France fined for advancing on the haka

lala88

France have been fined 10,000 dollors for advancing on the haka in the World Cup final. What a load of s***!! Why should New Zealand be allowed to "intimidate" teams with the Haka, and their opponents have to stand there and take it? They shouldn't even be allowed to do it let alone an opposing team be fined. I mean, we can't have 2 songs/anthems away from home so why should we indulge them?

jaykay74

Seems like the IRB are on the ball with dealing with the major issues affecting the game then.

Is there a link for this story ? Is there a rule to cover this even ? Bizarre if there is.

shuffol

I wonder is it for advancing on the haka specifically or for crossing over onto the opponents side of the pitch

Turkish1

lala88 wrote: »

France have been fined 10,000 dollors for advancing on the haka in the World Cup final. What a load of s***!! Why should New Zealand be allowed to "intimidate" teams with the Haka, and their opponents have to stand there and take it? They shouldn't even be allowed to do it let alone an opposing team be fined. I mean, we can't have 2 songs/anthems away from home so why should we indulge them?

It was well known before the tourney that teams had to stand on the 10metre line and observe the haka from there (didn't bother looking for link, but definately read it somewhere). Don't think the French will give a toss about a 10,000NZD fine to be honest. Even though I and the vast majority of people think it is a crock of s***.

If they want to keep letting them do the Haka that's fine however, teams should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want while NZ do it.(possibly in their own half, thinking about it). Couple of passing drills, hitting a few pads, high fielding. Whatever basically.

Playing devils advocate here though - Why do people only ever seem to complain about the NZ Haka, what about Tonga, Samoa etc that do a
"tribal dance" for want of a better word.

irishbucsfan

I reckon just get our lads to do the riverdance during the next one. If that doesn't put the fear of god into them nothing will.

andrewdcs

Turkish1 wrote: »

It was well known before the tourney that teams had to stand on the 10metre line and observe the haka from there (didn't bother looking for link, but definately read it somewhere). Don't think the French will give a toss about a 10,000NZD fine to be honest. Even though I and the vast majority of people think it is a crock of s***.

If they want to keep letting them do the Haka that's fine however, teams should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want while NZ do it.(possibly in their own half, thinking about it). Couple of passing drills, hitting a few pads, high fielding. Whatever basically.

Playing devils advocate here though - Why do people only ever seem to complain about the NZ Haka, what about Tonga, Samoa etc that do a
"tribal dance" for want of a better word.

I love ALL the pacific islanders wardances / traditions, there are videos (cant find em right now) of a dust up when I think Tonga took on Samoa with a like haka off (though I know their dances are not called hakas?)

So you can war dance to war dance, but you can't line up and move respectfully into stare down distance a la Ireland and France... this must change.

stackerman

jaykay74 wrote: »

Seems like the IRB are on the ball with dealing with the major issues affecting the game then.

Is there a link for this story ? Is there a rule to cover this even ? Bizarre if there is.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/france-fined-10000-for-advancing-on-haka-261903-Oct2011/

Total joke !

France should refuse to pay the fine.

shuffol

In fairness the Haka is one mean war dance

http://youtu.be/DdI0g3rENcQ

irishbucsfan

andrewdcs wrote: »

I love ALL the pacific islanders wardances / traditions, there are videos (cant find em right now) of a dust up when I think Tonga took on Samoa with a like haka off (though I know their dances are not called hakas?)

So you can war dance to war dance, but you can't line up and move respectfully into stare down distance a la Ireland and France... this must change.

The rules have been changed after that, they now have to do them one at a time.

Realistically, and pathetically, I think the real reason that the rule is in place is because Adidas love to have their All Blacks on screen doing their dance, and when the opposition do something to take the attention away they're effectively losing ad time. Hence forcing other nations to do theirs afterwards and hence fining anyone who does anything to even remotely take the cameras off the All Blacks or make the All Blacks look anything less than "terrifying". The IRB realise how vital the Adidas money is to New Zealand rugby and they don't want to devalue that brand. The answer is always money.

tolosenc

Well, they're actually not allowed to have a "haka off" anymore. One team must stand and watch the other, 20+ metres between them.

