Losing weight??

closeline

Hi there, I have posted several times to try to lose weigh but unfortunately it isnt going exactly to plan. I am 19 years old. 90 kg..about 5"11, maybe 6 foot. I am a bit overweight. It wouldnt be overly obvious but there is a bit too much fat there..mostly in my stomach, backside and legs.

I do a lot of exercise. The usual stuff. Unfortunatley I eat way too much. Most days I would either have a bar or/and a packet of sweets. I am trying to give them up. What exercise would you advise me to do...I want to look very fit...six pack..fairly strong muscle wise...I play GAA so obvioulsy I dont want to gain too much muscle....Firstly though I want to lose the fat. I dont want to turn the fat into muscle...90 kg is enough and I dont want to weigh anymore than that. I would prefer to lose all the excess fat first and then put on the muscle.Obviously this would take a long time.What exercise would you suggest me to do exercise..Running/bike work in the gym/rowing/core exercises etc...Also, what should I be eating and not eating...

I would greatly appreciate if someonecould reply to this. Thanks.

Oryx

I eat way too much

You need to fix this or any exercise you do will not help you like it should.

I dont want to turn the fat into muscle

You cant do this, but I know what you mean. Saying youll lose fat then build muscle is overcomplicating and prolonging the whole thing. It is possible to exercise and not get very muscular, in fact just ask any of the guys how hard youve got to work to build big muscle!

Post up what your current (honest) diet is and the exercise you do.

CIARAN_BOYLE

It seems to me that your problems are all on the diet side of the equation. More exercise will help but cutting down on food may be your only option

pixiebob

you need to count calories or you're beat before you start. work out your tdee (loads of apps online for this) then its a simple matter of expending more cals than you consume.

fasted cardios first thing in the morning are the way to go, work at a low-medium intensity.

remember that the training is the easy part and the difficult part is the diet, but once you get into the habit of counting cals and weighing food you'll be able to do it visually after awhile.

Doug Cartel

pixiebob wrote: »

fasted cardios first thing in the morning are the way to go, work at a low-medium intensity.

Man up and put a good hard session in. Obviously, you don't want to go so hard you get wrecked, but make sure you're challenging yourself.

Also, assuming the total amount you eat stays constant, I don't think it actually matters if you are "fasted" when you do your exercise. Personally, I prefer to train about an hour and a half after my last meal, as I feel I have more energy to put into my session. Don't know if this actually makes a difference though.

pixiebob

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Man up and put a good hard session in. Obviously, you don't want to go so hard you get wrecked, but make sure you're challenging yourself.

Also, assuming the total amount you eat stays constant, I don't think it actually matters if you are "fasted" when you do your exercise. Personally, I prefer to train about an hour and a half after my last meal, as I feel I have more energy to put into my session. Don't know if this actually makes a difference though.

he wants to specifically loss body fat, so can you explain how 'man up' and put a hard session in is going to achieve this? it'll be news to me.

infact, reading all of your post, do you have the first clue about training and weight loss at all?

if you dont know what you're talking about its best to not 'advise'

Jeebz

Aight mate, first of all diet is very important if you want to lose weight. Heres what you should do,

1. Cut out the stuff you KNOW, you shouldn't be eating.

2. Breakfast is very important, and a good meal in the morning will go a long way and keep you feeling fuller for longer. A personal favourite of mine is skimmed milk and organic oats with honey, very healthy and it tastes good.

3. If at all possible, get your fats, from good sources, not saturated, things like avocado, flax seeds, almonds are a fantastic source of good fats.

4. Overeating - I cannot stress this enough, this is the, in my opinion, single most common cause of gaining weight, eating when you're bored, or finishing that plate of food when you know you shouldn't...it may not sound like much, but trust me, master this, and it'l go a huge efforts, not only your weight loss, but personal discipline as well.

5. Water - Water is the, single most important thing in losing weight, drinking a glass or two of water before a meal will lessen your appetite and make losing weight, much easier. Hydration also keeps you energised.

6. Eating before sleep. This would be a personal no no on my part. When you eat right before you sleep the body doesnt spend as much time regenerating energy and it spends energy on breaking down your food as well, personally I'd say avoid a massive dinner, eat a bit, but eat roughly 3 - 4 hours before you go to sleep.

7. Get plenty of sleep.

As far as exercise goes, seeing as you dont want to build muscle.

Cardio... Every day... for 20 - 50 minutes.

