Can I do this?

dee.

Long story short.. I am renting a house that has turned out to be the house from hell and we are moving out. When I moved in 6 months ago I had a high quality wooden flooring imported and installed in one of the rooms, I had intended to leave it there when I moved out in the future, however we were supposed to stay in the house for 5 years so I seen it as an investment somewhat because I would get plenty of use from it (not now as i'm already moving out!) Am I allowed to remove the floor and take it with me? The landlord had one of his friends put it down, however I paid for the floor myself and LL left his old flooring (lino) underneath it. I would like to remove it asap before any viewings take place so any help appreciated. Thank you.

D3PO

is it reuseable ?

If its yours and you can remove it without any damage to the house including without having damaged the lino that was underneath then yes you can remove it of course.

mind you you refer to 5 years in your post. Do you have a 5 year lease ? if so do you have a break clause ?

dee.

D3PO wrote: »

is it reuseable ?

If its yours and you can remove it without any damage to the house including without having damaged the lino that was underneath then yes you can remove it of course.

mind you you refer to 5 years in your post. Do you have a 5 year lease ? if so do you have a break clause ?

I have no clue to be honest! I haven't tried to take it up yet as I wanted to be sure I was allowed. I just assumed I could reuse the middle (but obviously not the end pieces that have been cut exactly to fit the room) It looks like it snaps/clicks together if that makes a difference.

D3PO

dee. wrote: »

I have no clue to be honest! I haven't tried to take it up yet as I wanted to be sure I was allowed. I just assumed I could reuse the middle (but obviously not the end pieces that have been cut exactly to fit the room) It looks like it snaps/clicks together if that makes a difference.

I ask as most of those floors and glued aswell as clicked. if it glued then its useless to you as its not reuseable.

Ray Palmer

Highly unlikely it is reusable and you would actually want to agree it with the LL as it is change to what you originally agreed. That is going on what you said so far. What did you actually agree with the LL?

If he paid to have it installed he may have a fair point that cost is yours now you are removing it. You are probably going to lose your deposit for breaking a lease.

It really depends on what was said when you were getting it put in.

dee.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Highly unlikely it is reusable and you would actually want to agree it with the LL as it is change to what you originally agreed. That is going on what you said so far. What did you actually agree with the LL?

If he paid to have it installed he may have a fair point that cost is yours now you are removing it. You are probably going to lose your deposit for breaking a lease.

It really depends on what was said when you were getting it put in.

There wasn't really much said about it when I was putting it in. The lino was very cheap looking and I made it clear that I would be replacing the floor. I ordered the floor to have it delivered to the house (a few days before we moved in, but LL said one of his workers would be around to collect the delivery) and when I got back that evening one of the guys who works for him was already putting it down. I never asked him to do so and I had actually asked in the place I bought the flooring for details of someone to put it down for me.

LL promised a lot of things he didn't keep his word on and is generally horrible to deal with. I do not want to leave the floor unless I am required to by law, I paid a lot of money for it. The house is barely liveable and he was given a list of things to fix (by inspector) and hasn't done everything..despite him knowing this since we moved in but being requested to do it for about 3 months now. We also gave him flooring for another room which we are leaving behind. Also we aren't breaking the lease, the lease is invalid because the house doesn't meet the standards (health inspector confirmed this in report) and no BER cert.

o1s1n

I'm pretty sure those floors that snap together can be unsnapped easily enough? I remember my dad putting one down in the sitting room and they just slotted together. No glue or anything like that.

If he's that horrible of a person, and removing it wouldn't damage his floor, then I'd be taking it with me. Whether it's usable when it's taken up or not.

dee.

o1s1n wrote: »

I'm pretty sure those floors that snap together can be unsnapped easily enough? I remember my dad putting one down in the sitting room and they just slotted together. No glue or anything like that.

If he's that horrible of a person, and removing it wouldn't damage his floor, then I'd be taking it with me. Whether it's usable when it's taken up or not.

