Petrol or Diesel

Hi All

First time posting here but I hope you will advise me please.

I need a new car.

I travel about 450 miles each week between work and recreation.

I am aiming at buying around 2008/2009.

Am I better advised buying a diesel car over petrol? My father seems to believe I am as regards to road tax and price at the pumps. I have no clue myself!!

I have been looking at Ford Focuses as they seem to fit within my budget off 12/13K

I hope someone can advise me please

Given expected mileage of approx. 50 k miles a year, diesel would be a no brainer. A diesel normally uses approx. 30 percent less fuel than a petrol equivalent, you'd save several thousands a year I reckon.

On quick estimation, a petrol focus at 35..40 MPG would burn about 6000 liters of petrol a year and diesel at roughly 50 MPG about 4000, so even if the fuel cost the same you'd save €3k on consumption difference alone.

That would give you a nice lump of money for potential diesel issues like DMF.

Vicxas

If you're going for a 08/09 Diesel is a no brainer. The tax band will be lower, fuel costs will be lower, the only issue will be that it needs servicing more often.

Eoin

samih wrote: »

Given expected mileage of approx. 50 k miles a year, diesel would be a no brainer.

It's half that (~25K miles), but still in diesel territory probably.

PaulKK

samih wrote: »

Given expected mileage of approx. 50 k miles a year, diesel would be a no brainer.

There's 100 weeks in a year now??

MarkR

PaulKK wrote: »

samih wrote: »

Given expected mileage of approx. 50 k miles a year, diesel would be a no brainer.

There's 100 weeks in a year now??

Knew this year was dragging.

George Dalton

At 25k miles per year you are probably into diesel territory as stated.

The problem with the modern low emissions diesel engines is that they are very complex so there is more to go wrong with them than with a run of the mill petrol engine. So if you take the Focus as an example, the diesel Focus has a turbo, a complex and expensive fuel system and in some cases a DPF. If any one of those goes wrong you are looking at a 4 figure sum to sort it out. The petrol engine by comparison has none of the above and should never give you any big repair bills. That is something you have to take into account when doing the maths. Are you doing enough mileage to make enough of a saving to offset a big repair bill which may hit you down the line?

Max Keller

Diesel without a doubt. Max.

George Dalton

Thanks for the advice everyone.....my father was right so!!! As always!!

George Dalton wrote: »

At 25k miles per year you are probably into diesel territory as stated.

The problem with the modern low emissions diesel engines is that they are very complex so there is more to go wrong with them than with a run of the mill petrol engine. So if you take the Focus as an example, the diesel Focus has a turbo, a complex and expensive fuel system and in some cases a DPF. If any one of those goes wrong you are looking at a 4 figure sum to sort it out. The petrol engine by comparison has none of the above and should never give you any big repair bills. That is something you have to take into account when doing the maths. Are you doing enough mileage to make enough of a saving to offset a big repair bill which may hit you down the line?

How do I know which Focus wont have this DPF? Whatever that is!!

Is a Focus a bad choice of car then?

R.O.R

TheTorment wrote: »

How do I know which Focus wont have this DPF? Whatever that is!!

Is a Focus a bad choice of car then?

At that sort of mileage, you'd be very unlucky to run in to issues with the DPF. The DPF traps soot and uses high engine temperatures to burn the soot off. If the engine never gets warm enough then the build up of soot causes all sorts of issues, but doing 450miles a week would be more than enough to have the engine at a decent temperature, for quite a while.

murpho999

Sorry if this is a stupid question but when people are saying miles here do they really mean kilometres as most speedos have that now?

R.O.R

R.O.R wrote: »

At that sort of mileage, you'd be very unlucky to run in to issues with the DPF. The DPF traps soot and uses high engine temperatures to burn the soot off. If the engine never gets warm enough then the build up of soot causes all sorts of issues, but doing 450miles a week would be more than enough to have the engine at a decent temperature, for quite a while.

Thanks for that.

Diesel it is so. I have read on here that the Focus diesel is a good car. I think I will stick with that advice....plus it is within budget.

Is there much of a difference between 1.6l and 1.8l?

Is it the TDCI engine that I should be looking at?

What sort of mileage should I be looking at if the car is 2008?

