rescue dogs been sent to uk?

portgirl123

now guys im not starting this thread for a big argument im just starting it to clear things in my head. im not saying its either wrong or right.

im just wondering why dogs are sent to uk when they are as bad as we are. my cousins kid, well shes 24, works in a big rescue over there, she says its as bad if not worst over there. they are turning away dogs every day, have lists with god knows how many dogs on it. have certain breeds over there that they cant rehome as quick.
just wondering so how come rescues over there come over here, take dogs out of pounds, pay for there transport, vac spaying etc when they have their own problems.
like i said im not saying its right or wrong just wondering the logic of it

Inexile

"just wondering so how come rescues over there come over here, take dogs out of pounds, pay for there transport, vac spaying etc when they have their own problems. "

I volunteer with a rescue and without our UK and European partners the number of dogs we could help would be in 10s rather than 100s.

I dont think the UK rescues pay for this. the Irish ones do and may get a donation, similar to an adoption donation, but it probably doesnt cover the cost of the work done by the rescue.

I suppose ultimately its up the UK rescues themselves on where they get their dogs.

portgirl123

Inexile wrote: »

"just wondering so how come rescues over there come over here, take dogs out of pounds, pay for there transport, vac spaying etc when they have their own problems. "

I volunteer with a rescue and without our UK and European partners the number of dogs we could help would be in 10s rather than 100s.

I dont think the UK rescues pay for this. the Irish ones do and may get a donation, similar to an adoption donation, but it probably doesnt cover the cost of the work done by the rescue.

I suppose ultimately its up the UK rescues themselves on where they get their dogs.

totally agree but i doubt the pounds would have the money to pay for transport etc. the rescues yes alright id say they help with costs but cant see pounds having the money as the dogs only get the basic care while there. still doesnt answer my question why the uk rescues choose to do this. as my cousin kids says they are finding hard to cope with their own dogs and i know her rescue and others that they work with, so she says, would rather their time and effort go into their own. by the way this is what she says not me. i personally dont care as long as dogs are saved.

magentas

IN GENERAL people in the UK are quicker to go the rescue route when getting a dog, Irish people tend to go the route of buying. The UK GENERALLY has more respect for their dogs and sees them as part of their family and not like a disposable object like many Irish people do, therefore they are far less likely to end up in a rescue/pound.

These are just some of the reasons dogs are much more easily and quickly rehomed in the UK and this is why dogs are sent from Ireland to alleviate the rescues here and allow them to help more dogs by freeing up space with the option of rehoming them to the UK.
I was disgusted when I first found out about all the dogs sent over but when it was explained to me I totally understood why.

I speak from first hand experience of having my rescue dogs pups sent over there. She had 7pups. My brother took 1, I re-homed 1 and when we couldn't find homes for the rest and they had to be sent to England, I decided to keep 1 myself. I cried so much giving them away and it broke my heart after watching them all being born and rearing them for nearly 3months but after desperately searching for homes here (with the help and advertising of a major rescue) and been badly let down for people...at 11 weeks they had to go. It's very sad and it's not right but until Ireland cops on and sorts out it's many problems relating to animal welfare and idiots stop breeding unneccessarily and people consider the rescue route, it'll continue to happen. It's not the prefect solution but it is A solution and that's the sad reality of it.

Birdnuts

The stats don't lie - the number of dogs destroyed in this country per head is staggering compared to the UK. The amount of kids going round this area with pedigree pups is an eye opener. Hope their interest in these new toys last beyond Christmas:rolleyes:

Hellrazer

Im going to be watching this thread like a hawk so keep it nice as they always have a habit of ending up badly.

DBB

Two things:
The number of dogs being PTS in Irish pounds has lowered significantly in recent years (it's still far too high). The numbers have dropped because (a) there are more rescue groups taking dogs from pounds, and (b) these rescue groups have outlets for the dogs in the UK and further afield.
Just in case anyone thinks the numbers have dropped because the Irish have suddenly become more responsible dog owners!
By and large, the majority, if not all of the costs are incurred by the Irish rescues, the UK rescues essentially getting lots of dogs from Ireland that have been neutered, vaxed, wormed, chipped etc etc. So, from this perspective, Irish dogs are very attractive to English rescues.