What is cardio? Cardio, is any exercise that elevates your heart rate...and keeps it there for the duration of your exercise. This can include brisk walks, jogging, swimming or biking. I would say given your age, what you need to do, is an exercise that elevates your heart rate into the range of 160 - 170 for that at least 20 minutes. I would recommend maybe start with the walking, for 50 minutes, and if you're feeling up to it, try the jog for, a start, 15 minutes, and week by week increase it from 15 to 17, to 19 etc, whatever makes you feel comfortable.

Why everyday if you're wondering, why 20 minutes, heres why. The human body through being worked, will automatically shed weight, depending on how intense and long the cardio routine is. If you can run n push that heart rate into that target zone i described earlier, of 20 min a day, your body will shed .2 kg a week, just through being worked, and that's not counting shedding the weight you are taken off from the exercise.

Six Pack

First of all let me say this. Anyone telling you to lots of crunches, sit ups or exercises, and you'll get a 6 pack, is talking through their ass. Your entire upper body mass is residing on top of your abdominal muscles, it is already strong. there are 3 things to getting a six pack:

1. Eat that little bit less
2. Exercise that little bit harder
3. DRINK WATER

Any calories not used in exercise will make your body store it as fat. You cannot remove a certain part of your bodys fat through working that area. It will strengthen the area, it wont remove the fat. Diet and cardio is what will give you that 6 pack abs. Dont get me wrong, exercises that hurt your stomach will in fact help you get the 6 pack, but only improve the muscle mass, so if you want to get huge bulging abs, cardio and hard ab workouts will do the trick, but if you're just looking for marathon type abs, that daily cardio is a fantastic step forward in that goal, just make sure you dont eat messy and drink your water...otherwise, all your efforts are in vain mate

pixiebob

Jeebz wrote: »

Aight mate, first of all diet is very important if you want to lose weight. Heres what you should do,

1. Cut out the stuff you KNOW, you shouldn't be eating.

2. Breakfast is very important, and a good meal in the morning will go a long way and keep you feeling fuller for longer. A personal favourite of mine is skimmed milk and organic oats with honey, very healthy and it tastes good. if he wants to lose bf he really should get his cardio pre-breakfast, as well as using stored fat for energy it will heighten metabolism for the rest of the day

3. If at all possible, get your fats, from good sources, not saturated, things like avocado, flax seeds, almonds are a fantastic source of good fats.a simple supplement will take care of this and avoid any guess work

4. Overeating - I cannot stress this enough, this is the, in my opinion, single most common cause of gaining weight, eating when you're bored, or finishing that plate of food when you know you shouldn't...it may not sound like much, but trust me, master this, and it'l go a huge efforts, not only your weight loss, but personal discipline as well.

5. Water - Water is the, single most important thing in losing weight, drinking a glass or two of water before a meal will lessen your appetite and make losing weight, much easier. Hydration also keeps you energised.

6. Eating before sleep. This would be a personal no no on my part. When you eat right before you sleep the body doesnt spend as much time regenerating energy and it spends energy on breaking down your food as well, personally I'd say avoid a massive dinner, eat a bit, but eat roughly 3 - 4 hours before you go to sleep. a slow digesting protein SHOULD be consumed before bedtime

7. Get plenty of sleep.

As far as exercise goes, seeing as you dont want to build muscle.

Cardio... Every day... for 20 - 50 minutes. at least 45min fasted

What is cardio? Cardio, is any exercise that elevates your heart rate...and keeps it there for the duration of your exercise. This can include brisk walks, jogging, swimming or biking. I would say given your age, what you need to do, is an exercise that elevates your heart rate into the range of 160 - 170 for that at least 20 minutes. I would recommend maybe start with the walking, for 50 minutes, and if you're feeling up to it, try the jog for, a start, 15 minutes, and week by week increase it from 15 to 17, to 19 etc, whatever makes you feel comfortable.for burning bf 140-150 is enough

Why everyday if you're wondering, why 20 minutes, heres why. The human body through being worked, will automatically shed weight, depending on how intense and long the cardio routine is. If you can run n push that heart rate into that target zone i described earlier, of 20 min a day, your body will shed .2 kg a week, just through being worked, and that's not counting shedding the weight you are taken off from the exercise.this is just speculative nonsense, diets need to be based around cals in v cal expenditure

Six Pack

First of all let me say this. Anyone telling you to lots of crunches, sit ups or exercises, and you'll get a 6 pack, is talking through their ass. Your entire upper body mass is residing on top of your abdominal muscles, it is already strong. there are 3 things to getting a six pack:

1. Eat that little bit less
2. Exercise that little bit harder
3. DRINK WATER

Any calories not used in exercise will make your body store it as fat. You cannot remove a certain part of your bodys fat through working that area. It will strengthen the area, it wont remove the fat. Diet and cardio is what will give you that 6 pack abs. Dont get me wrong, exercises that hurt your stomach will in fact help you get the 6 pack, but only improve the muscle mass, so if you want to get huge bulging abs, cardio and hard ab workouts will do the trick, but if you're just looking for marathon type abs, that daily cardio is a fantastic step forward in that goal, just make sure you dont eat messy and drink your water...otherwise, all your efforts are in vain mate

bolds

Jeebz

First of all...