Yeah, I didn't want to sound like a b1tch but thats how I feel too. If he had been a good LL I wouldn't be so pushed on taking it with me, despite the money i paid for it. We had to live with window frames that were rotting (barely any frame actually left because most of it was gone) for 6 months even though he promised he'd have them replaced within 3 weeks of us moving in. The blinds on all of the windows were white when put up but mostly black now because of mold. I left my handbag on the ground for 2 days and all of the letters inside it were tearing/damp when I took them out. All of the wood in the house is rotting (lots of presses/wardrobes) and he won't replace them. Endless list of problems really.

Juwwi

If its semi solid or solid its useless but if its laminate you could take it up.

Any chance of posting a picture of it?

Ray Palmer

dee. wrote: »

Also we aren't breaking the lease, the lease is invalid because the house doesn't meet the standards (health inspector confirmed this in report) and no BER cert.

Hate to break it to you but that is still breaking the lease. No BER still does not allow you to break a lease no matter who tells you.

The health inspector doesn't inspect houses, I think an environmental officer does. You can contact them to get him to do it but he does have time to make the changes. You have grounds to break the lease but just saying he hasn't met his agreements doesn't mean you can just leave and get your deposit back.

If it was expensive flooring it won't just click together like the cheap stuff. Installation is expensive quite often comparable to the price of the materials. Paying for the materials does not mean you own the floor I'd talk to him and come to some agreement, if you rip it up that could be seen as criminal damage. That is different from breaking a legal agreement

dee.

robbie1977 wrote: »

If its semi solid or solid its useless but if its laminate you could take it up.

Any chance of posting a picture of it?

I'm not in my room right now but have these pictures from my blog which show the floor..

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/5820479891_5dfcbbb17e_z.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6024/5894593329_5cf40ab095_z.jpg

One thing the LL did pay for is this white finish thing around the edge of the floor, I have no idea of the name but you can see it in this picture between the floor and the baseboard:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/6017736743_fd0fd01f90_z.jpg
I don't think its that expensive and my room is smaller than a single room, so I could give him whatever the cost would be.

At the door its "unfinished", I don't have pictures but theres nothing between the little step and the flooring so I think it would be easy to try and lift it from there maybe? I can take a picture later if I know i'm allowed go ahead and remove it!

dee.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but that is still breaking the lease. No BER still does not allow you to break a lease no matter who tells you.

The health inspector doesn't inspect houses, I think an environmental officer does. You can contact them to get him to do it but he does have time to make the changes. You have grounds to break the lease but just saying he hasn't met his agreements doesn't mean you can just leave and get your deposit back.

If it was expensive flooring it won't just click together like the cheap stuff. Installation is expensive quite often comparable to the price of the materials. Paying for the materials does not mean you own the floor I'd talk to him and come to some agreement, if you rip it up that could be seen as criminal damage. That is different from breaking a legal agreement

I don't know how much the floor is worth, but I do know it was more expensive (Extra fees) because they had to order it in especially for me. I think I paid about €400 which is expensive to me, considering the room is very small (smaller than a standard single room) and I have about 1/2 a box left over in the garage. I don't really care about breaking the lease or not, TBH my health and sanity are more important to me than staying in a house that isn't fit for living in. I don't remember what the correct title of the inspector was but she did give him a list of things to fix, about 3 months ago, and he hasn't fixed all of them. The patio door came off the frame and fell down the other day, just luckily I was facing it and caught it, otherwise it could have did serious damage to me (massive glass door) LL is not stupid, he knows what needs to be done but is too tight to spend the money to do the work needed. LL already knows we are moving out.

Juwwi

Sorry I cant tell by the pictures.
Hopefully someone else will be able to.

Victor

Make complaint to PRTB. Include a claim for the flooring - you might not get paid the full amount, but you might get something.

dee.

Victor wrote: »

Make complaint to PRTB. Include a claim for the flooring - you might not get paid the full amount, but you might get something.

