overmod

Curry Addict

just my opinion and some feedback. PI and RI forums are a little over modded at the moment. mods do a great job in general and fair play but its a little annoying to see so many people pulled up on such minor issues, it disturbs the flow. sometimes less is more.
i havent personally been invloved so its an objective opinion, thanks.

Silverfish

PI has always been strictly moderated.

People don't want to read pages of bickering between posters when they just want advice, so we warn on thread immediately to avoid that.

People don't want to be abused or generalised against, so we warn on thread to clarify that.

People don't want to read off-topic banter between posters when they just want advice, so we warn for that on thread.

And so on.

I think what you're seeing is possibly more people ignoring / not reading the charter and being pulled up on it, rather than mods over-moderating.

It may disturb the 'flow', but it sends the message to all on what is / is not acceptable in the forum.

Ickle Magoo

By over-modded do you mean that posters are being actioned or warned even though they haven't breached forum or site rules? Or do you mean the forum charter is too strict? Or that mods shouldn't be requesting that forum/site rules are read/respected across the board?

Taltos

Thanks OP for this feedback.
Up until yesterday I had been leaning more on in-thread warnings (no official mark on a user's ID), but I can see now that this is just causing confusion.

PI/RI has two simple rules when you break the Charters down. To quote
1. zero tolerance for muppetry.
2. STUPIDITY IS A BANNABLE OFFENCE.

For all offenses the normal approach can be followed - discuss via PM with the Mod and the Dispute Resolution process.
Hopefully as posters see that any/all breaches of the charter are dealt with in the same way the frequency of posts requiring moderation will reduce and hence threads will flow more naturally again.

Above all else though - I will continue to rely on feedback both from posts and from mods/admins to ensure that I too stay within the guidelines which are in place to protect the OP and encourage helpful and constructive advice.

T.

Curry Addict

thanks for the replys guys. I guess what im trying to say in better words is...

in the case of very minor infractions it can look a bit like the teacher child scenario where the child is made an example of publicly in front of the class which feels a little OTT for such a minor thing. If done very often it can feel a bit heavy handed and disturb the flow of treads. A PM would be more appropriate imho.
thanks again for listening keep up the good work!

Oryx

Curry Addict wrote: »

thanks for the replys guys. I guess what im trying to say in better words is...

in the case of very minor infractions it can look a bit like the teacher child scenario where the child is made an example of publicly in front of the class which feels a little OTT for such a minor thing. If done very often it can feel a bit heavy handed and disturb the flow of treads. A PM would be more appropriate imho.
thanks again for listening keep up the good work!

I get your point, but the problem with that is that the majority of moderation needs to be visible to the regular user. Otherwise there can be a feeling that we are hiding things or sweeping issues under the carpet. Its the same reason the DRP process is public, so everyone can see the system at work. Public warnings and infractions also remind other users of what is and is not appropriate.

And yet there is some behind the scenes work. Some things are handled by pm, a lot of the time there is an ongoing discussion process by pm after a warning or infraction is given. Regular users will never know this happens.

We depend heavily on the reported post function. A lot of the time our responses are because a post has been reported. Reports happen because regular users feel such posts are out of line, so its not just us coming down hard because we feel like it.

We do have to walk a fine line in PI/RI, we need to keep any threads tightly within the bounds of the issue at hand, and we need to also respect the efforts of those who try to help. It does help to get feedback like this too, we do pay attention to it, and will bear in mind the perception of the moderating we do.

Beruthiel

Curry Addict wrote: »

just my opinion and some feedback. PI and RI forums are a little over modded at the moment.

Actually it's not.
If anything, the current Mods are a tad lenient at times.
Back when I moderated that forum you either stayed strictly on topic or you got banned.
Most issues in those forums are very sensitive and any kind of messing is unacceptable.

in the case of very minor infractions it can look a bit like the teacher child scenario where the child is made an example of publicly in front of the class which feels a little OTT for such a minor thing

That has always been the way this site is moderated.
If a Mod does not post an on thread warning, how are other users to know what is and isn't acceptable?
If someone breaks the Charter of a particular forum, it is because they have not read it. Thus, they have only themselves to blame.

Now, I shall leave this thread open for a while in order to give the OP time to post up example links to what they are referring to.

Sweeping statements, without evidence, can achieve nothing.

pickarooney

I think the cutting and pasting of the charter with 'Have a nice day' or whatever comes across as a bit obtuse or passive-aggressive and adds one more OT post to the thread. Personally I think it should be standard practice to just delete OT posts in PI/RI.

Ickle Magoo

pickarooney wrote: »

I think the cutting and pasting of the charter with 'Have a nice day' or whatever comes across as a bit obtuse or passive-aggressive and adds one more OT post to the thread. Personally I think it should be standard practice to just delete OT posts in PI/RI.

"Have a nice day" was theadydal's thing and she doesn't mod PI any more. It used to be that there was no thanks on the end of warnings and that was moaned about being too harsh and unfriendly in another feedback thread so now there's "many thanks" or whatever added.

In the case of on-thread warnings with a link to read the charter, which is quite big, specifying the particular transgression means there is less "what did I do wrong?" to-and-fro and the other posters know whatever has been picked up on is not permitted.

As you'll be all too aware, on-thread warnings/infractions are the first step that the thread is going AWOL or the post is breaching the charter in what can be quite long and fast moving threads. Deleting posts just leads to a heap of other posts asking where the posts have gone, posts that are often quoted and responded to elsewhere which would mean in some cases deleting whole rafts of the thread - and often it's a good point well made barring a couple of lines, so it would be very heavy handed and not necessarily to the benefit of the OP to just delete the whole post. in that case I think it's just a case of not being able to please all of the people, all of the time.

