Total Fitness

PrettyBoy

Has there been any news on what's going to happen to the Total Fitness branches here in Ireland? Heard a while ago that there was talk of Ben Dunne taking it over but haven't heard a thing in months..

TeddyTedson

Nothing at all. I expect they will just lie there being wasted for a few years.

Hanley

There's talks of a Jan '12 reopen - presumably cos there'd be a sudden influx of cash from the NYR crowd.

They're also potentially looking for gov. funding under the banner of being a quasi-medical facility but like we can barely keep our hospitals open so I doubt that'll work.

TeddyTedson

You trollin' brah?

nullzero

Hanley wrote: »

There's talks of a Jan '12 reopen - presumably cos there'd be a sudden influx of cash from the NYR crowd.

They're also potentially looking for gov. funding under the banner of being a quasi-medical facility but like we can barely keep our hospitals open so I doubt that'll work.

Complete troll-tastic BS.

They will sit vacant until the economy begins to grow again and re opening them wouldn't be a loss making exercise. Who wants a top quailty facility when you can pay peanuts to Ben Dunne to stand in queues behind teenagers every time to go to the gym?

The fitness business is in a similar position to every other business at the moment, in a race to the bottom due to the economic circumstances we're in.
Total Fitness was a great place poorly run so it went to the wall. The market has shrunk so a repond TF would struggle to succeed, which is a pity.

liliom

Does anyone know what the trainers are doing from castleknock TF?

karlito0000

HEARD WORK BEING CARRIED OUT IN TF CASTLEKNOCK TO GET UP AND RUNNING AGAIN,BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE STILL SIGNED UP TO OTHER CLUBS AFTER THE CLOSURE IT COULD BE AFTER XMAS BEFORE ITS UP AND RUNNING.ANYBODY I'VE TALKED TO SAID THEY WOULD REJOIN BUT NOT AT THE OLD PRICES ,ESPICALLY WHEN BEN DUNNES IS GIVING IT TO YOU FOR 180EUROS WHEN 3 PEOPLE JOIN,SO I WOULD TELL ANYBODY TO MAKE SURE PRICES ARE INLINE WITH OUR ECONOMY.300 EUROS MAX REMEMBER THEY HAVE TO WIN BACK PEOPLE TRUST AS ALOT OF MEMBERS WERE SHAFTED AFTER PAYING UP IN FULL AND NO REFUND WHEN THEY SHUT.

Hanley

karlito0000 wrote: »

HEARD WORK BEING CARRIED OUT IN TF CASTLEKNOCK TO GET UP AND RUNNING AGAIN,BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE STILL SIGNED UP TO OTHER CLUBS AFTER THE CLOSURE IT COULD BE AFTER XMAS BEFORE ITS UP AND RUNNING.ANYBODY I'VE TALKED TO SAID THEY WOULD REJOIN BUT NOT AT THE OLD PRICES ,ESPICALLY WHEN BEN DUNNES IS GIVING IT TO YOU FOR 180EUROS WHEN 3 PEOPLE JOIN,SO I WOULD TELL ANYBODY TO MAKE SURE PRICES ARE INLINE WITH OUR ECONOMY.300 EUROS MAX REMEMBER THEY HAVE TO WIN BACK PEOPLE TRUST AS ALOT OF MEMBERS WERE SHAFTED AFTER PAYING UP IN FULL AND NO REFUND WHEN THEY SHUT.

And this is why the race to the bottom is a devastating thing for irish business.

Zamboni

Hanley wrote: »

And this is why the race to the bottom is a devastating thing for irish business.

Is it really a race to the bottom though?
Benny boy created a product and undercut everybody and won customers.
If anybody wants to compete and charge a higher price then they have to have a better product offering or beat his price.

People are simply voting with their feet.
Gyms in Dublin could be summarised as this (imo)
Ben is expanding, small box gyms are multiplying exponentially, the council gyms will operate regardless of losses and the middle to higer tiers big boxes are suffering illustrated by the TF shut down and JS going into examinership and being sold off.

Noffles

I loved TF, trained in all of them and loved them, even when busy they were very useable... shame they've gone.

Hanley

Zamboni wrote: »

Is it really a race to the bottom though?

Imo, yes it is. Others may disagree tho.

Benny boy created a product and undercut everybody and won customers.
If anybody wants to compete and charge a higher price then they have to have a better product offering or beat his price.

People are by and large idiots when it comes to health and fitness. And it's CERTAINLY my experience that Irish people, as a whole, do not appreciate "value" in a health and fitness sense.

