meetings of last Sunday and Wednesday”.

Minister for Finance Michael Noonan said last week however that “the concentration” of talks at the summit was not on Ireland and it was therefore not the time to raise the issue of promissory notes.

Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil have repeatedly criticised the Government’s refusal to seek reductions in the State debt burden.

Mr McGrath said yesterday there was a “fundamental issue of equity in the EU at stake here”. Greece was being granted a haircut of 50 per cent of its sovereign debt held by European banks while the ECB “is attempting to force Ireland to repay in full unsecured, unguaranteed bonds owed by failed Irish banks currently being wound up”.

He said a 50 per cent reduction in the bond would save Ireland more than €350 million.

Mr Noonan, however, has insisted that Ireland “is not Greece”. He said last week Ireland’s interests would not be served by imposing a haircut on bondholders.

Stressing that the Republic’s was a north European economy rather than a “displaced Mediterranean” one in the north Atlantic, he said the best case scenario for Greece was another 10 years of austerity.

Mr McGrath highlighted promises by Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore before the general election that it would be “Labour’s way, not Frankfurt’s way” and Fine Gael claims that the banks would not get any further funding unless senior bondholders shared the losses.

“Instead, it now appears certain that the €36 billion of unguaranteed bank bonds in the system when Fine Gael and Labour came to office will be repaid in their entirety, with no losses whatsoever imposed.”

The People’s Movement has also criticised the Government’s commitment to pay bondholders in full. In a statement, it said the payment “is yet another instalment of a programme of sacrifices demanded of the people of this country as their contribution to saving the euro”.

There was a need for a “real debate in this country about the alternatives to the now discredited line pushed for decades by this countries euro-federalists and euro fanatics”, it said.

© 2011 The Irish Times

barrmur

Someone should remind Mr McGrath that it was him and his ilk that got us into this mess in the first place. Christ you would swear that FF had nothing to do with the hassle we are all in.

These muppets are so far detached from reality that they actually think they are blameless in all of this. Commentators talk about FG/Lab having a honeymoon peroid that is coming to an end. As far I am concerned FF cannot open their mouths about anything until we are out of this crock of **** that they have put us in. If possible I would have these bastards run out of the country.

charlemont

Pot, Kettle, Michael McGrath is a extremely sly fox, If he thinks we wont forgot who created the mess then he is mistaken, That man lied through his teeth in the 2007 GE and somehow managed to get re-elected, He is his party leaders new right hand man, Yes Man to be exact and if we think FG are bad just never forget how bad FF were and with a man like McGrath they would be even worse if they ever got in again.

the groutch

someone should remind Mr McGrath of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtL06DVaZ00

raymon

The arrogance if these FFers is unreal , to lift an analogy from another thread : it is like a drunk who pissed on your carpet, and is telling you how to clean it up

FF ..... please crawl back under the rock

raymon

the groutch wrote: »

someone should remind Mr McGrath of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Well remembered the groutch !!!!!!!

michael999999

Is this any surprise when you have national newspapers declaring Brian Lenihan to be a patriot, these people dont live in the real world!

Fianna fail/developers/bankers leeched off this country for decades and now were paying the price!

michael999999

raymon wrote: »

The arrogance if these FFers is unreal , to lift an analogy from another thread : it is like a drunk who pissed on your carpet, and is telling you how to clean it up

FF ..... please crawl back under the rock

If we were Greek we would also crush the rock and all the leeches under it, were too quiet in this country!

ilovelois

so its ok for f.g and lab to break all election promises and carry on with f.f policies. they must be wetting themselves at just how stupid the irish people are. how long will we be listening to sure it was f.f got us into this mess. why cant we ever get a goverment that has the balls to stand up to e.u. as eamon gilmore once said its our way or frankfurts way. strange back then he gave the impression he was opposed to frankfurts way

elaverty

They will say what they think the people want to hear and when they want to hear it,and then do what they ****en want in there own interest,,,Afraid that we will be blacklisted if we renage on these debts,such a load of Bollox,,id rather be admired for haveing a bit of pride and some balls,than being laughed at for being so soft and gullable,,,
They are still in the Celtic Tiger Era and cant see the wood for the trees,,,,They are all the same,,DIFFERENT CLOWNS,SAME CIRCUS,,

barrmur

ilovelois wrote: »

so its ok for f.g and lab to break all election promises and carry on with f.f policies. they must be wetting themselves at just how stupid the irish people are. how long will we be listening to sure it was f.f got us into this mess. why cant we ever get a goverment that has the balls to stand up to e.u. as eamon gilmore once said its our way or frankfurts way. strange back then he gave the impression he was opposed to frankfurts way

Last time I checked it WAS FF that got us into this mess. That will never ever change.

