Club Championships - Playing in the Muck

mickmcl09

It's a topic in almost every county at this time of year - Club vs County, and the panic to get the club fixture list completed. Just to get the topic started I wanted to put out a few points.

1. Club players and the club scene is playing 2nd fiddle to the county scene, right or wrong, at the end of the day the clubs are the foundation of the GAA and it doesn't make sense.

2. Club players are as much entitled for their 'day in the sun' on county final day as inter county players are during the summer months.

Et Cetera makes a very good point on the Waterford Thread.
Intercounty fixtures are a joke in general, the fact that replays can happen with 6 days notice throws everything into chaos. If there were no replays there would be much less panic. I honestly think the GAA needs to set aside club weekends where the club have to play their club games, and no intercounty games will be played on that weekend. most of the summer.

3. While it's great to have a few club provincial matches to watch on TG4 for the next few weeks, as a spectacle, the general standard is poor due to the weather and ground conditions. Why subject player and spectators alike to this?

4. Inter county managers have too much influence on the club fixture list.

Now, I think most pundits would agree that at inter county level, it was 'great for the game' to see:
Offaly make the break through in Hurling in the 80's, Clare and Wexford in the 90's and Waterford getting closer to the top as well.
In football, Donegal in the 90's, Roscommon minors in recent times and dare I say Dublin this year:)

The point I want to make is would it not be better and 'great for the game' at club level if the clubs that are fighting relegation year in, year out had a chance.

So, instead of inter county managers holding up the club scene, let the inter county managers decide whether his players are permitted to play or not in the club championships while the county is still in the championship.
If he doesn't, it would make club championships far more interesting - and please, I don't want to hear a rant from a pundit who supports a 'strong' club who has probably won 3 or more club championships in their county in the last 20 years, everybody is entitled to their day in the sun. (clubs like Nemo Rangers, Crossmaglen Rangers, Portumna and Ballyhale Shamrocks might not be too happy, but I think there would be more 'happy' clubs and 'happy' club players if this were the case).

Think of all the pluses for the game

- Good for rural Ireland. It's no secret that rural clubs are struggling with numbers because of the economy, it would be more of an incentive to stay if you thought you had a chance of winning a county championship.

- Good for club player. Playing on a good sod. Being able to organise holidays without waiting on the inter county scene hand and foot. Better family / GAA life / Work balance.

- Good for GAA. Potential to have much bigger crowds at club games. Again it's no secret that the coffers are struggling in some counties.

- Good for Counties Teams. If county players are exempt from club championship while they are still in the hunt for Sam or Liam. It means younger players in the big clubs are getting a chance to play at a higher level, thus increasing competition for places on county squads.

- Good for spectators. Currently the only opportunity to see a top quality match during the summer is to head off the Croke Park, Semple Stadium etc, etc. GAA supporters are struggling with this expense. Would it not be great to be able to travel to a local pitch in the summer months to see local clubs go at it hammer and tongs. That's how it used to be up until the mid 90's.

- Good for the Future. More kids would be brought to games as a result. I can't bring out the kids on a sh1te cold Sunday in October or November and risk them being sick for school on a Monday.

For anybody to say that this can't happen 'because the big powerful clubs won't allow it to happen' - that's nonsense.

The majority of clubs would fall into the category of either never having a chance of winning a county championship or at best 'fluking it' and getting to a semi or a final at the very best.

Clubs need to get together in their respective counties and make it happen for the future of GAA.

Brain Stroking

Totally agree with the sentiments above. To be honest it is for the above reasons that i stopped travelling home from Dublin to play for the club (i had put in 10 years playing senior by that stage so felt i wasnt letting anyone down). I just got sick of training hard from January to March, playing 4 league games in April, 1 championship in May and 1 in July and 1 in August, then 7 league games in October/November. All year spent training training training. No life except get in the car on Friday evening outside the office in Dublin and hope to be on the pitch for the last 40 mins of friday training.
There has to be more to life than that. So i called it a day. At the ripe old age of 28. A pity but the fixture lists were just too much to bear in the end. Am definitely not the only one to do it either.