My second point is this, and perhaps serves to answer the OP to some extent:
There is an unequal geographic distribution of rescue dogs in the UK. The northern part of England is generally just as stuffed full of unwanted dogs as Ireland is. However, the southern part of the country tends to have a dearth of rescue dogs (with the exception of Staffies and their crosses), and the mish-mash of different shapes and sizes of dogs coming from Ireland is highly attractive to the dog-adopting English public in the south.
I was told by one rescue that the English consider our dogs to be attractive because they're mostly young, and although often untrained, are generally "unspoiled". They're just unwanted dogs that outstayed their welcome in their Irish homes.
So, most Irish dogs are going to the southern part of England, simply because there is (or certainly was) a good demand for them there.
Hope that helps to clarify.

TooManyDogs

Also bear in mind that alot of the rescues in the UK rarely have puppies. One of the UK rescues that one of my foster litters went to told me that they once put up on their website that they were expecting a litter of pups from Ireland on the following thursday night. The friday morning there were queues of people waiting in the carpark for the centre to open and a couple of fights broke out :eek: That's how rare pups were in that part of England.

Most of the UK rescues don't have dogs under 18 months old and the UK agility community want the rejected Irish working sheep dog pups because the same calibre of pup has to be bought in the UK.

My sister spent a year in the UK looking for a puppy and in the end got one from Ireland. If you saw the types of dogs going on the transports to the UK you'd be astonished. On one transport alone I've seen pure bred kelpies, old english sheepdogs, a poodle, not to mention springer spaniels and bichons and cross breeds.Those different types of dogs bring people into their local rescue and dilutes the number of staffies. If a rescue gets a reputation for only having a certain type of dog it will lower the footfall so having a variety keeps bringing people through the doors and hopefully some of them will adopt the staffs as well as the other breeds.

Thank god for the UK, dogs are our biggest export following Guinness!

Discodog

Most of the UK rescues that I know that take Irish dogs do so because they want to help dogs irrespective of their "nationality". I doubt if the new owner knows whether they are getting an Irish dog or an English one.

This compassion is illustrated by the fact that a UK charity was willing to use over £10 million of it's income, raised by UK donors, to open a rehoming centre here. They have also been helping dogs in Romania. To my knowledge no one in the UK has raised any objection to their money being used to help "foreign" dogs.

Some countries that take Irish dogs, for example some Scandinavian countries, do not have strays of their own because of responsible ownership. I met a German woman holidaying here with her two Collies that had both come from Ireland & ended up in a German rescue.

Tranceypoo

I was actually under the impression that it wasn't as bad in the UK as it is over here, that's just from conversations I've heard, people I've talked to etc, not saying it is or isn't, that's always just been my understanding. Also the UK has more breed specific rescues I believe so dogs would go there as well, there's even an Irish Retrievers Rescue in the UK that specifically takes dogs from Ireland, I adopted 2 dogs for my godchildren last Christmas through them (as the kids live in the UK)

Re sending dogs to the UK from here, my understanding is that the rescue here covers the entire cost and gets no reimbursement from the UK charity they are sending dogs to, any donation the UK charity may get for rehoming that dog stays with them, not saying that's right or wrong.

Also, the UK is how many times bigger than us, with how much more of a population (I'm not being smart, I actually don't know the answers, but I know it's more!!) so geographically, they have more people, ergo, more homes, although that's a very simplistic explanation I know!

EGAR

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/pets/8739409/Financial-squeeze-sees-345-dogs-abandoned-every-day.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/pets/8811158/Handbag-dogs-dumped-as-they-cease-to-be-a-fashion-item.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270220/As-pet-hour-LIZ-JONES-asks-What-s-going-wrong-animal-loving-Britain.html

portgirl123

EGAR wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/pets/8739409/Financial-squeeze-sees-345-dogs-abandoned-every-day.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/pets/8811158/Handbag-dogs-dumped-as-they-cease-to-be-a-fashion-item.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270220/As-pet-hour-LIZ-JONES-asks-What-s-going-wrong-animal-loving-Britain.html

this seems to back what my cousin is saying???????????

DBB

portgirl123 wrote: »

this seems to back what my cousin is saying???????????