1. No, Cardio before breakfast is a really bad idea. Yes in theory it burns more calories, however you wont be able to do your cardio for nearly as long. Your body needs some energy, and in my experience, you devour more food than you need to after that cardio workout. And doing cardio on on empty stomach, isnt good either for the reason of, you'll crave food.

2. No, im a firm believer in getting your nutrition straight from it source, at least you know what is in them, not saying there are things you don't know about ( pesticides for example ) with supplements you may not know either, and secondly, a silly supplement isn't a meal or a healthy snack. You can eat the supplement and still eat garbage cause you aren't full from the supplement.

3. I have no knowledge on slow proteins so on that, I cant comment. My personal experience is that eating before bed just isn't a good idea at all, though the slow digesting protein seems logical.

4. No 20 min will do fine as a start, obviously the more time the more impact, and the heavier the exercise, what's important is the target heart rate.

5. Those arent my numbers, those are from medicine associations charts. Take it up with them

6. Its not speculative nonsense. What I loosely tried to say there, is from a 1918 established theory by Harris and Benedict. It's called the Harris-Benedict Equation

closeline

Thanks for all the replys lads. Hopefully I can take them on and use them to my advantage. I exercis a lot. 2 nights of indoor soccer in the week and 2/3 other nights doing cardio in the gym or just running around a field. Im in college so I get porridge in the college as much as possible in the mornings. I usually get a dinner there too...It could be pasta, soup, chicken etc...the odd day if I am running late i would get a roll. When I go home I would always eat something big like a dinner or supper. It is just the eating in between. Even after eating a dinner I could go to the shop in college and buy something unhealthy. Hopefully I can replace the crap stuff by eating more fruit and drinking more water. Is there anything else that ye would suggest as a snack instead of fruit?? Also, eating late at night seems a big problem. I find it very hard to go to sleep hungry but maybe I can change this over the next couple of months. Is it possible to lose a kg by Christmas if I do this right??

pixiebob

Jeebz wrote: »

First of all...

1. No, Cardio before breakfast is a really bad idea. Yes in theory it burns more calories, however you wont be able to do your cardio for nearly as long. Your body needs some energy, and in my experience, you devour more food than you need to after that cardio workout. And doing cardio on on empty stomach, isnt good either for the reason of, you'll crave food.absolute rubbish, im sorry but it has to be said

2. No, im a firm believer in getting your nutrition straight from it source, at least you know what is in them, not saying there are things you don't know about ( pesticides for example ) with supplements you may not know either, and secondly, a silly supplement isn't a meal or a healthy snack. You can eat the supplement and still eat garbage cause you aren't full from the supplement.oh dear, fish oil supps etc are the most 'natural' out there, heard of cod liver oil? why would you bother eating avocados etc when you can have the extracted active ingredient. dont confuse these with the body building orientated crap

3. I have no knowledge on slow proteins so on that, I cant comment. My personal experience is that eating before bed just isn't a good idea at all, though the slow digesting protein seems logical.man, no offence but if you cant comment on something so basic you really shouldnt be giving diet advice

4. No 20 min will do fine as a start, obviously the more time the more impact, and the heavier the exercise, what's important is the target heart rate.absolute rubbish again with a generally coined phrase as evidence

5. Those arent my numbers, those are from medicine associations charts. Take it up with them i suppose you think BMI tables are accurate to all the population also?

6. Its not speculative nonsense. What I loosely tried to say there, is from a 1918 established theory by Harris and Benedict. It's called the Harris-Benedict Equation so according to this scale and you we'd all lose exactly the weight stated? this is just getting laughable now

bolds

man you really need to come into the 21st century, stop using government data as fact and get some real life experience behind you.

what are your academical credentials and sports experience to support your stance?
ive been doing this 20yrs in a sporting capacity and have worked in the field for a considerable amount of those 20yrs. im also 3rd level academically qualified, although i will say its experience that counts.
ive helped countless clients achieve their goals through my described methods.

im not trying to bust your chops but i see an alarming rate of bad advice flowing through this forum, Men's Health magazine springs to mind, unfortunatley. rem there are ppl on here who will take the 'advice' at literal meaning and still end up going around in circles.

there are basic guidelines yes, but fitness is not full of steadfast rules and black and white do's and dont's, there are many variables and unless you've experienced this first hand then you cant possible know.

