Cyclists on M8 (again)

AugustusMinimus

Winter's approaching. The clocks had been put back an hour. Sunday evening and it was quite dark.

As anyone on scene can attest to, there was also a very thick blanket of fog between Watergrasshill and Glanmire on the M8. Visibility was awful.

Low and behold, here be driving on the M8 when all of a sudden, I see a cyclist in the breakdown lane (only barely saw him, even if he had a tiny red light on the back).

I must say, what sort of an idiot is this guy. Visibility was truly awful. For the first time ever, I gave Glanmire Garda station a ring to report cyclists on this stretch of motorway. This must be the 10th time more I've seen cyclists there.

Eventhough they were breaking the law all those other times, this is the first time I believed whoever they were, were acting in an utterly wreckless fashion. (Not insinuating it is the same cyclists all the time btw)

I get the feeling my call was in vain and nothing much was done about it sadly.

heate

All a driver should actually be on the lookout for on a motorway is other qualified vehicles that is vehicles which are legally allowed enter a motorway

AugustusMinimus

I was driving around 50mph which was more than enough to slow down as other cars rear lights (even without fog lamps on) were powerful enough to safely drive at this speed.

On the other hand, a battery power bicycle rear light is not near as powerful or as piercing as a car rear light. You also have a much higher closing speed with a cyclists leading to less time to react due to the cyclists moving slower than a car would be.

Should I have assumed that there would be a suicidical rider on the motorway. To extrapolate further, should I have also assumed there was a drunk man sleeping in the driving lane of the motorway ?

We all have to make assumptions and my assmumption that there shouldn't be cyclists on this motorway (given the fog, although I expect them all the time when there isn't) was a valid presumption.

Cuddlesworth

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Hows that then ?

I was driving around 50mph which was more than enough to slow down as other cars rear lights (even without fog lamps on) were powerful enough to safely drive at this speed.

At 80kph in heavy fog conditions the only thing you would be able to react to is other car lights. You are absolutely unprepared for any other situation because of your complete lack of visibility. This is Ireland, we have a slew of drivers who don't bother turning on lights, tractors who do 20kph with trailers that have no lights or reflectors and cyclists who choose to cycle on the motorway. Since you passed a cyclist with no time to react, you were travelling to fast for the conditions.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

On the other hand, a battery power bicycle rear light is not near as powerful or as piercing as a car rear light. You also have a much higher closing speed with a cyclists leading to less time to react due to the cyclists moving slower than a car would be.

Which is why you slow down if you don't have the visibility.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Should I have assumed that there would be a suicidical rider on the motorway. To extrapolate further, should I have also assumed there was a drunk man sleeping in the driving lane of the motorway ?

A drunk man is a acceptable risk, its a rare enough occasion for it to be negligible. A geriatric doing 30kph with no lights sadly isn't. Neither is a tractor or a cyclist.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

We all have to make assumptions and my assmumption that there shouldn't be cyclists on this motorway (given the fog, although I expect them all the time when there isn't) was a valid presumption.

You can't say its a valid presumption when you admit in your opening post that you regularly see cyclists on the motorway.

I know I'm going to be seen as the bad guy here, because as a motoring forum you automatically side against the cyclist on the motorway. But you were driving blind.

AugustusMinimus

Q. Do you have any idea what the coniditions were like ?
A. No

Q. Are you going off topic ?
A. Yes

If you want to complain about my driving (of which you know very little about) go start your own bloody thread.

Cuddlesworth

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Q. Do you have any idea what the coniditions were like ?
A. No

You described them adequately thanks.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Q. Are you going off topic ?
A. Yes

Seems pretty on topic to me.

I like the ninja edit, I suggest reading up on what a forum actually is.

Cookie_Monster

heate wrote: »

All a driver should actually be on the lookout for on a motorway is other qualified vehicles that is vehicles which are legally allowed enter a motorway

Expect the unexpected.

Fundamental basic principle of driving...

Stark

heate wrote: »

All a driver should actually be on the lookout for on a motorway is other qualified vehicles that is vehicles which are legally allowed enter a motorway

That's the ideal world scenario. In reality, there's no road where you can completely switch your brain off. There was a deer on the M1 this morning for example despite animals on the motorway being illegal. The breakdown lane in particular could have broken down cars without lights and people walking to emergency phones.

I'm reminded of the M7 a few years ago when there was heavy fog and complete carnage as people didn't leave themselves enough time to react to things that were outside their field of visibility.

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

................ Visibility was truly awful. .................

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

..........
I was driving around 50mph .................