There is little doubt that in recent times, after a sustained ten years of Irish dogs being sent to the UK in their droves, that some (maybe many?) In the UK are getting peed off about us moving our problems on to them.
I've spent time in one of the well-known rescues in north England, and when Irish dogs are mentioned, eyes are thrown up to heaven. I can't blame them... They feel that if the rescues in the south want more rescue dogs, why not liaise with the rescues in the north, rather than shipping them in from abroad?
Although I've fostered many dogs in the past who went to the UK, I have a lot of concerns about the practise in recent years, for various reasons.

Discodog

In the UK 56% of the adult population donate to charities & the average amount donated to animal charities is €13 per year.

In Ireland 75% of the adult population donate to charities so about 2.25m people donate.

If the Irish donated the same €13 per year as the UK then Irish animal charities would receive €30 million per year & our animal welfare problem would be hugely reduced.

Cherry Blossom

I make regular donations to an animal charity, but as their accounts for here and the UK are consolidated, my donations contribute to the UK figures even though I believe the money is used here, I also have other reasons (off-topic) also why I often have little faith in some of the statistics that get thrown around on the animal welfare front.

More than once people have posted in this forum that they are unable to find a dog of a specific breed in rescue and I don't believe there would be a problem re-homing 'pedigree' dogs in Ireland, plenty of people would jump at the chance of a 1-2 year old poodle, OES, bichon, etc. Puppy farms are churning out hundreds of them that are being dumped, but it seems that 'prettier' dogs go to the UK to satisfy a demand that exists there. The same demand for these dogs exists here but people aren't getting the opportunity to adopt them as they are shipped off elsewhere, so people turn to back yard breeders instead accelerating the problem even more.

I've looked into a breed rescue in the UK because I'm looking for a specific breed, there are none here because they all go to the UK rescue. I find it highly unlikely that they would re-home one of their dogs to an Irish home. I won't ask them anyway due to the fact that after some digging it turns out that the same person breeds non-health tested pups that are 'just pets' and I can't in all consciousness just ignore this fact. This perception that the Great British public are leagues above the abysmal Irish attitudes irks me no end because it is not that simple or clear cut.

Just my two cents.

Blueprint

It's not just the prettier dogs that go to the UK, I volunteer for a rescue and we have sent lots of old or wonky dogs to the UK as they would never get a home here and they have a much better chance of getting adopted in the UK. While there is the occasional stunner who everyone wants, it amazes me sometimes the gorgeous dogs who languish in rescue here month after month. A lot of the time, they end up being sent to the UK because we know that they'll be snapped up over there and in a home within weeks whereas we can only offer them an uncertain future of being stuck in a kennel. There is a certain amount of politicking with the UK rescues demanding the cute dogs, but plenty are available here and just don't get the demand. Most dogs usually spend a week or two advertised here before they travel and if they had a chance of a home they wouldn't go.

TooManyDogs

I have to agree with Blueprint, the dogs that I've seen go to the UK are ones that have spent months and months here without any interest at all. Occasionally the pretty dogs do go to the UK, nearly as a thanks for taking the old ones and ones needing behavioural work done with them. I answer emails for the charity I volunteer for and would fairly regularily get emails from UK charities asking if we'd consider sending X or Y dog over to them for homing as they'd noticed the dog had been on our website for quite a while

Cherry Blossom

Well I should probably add that I do see the older dogs getting a better a deal out of this sort arrangement. Transporting these dogs has to be putting them under extra unnecessary stress though. I do see the benefits in some cases such as those explained where the dog has been waiting 'x' amount of time to be re-homed, and obviously different rescues have different policies. It just seems comparable to the practice of horses being sent to Europe for meat, having to endure the journey there, then being 'rescued' by people in Ireland and the UK and having to endure the journey back when they have often suffered on the first leg of the trip and they last thing they ever want to see is another trailer. Adopting the ones that are already closer to hand on the whole reduces the amount of overall stress caused to animals. I know a lot of people won't agree with me but I don't see the point of inflicting extra stress on an animal, they don't have the same perception of time as we do and they aren't going to sit in their new home in 3 months time thinking to themselves that it was worth it in the long run, sure they have a better life at that point but I think it's unfair to inflict more stress on them for the purpose of getting them to that stage when they have already had a less than pleasant life up till then.

meoklmrk91

I was in a position a couple of years ago where I could no longer keep my dog, we had had him for 9 years so it was heartbreaking to let him go but it was for his best interests. I spoke to my local animal welfare organisation and was put on a waiting list for him to be taken in. Once they had space they took him in and he eventually was sent to the UK after a period of time where no body adopted him. He was rehomed almost immediately and I followed up with the UK rescue who told me that he had been homed with a young family and they absolutely adored him.