Is that my only option? Can I not just take it up or would that be breaking the law? He didn't ask me to put down the flooring, I bought it myself, so i don't know if making a claim would work in my favor

Ray Palmer

Victor wrote: »

Make complaint to PRTB. Include a claim for the flooring - you might not get paid the full amount, but you might get something.

He might not get anything at all for the floor. It is part of the building now. If the inspector has been there within the last 3 months and hasn't come back he still has time to fix the issues. I thought they gave 3 months but it maybe 6 months to fix the issues. If was actually "dangerous" they remove the tenants. I would be curious about the list of problems. I got one once and it was a complete joke. The returning inspector told me I didn't need to do half of them and the other guy had been over zealous. A fire exit sign in a two storey house seemed stupid to me.

dee.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

He might not get anything at all for the floor. It is part of the building now. If the inspector has been there within the last 3 months and hasn't come back he still has time to fix the issues. I thought they gave 3 months but it maybe 6 months to fix the issues. If was actually "dangerous" they remove the tenants. I would be curious about the list of problems. I got one once and it was a complete joke. The returning inspector told me I didn't need to do half of them and the other guy had been over zealous. A fire exit sign in a two storey house seemed stupid to me.

I don't have the report to hand, but thats not really relevant here because my question isn't really related to the condition of the house, I just want to know about the flooring I paid for. As I said, we are moving. LL has his notice. I didn't ask him to put down the floor (i was going to pay someone to do it myself) but I appreciate that he did. If he wants me to pay that guy for the few hours it took, I will. I am just going to take up the floor, his lino is underneath. I'm leaving the floor in the other room and he got the house nicely painted too. Mods you can close this thread now, thanks.

Victor

The risk is that there might be damage to the lino.

dee.

Victor wrote: »

The risk is that there might be damage to the lino.

Would the damage really be that bad? The floor hasn't been down that long, since earlier this year. If all goes to all I can buy some cheap lino and replace it, the one underneath my floor was well worn anyways. The room is very small, smaller than a single room, so the cost to replace the lino won't be huge if it is something I need to do.
Thanks so much for all of the replies everyone - I will make sure theres some kind of flooring put down if the lino is damaged from the wooden floor.

Ray Palmer

dee. wrote: »

I don't have the report to hand, but thats not really relevant here because my question isn't really related to the condition of the house, I just want to know about the flooring I paid for. As I said, we are moving. LL has his notice. I didn't ask him to put down the floor (i was going to pay someone to do it myself) but I appreciate that he did. If he wants me to pay that guy for the few hours it took, I will. I am just going to take up the floor, his lino is underneath. I'm leaving the floor in the other room and he got the house nicely painted too. Mods you can close this thread now, thanks.

I don't think you quite get the point. The LL can charge you for the entire year legally if you annoy him. You are better off making sure he doesn't object. Considering the floor is most likely useless to you anyway you are better off coming to an agreement. Just becasue you bought it doesn't make it yours no matter how you feel about it. It has been put in place and is now a fixture. You are in a very grey area to claim you own it.

The fact you have given notice means doesn't mean you can just walk away. If you didn't give in writing you could certainly be in more trouble if the LL gets annoyed. It certainly wouldn't look good if you ripped out flooring and you were in court. Your choice but I think you would be foolish to not spend 5 minutes talking to him before you do something that could be criminal damage. You wouldn't be doing yourself any favours

Grolschevik

Just on a technicality, I'm sure you really mean...

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The LL can pursue you legally through the courts for specific performance of your contractual obligations for the entire year legally if you annoy him.

... And the cost of going legal may not be worth it, depending on the amount of outstanding rent and the probabilities of (a) winning, and (b) getting costs awarded to him. I'd say in the circumstances where there has been at least some official notice of the property not being up to standard, the chances of being successful in such an action may be unclear.