Curry Addict wrote:

thanks for the replys guys. I guess what im trying to say in better words is...

in the case of very minor infractions it can look a bit like the teacher child scenario where the child is made an example of publicly in front of the class which feels a little OTT for such a minor thing. If done very often it can feel a bit heavy handed and disturb the flow of treads. A PM would be more appropriate imho.
thanks again for listening keep up the good work!

I do appreciate your point but I'm not quite sure how to get around that issue - if mod action is taken in private then there are accusations of not being transparent and of course, other posters aren't made aware that there has been a breach in rules, or that a poster who is perhaps causing reported posts or on-thread arguments has been dealt with.

While it may break the flow to anyone using the thread as an entertaining read - it does stop the thread meandering into places that the OP didn't specifically request discussion on or about - and at the end of the day, that is what PI/RI's purpose is.

Curry Addict

I appreciate the comments made so far. Im sure modding is a difficult balancing act considering the different styles required for different forums. When posts are reported and people argue etc most definitely a reaction from mods needs to be seen and transparency is important. I have been reading these forums since 2003 so I have seen the form down through the years.
For very minor infractions, I don’t think the average poster(not the infractor) who posts here needs or wants constant reminders of the boundries in treads or transparency. Hence a PM maybe a better option.

A couple of examples below………..

Originally Posted by geeby
pack her stuff for her and order her a taxi

PAULWATSON wrote: »

You said it pal.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

PAULWATSON, that's why we have the thanks button. If you have no constructive advice to offer the OP then kindly refrain from posting.

Please take the time to read the forum rules in the charter and abide by them.

Many thanks

Its not the most eloquent way of putting it but the poster is simply saying +1 for a certain course of action rather than thanking the poster. In isolation, a post like this should be tolerated but further posts like this in the same tread may not, understandably. Maybe a PM about being more constructive would suffice.

Emme wrote: »

That doesn't work, they just shout "NEXT!" if you do that.

I think it's the way guys are. There's a minority who are very shy and afraid to approach girls, some of them post here. Unfortunately the majority don't treat girls very well and this behaviour is par for the course.

My advice is enjoy the moment and don't get your hopes up because if you do you'll get hurt.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Emme, please do not flame and making sweeping generalisations based purely on someone's gender.

If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the forum rules in the charter.

Many thanks.

I think this one was a little harsh. I don’t see a flame in what Emme is saying. It reads like an empassioned reaction to me. Yes it’s a sweeping generalisation but the OPs issue is vague. When resolving vague issues, start with the general and work towards the specific is not a bad strategy. I don’t feel it required moderation and its not really against anything in the charter. It may be a good idea to give tips to the poster in a PM as to how their post could be more constructive though.

@Ickle Magoo I just picked two instances here at random, im not pointing the finger, you just happened to be the moderator involved. This post is not directed at you,Thanks.

thanks for listening just some honest feedback!

Ickle Magoo

I don't know how much detail I should go into on specific cases....

The thanks button was introduced precisely to avoid threads being peppered with +1's and "what she said"s...it's also quite common for trolls and posters who want to flout the rules to cherry pick other posters posts and make some off-the-cuff comment or jibe about it...I don't think expecting posters to offer some constructive advice of their own is asking too much? There also posters prior history to take into account when dealing with such responses, if someone has 25 infractions for trolling and then throws out a silly comment in PI, it's probably going to get them an on-thread warning not to go down that road.

Generalisations about entire genders or races or whatever, which really are making no point to the OP but using the OP's thread as a platform to bitch or have a pop at others just results in a slew of reported posts if we're lucky and a load of posts ignoring the OP and their issue and arguing against the generalisation if we aren't. It's not helpful to the OP at all and to avoid threads turning into car-crashes it's something we try to stop happening, and to show other posters who would react that it's been dealt with.

Again with the PM's - that is behind the scene, it doesn't address the issue of posters who object to such statements or have reported them - and it doesn't deal with the transparency complaints that let to moderator action being on-thread and obvious...we have a charter, the rules are clear, I'm not sure how much hand-holding the mods should be doing Vs on-thread requests that the rules are adhered to? If it's agree it should be more then I'll happily do that.

Taltos

If I can also come in on that thanks button
I have had to remind a number of posters to it's use on a number of threads - most especially where all they say is something like above. I have seen posters get immediate red and yellow cards for responses like this for being in breach of our charter.

In terms of the Emme post - Ickle beat me to it - the post from Emme was Flaming - that majority statement gets thrown around an awful lot and personally I am tired of responses that only trigger gender wars, again flaming responses normally get red cards at the discretion of the mod and in this case Ickle actually cut the poster some slack.

Sorry for jumping in - hope another viewpoint helps in our rationale.

Beruthiel

Curry Addict wrote: »

I think this one was a little harsh.

They weren't.
The three examples you gave above, a comment from the Mod was required in both cases.
The Mod in question acted correctly.

Dropping someone a PM is not visible to everyone else and does not help others to see what is and isn't acceptable.

looksee

It seems to me the examples given were reasonable and proper responses within the environment of PI. If someone is troubled enough to post in PI they need very carefully controlled replies. One person's humour is another person's sarcasm on the internet.

D

I think that for threads in personal issues any disruptive behaviour should be stamped out immediately.

People go there for advice, very often about topics that they find embarrassing or very difficult to talk about.

They are exposing themselves.

For this reason any off-topic banter can feel as if people are not respecting them or empathising with them.

Any muppetry or trolling should be dealt with zero tolerance.

The first rule of boards.ie has repeatedly been said to be "Don't be a dick."

Being a dick is bad, being a dick to someone who is emotionally vulnerable is even worse.

Personally I think that the mods should land on anyone being a dick so hard that they never do it again and that anyone else who sees it happen will never think about doing it either.