Mellor

Pixiebob, a few questions,

Do you think that the net loss will be greater if an individual does cardio before eating? Obviously, assuming that calorie intake and output is the same. Why?

Do you think that intensity might suffer due to being fasted?

You mentioned a heart rate for burning bf. I agree that more of you energy will come from body fat, but why does it matter where it comes from at that exact time. The body will regulate afterward. Unused food and excess glycogen will become fat, or if we are buring all our glycogen, then body must use fat to get through the rest of the day.

Working at a higher heart rate will result in more calories burned, assuming the same intake, i'd expect this to result in more fat lost. based on calories in vrs calories out.

Why should a person who is trying to lose weight take a protein befoee bed. This is fine if the intake is the same, but in my opinion a person who struggles to eat the correct amount is less likely to eat a deficit if they add a meal/snack before bed.


I await your commets in bold.

pixiebob

Mellor wrote: »

Pixiebob, a few questions,

Do you think that the net loss will be greater if an individual does cardio before eating? yes Obviously, assuming that calorie intake and output is the same. Why? thats why you alter calorie input, to create a deficit

Do you think that intensity might suffer due to being fasted?no, its not high intensity work and as a matter of fact, the subject will experience greater energy levels as fat (stored energy) gets tapped into. in stark contrast, ive performed powerlifting routines, working up to 250kg dlifts, fasted in the morn

You mentioned a heart rate for burning bf. I agree that more of you energy will come from body fat, but why does it matter where it comes from at that exact time. because the point is to use the fat for fuel The body will regulate afterward. you'll still have burned off fat and you manipulate diet to prevent the body from self regulating Unused food sketchy description. j/k and excess glycogen will become fat, adjusting TDEE will minimalise this, lower carb intake and increase protein intake. its a slow process of trial and error, it certainly doesnt happen overnight. btw, excess carbs and protein impair fat oxidisation, they dont 'convert' to fat, if they are in excess they just cause more fat to be stored if or if we are buring all our glycogen, then body must use fat to get through the rest of the day.

Working at a higher heart rate will result in more calories burned, assuming the same intake, i'd expect this to result in more fat lost. based on calories in vrs calories out. higher intensity (cardio fitness) requires more carb intake, we are trying to burning fat here and we are hitting it directly and head on, so we will leave cardio fitness until we've met the first goal. mixed intensity is fine for maintenance but not ideal for fat loss in my experience

Why should a person who is trying to lose weight take a protein befoee bed. This is fine if the intake is the same, but in my opinion a person who struggles to eat the correct amount is less likely to eat a deficit if they add a meal/snack before bed. say a person eats a meal at 2000 and goes to bed at 0000 and gets up at 0800, thats 12hrs fasted and slows metabolism down, which is not what we want, a slow casein based protein (cottage cheese or powered supps) will drip feed the body roughly over an 8hr period


I await your commets in bold.

now, again this is a basic guide, there are many variations like high carb days, medium carb days etc all dependant on where that person is at. the OP said he doesnt want to build muscle, i most definitely advise he still follows a weights programme also, makes for a more complete picture and further aids in bf loss.

my advice is based upon someone taking a decision to lower bf %. i implement a modified akins (high protein, low carbs) diet approach initially and getting the body into a state of ketosis, then once the goal has been attained i gradually introduce 'sensible' carb plans (the main mistake with ketosis diets is that carbs arent gradually re-introduced). another poster was worried about appetite etc, thats were motivation comes in, its not easy and trends and habits have to be addressed. appetite can also be controlled by eating less more often.
what people have to understand is that its a lifelong commitment to eat properly and keep the weight off, in short its a lifestyle change.

ive had success with this many times

pixiebob

closeline wrote: »

Thanks for all the replys lads. Hopefully I can take them on and use them to my advantage. I exercis a lot. 2 nights of indoor soccer in the week and 2/3 other nights doing cardio in the gym or just running around a field. Im in college so I get porridge in the college as much as possible in the mornings. I usually get a dinner there too...It could be pasta, soup, chicken etc...the odd day if I am running late i would get a roll. When I go home I would always eat something big like a dinner or supper. It is just the eating in between. Even after eating a dinner I could go to the shop in college and buy something unhealthy. Hopefully I can replace the crap stuff by eating more fruit and drinking more water. Is there anything else that ye would suggest as a snack instead of fruit?? Also, eating late at night seems a big problem. I find it very hard to go to sleep hungry but maybe I can change this over the next couple of months. Is it possible to lose a kg by Christmas if I do this right??

