Should network broadbcasters say "Heineken" cup

jayteecork

As far as I know, Heineken don't pay the likes of RTE and Sky to always refer to the rugby european cup as the Heineken cup.

Why give this brewer of overpriced urine free advertising?

Why not simply say "European Cup"

I've never heard the Champions league called other than that or the European cup. Imagine they started calling it "Amstel Cup" - (I know Amstel don't sponser it anymore but they were associated with it for years)

CIARAN_BOYLE

jayteecork wrote: »

As far as I know, Heineken don't pay the likes of RTE and Sky to always refer to the rugby european cup as the Heineken cup.

Why give this brewer of overpriced urine free advertising?

Why not simply say "European Cup"

I've never heard the Champions league called other than that or the European cup. Imagine they started calling it "Amstel Cup" - (I know Amstel don't sponser it anymore but they were associated with it for years)

Amstel never paid for naming rights and UEFA would never sell naming rights

The cup is officially called the Heineken European cup so why make up another name. Rabo Direct Pro 12, Carling cup Aviva Stadium, Emirates Stadium ect ect

wixfjord

jayteecork wrote: »

As far as I know, Heineken don't pay the likes of RTE and Sky to always refer to the rugby european cup as the Heineken cup.

Why give this brewer of overpriced urine free advertising?

Why not simply say "European Cup"

I've never heard the Champions league called other than that or the European cup. Imagine they started calling it "Amstel Cup" - (I know Amstel don't sponser it anymore but they were associated with it for years)

Ah no, that's a nothing argumemt. Just like Aviva for Landsdowne and O2 for the Point, Heineken pay top dollar to be outright sponsors, and for it to be called the HEC. You can't compare it to Amstel sponsoring the football Champs League, or Bud sponsoring the World Cup etc.

It's the very same as Aviva Prem, RaboPro12, LV Cup etc.

matthew8

It's called the Heineken cup. If you called it the European cup you'd be wrong.

Digifriendly

Afraid just like the 'Amlin Challenge Cup' it is officially the 'Heineken Cup'.

dtpc191991

Ssssssshhhhh, we don't want them to over hear us and start calling the Six Nations the Royal Bank of Scotland trophy.

MungBean

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Ssssssshhhhh, we don't want them to over hear us and start calling the Six Nations the Royal Bank of Scotland trophy.

You mean the RBS Six Nations ? Too late

Seans_Username

last year my french teacher said that they call it 'The H Cup' in france. but thats cos they try not to advertise alcahol publicly like we do.

anywho i think these things have no influence on buying the actual products. i mean i only drank carling cos it was cheap, not cos i watched the carling cup.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Seans_Username wrote: »

last year my french teacher said that they call it 'The H Cup' in france. but thats cos they try not to advertise alcahol publicly like we do.

Its a legal ban on alcohol advertising I believe

profitius

Seans_Username wrote: »

anywho i think these things have no influence on buying the actual products. i mean i only drank carling cos it was cheap, not cos i watched the carling cup.

It has a massive influence. Companies pay big money for advertising because the stats show they profit from it.

eyescreamcone

And also calling it the European cup would be ridiculous as only 5 of the 50 odd European countries are represented

totallegend

Like the Aviva Stadium, the rights have been sold on the basis of naming rather than sponsorship, so the official name of the competition is the Heineken Cup.

Podge_irl

eyescreamcone wrote: »

And also calling it the European cup would be ridiculous as only 5 of the 50 odd European countries are represented

6. And 2 more at least can technically qualify for it (Romania and Spain).

eyescreamcone

Podge_irl wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

And also calling it the European cup would be ridiculous as only 5 of the 50 odd European countries are represented

6. And 2 more at least can technically qualify for it (Romania and Spain).

Oh well that makes a nonsense of my post so

Nobody plays it in Europe!
It's a local competition with a few frenchies thrown in for spice.
And they are usually the best at it.

[Jackass]

The reason there is a title sponsorship is for the mass media advertising. It's an unwritten rule that the official name of a competition be used when reporting on it, but you'll find some competitions are purely known by their sponsors, others aren't so strongly associated.

For example, the Magners League was very often called the Magners league, but was on many occassions referred to as "in the celtic competition" or celtic league. This weekend alone it has been referred to as the Pro12 in the IT, not rabo direct pro 12.

But Heineken took a gamble on the "European Cup" early on, and it is now the name for the competition, it's more the Heineken Cup than "European Cup" anyway. And re soccer, the Champions League never sold naming rights as far as I'm aware.

As for Aviva Stadium, the reason these deals are worth so much is the constant reference to the company in the name, so if the RDS succeed in getting 15 million for the naming rights of the RDS in the near future, as they are planning, I will more than happily call it the uncle bens melting pot of sweet and sour sporting events for the next 10 years if it gets us a 25k capacity and improved facilities...