Sorry about the questions but believe me this is just the beginning!!!!

George Dalton

I would definitely go for the 1.8tdci over the 1.6tdci. They are far more reliable.

R.O.R

1.6Tdci is nicer to drive than the 1.8Tdci. Even though the 1.8 has more power, I'd prefer the 1.6 in either 90ps or 110ps.

Try to get the Zetec spec if you can find one, biggest plus in that is the Armrest - makes a big difference if you are spending a while in the car. Base model LX or Style versions don't have the arm rest.

Don't be too concerned by mileage, I've driven Focus 1.6Tdci's with over 200,000km on them and they were still running well. Look for as much service history as possible, and good interior and exterior condition.

MarkR

MarkR wrote: »

Knew this year was dragging.

My bad. I thought savings did sound too good to be true.

September1

If you usually drive less than 100 miles per day and are concerned mostly about cost then electric car would be much cheaper to run than diesel. Also much less things to break and service as no gearbox, clutch, flywheel etc

EPM

September1 wrote: »

If you usually drive less than 100 miles per day and are concerned mostly about cost then electric car would be much cheaper to run than diesel. Also much less things to break and service as no gearbox, clutch, flywheel etc

So what car would you suggest, 08 onwards for 13-14k for the OP?

YouTookMyName

EPM wrote: »

So what car would you suggest, 08 onwards for 13-14k for the OP?

September1

I did not looked at price, my mistake ;-)

Can someone tell me what the difference is between a Focus Zetec and Titanium please?

Are they just extras or engines?

BIGGIEsmall

Petrol

EPM

TheTorment wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the difference is between a Focus Zetec and Titanium please?

Are they just extras or engines?

Titanium is a higher spec. It also usually come with a higher powered diesel engine than the zetec (although they are also available on the zetec). Ghia might be worhwile looking at too as it has standard cruise control.

Galwayguy35

I do about 400 miles a week. Bought a TDI Golf last year and would never go back to petrol again. Only downside is its a 04 so im caught for tha high tax.

barura

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I do about 400 miles a week. Bought a TDI Golf last year and would never go back to petrol again. Only downside is its a 04 so im caught for tha high tax.

It's not "high tax" high tax is on 3l+ which is 1600~euro

666eur a year is quite reasonable for a 2litre engine. Seeing as you're making savings from the fuel, right?

Galwayguy35

barura wrote: »

It's not "high tax" high tax is on 3l+ which is 1600~euro

666eur a year is quite reasonable for a 2litre engine. Seeing as you're making savings from the fuel, right?

I mean its high compared with the newer models.:)

Thanks for all the help.

I'll start the searching now.


Just out of interest how much can you factor in for a haggle on a car worth 12,500?

Matthewjohn

I know you like the focus but I test drove a 10 1.6 TDCI last year and although it was good to drive and cheap to run the Volkswagen dealer was just next door so after I went in and the 1.9 TDI golf is more powerful more comfortable and better resale value also a 2008 comfortline model would be within your budget

I have read that I would get "more" car in the Focus than I would in the Golf for the price. Would this be the case?

As regards reliability which would be the better option?

barura

TheTorment wrote: »

I have read that I would get "more" car in the Focus than I would in the Golf for the price. Would this be the case?

As regards reliability which would be the better option?

Both car's, serviced at their regular intervals, should not have too much difference in cost.

barura

barura wrote: »

Both car's, serviced at their regular intervals, should not have too much difference in cost.

Thanks Barura.

I will have a look at a Golf diesel too so.

Idbatterim

Op do you have the money in cash or will you be borrowing? also for how long do you foresee yourself doing this kind of mileage? also how about a 1 series diesel?

Unfortunately with other things going on I will have to borrow the money or take some sort of Finance.

The mileage will remain the same as its a commute to work that makes up the bigger portion of it.

Do you mean 1 series BMW?

Idbatterim

finance is very expensive now, is marginally better if you get car from dealer as you can get hp finance from BOI. The cost of finance and depreciation on the cars you are looking at, with the mileage you do is going to be very considerable. If anything goes wrong with the diesel, you are looking at fairly major money for turbo etc... You are also paying quite a large premium for the fact you are buying a diesel. Yeah I meant the one series... Would you consider the likes of a 1.5 almera or 1.6 mondeo, around 02 or 03, you pick one up for 2.5k ish?

