What would you do to fix us?

MagicSean

Which of the options above would you do if you were made Taoiseach tomorrow and wanted to bring in some extra cash?

Dravokivich

24x7 licencing for booze.

chin_grin

Kill everyone. Mwaaahaahahahahhahaa. Oh, wait really?

Snakeblood

MagicSean wrote: »

Which of the options above would you do if you were made Taoiseach tomorrow and wanted to bring in some extra cash?

I'd also bring in tax breaks for porn shoots here. Get some decent riding in to cheer people up. Who knows, might even shake up the gene pool a bit.

MagicSean

Snakeblood wrote: »

I'd also bring in tax breaks for porn shoots here. Get some decent riding in to cheer people up. Who knows, might even shake up the gene pool a bit.

There's already an artists exemption isn't there?

Sykk

Even though I'm not a smoker I'd legalize cannabis. Banning something that grows naturally out of the ground, that is proven to cure many illnesses is absolutely absurd.

cosmicfart

im gonna go for option number 10, legaliZing the death penalty to save money on prison space and staff, yes go the american way and dont house ur murdering criminals in a pen at a cost to the taxpayer, just fry the fookers and be done with them, you could even legaliZe cannibalism and feed the homeless off the carcass's of those on death row.

haydar

I would do exactly what Ali G did in Ali G in Da House!!

daltonmd

All of the issues raised are societal problems.

During the boom and pre boom we had a drug/alcohol problem and prostitutes existed.

Taxing/legalising them, will not solve the problems. Any income derived from them will be evaporated on the cost to the health service/justice system.

daltonmd

PeterIanStaker

Sorry, I don't under stand the poll, what's "society?"

MungBean

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Sorry, I don't under stand the poll, what's "society?"

Giant housing estate.

MagicSean

daltonmd wrote: »

All of the issues raised are societal problems.

During the boom and pre boom we had a drug/alcohol problem and prostitutes existed.

Taxing/legalising them, will not solve the problems. Any income derived from them will be evaporated on the cost to the health service.

daltonmd

I would dispute that. A properly regulated prostituion industry would hurt nobody and would protect most of those involved in the industry. It's proven in most of Europe.

Reducing licencing restrictions would help to avoid the massive public order and transport problems caused by throwing everyone in the city out on the street at the exact same time every weekend.

The medical benefits of having cannabis available far outweigh the negative effects.

MungBean

Hard to see any of those being implemented and regulated to any kind of a decent degree in Ireland.

I'm not against them individually in future but not at the moment and all together with unemployment as it is I think creating jobs in Prostitution, Narcotics trade and allowing unlicensed premises to sell alcohol would create a cluster fcuk of immense proportions.

I really dont think we should be going down this road as a solution in any way shape or form to the current problem. Those are things that need to be brought in after being very very carefully looked at and very very tightly regulated, not as a quick bit of extra cash.

Badgermonkey

daltonmd wrote: »

Taxing/legalising them, will not solve the problems. Any income derived from them will be evaporated on the cost to the health service/justice system.

Court costs & extra policing

Legalising opiates would significantly reduce the incidence of crime committed to fund a habit, thus freeing up resources within the criminal justice system, including a reduction in the €70,000+ per annum cost of housing a prisoner in an Irish jail.

Medical care

It would reduce the burden on hospitals and ambulance services dealing with acute and chronic admissions as a result of impure street grade heroin, infectious disease and other complications common in those who consume heroin intravenously.

MagicSean

MungBean wrote: »

Hard to see any of those being implemented and regulated to any kind of a decent degree in Ireland.

I'm not against them individually in future but not at the moment and all together with unemployment as it is I think creating jobs in Prostitution, Narcotics trade and allowing unlicensed premises to sell alcohol would create a cluster fcuk of immense proportions.

I really dont think we should be going down this road as a solution in any way shape or form to the current problem. Those are things that need to be brought in after being very very carefully looked at and very very tightly regulated, not as a quick bit of extra cash.

I would agree that any implementation would probably be done badly here. That's not to say they are bad ideas though.

Most drugs i would disagree with completely. I think they provide no benefit and cause to much damage to the person and their family. But i think cannabis could be introduced with a minimum of trouble.

Drinking and whoring will always increase in a recession. It might as well be done safely and bring in some more money.

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Court costs & extra policing

Legalising opiates would significantly reduce the incidence of crime committed to fund a habit, thus freeing up resources within the criminal justice system, including a reduction in the €70,000+ per annum cost of housing a prisoner in an Irish jail.

Medical care

It would reduce the burden on hospitals and ambulance services dealing with acute and chronic admissions as a result of impure street grade heroin, infectious disease and other complications common in those who consume heroin intravenously.

I disagree. Extra quality drugs with most likely increase the price of them meaning that the black market would still exist in this area. If anything I think it would increase the amount of related crime.

daltonmd

MagicSean wrote: »

I would dispute that. A properly regulated prostituion industry would hurt nobody and would protect most of those involved in the industry. It's proven in most of Europe.

Reducing licencing restrictions would help to avoid the massive public order and transport problems caused by throwing everyone in the city out on the street at the exact same time every weekend.

The medical benefits of having cannabis available far outweigh the negative effects.