NZ, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, etc. should only be allowed to do their dances at home, like the situation which Ireland and anthems. At the same time, no team should be obligated to pay attention.

GerM

Turkish1 wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here though - Why do people only ever seem to complain about the NZ Haka, what about Tonga, Samoa etc that do a
"tribal dance" for want of a better word.

The NZ haka is on a different level in terms of how it's perceived and how it's treated. I have seen Tonga and Samoa face each other's haka down and the IRB didn't bat an eyelid. Do it to the NZ haka and you've made an enemy. The ultimate farce was the Welsh debacle in 2006 when they refused to perform it on the field as the WRU wanted to have their anthem after the haka. I recall McCaw saying at the time that people needed to honour the haka and stop messing around.

gosplan

Turkish1 wrote: »

If they want to keep letting them do the Haka that's fine however, teams should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want while NZ do it.(possibly in their own half, thinking about it). Couple of passing drills, hitting a few pads, high fielding. Whatever basically.

Wow, talk about the greatest ever response to the Haka.

Basically just have your team ignoring it and hitting tackle bags like maniacs while the OH slots some practise kicks.

astonaidan

tbh its a joke fining them, i love the haka but what makes it more exciting is when a team puts up a challenge to them anyone who thought france wouldnt do something at the start of that game really doesnt know anything

MungBean

Bout time this Haka nonsense was knocked on the head and all 6 nations teams should issue a joint statement in favour of abolishing it in the game and refusing to allow it in any upcoming games.

To fine a team who doenst stand still and let the other team gain a psychological advantage is a farce an nothing else.

Fishooks12

The fine is nonsense but personally I love the drama of the Haka and trying to second guess how the opposition will re-act

The Munster All Blacks game a few years ago is a great example. I'll never forget that. Unreal atmosphere during it

Phonehead

I don't mind the Haka but I hate the IRB and the NZ stance on it, basically stand there and watch us make throat slitting gestures. Frankly I think every nation should come up with their own war dance and demand they be allowed to do it in response. I'd like a bum dance routine, let the boys in green turn around and shake those behinds for 60 seconds making kiss my behind signs.

Childish - 100% yes Would it annoy the IRB and NZ 10000% YES

tolosenc

Actually, come to think of it, I don't recall there being any dancing prior to matches at this year's PNC...

tolosenc

gosplan wrote: »

Basically just have your team ignoring it and hitting tackle bags like maniacs while the OH slots some practise kicks.

Or have your players just boot balls at them...

savagecabbages

They only copied us anyway:p:p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fg4FyhZ-Kg

prospect

I like the spectacle of the haka or whatever dance is going on. But, I think it should be an option for performing teams, Anthem or Dance.

Also, while I do not object to the either team not being allowed to cross the half way line, I do object to them being made stand and wait. Obviously nothing offensive in response, but if they wish to practice kicks (didn't Campese do this?) and passes etc, I don't see the problem.

I think I head on Sunday that France previously had Blue, White and Red vests on for one Haka and they lined up in the formation of the Tricolore, which was pretty neat.

Maybe the next time Ireland play they could have vests with one letter on each and spell out 'BunchOfNancies!"

GerM

Kudos prospect simply for the fact that "Bunchofnancies!" has exactly 15 characters!

funky penguin

The most precious thing in world rugby, get rid of it and be done with it. They'll complain (probably threaten to not participate in the next world cup), but they'll get over it.

Jesus it's annoying.

Kiwi_knock

I think the ref should have intervened and prevented France advancing over the half way line. To be honest the fine is deserved because it is in the rule book.

I love watching the Haka, but I am not sure if it really has any advantage. Just gives you an extended chance to eye ball your opposite number.

listermint

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I think the ref should have intervened and prevented France advancing over the half way line. To be honest the fine is deserved because it is in the rule book.

I love watching the Haka, but I am not sure if it really has any advantage. Just gives you an extended chance to eye ball your opposite number.

It shouldnt be given special status in the rulebook to allow this sort of fine infringement. Bad form

walshb

I seem to recall Ireland standing firm to the Haka in Lansdowne Road in 1989 I think? I recall the team being lambasted for this. I felt the team were bang on, and yet even Irish people were slating them for it. Was it Donal Lenihan who led the team that time?