As for continuing to follow FF policies. A lot of what they have done was signed of by FF. Like it or not FF have giving any incoming government for the next few elections carte blanche to do whatever is necessary and they cannot, or should not, open their mouths. The old "Sure you put us in this mess" card will be good for a long time yet.

later12

the groutch wrote: »

someone should remind Mr McGrath of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtL06DVaZ00

A really woeful performance by Mary Hanafin there, certainly.

But Michael McGrath was a young and, quite frankly, rather invisible member of the Fianna Fail party at the time from the point of view of the party leadership. I don't think he needs to be reminded of disgraceful representations like that by the old guard of the party.

Fianna Fail are an un-recognizable party from that which existed one year ago, when it first became apparent that they had led us to the doorstep of the IMF.

But that does not preclude younger, newer and I would suggest wiser members of the party from criticizing the Fine Gael government who today carry on in a behaviour that, tragically, pays homage to the behaviour of Cowen and Co.

raymon

later10 wrote: »

A really woeful performance by Mary Hanafin there, certainly.

But Michael McGrath was a young and, quite frankly, rather invisible member of the Fianna Fail party at the time from the point of view of the party leadership. I don't think he needs to be reminded of disgraceful representations like that by the old guard of the party.

Fianna Fail are an un-recognizable party from that which existed one year ago, when it first became apparent that they had led us to the doorstep of the IMF.

But that does not preclude younger, newer and I would suggest wiser members of the party from criticizing the Fine Gael government who today carry on in a behaviour that, tragically, pays homage to the behaviour of Cowen and Co.

You sound like the Cowen era was years ago and that the party has undergone some kind of rehabilitation . That was just a few months ago ....

Who is the currently vice president of FF ..... I mean right now..... today...?
Mary hanafin is

FF are still a disgrace with Martin as leader and Willie o dea on the imaginary front bench

The whole Sean Gallagher debacle showed just how deep the dishonesty of Fianna fail goes.

Murky stuff all around

later12

raymon wrote: »

You sound like the Cowen era was years ago and that the party has undergone some kind of rehabilitation . That was just a few months ago ...

Well raymon the fact is that Fianna Fail was weeded out from the roots upwards last year. The party got what to its longterm members was a shocking a debilitating surprise, and what was in the eyes of its younger members a bitter, yet deserved rebuff.

I don't believe that any of us newer members of the party have any apology to make for those chancers and wasteful 'public representatives' as have come before us.

The best thing that Fianna Fail can offer these days is, hopefully, some semblance of opposition to those policies which its irresponsible former members and the current FG government seem to favour.

raymon

later10 wrote: »

Well raymon the fact is that Fianna Fail was weeded out from the roots upwards last year. The party got what to its longterm members was a shocking a debilitating surprise, and what was in the eyes of its younger members a bitter, yet deserved rebuff.

I don't believe that any of us newer members of the party have any apology to make for those chancers and wasteful 'public representatives' as have come before us.

The best thing that Fianna Fail can offer these days is, hopefully, some semblance of opposition to those policies which its irresponsible former members and the current FG government seem to favour.

Are Martin, o Dea and Hanafin weeds?

later12

Personally I would say Absolutely. And in the eyes of many younger members I think the sooner Hanafin and O'Dea in particular leave the party the better.

Micheal Martin in particular sought to oppose Brian Cowen, but the other two sat through an inexcusable period of mis-governance. Hanafin was a particularly inexcusable supporter of Brian Cowen, and that can not go un-acknowledged.