take a look at this and do the calculations:
http://calorieline.com/tools/tdee

you just need to sit down and workout the figures and count cals and then after a short period of trial and error you can get more exact with weighing out foods. without knowing the figures is akin to driving a car with a faulty fuel gauge, you dont know how far its going to go.

pixiebob

a quick snippet from Lyle McDonald to support my point,he is widely respected in this field:

Carbs are rarely converted to fat and stored as such
When you eat more carbs you burn more carbs and less fat; eat less carbs and you burn less carbs and more fat
Protein is basically never going to be converted to fat and stored as such
When you eat more protein, you burn more protein (and by extension, less carbs and less fat); eat less protein and you burn less protein (and by extension, more carbs and more fat)
Ingested dietary fat is primarily stored, eating more of it doesn’t impact on fat oxidation to a significant degree

Mellor

I think you've misunderstood the questions.

Do you think that the net loss will be greater if an individual does cardio before eating? yes Obviously, assuming that calorie intake and output is the same. Why? thats why you alter calorie input, to create a deficit

I was refering to the output and input beign the same in both fasted state and not fasted.
ie same calories eaten, same excercise, you suggested fasted will result in a greater loss. I asked why.

Do you think that intensity might suffer due to being fasted?no, its not high intensity work and as a matter of fact, the subject will experience greater energy levels as fat (stored energy) gets tapped into. in stark contrast, ive performed powerlifting routines, working up to 250kg dlifts, fasted in the morn

I never mentinoed high intensity.
Fat isn't the only form of stored energy.
Some people (not everyone, not me) find that they can't work out at even a moderate intensity fasted.
When workign up to a max DL, fasted or not. I doubt you were working solely off fat stores.

You mentioned a heart rate for burning bf. I agree that more of you energy will come from body fat, but why does it matter where it comes from at that exact time. because the point is to use the fat for fuel The body will regulate afterward. you'll still have burned off fat and you manipulate diet to prevent the body from self regulating Unused food sketchy description. j/k and excess glycogen will become fat, adjusting TDEE will minimalise this, lower carb intake and increase protein intake. its a slow process of trial and error, it certainly doesnt happen overnight or if we are buring all our glycogen, then body must use fat to get through the rest of the day.

You didn't answer the question. The last line contradicts youself.

To simplify, for the same calorie comsuption (a deficit), in the same proportions, if doesn't matter if you are burning off fat stores or comsumed energy during excercise, as the body will be forced to use the other to get through the rest of the day. Do you agree

Working at a higher heart rate will result in more calories burned, assuming the same intake, i'd expect this to result in more fat lost. based on calories in vrs calories out. higher intensity (cardio fitness) requires more carb intake, we are trying to burning fat here and we are hitting it directly and head on, so we will leave cardio fitness until we've met the first goal. mixed intensity is fine for maintenance but not ideal for fat loss in my experience

Again ignoring the question. Even creating a strawman. I never said very high intensitys or implied high level of cardio fitness.

Again to simplfy.
Mary goes for a jog in the moring, fasted, burning 500 cals.
Susan goes in the after noon, she is able for a higher pace due to refueling, she burns 600 cals.

Their BMR and calorie intake and therefore deficit is idenical. Who loses more fat.

Why should a person who is trying to lose weight take a protein befoee bed. This is fine if the intake is the same, but in my opinion a person who struggles to eat the correct amount is less likely to eat a deficit if they add a meal/snack before bed. say a person eats a meal at 2000 and goes to bed at 0000 and gets up at 0800, thats 12hrs fasted and slows metabolism down, which is not what we want, a slow casein based protein (cottage cheese or powered supps) will drip feed the body roughly over an 8hr period

Incorrect. The meal that is taken in at 8pm (2000 :rolleyes:) will be digesting for hours. The digestive system is working while we sleep. The actual fast time is very little. We won't go catabolic over an hour or two, and any change is metabolism is minor, certainly less than an additional meal provides.


All of your intentions are good, and based on what appears to be good theories. Fasted state, and fat burnign zones to target body fat. But the differences they make are minor. Those kinda of "weight loss secrets" are availible on endless websites. and they aren't the reason anybody is being held back. If somebody is struggling to lose weight its not because they are aren't fasting before training or skipping a caesin shake at night.

All that really matters is that you creat a deficit, eat well, and excercise well.

Mellor

pixiebob wrote: »

a quick snippet from Lyle McDonald to support my point,he is widely respected in this field:

Carbs are rarely converted to fat and stored as such
When you eat more carbs you burn more carbs and less fat; eat less carbs and you burn less carbs and more fat
Protein is basically never going to be converted to fat and stored as such
When you eat more protein, you burn more protein (and by extension, less carbs and less fat); eat less protein and you burn less protein (and by extension, more carbs and more fat)
Ingested dietary fat is primarily stored, eating more of it doesn’t impact on fat oxidation to a significant degree

I didn't disagree with anything remotely related to diet tips. High protein, low carb sounds fien to me. Although its really depends on the person.