GerM

walshb wrote: »

I seem to recall Ireland standing firm to the Haka in Lansdowne Road in 1989 I think? I recall the team being lambasted for this. I felt the team were bang on, and yet even Irish people were slating them for it. Was it Donal Lenihan who led the team that time?

Willie Anderson.

Phonehead

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I think the ref should have intervened and prevented France advancing over the half way line. To be honest the fine is deserved because it is in the rule book.I love watching the Haka, but I am not sure if it really has any advantage. Just gives you an extended chance to eye ball your opposite number.

That was the only time the rulebook was applied yesterday because CJ had a serious brain fart for the next 80 minutes.

davidpfitz

In my book, the Haka should be before the anthems - along with the rest of the pre-match entertainment.

walshb

GerM wrote: »

Willie Anderson.

Thanks, what a stand up. I must say I was never prouder of my country than that day. And it was nothing to do with direspect, just pure adrenalin and pride and courage.


And then we got hockied!

omerin

shuffol wrote: »

In fairness the Haka is one mean war dance

http://youtu.be/DdI0g3rENcQ

the forth one in was practicing his gropping techniques, an elvis impersonator in the middle and some of them were trying to start an imaginary honda 50. The funniest thing I've seen for a while, thanks poster for the laugh

thomond2006

Matt Williams has a point here, why do we put the "All Blacks" on a pedestal? They're just Bloody New Zealanders.

I guarantee if France reacted similarly to Samoa's Siva Tau there would be no fine.

Dublin_Gunner

Ridiculous.

France had a fine showing of non-intimidation by the all Blacks haka. Personally I see nothing wrong with it.

2 teams trying to intimidate the other before the start of the match, nothing more.

A fine is stupid.

Nelson Muntz

This is the sort of thing that had a lot of neutral fans wanting France to win. The arrogance of all things all black & the mentality of some dickhead kiwi AB fans that other teams should feel blessed to be on the same field as the AB's turns a lot of people off them.

That is a pity because they are constantly the best team in the world & they set the standard for the advancement of the game.

dub_skav

There used to be a mystique to the haka because we rarely saw it.
Now we see it 4 times in the autumn, 47 times in the tri-nations, the world cup and every 2nd Wednesday. At this stage it's a little tedious.

Also, if they claim it's part of their heritage / a rugby tradition etc then why are they allowed to change it? I have no problem with ka mate, but they should at the very least have to stick to that one.

Making people face it in a particular way is farcical too, IRB sticking their noses in.

overshoot

i always thought the haka was meant as a challenge to the opponents, if they are not allowed to repond, the haka shouldnt be allowed, it should be down to each nation to decide how. the likes of Ireland can have their 2 anthums (and keep 20metres) or march up '89 style and stare them down. New Zealand are on a pedestal getting 2 things to phyche themselves up shouldnt be allowed

eyescreamcone

How about a few lads leaning against the goalposts and a few jumping up in the air just before the AB finish so that it looks like the All Blacks are copying the opposition

Kiwi_knock

When the All Blacks are playing away the home fans should be trying to drown out the haka rather than stay silent for it. You should be hearing "Fields of Athenry, Bread of Heaven, and Swing Low Sweet Chariot when NZ are performing the Haka. The crowd should not be respecting it.

durkadurka

shuffol wrote: »

In fairness the Haka is one mean war dance

http://youtu.be/DdI0g3rENcQ

This had me giggling in the office. They totally look like they dont want to be doing it. Its like a load of aul fellas in a country disco failing to keep time to the rhythm.

stackerman

shuffol wrote: »

In fairness the Haka is one mean war dance

http://youtu.be/DdI0g3rENcQ

Brilliant !!

Note though that they do it to the camera, not the opposition.

Wonder when that changed

overshoot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncu6SzmHe3E&feature=related
good welsh response if you have to keep ur distance

Kiwi_knock

overshoot wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncu6SzmHe3E&feature=related
good welsh response if you have to keep ur distance

Australia attempted a stare down similar to that in the Semi Final but NZ just turned around and got on with it.