Leave commercialism off the field, don't worry about it, and just enjoy the benefits it brings. Does it really matter what product is in the name of something as long as it's still the league and the European Cup. Doesn't change how much we want to win it, but the money of a product definitely helps the game. So yes, these sponsors pay a lot of money and do deserve all the mentions they get, that's the whole point.

[Jackass]

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Oh well that makes a nonsense of my post so

Nobody plays it in Europe!
It's a local competition with a few frenchies thrown in for spice.
And they are usually the best at it.

I think you'll find that a large amount of European countries play it and have a national team.

IRB World Rankings

1(1) NEW ZEALAND 91.43
2(2) AUSTRALIA 87.42
3(3) FRANCE 84.70
4(4) SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5(5) ENGLAND 81.58
6(7) IRELAND 80.65
7(8) ARGENTINA 80.28
8(6) WALES 80.18
9(9) TONGA 76.63
10(10)SCOTLAND 76.20
11(11)SAMOA 75.81
12(12)ITALY 73.99
13(13)CANADA 72.92
14(14)GEORGIA 71.09
15(15)JAPAN 70.45
16(16)FIJI 68.78
17(17)USA 65.63
18(18)ROMANIA 63.98
19(19)NAMIBIA 61.24
20(20)PORTUGAL 60.67
21(21)RUSSIA 60.54
22(22)URUGUAY 60.00
23(23)CHILE 59.52
24(24)SPAIN 59.43
25(25)BELGIUM 56.50
26(26)MOROCCO 56.13
27(27)HONG KONG 54.34
28(28)MOLDOVA 54.09
29(29)BRAZIL 54.04
30(30)POLAND 53.67
31(31)KAZAKHSTAN 53.62
32(32)KOREA 53.36
33(33)UKRAINE 53.22
34(34)CZECH REPUBLIC 52.99
35(35)ZIMBABWE 52.40
36(36)TUNISIA 52.35
37(37)GERMANY 51.81
38(39) SWEDEN 51.34
39(38) LITHUANIA 51.14
40(40)KENYA 49.18
41(41)PARAGUAY 48.84
42(42)NETHERLANDS 47.71
43(43)UGANDA 47.69
44(44)IVORY COAST 47.52
45(45)SRI LANKA 47.03
46(46)PAPUA NEW GUINEA 46.19
47(47)BERMUDA 45.94
48(48)TRINIDAD & TOBAGO 45.85
49(49)SINGAPORE 45.66
50(50)CROATIA 45.56
51(51)VENEZUELA 45.36
52(52)SENEGAL 45.24
53(53)MALTA 45.23
54(54)COOK ISLANDS 44.61
55(55)MADAGASCAR 44.31
56(56)SWITZERLAND 44.22
57(57)CHINESE TAIPEI 43.62
58(58)ANDORRA 42.83
59(59)LATVIA 42.69
60(60)GUYANA 42.54
61(67) ISRAEL 42.02
62(61) CHINA 41.78
63(62) MALAYSIA 41.75
64(63) PERU 41.64
65(64) THAILAND 41.46
66(65) CAYMAN 41.23
67(66) NIUE ISLANDS 41.11
68(68)DENMARK 40.81
69(69)SERBIA 40.81
70(70)SLOVENIA 40.20
71(71)HUNGARY 40.10
72(72)ZAMBIA 39.94
73(73)COLOMBIA 39.59
74(74)ST. VINCENT & THE GRENADINES 39.30
75(75)INDIA 39.19
76(76)BARBADOS 39.13
77(77)SOLOMON ISLANDS 39.06
78(78)CAMEROON 38.33
79(80) BULGARIA 37.36
80(79) AUSTRIA 36.79
81(81)SWAZILAND 36.68
82(82)BOTSWANA 36.68
83(83)JAMAICA 36.35
84(84)BAHAMAS 36.33
85(85)TAHITI 36.25
86(86)GUAM 36.24
87(87)BOSNIA & HERZEGOVINA 36.18
88(88)NIGERIA 35.29
89(89)MONACO 35.17
90(90)NORWAY 34.81
91(91)VANUATU 34.77
92(92)LUXEMBOURG 32.26
93(93)FINLAND 27.70

Also see the European Nations Cup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Nations_Cup_(rugby_union)

and the league / tiers of European teams



Division 1A
Georgia
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Spain
Ukraine

Division 1B
Belgium
Czech Republic
Germany
Moldova
Netherlands
Poland

Division 2A
Croatia
Latvia
Lithuania
Malta
Sweden

Division 2B
Andorra
Armenia
Serbia
Slovenia
Switzerland

Division 2C
Austria
Denmark
Hungary
Israel
Norway

Division 2D
Bulgaria
Cyprus
Finland
Greece
Luxembourg

Podge_irl

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Nobody plays it in Europe!
It's a local competition with a few frenchies thrown in for spice.
And they are usually the best at it.