Kerrydude1981

The ordinary club player is the forgotten man of the GAA world.

homerjay2005

sure what else would you be doing in the winter? i love playing football for as long as possible.

ive a match sunday, a county league game sunday week and we have local championship coming up in the next 4 weeks.

with the quality of pitches being top notch where i come from, i would expect to be playing in perfect conditions. the only problem is the wind, which ruins games at this time of year.

phkk

+1 very frustrating for the club players here in Kilkenny despite the success of the county team, which papers over alot of the cracks. The hurling season is effectively split in two- you start training in early Feb to get prepared for league matches in May (2). Then there is one in June, July and August. Knock out hurling begins in Sept, 2weeks after All-Ireland and so you've to up the ante really mid July at training to try peak at right time. A meaningless Mickey Mouse competition begins in June to give players a game(county players are exempt) but in reality, neither player/ manager gives a hoot. Training can lag during the summer months with very low numbers due to inactivity...so frustrating!
Question I always ask people is why can't we play knock out games in early July? Nobody here can give me a definitive answer but I'd hazard a guess that co board are afraid of losing hurlers to other sports? Surely, the season can be wrapped up for club player in 6 months. If a club is unsuccessful, it gives player time to go on holidays etc. We have a situation where a team that is involved in relegation plays on the same week as the two semi finalists! Ludicrous!we witnessed one of the worst county finals last Sunday played in the most unsuitable conditions. Attendance was at an all time low- you can't blame supporters from staying away. I know some might find it hard to believe but yes even in Kilkenny, it's very frustrating for the ordinary club player. My prediction will be that it will come to a head very soon!

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

sure what else would you be doing in the winter? i love playing football for as long as possible.

ive a match sunday, a county league game sunday week and we have local championship coming up in the next 4 weeks.

with the quality of pitches being top notch where i come from, i would expect to be playing in perfect conditions. the only problem is the wind, which ruins games at this time of year.

It's not a bad thing to have football going on into the Winter, but you have Munster club finals ending up seven points to six and shit like that due to the weather it's a bit of a disaster.

The marquee games in the annual club calendar should be played in perfect conditions, not on dark rainy December nights.

aidan24326

mickmcl09 wrote:

4. Inter county managers have too much influence on the club fixture list.

This right here is a big problem. County managers, many of them on a juicy expenses package, get to dictate as far as club fixtures go, in a purely self-serving way. The manager of the county team should get little or no say in when club fixtures are run, provided there's a bit of give and take on all sides and sense prevails.

It's a shame for the club player who trains all Summer and then has to play championship games in the wind and rain in October and November. A compromise could be reached where more club fixtures could happen in the Summer without having too much of an impact on the county schedule. But this will never while intercounty managers are allowed such power to dictate.

Something that else would help is every intercounty championship game, including the final, should go to extra-time and not straight to a replay. There's no reason why this can't happen (other than greed for €€€).

nice_guy80

the worst thing is that with Dublin winning the All Ireland having deferred their club championship, other counties will look to do the same

at least with Kerry and Kilkenny in years gone by they continued to play the games off during the summer but even they too have started to not let club championships go ahead

keane2097

Championship has never gone ahead in Kerry when the county team is still in the AI.

mickmcl09

keane2097 wrote: »

Championship has never gone ahead in Kerry when the county team is still in the AI.

When you say never, how far back are you going?
This has been a relatively recent thing in most counties, by that I mean since the early ninties. I know that in Clare, Ger Loughnane was the first Manager to put his foot down on the club championship. Before him senior club hurling took place through out the summer months. Also I can remember county finals being played in Waterford - late August and early September in the mid ninties.

Brain Stroking

homerjay2005 wrote: »

sure what else would you be doing in the winter? i love playing football for as long as possible.

ive a match sunday, a county league game sunday week and we have local championship coming up in the next 4 weeks.

with the quality of pitches being top notch where i come from, i would expect to be playing in perfect conditions. the only problem is the wind, which ruins games at this time of year.

You're missing the point though. A season with no defined end is unfair on the players involved. There is more to life than football. Holidays, weekends away, music festivals, stag do's, weddings all get affected at very short notice when the county team draws in championship and suddenly your free weekend is not free.
You describing yourself as someone that loves "playing football for as long as possible" also misses the point. Are you implying that those who want the club fixture mess resolved dont like playing football? Maybe you have nothing but football in your life. If you do then the fixture situation wont be as big an issue. You are in the vast minority though. Most people have other facets to their lives.

Kojak

keane2097 wrote: »

Championship has never gone ahead in Kerry when the county team is still in the AI.

