AWD Saloon

preddy

What are the options apart from the Impreza?

2008 new tax bracket but with limit of 12k pricewise

spank_inferno

The VAG quattro / AWD would suit.
But that low price for a lower tax model will be hard to find.

Try looking for an octavia 4x4 they are as rare as hens teeth though and if found are usually estates.

Anan1

Out of interest, why are you stuck on the new tax brackets? Also, does it have to be diesel?

Cookie_Monster

Legacy

Chimaera

You'll probably have to look in the UK for something that rare. Sadly very few new car buyers here specify 4x4 on VAG models so finding one is going to be difficult and the seller will probably mark it up for its rarity value.

After that, you're looking at Subaru really.

preddy

Anan1 wrote: »

Out of interest, why are you stuck on the new tax brackets? Also, does it have to be diesel?

Lower road tax.....

Anan1

preddy wrote: »

Lower road tax.....

That's a false economy. Everyone else in the country is fixated on motor tax too, which puches the price of post-08 cars way above what is justifiable by the lower tax. Does it have to be diesel?

Atomic Pineapple

preddy wrote: »

Lower road tax.....

Why pay thousands extra for a 2008 car to save hundreds?

R.O.R

Road tax on an 08 4x4 diesel probably isn't that low anyway. A 2012 Superb 4x4 will still be €447 to tax. The newest evolution of the Audi 2.0Tdi engine, with quattro is €302.

The 4x4 system really doesn't help the Co2 emissions, so road tax is generally pretty high (ish) even on the brand new models - and engines have come quite a long way since early 2008.

Anan1

And if we're looking at petrol then the old system might well be cheaper.

Eoin

draffodx wrote: »

Why pay thousands extra for a 2008 car to save hundreds?

As I've said before, it's like spending €1000 on a piggybank to store your pennies in.

Lex Luthor

I think this could be got for less than asking price if you're happy enough to go for pre 08

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201124202841691

and for a lot less money and also a 2007 with a 1.5 petrol engine you'll only be paying €357 a year
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201117202194005

Grant it, they wont be as economical as a diesel, but with all that change from 12k, you will buy a lot of petrol with it

Maybe sit down and do the sums and compare 07 petrol for 08 diesel and you might be pleasently surprised

Other alternative is the Suzuki SX4 i-AWD 2.0 Diesel, but you'd probably be looking at new and thats out of your bracket but you might find a 4Grip model in the UK for your budget

preddy

Anan1 wrote: »

That's a false economy. Everyone else in the country is fixated on motor tax too, which puches the price of post-08 cars way above what is justifiable by the lower tax. Does it have to be diesel?

Yes currently doing 80miles a day x5 = €90 a week

draffodx wrote: »

Why pay thousands extra for a 2008 car to save hundreds?

+

Eoin wrote: »

As I've said before, it's like spending €1000 on a piggybank to store your pennies in.

Newer car better condition, lower milliage are the advantages but maybe your right.
Currenlty paying 164 every 3 months on a petrol 3 series


Is AWD even worth it with the weather/snow we get?
Im looking to pay lower tax, fuel go 4 door. Maybe Legacy is what im looking for.

deandean

4wd Qashqui, I was looking at one in N.I recently.

Atomic Pineapple

preddy wrote: »

Newer car better condition, lower milliage are the advantages but maybe your right.

Not always the case, a newer car doesn't automatically mean better condition, or lower mileage, I know of a 1993 car thats in better condition than most 3 - 4 year old cars.

preddy wrote: »

Currenlty paying 164 every 3 months on a petrol 3 series

Thats nothing, I pay almost triple that. When you take in the whole cost of motoring for a year 164 every 3 months is relatively cheap I would have thought?

preddy

deandean wrote: »

4wd Qashqui, I was looking at one in N.I recently.

Saloon

Eoin

preddy wrote: »

Newer car better condition, lower milliage are the advantages but maybe your right.

Those are factors to take into account as well - just going by lower tax is short-sighted. You might well find a very well kept model with an older plate.

A lower purchase price by several thousand euro will easily cover a bit of extra maintenance.

preddy

draffodx wrote: »

When you take in the whole cost of motoring for a year 164 every 3 months is relatively cheap I would have thought?

Yea but when you keep the car say 4 years thats well over 2K in tax(minus new car tax) that i could have had newer car for. Tax = giving money away i'd rather put the money into the car. or than giving it to Mechanics.