I was personally delighted with the result. as I know from volunteering with my the same organisation that it is the older dogs and the ones who aren't ''cute'' that wait the longest time to find a home if they ever do. If you look at the figures in UK and Ireland they are worlds apart with regards to how many healthy dogs they put to sleep versus us. Many of the rescue organisations are bursting at the seems with dogs and are having a tough time getting homes for them which means that they cannot take other dogs in until there is space. Them being sent to the UK frees up that space which means they get to help another dog in need which I think is a good thing. And frankly I think the drop in dogs being put to sleep here can partly be attributed to some of our rescues being sent to the UK to be rehomed.

Blueprint

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but I don't see the point of inflicting extra stress on an animal, they don't have the same perception of time as we do and they aren't going to sit in their new home in 3 months time thinking to themselves that it was worth it in the long run, sure they have a better life at that point but I think it's unfair to inflict more stress on them for the purpose of getting them to that stage when they have already had a less than pleasant life up till then.

I don't know about the dog sitting there thinking it's all worth it, but at least the dog is alive to be thinking anything at all. The simple plain stark fact is that, if dogs don't travel to the UK, the rescues can't take in more dogs and thousands of extra dogs a year would be put down. The nice lovely local homes (which we would all of course all love) are just not out there in enough numbers.

If your dog has to have a life changing operation, you put him through it in spite of the stress, as you know it's in his best interests.

getz

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I have to agree with Blueprint, the dogs that I've seen go to the UK are ones that have spent months and months here without any interest at all. Occasionally the pretty dogs do go to the UK, nearly as a thanks for taking the old ones and ones needing behavioural work done with them. I answer emails for the charity I volunteer for and would fairly regularily get emails from UK charities asking if we'd consider sending X or Y dog over to them for homing as they'd noticed the dog had been on our website for quite a while

there is a rescue center in the wicklow mountains run by a dutch couple,who send many a unwanted dog over to the UK for a home its called A S H,animal sanctuary husbasha,[dont ask] they say that in ireland 20% of dogs are impounded and 80% of those -an extraordinary 23,000 dogs annually will be ethanised[the highest per capita in europe] as for the UK,only 5% of dogs end up in shelters,and only 20% of these will be put down . most breeders of dog breeds in the UK have their own rescue centers,i know [being a bully lover] that when i considered giving one a good home ,i would have had to go on a waiting list, pay money up front[£10] for the paperwork,pay £200 when or if they get one that needs rehoming,and i would only get one if it turns up within a ten mile radius from where i live,[i live in the middle of no-where ,so i gave that up ,and i went to a breeder

Discodog

Blueprint wrote: »

I don't know about the dog sitting there thinking it's all worth it, but at least the dog is alive to be thinking anything at all. The simple plain stark fact is that, if dogs don't travel to the UK, the rescues can't take in more dogs and thousands of extra dogs a year would be put down. The nice lovely local homes (which we would all of course all love) are just not out there in enough numbers.

If your dog has to have a life changing operation, you put him through it in spite of the stress, as you know it's in his best interests.

I totally agree. I can't see any comparison between dogs going to the UK for rehoming & sending a horse for meat. Some Irish dogs go to Europe & have a much longer journey but any minor stress caused is more than offset by ending up in a good home.

But the choices are simple. Rescues either send dogs abroad or even more dogs die. Some may question the statistics but there are different ways that you can compare us to the UK regarding animal welfare & we fail on every one.

getz wrote: »

there is a rescue center in the wicklow mountains run by a dutch couple,who send many a unwanted dog over to the UK for a home its called A S H,animal sanctuary husbasha,[dont ask] they say that in ireland 20% of dogs are impounded and 80% of those -an extraordinary 23,000 dogs annually will be ethanised[the highest per capita in europe] as for the UK,

A disproportional number of foreign nationals run rescues here. If you have lived abroad then you can't help but be shocked when you see how bad the situation is here.