Its not just in Kerry this happens. In Galway, both our Senior teams were out of their championships before the Galway races, yet the football final is only being played today (i know this year there was a dispute, but usually it only finishes up around now) while the hurling final is pencilled in for next Sunday.

Michael Cusack Centre

Mickmcl09 point of playing championship matches without county players would solve the issue of playing county finals in mud but when you look at rugby and see how the AIL is suffering once the big players stopped playing lead to attendance and interest dropping off hugely. If you take the county stars out of club hurling you risk its standing being eroded and a similar issue to club rugby happening to club hurling and football. It is still an valid argument and should be at least test to see if it is possible. November and hurling do not mix. Club players are the heart of the association and this issue needs to be resolved.

rn

Well we have had a situation in Roscommon the last few years where they have been trying to run the early rounds of the championship early in the year (round-robin basis). But its a pure farce because the county team have the county players up until the day of the championship match - they only might get the last token run out the day or 2 before the game and are expected to slot in - or to take another view of it push another loyal club player to the bench to make room! All in all it leaves all sides with a sour taste in their mouth.

For me it would be a great help if Fridays were NFL and NHL fixture days. Let the county players train all week with their county panels - they don't need to train witht he clubs, they get saturdays to recover and do other stuff and then All club games, on sunday @ 2:30, 3:30 and 4:30 slots... all clubs and teams out the same day in league games - league start.

or another proposal...

move to a situation where half the year is used for club leagues and championship and the other 6 months are used for county, perhaps allowing for some overlap towards knockout phases as it effects the minimum of players

mickmcl09

Michael Cusack Centre wrote: »

the AIL is suffering once the big players stopped playing lead to attendance and interest dropping off hugely. If you take the county stars out of club hurling you risk its standing being eroded and a similar issue to club rugby happening to club hurling and football. It is still an valid argument and should be at least test to see if it is possible. November and hurling do not mix.

November and hurling really don't mix, spot on.
It's a good and really valid point regarding the rugby as well and how it's been affected at AIL level. However, in many counties interest in GAA club games is already at an all time low. You're correct in saying that the standing may be eroded with some of the 'stars' missing, but I think playing the game on good ground would more than compensate for this.

As I said in the first post;
Good for spectators. Currently the only opportunity to see a top quality match during the summer is to head off the Croke Park, Semple Stadium etc, etc. GAA supporters are struggling with this expense. Would it not be great to be able to travel to a local pitch in the summer months to see local clubs go at it hammer and tongs. That's how it used to be up until the mid 90's.

The point here is that you'd be moving the games to the summer months making it a better proposition to go to as a spectacle.

The GAA club scene differs from AIL as well, in the sense that the none of the GAA players are pro's where as in the top AIL teams I'd imagine a good portion of them are either full time or almost full time rugby players.

In reference to some of the other posts regarding Kerry or Galway or whatever county and the club championship games going on til recently, who cares. And who cares that it has been going on for however long. The changes for the club scene will not happen unless there is the will among the majority of clubs to make it happen.
The weaker senior clubs need to realise that they will benefit more from the changes, they are in the majority at these meetings and they should have the foresight to push the changes through.

Also all clubs need to wake up and realise that a fixture list is a fixture list and it should go ahead unless there's a hurricane or the pitch is flooded. The days of looking for leeway to defer senior club games for any reason including a local bereavement shouldn't be tolerated Re: Kildare - Dermot Early I'm sure would have been a very proud man looking down, god rest his soul.

And (sorry for ranting) small clubs looking to defer games because there strongest senior player could be playing an intercounty minor game within the same few days - really gets my goat - get out there and get stuck in!

Unfortunately much of the GAA administration still lives in the dark ages and club delegates do too much brown nosing at the county meetings.
It will be a long time before changes are made, perhaps the GPA would start taking more of an interest in the club players plight as well.

The other problem with the Senior Club scene is the Paddy's day final tradition. GAA wouldn't be big on changing tradition.
Alternative suggestions:
Have the league played, done and dusted with the finals on Paddy's day.
Or, the Railway Cup, which may as well be dead and burined in it's current state, played on Paddy's Day.

Have the Club scene throughout the summer, with or without inter county players as each county see fit and have the All Ireland Club finals in late September or 1st or 2nd week of October at the latest.

The current set up, you could win a county championship in September and if you're lucky enough to be togging out in Croke Park on Paddy's day, that 6 months of hard slog in the mud, at the end of the day only one team can win, where's the fun or the sense in that for the majority of our members.