THey're happy to drop 400-600 bucks monthly drinking, but as them to spend that for a YEAR on a gym and they're horrified.

People are simply voting with their feet.
Gyms in Dublin could be summarised as this (imo)
Ben is expanding, small box gyms are multiplying exponentially, the council gyms will operate regardless of losses and the middle to higer tiers big boxes are suffering illustrated by the TF shut down and JS going into examinership and being sold off.

Good summation. So you've got:
-big busy crap gyms
-small niche gyms that don't necessarily offer "open" training
-council gyms (Which I know nothing of so can't comment)

I think my needs and perceptions are skewing my opinion on things tbh. Most Ben Dunne gyms are perfectly suitable for the majority of the population really.

I just know that given the choice I'd rather train in a TF style gym with heavy dumbbells, power racks, a nice pool and all the other typical gym stuff!

The Davestator

I'm involved in the industry and have noticed changed in the last few years. Firstly, when Westpoint opened, BD was not going into the budget gym biz. It was very expensive. Due to his lack of a clue, he couldn't compete with TF Blanch and dropped his price and he stumbled upon his niche. The only reason he can operate north wood and west point at a huge loss is because the other clubs carry him.
The middle ground - 50 per month approx has been affected most as you can't offer pools, classes etc for that per month as JSF, TF, Crunch have found out.

columok

Hanley wrote: »

People are by and large idiots when it comes to health and fitness. And it's CERTAINLY my experience that Irish people, as a whole, do not appreciate "value" in a health and fitness sense.

THey're happy to drop 400-600 bucks monthly drinking, but as them to spend that for a YEAR on a gym and they're horrified.

You're correct about Irish people placing a poor value on health. The 400-600 quid a month is pretty out there though. A lot of people are financially struggling and this "statistic" seems to be used consistently as an excuse to justify crazy fees. I genuinely don't believe the majority of prospective gym goers are living some hedonistic big money party lifestyle. Most people are struggling with loans, bills, rent etc. and have trouble justifying three figures a month on a gym membership! There may be pockets of wealthy dublin out there who can act like its 2005 but the majority of us have trouble justifying any extra expenses.

Hanley

columok wrote: »

You're correct about Irish people placing a poor value on health. The 400-600 quid a month is pretty out there though. A lot of people are financially struggling and this "statistic" seems to be used consistently as an excuse to justify crazy fees. I genuinely don't believe the majority of prospective gym goers are living some hedonistic big money party lifestyle. Most people are struggling with loans, bills, rent etc. and have trouble justifying three figures a month on a gym membership! There may be pockets of wealthy dublin out there who can act like its 2005 but the majority of us have trouble justifying any extra expenses.

I dunno... maybe it's different for the 25+ age group, but I know A LOT of people my age who'd spend that much on nights out over the course of a month.

Black Sheep

I'm kind of surprised too - 400 euros a month on drinking these days? Even if they live at home I'd have thought that these days there weren't many people out there with that kind of disposable income, especially if they are also paying a gym membership. Maybe things aren't so grim out there after all.

I agree people prioritise the way they spend their disposable income in various ways, and sometimes in an idiosyncratic way. To get away from the example of drink - let's say someone has an expensive car and they spend a fair bit of money keeping it on the road (high road tax, expensive tires, services etc), for example. Or maybe they're into sound systems and have an unnecessarily lavish system at home just to watch DVDs.

Just because they choose to spend their disposable income in that way does not mean, IMO, they are not still justified in looking for value in the way they spend the rest of their money. In fact, they probably need to be more conscious of what they're doing with their money.

I think gym membership and personal training is one area where there is still a big divergence in pricing depending upon your specific needs. If Ben Dunne fits the bill for people's needs in terms of equipment then fair enough. But even in the more niche gyms (various CrossFit affiliates, Ironside / ECB, The Edge, Hercs) there is a bit difference in pricing and access. Some are literally 3-4 times more expensive than the others.

Now, somewhere like The Edge basically provides a personal training service, and the price reflects that: Fair enough. Then in the likes of Hercs and Ironside / ECB you've got a basic but really good lifter-orientated facilities, quite good access over the course of the day, but less scope for group classes and it's more a case of doing your own thing (albeit there are some very knowledgable people there willing to lend a hand to almost any extent). Again, I think the price is reflective of that. When it comes to some of the CrossFit boxes in Dublin I think the waters get a bit murkier and I think it's fair to say that there are two long established affiliates which charge a premium price for membership, in contrast to some newer facilities which have opened up, charging significantly less. Is the divergence in price reasonable? The consumer needs to do their homework.