The 23,000 figure has probably reduced but we obviously kill far more dogs than just the 6000 registered by the Pounds, for example thousands of Greyhounds are killed here every year.

Ireland has to change the way that dog's are perceived & help Irish rescues deal with the problem. The idea of the Irish as uncaring hurts us because, as members of an animal forum, we love animals. But we are a small minority & not representative of the Country as a whole.

portgirl123

so how much does it cost to transport a dog. plus i presume they will have to be vac as well

Inexile

portgirl123 wrote: »

so how much does it cost to transport a dog.

Transport is about €70 per dog. It may be somewhat less if you are sending two small dogs and they can go in the one crate.

Cherry Blossom

Blueprint wrote: »

If your dog has to have a life changing operation, you put him through it in spite of the stress, as you know it's in his best interests.

I wouldn't put a dog through an operation at cost to it's mental well-being, I would weigh it up very carefully and try to make a decision based on logic and common sense and although difficult to do, try my best to make the decision without taking my own selfish emotions into account (i.e. the fact I love the dog and want to keep it around to satisfy my own needs). If the operation was going to cause the dog to suffer, I don't believe it would necessarily be in his best interests depending on the circumstances. In your example I would take steps to limit the suffering prior to the operation (eg. if he will need crate rest but is terrified of confinement I would try to overcome this before the operation). Are these dogs tested in anyway to guarantee that they will travel well or conditioned to become accustomed to it so it will not cause adverse effects to their mentality?

I'm not comparing sending dogs to the UK to sending horses for meat, I compared them to the ones that are rescued from being meat and forced to endure the return journey.

I don't see anything wrong with ending an animals suffering by putting it to sleep in as humane and pain free manner as possible, it's much better than additional weeks/months of suffering. Many thousands of much loved pets are done this courtesy the world over for their own benefit and in their own best interests. It's very important that animals are not made to suffer unnecessarily for the sake of someone's 'policy', 'beliefs' or 'emotions' just as much as they shouldn't suffer because of neglect, mistreatment, abuse or ignorance. These are all irrelevant to that specific animal who has no perception of these things (the first ones, not the latter). I'm not giving a blanket opinion on all dogs as obviously some will be perfectly capable of making the journey with minimal ill-effects but there are many more that won't.

Blueprint

So let me get this right, you think it is kinder to kill dogs than send them to loving homes in the UK because they might suffer a few hours stress on the way? Maybe the dog warden should just kill the dogs as they come into the pound, as being there is REALLY stressful and there is no guarantee anyone will come to take them out. After all, their lives aren't as important as them not suffering a moment of stress due to misguided rescuers over emotional belief that it is wrong to stand by and see them killed.

I had to put my dog through a very tough cruciate ligament operation in the summer, he was not exactly happy about life for at least the next week, are you saying I did it for my own selfish ends as his suffering would have been over if I'd just had him put to sleep? Sure, the fact that he's now able to go for walks again is nothing compared to the tough time he had to endure to get to this stage.

Cherry Blossom

No, I'm saying the advantages and disadvantages of doing so need to be balanced so the benefits outweigh any ill-effects by more than it being equal. I'm also saying that it needs to be done for the actual benefit of the specific dogs involved and for their actual welfare and not for the purpose of making statistics look nicer. I'm also saying that death is not the ultimate horror it is portrayed as - it can be calm and peaceful and pain free. There are much worse things in the world that can happen to a dog than for it to have a pain free death. I'm also trying to add some balance to this thread as it's terribly one sided.

Personally I'm on the fence on the issue - some days I think this country has enough of a reputation without exporting it's rescue dogs at the cost of lives to dogs in the uk. Some days I think it's fair enough that the country that drives much of the demand for van loads of Irish puppy farms wares to be shipped there should also bear some of the responsibility of the same industry's fallout. Some days I see similarities between the 2 practices and both just seem 'wrong'.

Someone who is on the fence can easily be won over by reasoned logical points, but not if people strongly on either side of an argument can't accept valid concerns about their 'side' and address those without being condescending about it, in which case I remain on the fence if not slightly swayed the other way as it appears those concerns can't be put to rest.