Technically of the teams eligible for the HEC, they account for 36% of the population of Europe. Rugby is a minority sport, I don't think anyone here is going to argue that. It's easily the second most popular sport in Europe though.

The Frenchies have only won as many titles as Irish teams have won (5 each). England have won 6.

irishbucsfan

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Oh well that makes a nonsense of my post so

Nobody plays it in Europe!
It's a local competition with a few frenchies thrown in for spice.
And they are usually the best at it.

6 French teams in it, 2 Italian teams... They're usually the best at it, apart from 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2011.

ArmaniJeanss

[Jackass] wrote: »

Division 1A
Georgia
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Spain
Ukraine
+ the other divisions.

One of the great disgraces in rugby is that the evocatively titled Division 1A is the limit for 47 countries in Europe, as the Sacred Six are too scared to even discuss a clearly defined promotion/relegation system (a playoff even) between 1A and the 6 Nations.

[Jackass]

Georgia dominate it and I think should be considerd for promotion to 6 nations. But rushing something like this or even enforcing it by default could do more harm than good.

There's no question about the appetite to expand the game though, but promotion / relegation would also be very damaging to established nations and intergration / promotion with no relegation is the answer imo.

EVENTUALLY if there are enough teams playing "top tier" rugby, a split into two group stages based on seeding and a semi final and final could work.

komodosp

This whole "naming rights" think is stupid - I mean it makes out that Heineken organised the cup, or that Aviva built the stadium, when all they did was contribute a bit of cash (and not the majority of the cash I might add)

The Heineken Cup is bad enough but "The Rabo Direct Pro 12" is just plain silly. Such a long bloody name to describe just small aspects of it. The Pro twelve? So they are professionals. What, to highlight that the players get paid for their efforts? I can't tell if that's cynical or patronising. And that Rabo Direct paid some money into it?

They should just have kept the original name:

"The league of 12 teams of full-time-salary players to which Rabo Direct amongst other sources have contributed money."

Jess16

komodosp wrote: »

This whole "naming rights" think is stupid - I mean it makes out that Heineken organised the cup, or that Aviva built the stadium, when all they did was contribute a bit of cash (and not the majority of the cash I might add)

It's basic quid pro quo really. The ERC need that 'bit of cash' and the sponsors are happy to pay for publicity -I don't see what the problem is

eyescreamcone

irishbucsfan wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Oh well that makes a nonsense of my post so

Nobody plays it in Europe!
It's a local competition with a few frenchies thrown in for spice.
And they are usually the best at it.

6 French teams in it, 2 Italian teams... They're usually the best at it, apart from 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2011.

Have a look at the French representation in the H Cup Final. Much more than any other country ie. Ireland and England.
Because in spite of lists of countries who supposedly are interested in Rugby. Nobody in Europe plays rugby.
And it's a minority sport in the few it is played in.

There is no effort being made to be more inclusive.
Why not put say Georgia into the group stages of the HCup.
See how they get on with a view to bringing them into the European international scene.

If Ireland's provinces are allowed in why not a country?

wixfjord

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Have a look at the French representation in the H Cup Final. Much more than any other country ie. Ireland and England.
Because in spite of lists of countries who supposedly are interested in Rugby. Nobody in Europe plays rugby.
And it's a minority sport in the few it is played in.

There is no effort being made to be more inclusive.
Why not put say Georgia into the group stages of the HCup.
See how they get on with a view to bringing them into the European international scene.

If Ireland's provinces are allowed in why not a country?

And what about the 10 or so of Georgia's best players who play in the HEC.
Come on mate, it may not be perfect, but the HEC is one of the best club sporting comps out there. Group stages are far more competitive than the soccer group stages for example. Are you surprised that the biggest country with the best rugby history are involved in more finals than any other country?!

profitius

wixfjord wrote: »

Come on mate, it may not be perfect, but the HEC is one of the best club sporting comps out there. Group stages are far more competitive than the soccer group stages for example.

Thats for sure. Barcelona, Madrid, Man Utd etc hardly have to try to get through the group stages. They've all the money so can sign massive squads of talented players and recieve most money back from UEFA.

icdg

komodosp wrote: »

This whole "naming rights" think is stupid - I mean it makes out that Heineken organised the cup, or that Aviva built the stadium, when all they did was contribute a bit of cash (and not the majority of the cash I might add)

The Heineken Cup is bad enough but "The Rabo Direct Pro 12" is just plain silly. Such a long bloody name to describe just small aspects of it. The Pro twelve? So they are professionals. What, to highlight that the players get paid for their efforts? I can't tell if that's cynical or patronising. And that Rabo Direct paid some money into it?