IMO if someone charges a particular price for membership at their facility, whatever its nature, then it's up to them to demonstrate why they are worth the asking price - not merely to point out that you could afford them if you didn't spend your disposable income elsewhere.

cc87

Black Sheep wrote: »

I agree people prioritise the way they spend their disposable income in various ways, and sometimes in an idiosyncratic way. To get away from the example of drink - let's say someone has an expensive car and they spend a fair bit of money keeping it on the road (high road tax, expensive tires, services etc), for example. Or maybe they're into sound systems and have an unnecessarily lavish system at home just to watch DVDs

This is part of the reason people arent as willing to spend money on gym membership, people have a lack of interest in their own health in ireland and they find it harder to spend money on something they dont have a real interest in.

Its easy for people on here to say that gyms charge a reasonable fee (which i agree with, you get what you pay for IMO), but for someone with only a passing interest in their health its harder for them to agree with that point.

Also as hanley said, there are plenty of people spending small fortunes on going out at the weekends.

It was pointed out to me during the week, if you take out retail, construction and banking from the irish economy we are in a very good position in terms of future growth. Only problem is those 3 are completely f*ucked and the government is a load of bollox.

King of Kings

Hanley wrote: »

Imo, y


People are by and large idiots when it comes to health and fitness. And it's CERTAINLY my experience that Irish people, as a whole, do not appreciate "value" in a health and fitness sense.

THey're happy to drop 400-600 bucks monthly drinking, but as them to spend that for a YEAR on a gym and they're horrified.
!

i disagree - they're not idiots they just prefer drinking to training and only (IMO) train to stay "lean" or "leaner" to compensate for their extravagant weekends etc..


Drinking and clubbing are more important than training - I don't think very many of the populous would deny that. They're not trying to be olympians or world champions nor do they care.
They want to lift some db's and run on a threadmill to look good or someway good and have no interest in excelling at fitness.

Frankly I love training in the gym but I never got laid in one - as for coppers........lets just say the money spent was a good investment! And I'd consider myself one of those looking for "value" in terms of product not price in the market


But you are right that they don't "appreciate" value but do they want "that" product??? - I don't think they do.
Also the concept of paying minimal for their fitness/health comes (IMO) from growing up with organistions like the GAA which is by and large free (thanks to their hold on grants etc..) or athletics (which is pretty cheap too)

Also you got to take into account that some concepts of S&C(for example) or Martial Arts - beyond the traditional - are newish and perhaps are not appreciated as much as the established sports

There are people who like training more but they are in a minority hence we don't have a market for a 24h gym or other things. which is a pity.

Hanley

Right I guess I should clarify...

I don't think anyone is an "idiot" for going out and dropping several hundred bucks a month on boozing. I've done it, some of my best friends do it, and a quick trip thru town on Saturday night will confirm a lot of people are at it.

My only issue is that when these exact same people start talking about training being too expensive. It's not, they just choose to spend their money elsewhere, and that's perfectly ok!!

I do agree that it's up to gyms to prove that they're worth the asking price as well and that price does not necessarily convey quality, but it's generally a good indicator.

When it comes to CF affiliates specifically, I think things change a little bit. Mainly because people may just consider CF to be CF, and don't realise the differential in quality between different locations. But that's the CF gyms problem really. They sign up to the affiliate agreement in full knowledge that it may happen. Do I think it dilutes the quality of the brand, based of my knowledge of some CF gyms, possibly. The gulf in quality between affiliates, especially in Ireland would be quite significant imo. And the price tends to reflect that. But again, it's the gyms issue, as black sheep pointed out, to prove that they're worth the asking price.

Barry.Oglesby

King of Kings wrote: »

And I'd consider myself one of those looking for "value" in terms of product not price in the market

So difficult to know whether you're talking about getting laid or your gym.

Dotcomdolly

I'd love to be able to join a better gym than Ben Dunne's but just can't afford to, and it's not because I'm spending it on booze or Laboutins.
I have been going to RockFitness in Dundrum this month on a LivingSocial deal and I love it, but 529 v's 275 (or as low as 175 with offer) doesn't leave me a choice

King of Kings

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

So difficult to know whether you're talking about getting laid or your gym.

gym.

i'm settled with kids now so the only market i'm in is a supermarket