I agree with referring to Lyle for these things.

From the same article, which explains it better imo

1.Excess dietary fat is directly stored as fat
2.Excess dietary carbs increases carb oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
3.Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat

Edit:
I should add, I misphrased something earlier. When I said excess food will be turned to fat I mistyped. We were talking in deficits so obviously there's no excess.

What I meant to say, (in simple terms)
Exercise fasted, burn fat, burn food rest of day
Exercise fueled up, burn glycogen, burn fat the rest of the day.

As I said , I don't disagree with what your saying, but I don't think it's as important as you ate making out.

Jeebz

First of all, none of my advise comes from a bloody magazine, especially not a fitness magazine, purely on the basis of anything you have to pay for, will give you a bogus amount of advise, simply to get money. Common if you buy 5 different magazines i guarantee you, theres going to be quite a bit if conflicting opinions and facts

A government chart, oh yes I am sorry I am using a chart thats been used for decades by actual medical personnel...

And 21 Century? Seriously who cares about bloody 21 century methods, human evolution hasnt changed to the point where running, swimming or a bit of dietary know how isn't going to get your body into shape. For goodness sake you don't need to spend an ass load of money for a body, hell you dont have to go to a damn gym to get a decent body. If you're that serious about weight and or muscle building then yes, I would suggest a good physical therapist. But dont bust me for using and old method... just cause its old doesnt mean it doesn't work.

Far as the advice I give, I followed it from a decent source, and it sure as hell hasn't done me any harm, matter of fact its worked better for me then anything else I've been told about diet and muscle building

Doug Cartel

Pixiebob, I was under the impression that this fasted cardio thing was a myth, do you have any evidence to support it?

Aside from appeals to authority and maybe an anecdote or two.

Hanley

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Pixiebob, I was under the impression that this fasted cardio thing was a myth, do you have any evidence to support it?

Aside from appeals to authority and maybe an anecdote or two.

Yup I'd like to see this too.

And I'd like to see it in the context of a kcal controlled diet, assuming adequate protein intake. I'm just curious if there's some statistically significant basis for it.

Like I won't accept hunger blunting etc etc as a reason because they're ancillary effects. What I want to see is some study that shows a significant increase in fat loss from fasted morning cardio against cardio done at a normal time, when both diet/kcals and exercise levels are controlled.

pixiebob wrote: »

bolds

man you really need to come into the 21st century, stop using government data as fact and get some real life experience behind you.

what are your academical credentials and sports experience to support your stance?
ive been doing this 20yrs in a sporting capacity and have worked in the field for a considerable amount of those 20yrs. im also 3rd level academically qualified, although i will say its experience that counts.
ive helped countless clients achieve their goals through my described methods.

im not trying to bust your chops but i see an alarming rate of bad advice flowing through this forum, Men's Health magazine springs to mind, unfortunatley. rem there are ppl on here who will take the 'advice' at literal meaning and still end up going around in circles.

there are basic guidelines yes, but fitness is not full of steadfast rules and black and white do's and dont's, there are many variables and unless you've experienced this first hand then you cant possible know.

You may be highly qualified, but your attitude stinks.

THis is a discussion forum, not a "shut up and listen to me" forum. And like it or not, no one here knows you from Adam. You sound like you know what you're talking about, but any bozo can create an internet persona without ever training someone. Hell there's a lot of trainers making a ton of money thru that exact method!!

And I actually agree with the majority of what you're saying, so it's not that. Some of the stuff you see put up here IS terrible.

shadowcomplex

pixiebob wrote: »

a quick snippet from Lyle McDonald to support my point,he is widely respected in this field:

Carbs are rarely converted to fat and stored as such
When you eat more carbs you burn more carbs and less fat; eat less carbs and you burn less carbs and more fat
Protein is basically never going to be converted to fat and stored as such
When you eat more protein, you burn more protein (and by extension, less carbs and less fat); eat less protein and you burn less protein (and by extension, more carbs and more fat)
Ingested dietary fat is primarily stored, eating more of it doesn’t impact on fat oxidation to a significant degree

Any macro nutrient whether its carbs, protein or fat can be stored as fat if eaten in excess, afterall they all have calories

Doug Cartel

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Any macro nutrient whether its carbs, protein or fat can be stored as fat if eaten in excess, afterall they all have calories

I can't find it, but there was a thread on this a while ago.

pixiebob

i tell you what, you mods stick to playing internet police and i'll stick to what i know and have put into practice. oh, and Mellor i never contradicted myself, it was your point that was mistakenly highlighted and as well as that, try wording questions more clearly if you want an exact answer.

you've talk so much rubbish on here you've actually began to believe it yourself. fair play, keep on diluting fact with fiction to up your post counts lol

pixiebob

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Any macro nutrient whether its carbs, protein or fat can be stored as fat if eaten in excess, afterall they all have calories

no carbs and protein cannot be stored as fat, they inhibit fat being used as energy. look up fat oxidation and how protein and carbs can interfere .