If visibility was truly awful than I would think 50mph was far too fast.
If 50mph wasn't too fast than visibility couldn't have been that bad

barura

Hey, maybe I'm being a little too kind hearted here, but if conditions were so bad, why not give them a lift to where there going? Keeps them off the road and then you can lecture them in person, if you so wish. If they're training for something on the other hand.... Well, there's devotion and then there is blind stupidity. On the other hand, if they cannot afford a car, I'm sure a lift in those conditions would not go unwelcome.

EPM

Thread cleaned up.

Try keep this on topic, i.e. the use of the illegal use of the motorway in poor conditions.

This is not an anti-cyclist thread, or have a go at the OP thread either.

Keep this in mind before posting.

Stark

barura wrote: »

Hey, maybe I'm being a little too kind hearted here, but if conditions were so bad, why not give them a lift to where there going? Keeps them off the road and then you can lecture them in person, if you so wish. If they're training for something on the other hand.... Well, there's devotion and then there is blind stupidity. On the other hand, if they cannot afford a car, I'm sure a lift in those conditions would not go unwelcome.

They can cycle through Watergrasshill/Glanmire if they're commuting and can't afford a car. Regardless of the safety/duty of care arguments, it's still illegal for them to be on the motorway. The OP's responsibility goes as far as driving according to the conditions, not offering lifts to illegal motorway users.

Cookie_Monster

Stark wrote: »

They can cycle through Watergrasshill/Glanmire if they're commuting and can't afford a car.

why do you assume they can't afford a car?

EPM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why do you assume they can't afford a car?

Does it matter? Keep it on topic from here on in or there will be infractions.

krissovo

I think cyclists in the whole area are a danger to themselves. The road between Watergrasshill and Fermoy often has cyclists 4 abreast in poor conditions with them unwilling to move into single file when a car comes up behind them.

AugustusMinimus

barura wrote: »

Hey, maybe I'm being a little too kind hearted here, but if conditions were so bad, why not give them a lift to where there going? Keeps them off the road and then you can lecture them in person, if you so wish. If they're training for something on the other hand.... Well, there's devotion and then there is blind stupidity. On the other hand, if they cannot afford a car, I'm sure a lift in those conditions would not go unwelcome.

1. Illegal to stop on a motorway.
2. No space in the car for the bike.

AugustusMinimus

RoverJames wrote: »

If visibility was truly awful than I would think 50mph was far too fast.
If 50mph wasn't too fast than visibility couldn't have been that bad

Well, in my mind, 50mph was an adequate reduction in speed. Gave me plenty of time to adjust my speed when I came up a car in front of me.

However, it was not an adequate speed if the cyclist had been in the driving lane. However, its a fanciful suggestion that I should have adjusted my speed in anticipation of a cyclist being on a motorway, in the dark in fog.

If I had reduced my speed to what would have been necessary in such an instnace, I almost certainly would have been rear ended by someone else. I'd imagine 20mph would have been the necessary speed in my case to avoid rear ending that cyclist.


Back to the topic at hand. That particular stretch of motorway is particularly bad for cyclists. Saturday morning at about 9AM, there is practically always 2 cyclists heading from Glanmire to Watergrasshill in the breakdown lane. Whether they are the same two each morning, I'm not sure, but I would have to assume so.

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

................. However, its a fanciful suggestion that I should have adjusted my speed in anticipation of a cyclist being on a motorway, in the dark in fog..................

I agree, but if it was ok to travel at 50mph the visibility can't have been that bad, truly awful visibility when fog is concerned at night would have me travelling at 10/15mph. If you can safely travel at 50mph it can't have been that bad in my view

Iwannahurl

"Expect the unexpected".

Perhaps it is only in Ireland, where motorways are new-fangled and cyclists (such as yours truly) and considered eccentric, that cyclists are to be "expected" on roads that they are sensibly banned from!

My only gripe with the OP was that he didn't report all the other idiot cyclists at every opportunity.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

For the first time ever, I gave Glanmire Garda station a ring to report cyclists on this stretch of motorway. This must be the 10th time more I've seen cyclists there.

AugustusMinimus

Iwannahurl wrote: »

"Expect the unexpected".

Perhaps it is only in Ireland, where motorways are new-fangled and cyclists (such as yours truly) and considered eccentric, that cyclists are to be "expected" on roads that they are sensibly banned from!

My only gripe with the OP was that he didn't report all the other idiot cyclists at every opportunity.

Indeed. Prob should have rang the other times too.

This time I felt the person was truly endangering themselves and others by their actions though.