Dirk Gently

sorry about this later10, but I actually have as much, if not more disdain for new fluffy young hip FF members than the disgraced old guard. You're doing the country a dis-service by keeping alive a rotten organisation for another generation. Do the country a favour, let FF die and leave room for a genuine progressive and accountable opposition to develop.

ilovelois

barrmur wrote: »

Last time I checked it WAS FF that got us into this mess. That will never ever change.

As for continuing to follow FF policies. A lot of what they have done was signed of by FF. Like it or not FF have giving any incoming government for the next few elections carte blanche to do whatever is necessary and they cannot, or should not, open their mouths. The old "Sure you put us in this mess" card will be good for a long time yet.

it wasnt f.f that got us into this mess. it was the people siting back and saying nothing while the f.f goverment walked us into it. and you want us to sit back and watch while the f.g lab govermentkeep digging us into an even bigger hole. its time for an irish goverment to refuse to be bullied and do the right thing not the easy thing

ilovelois

raymon wrote: »

You sound like the Cowen era was years ago and that the party has undergone some kind of rehabilitation . That was just a few months ago ....

Who is the currently vice president of FF ..... I mean right now..... today...?
Mary hanafin is

FF are still a disgrace with Martin as leader and Willie o dea on the imaginary front bench

The whole Sean Gallagher debacle showed just how deep the dishonesty of Fianna fail goes.

Murky stuff all around

but there was no sean gallagher debacle in reality

Chuck Stone

later10 wrote: »

The best thing that Fianna Fail can offer these days is, hopefully, some semblance of opposition to those policies which its irresponsible former members and the current FG government seem to favour.

Just got a mental image of Henry Sellers with a massive hangover after wrecking Craggy Island's Parochial House telling people they shouldn't drink.

dixiefly

ilovelois wrote: »

so its ok for f.g and lab to break all election promises and carry on with f.f policies. they must be wetting themselves at just how stupid the irish people are. how long will we be listening to sure it was f.f got us into this mess. why cant we ever get a goverment that has the balls to stand up to e.u. as eamon gilmore once said its our way or frankfurts way. strange back then he gave the impression he was opposed to frankfurts way

Unfortunately a FF lead government took over Anglo debts lock stock and barrell on the behalf of the Irish state. This was the greatest economic related mistake made by any irish government.

The new government should have shown more balls and got out of this but they are saying that they are tied to this and the only way to get out would be in conjunction with those that are bailing us out.

Someone should get Michael Martin in and comment on FF's position on this. He should be made discuss ALL aspects of it not wheel out McGrath for the purposes of petty political point scoring.

blahfckingblah

can anyone tell me Fine Gaels argument for paying these bondholders especially since they have argued against it in the past?
I can guess that they have some notion that they are obliged to like they say about everything they uturn on. Before anyone replys in the "but FF..." route im not really interested in what they done i know already

dixiefly

Noonan was on Morning Ireand and said that since the state took over Ango Irish they made a legal committment there and then to cover these debts ike any other.

What gets me is that if we knew that we woud have to pay this why we could not have bought those bonds when they were very cheap - as it has turned out a number of specuators have made a fortune on this. I didnt reaise that before the Dukes interview on the radio.

Really really galling. Reminded me a bit of us sending money and goods to other countries during the famine when our own people needed it themselves.

Snakeblood

blahfckingblah wrote: »

can anyone tell me Fine Gaels argument for paying these bondholders especially since they have argued against it in the past?
I can guess that they have some notion that they are obliged to like they say about everything they uturn on. Before anyone replys in the "but FF..." route im not really interested in what they done i know already

The argument is that if they don't pay back these bonds, then the other people who have Irish bonds will demand they are repaid at once because they have lost faith in the Irish governments ability to repay. Either we tell everyone after that to piss off and the ECB decides to pay our debts, or we can't borrow again from the markets, in which case we go into sudden and sharp downward spiral, all multinationals leave the country, taxes shoot up, PS redundancy goes way up, anyone who can leave the country at that point does.

the groutch

sorry later10, but you arguement doesnt hold water.
Michael McGrath has been a TD since 2007, and he would have helped vote through every bad decision FF made since then, so don't try pretend that he's the "new guard".
the reality is that of their 19 TDs, only 4 were newly elected this year (one of which is Brian Cowen's brother), and 11 of them have been TDs since 1997.
it's the same old FF, just (thankfully) less of them.

