What is this "life" people talk of ?

MungBean

What is your life ? People say things like "My life was on hold" or "My life is back on track".

It used to be all about survival, life was the act of surviving but in the modern age its no longer about surviving its about experiencing it seems. I seen a program about someone who got lost in a national park in America for few months. He ate, he slept, he moved around, wasnt hurt, wasnt starving and was eventually rescued. I switched the channel and see a guy in the exact same scenario with the exception that he wanted to be there in the wild living in that manner.

So two people in the same environment surviving in the same manner, one is happy to call that a life, the other needed to be rescued from it because that wasnt his "life".

When did it change from a life of survival to a life of experience ? I understand its not like that everywhere, people in more disadvantaged places are still living lives that could be classed as "barely surviving" so I assume with wealth comes less responsibility to take care of your own survival and thus can live a life of experience rather than just reaction to survive.

So can you only really have a "life" when you are free from having to survive ? If you still need to do something you dont want to do to survive then your life is not what you want and therefore you essential dont have a life and are just surviving ?

Not many people are free to do all they please without having to take care of the necessary things needed to survive. So people who say "My life is on hold because of this or that" are under the illusion that they have a "life" when really they are just surviving in whatever way is easiest for them and mistaking it for a "life" as such. Basically living under the illusion that their experiences are more than just survival.

Are we experiencing our survival or are with surviving to experience ?


Edit: Please move to Philosophy if necessary, I wasnt sure where to put it.

biko

It seems some people think life is a product. They see happy people in ads doing happy things and if their own life doesn't conform to that made-up scenario they are not happy.

I've heard people say "This isn't living" and by that they must mean "This isn't a good life".

For most of the 7bn on the planet life is still about day to day survival.

MungBean

biko wrote: »

It seems some people think life is a product. They see happy people in ads doing happy things and if their own life doesn't conform to that made-up scenario they are not happy.

I've heard people say "This isn't living" and by that they must mean "This isn't a good life".

For most of the 7bn on the planet life is still about day to day survival.

So for most people it is about survival but always aspiring to be beyond it ? I suppose it boils down to money then, enough money and you will be beyond just surviving or is that just a myth created from commercialism ? With each level an opportunity to get to the next and acquire more money, possessions, power. But its all a myth and a life of power, wealth and freedom is no different than basic survival if you think it no different ?

Sleepy

There's definitely a point at which more money simply can't enhance your life any further. I think this is why faddish religions like Kaballah and Scientology are so popular with the likes of Tom Cruise, Madonna, John Travolta etc. These people can pretty much buy any product or service they can think of (Travolta has his own Boeing 747 for example!) and at this point they start to seek "spiritual" satisfaction.

I guess it all boils down to Maslow's hierarchy of needs: once you've satisfied the most basic level of need to survive, you aspire to less and less "necessary" or tangible things. In many ways, this is what makes humanity so great. Yes, it leads to greed and the social consequences of that but it's also what makes us strive for more than mere survival: it's what's taken us to the moon and will take us beyond it: perhaps even within our lifetimes!

MungBean

Sleepy wrote: »

There's definitely a point at which more money simply can't enhance your life any further. I think this is why faddish religions like Kaballah and Scientology are so popular with the likes of Tom Cruise, Madonna, John Travolta etc. These people can pretty much buy any product or service they can think of (Travolta has his own Boeing 747 for example!) and at this point they start to seek "spiritual" satisfaction.

I guess it all boils down to Maslow's hierarchy of needs: once you've satisfied the most basic level of need to survive, you aspire to less and less "necessary" or tangible things. In many ways, this is what makes humanity so great. Yes, it leads to greed and the social consequences of that but it's also what makes us strive for more than mere survival: it's what's taken us to the moon and will take us beyond it: perhaps even within our lifetimes!

Hadnt actually heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I'd like to read up on early civilisation. I dont know whether that was a turning point or whether the same traits were inherent in people even in tribal times as regards aspiring to be beyond survival. Could be that that itself is greed or was born of greed rather than greed being a symptom of it.

Thats the age old argument of whether humans are inherently greedy though I suppose.

Sleepy

MungBean, think about it: how could man have developed from a primitive savage without the innate desire for more? As a species we clearly survived before we invented tools, fire, the wheel etc. It must have been the perception of a need for more which led to the discovery / invention of these things, mustn't it?

gugleguy

Does one want to stand out from the crowd / follow the crowd?

pros of following the crowd:

I'm not the odd man out
No man an island
I keep up with the Jones's

pros of standing out of the crowd:

I am not a lemming
I am my own boss

How successful does one feel of the above, in the context of "life"?

MungBean

Sleepy wrote: »

MungBean, think about it: how could man have developed from a primitive savage without the innate desire for more? As a species we clearly survived before we invented tools, fire, the wheel etc. It must have been the perception of a need for more which led to the discovery / invention of these things, mustn't it?