Would I not have a big tax bill on the pre 2008 cars?

By buying an older car like that am I not running into the area of having constant trouble?

Galwayguy35

TheTorment wrote: »

Would I not have a big tax bill on the pre 2008 cars?

By buying an older car like that am I not running into the area of having constant trouble?

My car is a 2004 and my tax is €582. Its a 1.9 though.

GalwayGuy do you not think that that is big???

I am thinking along the lines of the lowest band. Would it not be a saving in the long run?

Galwayguy35

TheTorment wrote: »

GalwayGuy do you not think that that is big???

I am thinking along the lines of the lowest band. Would it not be a saving in the long run?

Yeah if you are going for the lower engine size and form a 08 up. I couldnt afford a diesel any newer than a 04 though. Im still saving money throughout the year compared to when i had a petrol car though.

George Dalton

I think it would be a bit dangerous to assume that the CO2 tax bands will remain as they are. The amount of money the government is losing on motor tax means they will have to do something about it soon. The average cost of taxing a diesel saloon has gone from around €600 down to €156 or even €104. A normal family with 2 diesel cars has gone from paying €1200 road tax down to potentially €208. That isn't a sustainable situation.

barura

George Dalton wrote: »

I think it would be a bit dangerous to assume that the CO2 tax bands will remain as they are. The amount of money the government is losing on motor tax means they will have to do something about it soon. The average cost of taxing a diesel saloon has gone from around €600 down to €156 or even €104. A normal family with 2 diesel cars has gone from paying €1200 road tax down to potentially €208. That isn't a sustainable situation.

But the VRT they pay is. All the people who get a newer car pay enough VRT to offset the difference for at least 5 years on tax.

George Dalton

No they don't because the VRT is far lower than it used to be as well. To take a 520d as an example. The VRT used to be 30% but now is only 14%

barneygumble99

vw diesel cant be beaten on economy

George Dalton

George Dalton wrote: »

I think it would be a bit dangerous to assume that the CO2 tax bands will remain as they are. The amount of money the government is losing on motor tax means they will have to do something about it soon. The average cost of taxing a diesel saloon has gone from around €600 down to €156 or even €104. A normal family with 2 diesel cars has gone from paying €1200 road tax down to potentially €208. That isn't a sustainable situation.

Do you think that this could be a possibility?

George Dalton

Given the fact that they have to raise revenue from all sources I don't think they can ignore the money that is being lost in the motor tax and VRT areas. I think they will adjust the band cutoffs, up the rates or possibly even do both.

Frank Spencer

Just saw the term "diesel territory" used once or twice in this thread. What would be considered the lowest miles per week that you'd need to be doing to justify a diesel vehicle and at what point does it become a no-brainer to select a diesel?

September1

Frank Spencer wrote: »

Just saw the term "diesel territory" used once or twice in this thread. What would be considered the lowest miles per week that you'd need to be doing to justify a diesel vehicle and at what point does it become a no-brainer to select a diesel?

It also depends on age of the car. For example some brand new cars are cheaper to buy with diesel engines than with petrol ones, due to VRT tax rates. In that case any amount of miles per week makes diesel cheaper. For some used cars there could be massive price difference between those two fuels. Then they are costs of services, some diesel engines are indestructible and other have a lot of expensive equipment.

bandit14

barneygumble99 wrote: »

vw diesel cant be beaten on economy

I agree barney!

Frank Spencer

TheTorment wrote: »

Hi All

First time posting here but I hope you will advise me please.

I need a new car.

I travel about 450 miles each week between work and recreation.

I am aiming at buying around 2008/2009.

Am I better advised buying a diesel car over petrol? My father seems to believe I am as regards to road tax and price at the pumps. I have no clue myself!!

I have been looking at Ford Focuses as they seem to fit within my budget off 12/13K

I hope someone can advise me please

OK take the OP's example.

What mileage per week would be considered the lowest that he'd need to be doing to justify a diesel vehicle and at what point does it become a no-brainer for him to select a diesel?