However, I ANAL, (Always wanted to do that!) so I might be wrong... (And in Mississippi law, I almost certainly am).

wyndham

I wouldn't bother lifting it tbh. Where are you moving to? Do you have somewhere else to put the floor down?

You will almost certainly damage the skirting and/or the floor, and even if you don't, there will be a gap between the skirt and the lino where you took the floor.

I would say it's unusable anyway. What are you going to do with it? If damp on the floor was such an issue, the boards could be damp too and warped, black on the underside, etc.

Leave it and see if there is any chance of getting a few bob off the landlord for it. Ask him if he wants to buy it, letting on that you have every intention of taking it with you.

Ray Palmer

Grolschevik wrote: »

Just on a technicality, I'm sure you really mean...



... And the cost of going legal may not be worth it, depending on the amount of outstanding rent and the probabilities of (a) winning, and (b) getting costs awarded to him. I'd say in the circumstances where there has been at least some official notice of the property not being up to standard, the chances of being successful in such an action may be unclear.

However, I ANAL, (Always wanted to do that!) so I might be wrong... (And in Mississippi law, I almost certainly am).

He just has to bring it to the PRTB no major legal costs. He has a time limit on when the work needs to be done so will be alright on that legal notice. Essentially the LL is still legal by the laws here. The tenant is breaking an agreement. The technicallity of what you said doesn't really add anything the LL has cheap legal recource while the tenant doesn't. To take up the flooring is very unlikely worth the hassle or the cost. As this is Ireland strangely Irish law comes into play.
Best option is to talk to the LL and come to an agreement rather than just rip up the floor that is very unlikely to be usable anyway.

dee.

Sorry guys, I didn't mention in my OP but our contract is actually just for 6 months initially and monthly basis there after. We did intend on staying around 5 yrs but that is not in the contract. We talked to Citizensadvice, Threshold, solicitor, etc. already and need to give the landlord a notice (done) and we are perfectly ok to leave. As for the flooring, if I take out my wooden floor and there is some kind of damage to his lino underneath, I can replace it with other lino. I really doubt LL is going to bring me to court over the flooring considering his house isn't up to the standard and he hasn't even got a BER cert to show us, which is an offense itself. I got a shock because of the dodgy wiring in the house, health problems because of damp/mold (DR confirmed the cause), hundreds of euros worth of clothes/belongings covered in mold, among other things that I could have potentially tried to sue him for. He calls over and lets himself in when we are not at home (has another key). I got out of the shower one day to find two strange men in the house..LL had let them in to do some handywork... pretty sure it says in our contract he is supposed to give us notice for calling over yet never does. He already has another tenant for this house who is coming to view it in two weeks so I would like to have the floor replaced by then. I called up the company I bought it from and they said its possible to reuse it though obviously the parts that are cut won't be useable. TBH, even if the floor isn't useable I would still prefer to take it with me. LL deserves nothing. Oh and just to add, because I know someone may pick up on it, the damp/mold is caused because there is NO vents in the house at all but we do open the windows for most of the day every day (which our contract says we have to do)

cson

Just fyi for some participants; Contract Law and Land Law are not one and the same.

ROCKMAN

If they where laid right there should be no damage to lino ,, They are click boards (well look like them for photos 95% sure ) and you should have got underlay with them . This would/should have been laid between boards and lino .They are not glued ,,well should not be glued.

Ps Should be easy job to lift ,look for an off cut board ie not full width (in one of the corners) remove this board and rest should follow easily.
As for legal part i'll leave that to the more knowledgeable.


Just seen POST about the dowling (strips around edges ) easy to remove should be just tacked in place , BUT may snap as type of dowling in photos is very weak , If there is a gap near door it would be a good spot to start , Just try lift the first (outside ) board on its own ,just lift it to about at 30/35 degree angle and put it away ,should not need much force (keep the second board in flat when trying this) Lifting the boards to an angle and putting away will save the joints and will make it reuseable.

hope this helps..