So over all excluding year and tax im looking at:
[*]Subaru - Legacy or Impreza
[*]Quattro

Bearing in mind I want a saloon AWD not a 4x4. I think

Lex Luthor

preddy wrote: »

Bearing in mind I want a saloon AWD not a 4x4. I think

please dont say "JEEP"

Matt Simis

preddy wrote: »

Yea but when you keep the car say 4 years thats well over 2K in tax(minus new car tax) that i could have had newer car for. Tax = giving money away i'd rather put the money into the car. or than giving it to Mechanics.

You might find that a) You wont keep the car for 4years at all and b) the a higher mileage 2008 car could cost more than a 2006/7 model with lower mileage and better spec over 4years when taking into account purchase cost.

No one is saying "do not buy 2008" they are simply suggesting do not approach buying a car as "has to be 2008 because of newer car and tax"- thats a blinkered and poor approach.


Incidentially I drive a 1998 Audi S8 (AWD super saloon) which naturally is EUR1500 tax. For what I paid for it you would be driving the suggested 12k, lesser performing, 2008 "low tax" car for nearly 15years to justify your logic. :eek:

walus

I think you will be better off getting a pre 2008 tax petrol AWD car. Subarus are great for they AWD drive system. I own a 2.0 petrol Legacy and it is a joy to drive. A lot cheaper to buy than its diesel version and not that expensive in terms of motortax at all (614 euro). If you decide to go with the Impreza make sure you check it thoroughly - they tend to be driven hard by fast and furious youth . Good luck.

firefly08

Yea but when you keep the car say 4 years thats well over 2K in tax(minus new car tax) that i could have had newer car for. Tax = giving money away i'd rather put the money into the car. or than giving it to Mechanics.

So over all excluding year and tax im looking at:[*]Subaru - Legacy or Impreza[*]Quattro

Bearing in mind I want a saloon AWD not a 4x4. I think

I agree with you that tax is throwing money away, but it's nothing compared to depreciation. I mean, what would the newer tax rate come to, over the 4 years, compared to your example of 2k? Maybe 1K? It would hardly be a lot less than that. So that's 1K more you could have spent on the car - and that means you're not saving a penny - but a > 2008 car will probably loose a lot more than 1K in value over 4 years. So you've thrown your 1K away anyway,plus a good bit more along with it, just to have a car that's slightly newer.

People often think that it's somehow better to spend more up front on a car - it feels like a better 'investment' that way. But the important thing to remember is that a car is a liability - it's always better to defer the costs as long as you can. So cheap car + high costs makes more economic sense than pricey car + low costs, because your money is in your pocket in instead of tied up in an "asset" (which is really a liability).

Oh, and finally: I vote for Audi Quattro! It will be excellent in Irish road conditions.

245

OP - how badly do you need AWD? Even with it you'll need appropriate tyres and in most bad weather conditions that you're likely to meet, a decent FWD car on winter tyres will do just fine. Also, an AWD car like the Legacy/Audi saloon won't have the ground clearance for conditions such as heavy snow or flood water.

I have a '08 Legacy diesel and I'm very happy with it although I'll be trading it in next January for a non-Subaru as I don't see anything in the current lineup to tempt me. I've enjoyed the AWD but it isn't life-changing and I wouldn't see any issue with going back to two driven wheels (I live out in the wilds and need to be mobile but I can still live without AWD).

FWIW, the last generation Legacy diesel saloon costs 302 euro per annum to tax, will generally return 50 mpg and is pleasantly nippy.

firefly08

OP - how badly do you need AWD? Even with it you'll need appropriate tyres and in most bad weather conditions that you're likely to meet, a decent FWD car on winter tyres will do just fine. Also, an AWD car like the Legacy/Audi saloon won't have the ground clearance for conditions such as heavy snow or flood water.

Good point about ground clearance, if that's something the OP cares about. Audi Quattros and the like are not off-road cars - with low clearance and no locking diffs you won't far through Land Rover country. They're designed to go quickly on challenging road surfaces that would hinder a 2WD car.

It's true that FWD with winter tyres will do for snow...AWD is just better - it's a luxury really rather than a must-have.
And at least for the Quattro I can say that it works very well in snow even without winter tyres. On top of that, it'll handle wet roads, mud and gravel and just about any low-traction surface with ease. As for ground clearence, you'll have all you need for the kind of snow you see in Ireland - even if it continues to get worse - I have driven my A6 Quattro in 8 or 9 inches of fresh snow, with normal tyres, no hassle whatsoever. But for floods you're right, probably no better off than any FWD car.