Not necessarily a innate desire for more, just a desire to have what you need. There is no reason for primitive man to desire more than he needed. The need to adapt to survive is what led to discovery and invention.

Greed is a desire to possess which may have came from the need to protect oneself and territory or if inherent then possibly coming from the alpha males urge to control. But is that desire to possess or defend ? And did it develop into the desire to possess with the likes of agriculture that created an abundance that could be possessed.

I'm talking about actual greed not primitive wants to satisfy necessity but desire to own and possess which may not have been inherent in primitive man but certainly came to the forefront with the abundance of resources and the way people desired to own those resources.

MungBean

gugleguy wrote: »

Does one want to stand out from the crowd / follow the crowd?

pros of following the crowd:

I'm not the odd man out
No man an island
I keep up with the Jones's

pros of standing out of the crowd:

I am not a lemming
I am my own boss

How successful does one feel of the above, in the context of "life"?

But its the feeling of success that I'm talking about more so than how you achieve it. I may want to be part of the crowd and enjoy the safety of that. you may want to stand out and enjoy the attention from that. But we both call that success when we achieve it even though they are opposites.

But are we both pretending its success to satisfy our ego's when in actuality the fact that we both survived and are well nourished and can reproduce or are happy is the success and what we have actually done is filled in the time by deluding ourself with these achievements ?

Boskowski

1st world life is defined by consumerism. Your life is on hold when you don't consume as much as you think is your fair share or so.

Capt'n Midnight

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.

slowburner

MungBean wrote: »

Not necessarily a innate desire for more, just a desire to have what you need. There is no reason for primitive man to desire more than he needed. The need to adapt to survive is what led to discovery and invention.

Greed is a desire to possess which may have came from the need to protect oneself and territory or if inherent then possibly coming from the alpha males urge to control. But is that desire to possess or defend ? And did it develop into the desire to possess with the likes of agriculture that created an abundance that could be possessed.

I'm talking about actual greed not primitive wants to satisfy necessity but desire to own and possess which may not have been inherent in primitive man but certainly came to the forefront with the abundance of resources and the way people desired to own those resources.

MungBean

slowburner wrote: »

*picture*

Maslow's hierarchy of needs has already been pointed out to me in the thread. Could you possibly offer some explanation with that picture in relation to the quoted post ?

At what point in the chart does greed come into it ? Is greed a different manifestation of inherent needs which arose in a time of abundance or has greed always been part of the process of satisfying ones needs. ?

In looking through Maslow's hierarchy and related material "life" may be the movement towards self actualisation. But it doesnt change the initial question, is desire for self actualisation anything more than what you think it is and once it is realised will it be replaced by another desire for self actualisation and if there is no desire to self actualise then does that equate to not having a "life" ? Obviously not as no matter how bad it is and how little you achieve its still a life.

My question was when did that "life" become a conscious human design and not just survival. Or is it still just survival and whatever form it takes and circumstances we find ourselves in we assign importance to unnecessary things and achievements to placate our minds which have become self aware ?

looksee

I would have thought that greed comes somewhere between 'esteem needs' and 'belonging' needs if you consider that 'belonging' includes 'security' in the emotional sense.

Why are people greedy? Presumably it is a continuation of a child's instinct to satisfy it's own needs in the face of competition from siblings, and also the presumption that having more of 'things' ensures respect from other people.

saa

Surviving goes without staying, I don't strive for a life of experiencing good and new things as much as I strive to keep my mental health a float for me that is my life.

Although I do wonder what is my life? I don't like to think about it but the life I think I should have comes to mind on a daily basis.

MungBean

looksee wrote: »

I would have thought that greed comes somewhere between 'esteem needs' and 'belonging' needs if you consider that 'belonging' includes 'security' in the emotional sense.

Why are people greedy? Presumably it is a continuation of a child's instinct to satisfy it's own needs in the face of competition from siblings, and also the presumption that having more of 'things' ensures respect from other people.

But is a child satisfying its needs in the face of competition greed in itself ? I dont think it is, I think its survival instinct. Greed may well have developed from that but at which point and what was the cause of the development ? And would you think it possible to eliminate greed by raising a child with no competition ?

MungBean

If anyone can recommend any books of this sort of thing I'd be much obliged.

slowburner

Sorry for dumping that Maslow's hierarchy picture on the thread without any text. I didn't notice the other references to it .

As to where greed fits into such a schematic - it doesn't. A person motivated by greed cannot realise their potential, or self-actualise, as Maslow would put it.

Fr.Harry Bell

Surely the gift of God's love and the promise of eternal happiness would be the main 'life' reason.

That's my aim anyway.

God Bless.