Matt Simis

All I can add is that there was at least one cyclist on the M3 today too. Weather conditions fine which meant cars doing the correct motorway speed, which left a staggering difference in speed between cyclist and car as well as the huge potential for dangerous buffeting from passing HGVs.

Im replaying the tyre blowout threads that people posted where an emergency pull over into the emergency lane would be required.. now becomes so much more difficult. And how do they cross over the merging lane for off ramps, considering cars are merging from one lane to the off ramp at speed!? Totally crazy.

Amtmann

Iwannahurl wrote: »

My only gripe with the OP was that he didn't report all the other idiot cyclists at every opportunity.

As a regular M8 user, I have reported (and continue to report) the cyclists that I see every single week on the M8 between Watergrasshill and Glanmire. It makes no difference whatsoever. It's a waste of money. The guards at Glanmire Garda station (0214821002) simply do not give a damn.

Blazer

krissovo wrote: »

I think cyclists in the whole area are a danger to themselves. The road between Watergrasshill and Fermoy often has cyclists 4 abreast in poor conditions with them unwilling to move into single file when a car comes up behind them.

^^
I can never understand this mentality...I cycle myself and the first thing I do is cycle one abreast as I've no intention of being knocked down.
I think these gimps suffer from the mentality known as "dickhead"

aujopimur

I'v seen and reported these irresponsable pr1cks cycling on the M8 on several occasions, but the problem persists.

CiniO

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Expect the unexpected.

Fundamental basic principle of driving...

Obviously true.
But expecting cyclist on the motorway is beyond my imagination.
I've never seen such thing in my life.
I would expect it the same much as seeing UFO on the way home.

Honey-ec

CiniO wrote: »

Obviously true.
But expecting cyclist on the motorway is beyond my imagination.

You'd think the same about someone reversing up the hard shoulder of a motorway because they've missed their exit, but I've seen it. Twice.

bad2dabone

Anyone cycling on a motorway has a deathwish in my opinion. Insane.

EPM

Honey-ec wrote: »

You'd think the same about someone reversing up the hard shoulder of a motorway because they've missed their exit, but I've seen it. Twice.

3 car crash on M7 Saturday lunchtime. Saw about 20 do it!

-Corkie-

I have witnessed these cyclists on the M8 several times sometimes cycling two abreast very near the driving lane. I have rang the AGS in Glanmire too but they dont give two hoots. They will care when one of them ends up under a truck or a car.

Why in gods name can they not use the N8 or whatever its called now. That flipping road is empty all the time...

yllw.ldbttr

One of these cyclists is a repeat offender, I live in the area and I've seen him on the motorway at least 20 or more times.

I've blown the horn at him a few times, I would really like to stop and say it to him, but I'm not going to further endanger other road users just to try educate what I can only describe as one ignorant cyclist.
He clearly knows what he is doing and I can only assume that he is of the opinion that he is above the law.

As I mentioned before, I've seen cyclists roll past cops (doing speed checks) on this stretch of motorway, the cops couldn't give a damn... no point in ringing the local garda station.

Amtmann

I raised this matter in the Emergency Services forum a while back and was told by one user that I couldn't possibly know that the Guards don't prosecute these cyclists. Technically true; but Glanmire and Watergrasshill are small and it's the same cohort of individuals continuously flouting the law for the past two years. If the Guards had ever done anything about it, the problem would have stopped by now.
So, yes, I think the Guards there turn a blind eye. Scandalous. When a fatality does occur (as it inevitably will), I'll have no problem linking to all of the relevant posts on Boards.ie in an email to journalists. Threads like this are a valuable chronicle of Garda inaction.

-Corkie-

I asked him one day was he going to do anything about it and he said that he was too busy. I got quite annoyed with him and asked him for his name and he hung up the phone..

Hooch

Tremelo wrote: »

As a regular M8 user, I have reported (and continue to report) the cyclists that I see every single week on the M8 between Watergrasshill and Glanmire. It makes no difference whatsoever. It's a waste of money. The guards at Glanmire Garda station (0214821002) simply do not give a damn.

Next time phone Fermoy which is the Divisional control. Report the matter and ask them for a call back. All called to a divisional HQ are logged and require a "result" of the call.

I'm quite sure it's not ignored all the time but I suspect Glanmire is quite a busy station being where it is. If said cyclist is gone off the motorway there is little a Garda can do. But please do continue to call in about it, one of these days there will be a serious collision on a motorway with cyclists (and runners which seem to be all over the M7!!)