Unless, of course, you go for the Allroad Quattro, which has adjustable height suspension, and can go from sports-saloon to Range Rover clearance with the flick of a switch No idea if that's in the OP's price range though.

pburns

245 took the words from my mouth - do you really need AWD? I ask because you say you are coming from a 3 series and with the bad experiences many BMW drivers had last winter...well, I'm just wondering if this is an influence...

I have a Legacy diesel as well and tbh, they're not that far ahead of FWD for icy conditions once you get moving. The right tyres are WAAAAY more important. AWD has other benefits in day-to-day driving but the advantages in winter are not as clearcut as some think.

The diesel Legacy came out in 08 - I haven't seen any around the €12k mark yet but it can't be far off nearly 4 yrs on.

JJJJNR

Did either you or 245 get winters for your subaru last year, just curious to hear how awd fairs in the crappy weather.

245

JJJJNR wrote: »

Did either you or 245 get winters for your subaru last year, just curious to hear how awd fairs in the crappy weather.

I have a new set of Nokian WR G2 s on a set of 16" Subaru alloys but I haven't the chance to use them in snow yet. They're not as extreme as some winters but look very capable. We'll see what the weather comes up with over the next few months :P

lomb

Anan1 wrote: »

And if we're looking at petrol then the old system might well be cheaper.

Certainly, my Quattro TT 1.8 is 550 to tax and would be on the top rate if it was based on CO2 ie 2200 odd. It outputs 226g of co2 I believe.
4 wheel drive is great and well worth it if you can live with the higher fuel bills.

RandomAccess

The Opel Insignia comes in awd guise as well, but tax and Diesel rarity could rule them out.
Just adding these since other people might be viewing and people always suggest Audi and Subaru for awd saloons

Opel Insignia SRi Turbo 4x4

Insignia Diesel - outside of Budget

preddy

pburns wrote: »

245 took the words from my mouth - do you really need AWD? I ask because you say you are coming from a 3 series and with the bad experiences many BMW drivers had last winter...well, I'm just wondering if this is an influence...

I have a Legacy diesel as well and tbh, they're not that far ahead of FWD for icy conditions once you get moving. The right tyres are WAAAAY more important. AWD has other benefits in day-to-day driving but the advantages in winter are not as clearcut as some think.

The diesel Legacy came out in 08 - I haven't seen any around the €12k mark yet but it can't be far off nearly 4 yrs on.

Didnt really have alot of problems last winter but was mostly on the main roads, other then the odd rear end slide in heavy wet or ice 2wd is fine.

No off roading, just like the other advantages of AWD esp with the weather looming again.

Anan1

JJJJNR wrote: »

Did either you or 245 get winters for your subaru last year, just curious to hear how awd fairs in the crappy weather.

I did. Getting going was never a problem even without winter tyres, but being able to stop & steer was good!

preddy wrote: »

Didnt really have alot of problems last winter but was mostly on the main roads, other then the odd rear end slide in heavy wet or ice 2wd is fine.

No off roading, just like the other advantages of AWD esp with the weather looming again.

A RWD car on winter tyres will be safer than an AWD car on summers.

MetzgerMeister

Consider also, Mazda6 MPS. 4WD, 2.3T petrol, €860 tax per annum.

For the price you can get a lot of pre 2008 for, you really would be silly to buy a post 2008 to get the tax "advantages" which will more than likely be hit in the budget.

Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish

Veloce

Alfa 159 Q4

Anan1

Veloce wrote: »

Alfa 159 Q4

Ah come on now..

Veloce

Anan1 wrote: »

Ah come on now..

What?

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

Ah come on now..

A wise man once said that :pac:

heate

My friendly local BMW stealer is about to fit my winter tyres. I bought a rwd car so I don't have to compromise for the 6 months of the year when I don't need them.
The snow we get our here in Switzerland is continuous and about 10x worse than Ireland and yet the locals don't all rush out and buy awd cars for the winter.
In fact an awd car leads many into a false sense of security.
A set of winter tyres if you don't change the rims (I have a set of 18's as opposed to my summer 19's for comfort) is essentially free because as they say you can only wear one set at a time!