WhatNowForUs?

FF is but a name.

I for one would welcome a new guard with new ideas and a better ettical backbone.

If they want to change their veiw on what their predesessors did I welcome that.
If what they are saying now is the correct thing well I welcome that also.

However it will still be a long time before they can prove to me that this is so the case.

raymon

Michael Mcgrath was centre of all of this . Let's not try to rewrite the failure and incompetence.

In fact Mcgrath spoke very vocally in support of the bank guarantee scheme on Wed 17 Nov 2010 in a dail debate

raymon

ilovelois wrote: »

it wasnt f.f that got us into this mess. it was the people siting back and saying nothing while the f.f goverment walked us into it. and you want us to sit back and watch while the f.g lab govermentkeep digging us into an even bigger hole. its time for an irish goverment to refuse to be bullied and do the right thing not the easy thing

Untrue
It was indeed FF

raymon

ilovelois wrote: »

but there was no sean gallagher debacle in reality

You are correct , this FF liar and charlatan got exposed before it was too late .

bmaxi

Time for the Government to give up on the blame game, tell us something we don't fcuking know. They should be looking for ways to relieve the pressure on the Irish people, not looking for a pat on the head from "Der Fuhrer".
Most investments will carry the warning "investments may go up or down in value" and I heard Mick Wallace say on radio this morning that many of these bonds have already changed hands at up to 50% markdown. I can't verify this but it seems to me that, if it's the case, somebody is going to make a fat profit just because our Government can't be arsed.

barrmur

ilovelois wrote: »

it wasnt f.f that got us into this mess. it was the people siting back and saying nothing while the f.f goverment walked us into it. and you want us to sit back and watch while the f.g lab govermentkeep digging us into an even bigger hole. its time for an irish goverment to refuse to be bullied and do the right thing not the easy thing

So the driver of the bus going over the cliff has no responsibility, its the passengers fault?

Zubeneschamali

blahfckingblah wrote: »

can anyone tell me Fine Gaels argument for paying these bondholders especially since they have argued against it in the past?

We are broke. We are running the country with money from our Euro friends.

They said "Pay the bond-holders!", we said "How much?", they said "Everything, with interest", we said "OK, boss."

As to why we are broke and running the country with money from our Euro friends, it's because FF ran the country into a ditch, and called in the IMF to pull us out.

And now they are bitching about it.

jimmycrackcorm

FF were reminding the government that pre-election they were putting out the line that there was not one more red cent for Anglo.

Perhaps the pertinent point is that FG are carrying on the same policies as FF, as probably SF would in power just as they carry out cuts in the North.

take everything

the groutch wrote: »

someone should remind Mr McGrath of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtL06DVaZ00

God, Hanafin is utterly pathetic there, squirming and talking nonsense.

raymon

take everything wrote: »

God, Hanafin is utterly pathetic there, squirming and talking nonsense.

She is the vice president of Fianna fail right now.

What a sorry bunch.

nesf

Dirk Gently wrote: »

sorry about this later10, but I actually have as much, if not more disdain for new fluffy young hip FF members than the disgraced old guard. You're doing the country a dis-service by keeping alive a rotten organisation for another generation. Do the country a favour, let FF die and leave room for a genuine progressive and accountable opposition to develop.

A grassroots organisation as deep and wide as FF is not just going to disappear you know. Better to change it into something useful rather than sit around wishing that a party the size (or bigger) of FG's is going to vanish quickly from the scene.

thebman

nesf wrote: »

A grassroots organisation as deep and wide as FF is not just going to disappear you know. Better to change it into something useful rather than sit around wishing that a party the size (or bigger) of FG's is going to vanish quickly from the scene.

Hard to believe that is what the grassroots want though.

Our political parties are populist by necessity to get elected.

FF just want to become what is popular but what is popular is not them at the moment so they are just sitting in the grass waiting for it to pass.

nesf

thebman wrote: »

Hard to believe that is what the grassroots want though.