France should start Trowing Baguettes at their opponents as with tradition.

steve_r

out of interest, here's a bbc article about Ireland in '89 challenging the haka.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/1658831.stm

Read to the end to see the NZ response

LostinBlanch

funky penguin wrote: »

The most precious thing in world rugby, get rid of it and be done with it. They'll complain (probably threaten to not participate in the next world cup), but they'll get over it.

Well my God they whinged like hell when Willie Anderson led the boys up to face them saying "we're not scared of you."

It got the crowd going and the team. We had a really good 20 minutes but their better fitness and professionalism* told in the end and they beat us.

But the real clincher was the amount of whinging from their RFU who said if we ever did that again they would never play us at international level again . . . . so the IRFU caved. The IRB have caved in the same way for the Adidas marketing money mentioned above. It's not for rugby reasons. Don't get me wrong it has it's place in rugby but other teams should not be forced to stand in a very prescribed way and not be allowed to "answer" the challenge.

BTW the Ka Mate haka celebrated the maori chief Te Rauparaha hiding from his enemies in a pit guarded by another chiefs wife Te Rangikoaea sitting on it. When the enemies left he came up and performed the Ka Mate haka. Make of that what you will.

*I know it was the amateur era but they were more professional in their outlook and preparations.

stackerman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk2Cwl_flZc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Maybe this is where we are going :rolleyes:

Riverdance v Haka

Flatly v Haka

FFS

Scrap it before it becomes a farce.

BTW I did like it, but the IRB, and Henrys, O'Briens and McCaws attitude had done it for me :mad:

MyKeyG

Turkish1 wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here though - Why do people only ever seem to complain about the NZ Haka, what about Tonga, Samoa etc that do a "tribal dance" for want of a better word.

Because New Zealand are IMO very arrogant when it comes to the Haka. Tonga and Samoa come out, do their dance' and get on with it. No fuss no BS about disrespect.

Don't get me wrong I think the AB's have set the bar for the game and you have to respect that but it's coming to a stage where they think they can do what they want.

Whether it's spear tackling with impunity, admitting using intentional offside to their advantage, bitching and moaning about their precious Haka being shown due respect or flapping on about being 'poisoned' in 95, they'll quickly become the team everyone loves to hate.

In all honesty I wonder if your average Kiwi is an All Black fan first, Rugby fan second!

riddle_diddle

savagecabbages wrote: »

They only copied us anyway:p:p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fg4FyhZ-Kg

There's an interview with Buck Shelford, he's the NZ guy in this video who came eye ball to eyeball with the Irish captain at the time. In the interview Shelford recalls this moment as it was one of the first times he experienced a charge to the Haka. Instead of complaing and giving out about the Irish, he applauded them and said it was one of the best things he'd seen/been involved in. That the rush of adrenaline he got from it was out of this world.

I love the Haka too, its a tradition for most pacific island rugby teams. I dont see any harm in it to be honest, if you are on the opposing team i know it may seem daunting, but in fairness its a DANCE! Its not going to make the opposition any better or you any worse!!

[Jackass]

I often wonder why teams don't just do warm up drills during the Haka and completely ignore it.

MungBean

[Jackass] wrote: »

I often wonder why teams don't just do warm up drills during the Haka and completely ignore it.

They would be in breach of protocol as far as I'm aware. It would be the same result as for what the French did. Slap on the wrist for disrespecting the almighty all blacks.

keith16

[Jackass] wrote: »

I often wonder why teams don't just do warm up drills during the Haka and completely ignore it.

Italy did this in 2007 (they stayed well inside their own half) and I remember the commentator mentioning how it was 'disrespectful' and it was going to rile the ABs up - sure enough NZ put over 70 points on them!

I think the Haka and all the pacific island 'war-dances' are a great thing, loved the way France responded yesterday! I don't really buy into the whole intimidation / psychological gain - I would say more often than not, the opposing team can use it to get riled up - in any case, they are professional players and the haka should in no way act to intimidate a professional Rugby player.

GerM

[Jackass] wrote: »

I often wonder why teams don't just do warm up drills during the Haka and completely ignore it.

Not allowed.

Teams have to stand there, respectfully without showing any response or challenge to it. They cannot pass the 10m line. They must face it. Not really much wiggle room for any response.