TomMc

As others have mentioned, winter tyres are a better investment than upgrading to AWD, if it is for safety reasons first and foremost (daily driving in road and weather conditions similar to last winter).

AWD and summer tyres are fine on loose snow up to the point you need to brake and stop.:eek: You soon realise having AWD can lull you into a false sense of security. Slowing down for junctions is one thing, trying to bring a car to a complete stop on compacted snow or ice without overshooting a fixed point another matter entirely (even at slow speeds). I had a few scary moments last winter, braking on a slight incline approaching a particular junction (daily occurance), even when crawling and switched to winter tyres as a direct result. Night and day the difference but still no room for complacency.

preddy

Can you drive on winter tyres when the snow clears or how are they on normal road conditions?
Can they be driving all winter rain hail or shine, changing tyres with as Irish weather changes be a nightmare......

Anan1

preddy wrote: »

Can you drive on winter tyres when the snow clears or how are they on normal road conditions?
Can they be driving all winter rain hail or shine, changing tyres with as Irish weather changes be a nightmare......

You put them on at the start of November, take them off in March. They tend to be a little comfier than summer tyres, but otherwise (apart from the much improved grip) you'd be hard-pressed to notice any difference.

heate

preddy wrote: »

Can you drive on winter tyres when the snow clears or how are they on normal road conditions?
Can they be driving all winter rain hail or shine, changing tyres with as Irish weather changes be a nightmare......

Yes of course you can. I have mine fitted in early November/late October and remove them by April. Rain, snow and a bit of alpine sunshine in April. And gentle prod of the accelerator in very deep snow to get the car moving and its not a problem.
The design of the tires also prevents hydroplaning and actually improves wet road handling.
Its studded tires that can't be driven on dry roads as they damage the road surface. The only place you will see them is in the back of beyond's in Scandinavia

Lex Luthor

what are people doing with winter tyres? buying a spare set of wheels and just swapping the wheels over when the time comes or bringing the tyres to a fitter and getting them swapped over probably at a cost of about €10/corner?

say if you were to buy a set of tyres from your local fitter, would they change the tyres over for you twice a year or tell ya to get lost once they did it once?

Matt Simis

Lex Luthor wrote: »

say if you were to buy a set of tyres from your local fitter, would they change the tyres over for you twice a year or tell ya to get lost once they did it once?

They will do what you pay them for and you pay them for swapping tyres over each time. I just bought a second set of wheels, although with 4 cars and 3 complete spare wheel sets, Im prolly at my limit spacewise.

Anan1

Lex Luthor wrote: »

what are people doing with winter tyres? buying a spare set of wheels and just swapping the wheels over when the time comes or bringing the tyres to a fitter and getting them swapped over probably at a cost of about €10/corner?

say if you were to buy a set of tyres from your local fitter, would they change the tyres over for you twice a year or tell ya to get lost once they did it once?

The best way long-term is to buy cheap wheels.

heate

The norm is to fit 1" smaller tyres and wheel (19-18" 18-17" etc). Not all do but most manufacturers recommend you do. A cheap set of second wheels is the way to go.
The previous owner of my car bought a package from the manufacturer when he bought the car so I bought the set of him and found its much easier than having my summer tires removed and refitted.

TomMc

I kept my winter tyres on all year, was going to swap rims as I have two sets but never got around to it. Lazy so and so I know. But then again we do not really get summers here anymore and I'm doing very low mileage at present. I will only use them for 5-6 months max (I hope) and then swap to the summer set up. IMHO, Winter tyres while perfect in Autumn and Winter months, wouldn't have quite as good braking performance in dry weather or warmer conditions. The sipes while very useful on compacted snow, especially in terms of braking, to my mind slightly increase the risk of getting punctures.

preddy

How do these new cars compare MPG wise with older cars?
Think im currently getting 32 with my 01 318ci bmw. 170k on the clock

Failed my NCT and might need 1k of work done to my car so trying to work out the value of a new/newer car.

Brand new a good option rather then 07? No NCT- warrenty- tax and Petrol?

Sorry to move this off the awd subject but deciding to buy or repair is where im at.

barura

Making your own thread would be the best option for your question. I'd say repair your BMW, I don't get why people have this mentality of not repairing a car for 1k and buying a different one for 6k+ and up to have something with a newer plate.

It's the type of thinking that got us as a country into the mess we're in. Well, partially. :P

Matthewjohn

audi a6/a4