Our political parties are populist by necessity to get elected.

FF just want to become what is popular but what is popular is not them at the moment so they are just sitting in the grass waiting for it to pass.

I think the grassroots want to see a purge at the top level. It will be interesting to see how and who they run at the next General Election.

Wider Road

raymon wrote: »

The arrogance if these FFers is unreal , to lift an analogy from another thread : it is like a drunk who pissed on your carpet, and is telling you how to clean it up

FF ..... please crawl back under the rock

Simple Question,
Is the present govt correct in paying 750m approx to the Anglo bondholders?
Please, Yes or No.

raymon

Wider Road wrote: »

Simple Question,
Is the present govt correct in paying 750m approx to the Anglo bondholders?
Please, Yes or No.

FF made these deals while in power.

If you look at the hanafin video , they didn't even know why they were making the commitments.


I am not here to defend the govt ..... far from it.

My point is that the FFers got us into the mess and we should not forget .

Let us never forget

Please watch the hanafin video if you haven't done.so already , for some historical context

hallelujajordan

It is correct that FF made the deal that led to us inheriting the Anglo debt. It is also correct that FG (Noonan most vocally) rejected that deal . . . Kenny and others made very strong statements about how unguaranteed bondholders should not and would not be paid.

Now, the government are going back on their word and it is the role of the opposition in the Dail to challenge them on this u-turn. Like it or not, FF are the chief opposition party and this is what we need them to do . . note . . McGrath did not say that the bonds should not be paid; he suggested that the government should have sought to negotiate them downwards . .

BTW, we don't know what would happen here if FF were still in government. Perhaps they would have tried to negotiate the bonds downwards as McGrath suggests. Personally, I think they would have paid them in full. However, one thing we can be certain of is that if Noonan were Finance spokesman on the opposition benches this week he would be lambasting the government for paying these bonds. . . .

JustinDee

hallelujajordan wrote: »

It is correct that FF made the deal that led to us inheriting the Anglo debt. It is also correct that FG (Noonan most vocally) rejected that deal . . . Kenny and others made very strong statements about how unguaranteed bondholders should not and would not be paid.

Now, the government are going back on their word and it is the role of the opposition in the Dail to challenge them on this u-turn. Like it or not, FF are the chief opposition party and this is what we need them to do . . note . . McGrath did not say that the bonds should not be paid; he suggested that the government should have sought to negotiate them downwards . .

BTW, we don't know what would happen here if FF were still in government. Perhaps they would have tried to negotiate the bonds downwards as McGrath suggests. Personally, I think they would have paid them in full. However, one thing we can be certain of is that if Noonan were Finance spokesman on the opposition benches this week he would be lambasting the government for paying these bonds. . . .

Nobody goes to a shopaholic gambler for financial advice, which is basically what Fianna Fail are 'offering' with this hypocritical guff.

Opposition is easy. Just take a contrarian or outraged stance as there is no need to follow it up.

hallelujajordan

JustinDee wrote: »

Nobody goes to a shopaholic gambler for financial advice, which is basically what Fianna Fail are 'offering' with this hypocritical guff.

Except that Fianna Fail have a democratic mandate to play that role. . We have to recognise it and we should expect them to do it to the best of their ability

Opposition is easy. Just take a contrarian or outraged stance as there is no need to follow it up.

As Enda 'We-wont-pay-unguaranteed bondholders' Kenny is now learning. . .

DJCR

dixiefly wrote: »

These guys really are the epitome of the scum of the earth. They will say anything to improve their electoral position.

Looks like the scum of the Earth arn't the only ones,

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/11/02/you-tell-them-leo/

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Except that Fianna Fail have a democratic mandate to play that role. . We have to recognise it and we should expect them to do it to the best of their ability
.

But Michael Martin and Michael Mc Grath caused this . They were front and centre during the last administration.

Those two incompetents should not be complaining about how the coalition are handling their mess with their fake outrage .

They should put someone else up front as their spokesman. Someone untainted . And not Biffos brother or Willie o dea either.