Discodog

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I'm also saying that it needs to be done for the actual benefit of the specific dogs involved and for their actual welfare and not for the purpose of making statistics look nicer. .

Are you seriously suggesting that rescues send dogs to the UK to make the statistics look better ?

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I'm also saying that death is not the ultimate horror it is portrayed as - it can be calm and peaceful and pain free. There are much worse things in the world that can happen to a dog than for it to have a pain free death.

There may be worse things than a pain free death but any death is worse than a good life. If we adopt the view that euthanasia is OK then we just encourage the idea of dogs being disposable.

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Some days I think it's fair enough that the country that drives much of the demand for van loads of Irish puppy farms wares to be shipped there should also bear some of the responsibility of the same industry's fallout. Some days I see similarities between the 2 practices and both just seem 'wrong'.

This is a totally invalid argument. The UK rescues that take Irish dogs do not buy from or support puppy farming. Neither do they represent the UK. You complain when you perceive that the Irish are all being tarred with the same brush but then you do the same with the British.

The Irish rescues are simply too desperately busy trying to save lives rather than convince doubters. In order to free up space for new dogs they need to rehome their existing dogs. It is very difficult for someone to understand the pressure unless they have experienced it.

Cherry Blossom

Discodog wrote: »

There may be worse things than a pain free death but any death is worse than a good life. If we adopt the view that euthanasia is OK then we just encourage the idea of dogs being disposable.

There are tens of thousands of people walking around who have off loaded a dog onto someone else and their conscience is completely clear with the knowledge (or perception) that it has gone on to a happy life, 6 months, a year or 2 years down the line the 'issues' are forgotten and they get another dog - which will likely have the same fate but we seem to have adopted the view that this is ok but euthanasia isn't?.

It's never going to happen, but if you took rescues completely out of the equation and the choices were you either stand by the responsibilities you took on when you got the dog or you actively make the decision to have the dog euthanised then there is no walking away with a clear conscience. I believe a 'some' more people would go that bit extra to put in the effort required to try to make it work. For those that don't, they wouldn't get benefit of walking around with their head in the clouds thinking everything was hunky dorey after getting rid of their pet, they would be less likely to repeat the cycle and infact by making it more difficult to 'dispose' of a dog the opposite may become true in that it actually discourages the idea that dogs are disposable. In turn the demand for puppy farmed dogs and those bred by byb's decreases and sheer lack of a 'scape-goat' for these that couldn't care less might just prompt some decent welfare legislation.

All completely hypothetical as it will never happen so no way knowing what effect the absence of rescues would have in reality though.

I do appreciate the fact that when a rescue appears it was because there was obviously an existing need for one, but as long as people keep cleaning up the messes there is no incentive for those making them to stop. I don't see the whole issue of pets in general being abandoned going any way other than continuing to escalate. If a fraction of the effort that is put into saving lives went into education and prevention, there might just be a stage where there are less lives that need to be saved.

Discodog

Rescues appear because compassionate people care about the welfare of animals & are willing to make huge personal sacrifices to help them. Education would help, to a point, but there are very entrenched views & they are being passed on to children - my neighbour won't neuter his cat & he is a primary school teacher.

How is a rescue going to find the time or the money to start educating the public. Animal care should be part of the National Curriculum & the major rescues have been lobbying for this.

I don't agree with the idea that, if rescues didn't exist, that people would be forced to take responsibility. Do we stop feeding starving children in the hope that it will make governments take responsibility ? Most of the people that buy a puppy farm dog have no idea where it came from. Yes people should do more research but there is a huge amount of misrepresentation going on.

A lot of the people involved with rescue dedicate their lives to it. Yet there seems to be almost constant criticism of their actions. Many people couldn't visit a Pound, it would be too upsetting & impossible to choose which dog to take. Some rescues do this every day & they know that the dogs that they leave behind will be killed.

I do agree that some people will dump a dog & assume that someone else will look after it - I have two of those at home. The people who do this will ease their conscience by believing that the dog will be OK but they are not really concerned about whether it ends up dead.

Cherry Blossom

^^^
All of that, I agree with.

I could go on and on about education, but it would be off-topic.