L1011

barura wrote: »

Hey, maybe I'm being a little too kind hearted here, but if conditions were so bad, why not give them a lift to where there going? Keeps them off the road and then you can lecture them in person, if you so wish. If they're training for something on the other hand.... Well, there's devotion and then there is blind stupidity. On the other hand, if they cannot afford a car, I'm sure a lift in those conditions would not go unwelcome.

The cyclists on this section are, virtually always, kitted up to the nines. Not poor people cycling to work, but repeatly criminal devoted cyclists.

I have Glamire station's number in my Parrot at this stage...

Realistically the Guards need to start doing random patrols and actually arresting these people, the info might then seep out through their clubs not to do it. However, I believe Glanmire has a lot of problems as goes resources and manpower, there's been some articles in the papers about problems with the building at least.

Tremelo

Tremelo wrote: »

I raised this matter in the Emergency Services forum a while back and was told by one user that I couldn't possibly know that the Guards don't prosecute these cyclists. ................

In fairness the folk over there would be quick to come out with that theory.

CiniO

Honey-ec wrote: »

You'd think the same about someone reversing up the hard shoulder of a motorway because they've missed their exit, but I've seen it. Twice.

I've seen it as well.
I've seen as well once someone driving into the motorway (on M4 near Dublin) through the exit. He was going against the traffic.

dr.fuzzenstein

As a young and dumb teenager I once ended up hitch-hiking on a UK motorway (yes, I know, dumb).
Within 20 minutes a police bike turned up, drove me off the motorway and I was given a stern lecture.
If you stop on the hard shoulder in Germany, you could be asked just what the hell you're doing and will receive a fine if you've run out of petrol.
As for cyclists on the Autobahn, I couldn't even imagine what would happen, since this occurrence is about as likely as Angela Merkel writing off all of Ireland's debt and giving us a few million as a gift on top.
I have heard a few times about pedestrians on the Autobahn, when that does happen, every radio station will broadcast an emergency message immediately, i.e. whatever is on, news, music, etc... will get interrupted to play that message.
All car radios are programmed to automatically play this message, even if it is on another station, the radio will tune into the emergency broadcast by itself.
Here?
No one seems to care, least of all the Gards, nothing gets done and nothing will ever get done.
I have honestly never seen such a lackadaisical police force.
Tax, Insurance, Graaaand!

EPM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

As a young and dumb teenager I once ended up hitch-hiking on a UK motorway (yes, I know, dumb).
Within 20 minutes a police bike turned up, drove me off the motorway and I was given a stern lecture.
If you stop on the hard shoulder in Germany, you could be asked just what the hell you're doing and will receive a fine if you've run out of petrol.
As for cyclists on the Autobahn, I couldn't even imagine what would happen, since this occurrence is about as likely as Angela Merkel writing off all of Ireland's debt and giving us a few million as a gift on top.
I have heard a few times about pedestrians on the Autobahn, when that does happen, every radio station will broadcast an emergency message immediately, i.e. whatever is on, news, music, etc... will get interrupted to play that message.
All car radios are programmed to automatically play this message, even if it is on another station, the radio will tune into the emergency broadcast by itself.
Here?
No one seems to care, least of all the Gards, nothing gets done and nothing will ever get done.
I have honestly never seen such a lackadaisical police force.
Tax, Insurance, Graaaand!

The traffic facility isn't available in this country. That's why you don't have announcements.

I'd love to know how the police are lackadaisical when a) most people wouldn't make the call, b) the offender may well be gone by the time they get to them and c) they can't be expected to be everywhere. This familiar it's all the guards fault is tired and often completely overplayed. It also ignores the fact that as a nation we ignore rules that don't suit us.

L1011

EPM wrote: »

The traffic facility isn't available in this country. That's why you don't have announcements.

It is. Nobody uses it any more. Some of the local stations did in the past. There's absolutely no BAI restriction on using it although I suspect you'd have a LOT of confused people if you did start.

EPM

MYOB wrote: »

It is. Nobody uses it any more. Some of the local stations did in the past. There's absolutely no BAI restriction on using it although I suspect you'd have a LOT of confused people if you did start.

That's what I meant. Although I often remember it just changing the station and there being no announcement too:D

Its a very useful function in the UK where its used extensively. Saved me a few times.

L1011

EPM wrote: »

That's what I meant. Although I often remember it just changing the station and there being no announcement too:D

Its a very useful function in the UK where its used extensively. Saved me a few times.