JustinDee

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Except that Fianna Fail have a democratic mandate to play that role. . We have to recognise it and we should expect them to do it to the best of their ability

"We have to recognise it"??
'We' can intepret it any way we see fit.
Personally, I see it nothing more than what I described ie. hypocritical bilge from the people responsible in the first place.

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

But Michael Martin and Michael Mc Grath caused this . They were front and centre during the last administration.

Those two incompetents should not be complaining about how the coalition are handling their mess with their fake outrage .

They should put someone else up front as their spokesman. Someone untainted . And not Biffos brother or Willie o dea either.

Stretching it a little to suggest that Michael McGrath was 'front and centre' of government finance policy during the last administration but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant. .

Also, how do you think Noonan would be reacting this week if FF were still in government and were paying this bond ?

Do you disagree with the FF assessment that the govt should be trying to negotiate a discount in this bond ?

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Stretching it a little to suggest that Michael McGrath was 'front and centre' of government finance policy during the last administration but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant. .

Also, how do you think Noonan would be reacting this week if FF were still in government and were paying this bond ?

Do you disagree with the FF assessment that the govt should be trying to negotiate a discount in this bond ?

Not a stretch at all. In fact Mc Grath led many discussions on the bank bailouts .
Just one example was on 17 Nov 2010 where Mcgrath was leading the debate in the dail on the bank guarantee scheme, deputising for Brian Lenihan.
The opposition complained that they wanted the real minister for finance to debate rather than him

Noonan would be shouting loudly if FF were still in govt.

But the FF govt where Martin and Mc Grath were front and center , caused this mess and should sit back down with their fake theatrics. They agreed to these ridiculous agreements to pay bondholders

Someone else from the FF party should speak , before the shinners become the only opposition. (i didn't say credible opposition)

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

Not a stretch at all. In fact Mc Grath led many discussions on the bank bailouts .
Just one example was on 17 Nov 2010 where Mcgrath was leading the debate in the dail on the bank guarantee scheme, deputising for Brian Lenihan.
The opposition complained that they wanted the real minister for finance to debate rather than him

Noonan would be shouting loudly if FF were still in govt.

But the FF govt where Martin and Mc Grath were front and center , caused this mess and should sit back down with their fake theatrics. They agreed to these ridiculous agreements to pay bondholders

So Fine Gael and Labour representatives are allowed to do a complete 360 on their 'burn the bondholders' position but Fianna Fail representatives are not allowed to adjust their position and suggest that perhaps some further negotiation of the debt should take place ? ? ? ? That's consistent !

btw, you didn't answer my question . . do you disagree with the FF assessment that the government should be trying to negotiate a discount on these bonds ?

Also, Michael McGrath was not at the cabinet table and played no role in making decisions on government policy or on the bank bailout so 'front and centre' is entirely misleading.

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So Fine Gael and Labour representatives are allowed to do a complete 360 on their 'burn the bondholders' position but Fianna Fail representatives are not allowed to adjust their position and suggest that perhaps some further negotiation of the debt should take place ? ? ? ? That's consistent !

btw, you didn't answer my question . . do you disagree with the FF assessment that the government should be trying to negotiate a discount on these bonds ?

Also, Michael McGrath was not at the cabinet table and played no role in making decisions on government policy or on the bank bailout so 'front and centre' is entirely misleading.

Not misleading at all , he was very vocal in support of the bank bailout. He wasn't in cabinet but was one of the loudest supporters of the bailout.

To answer your question , it appears that FF made binding agreements that were not reversible

And I'm not going to defend FG or labour.

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

Not misleading at all , he was very vocal in support of the bank bailout. He wasn't in cabinet but was one of the loudest supporters of the bailout.

To answer your question , it appears that FF made binding agreements that were not reversible

And I'm not going to defend FG or labour.

Yes, Enda Kenny voted for the bank bailout too . . !

You are wrong about FF making binding agreements . . there is no agreement that says that the government could not make a decision to either not pay or to renegotiate on these bonds . . . Even if there were an agreement, Enda Kenny made a very big point in the last election around how any such agreements would be renegotiated. . so you haven't really answered the question . ..

Should they be trying to renegotiate the bonds as suggested by Fianna Fail ??