RaboDirect Pro 12 is a terrible name (from the sheer point of view of the number of syllables required to say it), but its been born out of a number of things, the end of the Magners sponsorship, the fact that the Italians don't like the moniker "Celtic League", and the need to have a brand that will stay from sponsor to sponsor. Hence "Pro12" was born and is supposed to be the new permanent name for the league behind which the sponsors name will go, whoever that sponsor is.

UEFA has been mentioned a couple of times but they operate a different sponsorship model whereby they have multiple "partners" but no title sponsor. The GAA do the same. Whether or not one model or the other is best is debatable - the FAI tried a multiple partner model for the League of Ireland for one season and then switched back to the title sponsor model. (Arguably their trial of the multiple sponsor model was only done because they couldn't find a title sponsor that year though).

As for Heineken Cup, well it has no other name, it has been the Heineken Cup since the day it launched. Its probably for this reason that ERC prefers to be known as ERC and not European Rugby Cup, lest people think that was the Heineken Cup's real name.

eyescreamcone

wixfjord wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Have a look at the French representation in the H Cup Final. Much more than any other country ie. Ireland and England.
Because in spite of lists of countries who supposedly are interested in Rugby. Nobody in Europe plays rugby.
And it's a minority sport in the few it is played in.

There is no effort being made to be more inclusive.
Why not put say Georgia into the group stages of the HCup.
See how they get on with a view to bringing them into the European international scene.

If Ireland's provinces are allowed in why not a country?

And what about the 10 or so of Georgia's best players who play in the HEC.
Come on mate, it may not be perfect, but the HEC is one of the best club sporting comps out there. Group stages are far more competitive than the soccer group stages for example. Are you surprised that the biggest country with the best rugby history are involved in more finals than any other country?!

No surprise really!
But is it a true European cup if only five or six countries are represented out of 50 odd.
Also barring the first final ALL finalists have come from France, England or Ireland.

It's entertaining but it's stretching things to call it a "European Cup"

Heineken or H Cup is more appropriate for the moment I think.

CatFromHue

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No surprise really!
But is it a true European cup if only five or six countries are represented out of 50 odd.
Also barring the first final ALL finalists have come from France, England or Ireland.

It's entertaining but it's stretching things to call it a "European Cup"

Heineken or H Cup is more appropriate for the moment I think.

What do you call the main club rugby competition in Europe that has teams from Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, France, and Italy in it then?

eyescreamcone

CatFromHue wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No surprise really!
But is it a true European cup if only five or six countries are represented out of 50 odd.
Also barring the first final ALL finalists have come from France, England or Ireland.

It's entertaining but it's stretching things to call it a "European Cup"

Heineken or H Cup is more appropriate for the moment I think.

What do you call the main club rugby competition in Europe that has teams from Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, France, and Italy in it then?

Ahem
Heineken or H Cup is more appropriate at the moment I think

CatFromHue

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Ahem
Heineken or H Cup is more appropriate at the moment I think

What if Heineken stop their sponsorship of it unexpectedly and no other company wants to take their place. Unlikely I know!

Podge_irl

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No surprise really!
But is it a true European cup if only five or six countries are represented out of 50 odd.
Also barring the first final ALL finalists have come from France, England or Ireland.

It's entertaining but it's stretching things to call it a "European Cup"

Heineken or H Cup is more appropriate for the moment I think.

8 countries are represented technically. Romania and Spain both have teams in the Challenge Cup and are eligible to qualify for the HEC through that. The fact they've never managed it is somewhat irrelevant. Many, many teams have failed to qualify for the soccer world cup. Doesn't mean you can't call it the "world" cup.

It's just pointless nit picking. All countries in Europe that play rugby to any real standard are included. Thus it's a rugby European cup. I imagine Russia may well get an entrant to the Challenge Cup soon enough as well as the game grows there.

pickarooney

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's easily the second most popular sport in Europe though.

Is it? I would have thought basketball, handball and even ice hockey would be more popular.

JustinDee

pickarooney wrote: »

Is it? I would have thought basketball, handball and even ice hockey would be more popular.

Basketball and Handball, yep. Ice Hockey in trouble due to soccer-mom mentality ie. Parents not wanting kids to get injured in contact sports.

Eoin

Yes, the broadcasters should call it the Heineken cup because:
1) they're probably obliged to
2) it would be bad for the tournament, European rugby and the teams concerned if sponsors thought it wasn't worth putting money into

totallegend

Eoin wrote: »

Yes, the broadcasters should call it the Heineken cup because:
1) they're probably obliged to
2) it would be bad for the tournament, European rugby and the teams concerned if sponsors thought it wasn't worth putting money into

3) The official name of the tournament is The Heineken Cup

How does such a nothing thread grow such legs?

Podge_irl

JustinDee wrote: »

Basketball and Handball, yep. Ice Hockey in trouble due to soccer-mom mentality ie. Parents not wanting kids to get injured in contact sports.

Ha. Shows what I know so.