Last time I was in the UK with someone else driving they nearly had a heart attack on the A55 when the radio jumped from something near silent (aux input from an off mp3 player or something) to a Radio Merseyside announcement. Had never heard a TA announcement before!

dr.fuzzenstein

EPM wrote: »

The traffic facility isn't available in this country. That's why you don't have announcements.

I'd love to know how the police are lackadaisical when a) most people wouldn't make the call, b) the offender may well be gone by the time they get to them and c) they can't be expected to be everywhere. This familiar it's all the guards fault is tired and often completely overplayed. It also ignores the fact that as a nation we ignore rules that don't suit us.

Oh, I'm well used to that one.;)
But if you watch UK traffic programs, you will often see cars being pulled over by the rozzers for no particular reason, or because they strayed over the lines, or because they don't like the look of it.
Here I've seen cars that are held together with baling twine, cars going near sideways (crabbing) due to some major structural fault, cars spewing James Bond style smoke screens, cars that can be heard in the next county due to broken exhaust, I've seen exhausts hanging off and scraping on the road, trailing sparks, cars doing 30 km/h half on the hard shoulder, in short stuff I haven't seen even in Romania, Morocco, etc...
One might be forgiven that the law enforcement attitude is somewhat forgiving here.
That and the fact that several people on this thread have pointed out that several complaints have been made about repeat offenders cycling a stretch of motorway and nothing was ever done.
I did once see a Gard take action though.
It was on the new Ennis interchange where a farmer was cycling along the middle barrier in the wrong direction.
He was having a stand up, screaming row with a copper who was trying to tell him he can't do that.:D
Funniest thing ever.
But seriously, it's very dangerous and has to be stopped, don't want to say won't someone think of the children, but this is a no brainer.

glic71rods46t0

You dont see it much on the M1 but I recently encountered a cyclist in the driving lane overtaking a broken down artic.
As another poster said its the lycra clad "pseudo professional" cyclists you see doing crazy things on the roads/motorways

Stark

I did encounter a guy on a clapped out mountain bike cycling towards me in the overtaking once on the M1. Luckily he pulled into the central median so I was saved having to scrape bits off my bumper.

MugMugs

Stark wrote: »

I did encounter a guy on a clapped out mountain bike cycling towards me in the overtaking once on the M1. Luckily he pulled into the central median so I was saved having to scrape bits off my bumper.

That could be quite inconvenient alright.

In all the 000's of miles I've done on the M1 I only saw it after Oasis in Slane and he was a pedestrian in need of getting home. He was so off his face he thought I'd brought him to Fairview when I dropped him off in Drogheda town.

Iwannahurl

o41dbl7n3cwsi5 wrote: »

You dont see it much on the M1 but I recently encountered a cyclist in the driving lane overtaking a broken down artic.
As another poster said its the lycra clad "pseudo professional" cyclists you see doing crazy things on the roads/motorways

A superfluity of tight Lycra may be causing blood circulation issues in the brain.

The wearing of "safety" helmets may also be an aggravating factor.



.

EPM

EPM wrote: »

Thread cleaned up.

Try keep this on topic, i.e. the use of the illegal use of the motorway in poor conditions.

This is not an anti-cyclist thread, or have a go at the OP thread either.

Keep this in mind before posting.

EPM wrote: »

Does it matter? Keep it on topic from here on in or there will be infractions.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

A superfluity of tight Lycra may be causing blood circulation issues in the brain.

The wearing of "safety" helmets may also be an aggravating factor.



.

Why can't people read?

Off topic and ignoring on-thread instructions. Warning given.

Macy0161

Cyclists are a fairly regular occurence on the M11 too. Including Northbound on the bridge over the M50 where there isn't even a hard shoulder. However, it's been more walkers the last couple of weeks.

Cookie_Monster

krissovo wrote: »

I think cyclists in the whole area are a danger to themselves. The road between Watergrasshill and Fermoy often has cyclists 4 abreast in poor conditions with them unwilling to move into single file when a car comes up behind them.

there is zero legal obligation* to do this and it's less safe to do so as well.

It's safer to be 2 wide as it makes it harder to casually overtake and forces the motorist to actually think rather than just whizz past.

*though 2 wide max is the law also

Cookie_Monster

Macy0161 wrote: »

Cyclists are a fairly regular occurence on the M11 too. Including Northbound on the bridge over the M50 where there isn't even a hard shoulder. However, it's been more walkers the last couple of weeks.

Was a weekly sighting on Sat and Sun when I was still at home. Fiancée's dad did it all the time too though I refused to whenever out together.

cyclopath2001

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

*though 2 wide max is the law also

Three abreast is permitted if the rider on the outside is overtaking the two on the inside.