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I can't find it, but there was a thread on this a while ago.

hmmm, mod titles come easy around here, they're obviously not based on knowledge.

Hanley

pixiebob wrote: »

hmmm, mod titles come easy around here, they're obviously not based on knowledge.

Ummm... he's the mod of a martial arts forum?

Mellor's mod of a construction forum.....

Neither of which require detailed knowledge of fat oxidation. As nice as it would be to have

pixiebob

Hanley wrote: »

Ummm... he's the mod of a martial arts forum?

Mellor's mod of a construction forum.....

Neither of which require detailed knowledge of fat oxidation. As nice as it would be to have

yeah? maybe they should stick to those areas then :rolleyes:

Hanley

pixiebob wrote: »

yeah? maybe they should stick to those areas then :rolleyes:

I demand you be made moderator of this forum.

Can I get a second?

pixiebob

Hanley wrote: »

I demand you be made moderator of this forum.

Can I get a second?

ah go and fvck yourself you stupid little twerp. bunch of fvckin clueless tossers, there you can all snigger around the ban button now, dickheads

Brian?

pixiebob wrote: »

hmmm, mod titles come easy around here, they're obviously not based on knowledge.

I'm a mod of this forum, less of the personal digs please. Your knowledge of fat oxidisation is irrelevant if you are going to be rude to other forum members.

Brian?

pixiebob wrote: »

ah go and fvck yourself you stupid little twerp. bunch of fvckin clueless tossers, there you can all snigger around the ban button now, dickheads

Ah well done. You are banned for a week.

Gummy Panda

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Pixiebob, I was under the impression that this fasted cardio thing was a myth, do you have any evidence to support it?

Aside from appeals to authority and maybe an anecdote or two.

To be honest, if you're over 15% bf does it really matter?

Cardio fasted or feed will help regardless.

shadowcomplex

pixiebob wrote: »

no carbs and protein cannot be stored as fat, they inhibit fat being used as energy. look up fat oxidation and how protein and carbs can interfere .



hmmm, mod titles come easy around here, they're obviously not based on knowledge.

Little point replying to this now considering the poster is banned but the above statment is so ridiculous, carbs are one of the main reasons people have a weight problem but I don't subcribe to demonising them either

Hanley

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Little point replying to this now considering the poster is banned but the above statment is so ridiculous, carbs are one of the main reasons people have a weight problem but I don't subcribe to demonising them either

You're missing his point.... The position is not "you won't get fatter" it's that they carbs you ingest will be used for energy, or your blood glucose levels will become chronically elevated and no fatty acid will be metabolised for energy becuase there'll always be a constant supply of energy in the form of elevatd blood glucose levels.

As a result, any fat you do ingest goes straight to fat stores. Thus you get fatter, but the carbs aren't technically being stored as fat.

It's something Lyle's written about a lot and it's a very hard concept to reconcile but I think there's truth in it.

Oryx

While this argument is all very interesting, what the smarter of you seem to forget, is that it is of absolutely no help whatsoever to someone with scant knowledge of nutrition or training. All an in depth discussion like this does is alienate that person and make them think this is all too complicated to grasp. For someone trying to begin losing weight, simplicity is key.

Hanley

Oryx wrote: »

While this argument is all very interesting, what the smarter of you seem to forget, is that it is of absolutely no help whatsoever to someone with scant knowledge of nutrition or training. All an in depth discussion like this does is alienate that person and make them think this is all too complicated to grasp. For someone trying to begin losing weight, simplicity is key.

If we said "stop eating chocolate bars and crisps, eat meat and veg, nuts and seeds, fruit, a little starch and no sugar for a month and come back to us then" it'd be a very short thread.

heavyballs

I'm no expert at all so just wanted to give the op a quick summery of my fat loss journey over the past 3 months
Stepped on the scales July 20,14 st 4,I'm 5'9,that scared the crap out of me,
Fistly,i played football for years but gave up 10 years ago but i decided to go back this year so that helps with fitness.

I do 2 6 mile runs a week between 40-42 mins(very hilly course) and 1 12 mile around 1hr 30,also i do 2 morning fast sessions before breakfast,found this site on the net but can't remember the name,basically 30 second run at 90% followed by a 90 run at 30-40% and repeat 6-10 times depending on how the body is

diet wise i still eat crap,just less and a lot more veg and home made soups than before,and i've almost giving up drink,use to drink a lot at home,now i just have 2-3 pints a week

my weight now is 12st 8 and that's pretty much perfect for my build,so i know there's a lot of things in here are probably defo no-no's but it has worked for me anyway and i feel super compared to before,i think tipping over 14st on the scales was the wake up i needed

Oryx

Hanley wrote: »

If we said "stop eating chocolate bars and crisps, eat meat and veg, nuts and seeds, fruit, a little starch and no sugar for a month and come back to us then" it'd be a very short thread.

Makes a lot more sense to a lay person than a debate on fat oxidation.

Hanley

Oryx wrote: »

Makes a lot more sense to a lay person than a debate on fat oxidation.

Mneh, he's already been told to stop eating poorly. There's a wealth of information in the stickies for people to read. The same question occurs again and again. It's hardly fair to chatsise the regular members who contribute a lot when an interesting tangent to the discussion comes up?

shadowcomplex

Hanley wrote: »

If we said "stop eating chocolate bars and crisps, eat meat and veg, nuts and seeds, fruit, a little starch and no sugar for a month and come back to us then" it'd be a very short thread.

Even the paleo diet has to obey the law of calorie restriction

Hanley

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Even the paleo diet has to obey the law of calorie restriction

It does, but it's significantly more difficult to over-eat on the things listed than on carbs. Which is where a big part of the diet is won and lost. I've read a lot recently that shows given a constant protein intake, the split between fats and carbs have very little effect on weight loss given a sufficient kcal deficit.

In the real world tho, the adherence is the problem with people more likely to overeat because of carbs. Thus the issue isn't carbs per say, it's how they effect people and lead to increased kcal intake.

Mellor

pixiebob wrote: »

i tell you what, you mods stick to playing internet police and i'll stick to what i know and have put into practice. oh, and Mellor i never contradicted myself, it was your point that was mistakenly highlighted and as well as that, try wording questions more clearly if you want an exact answer.

you've talk so much rubbish on here you've actually began to believe it yourself. fair play, keep on diluting fact with fiction to up your post counts lol

You post I refered to agree with my previous point, hence the it contradicted your disagreeing.

I've already said that I don't disagree with what you are saying. It's the importance to are giving to some parts, and your general attitude. Which is pretty surprising given you work in such a personal industry.

pixiebob wrote: »

no carbs and protein cannot be stored as fat, they inhibit fat being used as energy. look up fat oxidation and how protein and carbs can interfere

As mentioned, i'm a mod of construction, and my knowledge in physiology is purely casual, but i have read a bit on fat oxidation.
And you are correct that excess carbs and protein interfer with fat oxidation, causing more dietary fat to be directly stored, I don't believe i said any different either. But excessive carbs can be stored as fat. It very rarely happens due to efficency, but it can happen. It's called de novo lipogenesis, it happens when excessive carbs are continaully consumed and glycogen is full (not easy to do), carbs have no where to go other than become fat. Or when a person is pre-diabetic.

But most importantly, when fat in >10% of dietary intake, the body increases de novo lipogenesis. So the cards become fat then. If you want a source, read the Lyle McDonald page I quoted above.

You obviously have a lot of knowledge to offer. I know what you meant above in general, and i didn't disagree with most of it. But the i'm right you're wrong attitude is pointless.

Hanley wrote: »

You're missing his point.... The position is not "you won't get fatter" it's that they carbs you ingest will be used for energy, or your blood glucose levels will become chronically elevated and no fatty acid will be metabolised for energy becuase there'll always be a constant supply of energy in the form of elevatd blood glucose levels.

As a result, any fat you do ingest goes straight to fat stores. Thus you get fatter, but the carbs aren't technically being stored as fat.

It's something Lyle's written about a lot and it's a very hard concept to reconcile but I think there's truth in it.

It makes sense when you think about it really. The body is an efficient machine, if the easiest option is to burn all the carbs, and store all the fat thats what it will do. Makes no sense to burn the fat, then convert the carbs to fat to store. Even if carbs are stored, storing as glycogen is easier. Fat conversion is the last option.

Lyle's a pedant, so he phrases things very accurately from a physiologic point of view. Then he explains them. But when people quote a section, they lose the explaination. So people then take them up wrong. you also lose the exceptions that I've quoted above.