Well I would disagree.
Legalising prostitution does not benefit prostitutes, nor the reason for prostitution in the first place.

Reducing licencing restrictions, again, does not help alcoholism, and the detrimental effects on the alcoholic or their families.

It's a bit disingenuous to say "The medical benefits of having cannabis available far outweigh the negative effects. "

It's a derivative of cannabis, not smoking it, that has the medicinal healing properties. I certainly wouldn't dispute that.

A part of our nation have big issues/problems with alcohol for example, so putting restrictions and taxes on it won't solve these issues. Education and leading by example will.

daltonmd

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Court costs & extra policing

Legalising opiates would significantly reduce the incidence of crime committed to fund a habit, thus freeing up resources within the criminal justice system, including a reduction in the €70,000+ per annum cost of housing a prisoner in an Irish jail.

Medical care

It would reduce the burden on hospitals and ambulance services dealing with acute and chronic admissions as a result of impure street grade heroin, infectious disease and other complications common in those who consume heroin intravenously.

Linky link? Before I respond with my own facts please.

ScumLord

daltonmd wrote: »

Well I would disagree.
Legalising prostitution does not benefit prostitutes, nor the reason for prostitution in the first place.

It does benefit prostitutes, they're about the only people it benefits. In Netherlands at least the have to undergo health checks and being above board and legal allows the formation of unions and the likes.

daltonmd

ScumLord wrote: »

It does benefit prostitutes, they're about the only people it benefits. In Netherlands at least the have to undergo health checks and being above board and legal allows the formation of unions and the likes.

But it doesn't address why they go into prostitution in the first place.

It is not a "chosen" career. It is not what it appears to be, even in the Netherlands. There is a deeply dark and murky side, it "appears" bright and shiny, but it's not.

ScumLord

daltonmd wrote: »

But it doesn't address why they go into prostitution in the first place.

It is not a "chosen" career. It is not what it appears to be, even in the Netherlands. There is a deeply dark and murky side, it "appears" bright and shiny, but it's not.

I agree but it was never the intention to stop them becoming prostitutes that's a separate and much larger issue. The point of legalising prostitution is solely to protect the women that end up in that job, keeping them above board with some basic workers rights and a clear way out of the game is huge in my opinion.

IrishZeus

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Court costs & extra policing

€70,000+ per annum cost of housing a prisoner in an Irish jail.

Source...? Curious.

daltonmd

ScumLord wrote: »

I agree but it was never the intention to stop them becoming prostitutes that's a separate and much larger issue. The point of legalising prostitution is solely to protect the women that end up in that job, keeping them above board with some basic workers rights and a clear way out of the game is huge in my opinion.

Absolutely. But the question was "What would you do to fix us". And imo, the legislation does not go far enough to protect women.

ScumLord

daltonmd wrote: »

Absolutely. But the question was "What would you do to fix us". And imo, the legislation does not go far enough to protect women.

I think it's enough, any further and your restricting freedoms. It is essentially up to the women what they want to do with their lives. The only way to really stamp out prostitution is to make other work more appealing and have a population that's generally less likely to take advantage of others. That would only come with social change it can't be forced through. All legalising prostitution does is make the industry more transparent and reduce the harm that can be done.

Badgermonkey

daltonmd wrote: »

Linky link? Before I respond with my own facts please.

Such as

so putting restrictions and taxes on it won't solve these issues. Education and leading by example will.

You gonna quote Nancy Reagan and the cast of Grange Hill?

Were we to engage in an exhaustive trawl for abstruse reports on the efficacy of myriad models trialled in various jurisdictions, I may well lose the will to live. Should you wish to link to 'facts' supporting your assertions, I will of course (in classic boards fashion), pretend to read them.

Chuck Stone

MagicSean wrote: »

I disagree. Extra quality drugs with most likely increase the price of them meaning that the black market would still exist in this area. If anything I think it would increase the amount of related crime.

This is totally wrong pseudo-economics. If companies were able to compete to produce drugs in the free market the price would go down.

See economic equilibrium. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_equilibrium

paddyandy

For a start by legalising drugs we will have many 'accidents' that would be drug related.There is a minority in this country who want to live permanently in a drug/drink induced Stupor.

ZombieBride

Sykk wrote: »

Even though I'm not a smoker I'd legalize cannabis. Banning something that grows naturally out of the ground, that is proven to cure many illnesses is absolutely absurd.

I've never heard of the cannabis "cure" for any illness. It has a numbing effect for those with long term ailments but that is not a cure.

daltonmd

ScumLord wrote: »

I think it's enough, any further and your restricting freedoms. It is essentially up to the women what they want to do with their lives. The only way to really stamp out prostitution is to make other work more appealing and have a population that's generally less likely to take advantage of others. That would only come with social change it can't be forced through. All legalising prostitution does is make the industry more transparent and reduce the harm that can be done.

If I met a women who stated that selling her body for money was a good thing and a nice way to make a living then I could see an argument. I don't agree with legislation implemented to make a bad situation tolerable. I really don't.

It's just my opinion. I don't believe that we will ever stamp it out, because we are not capable of dealing with the deep rooted social problems that create this "profession".

I do agree that any protection is a plus, but I feel a little dirty in agreeing with this.

ScumLord

paddyandy wrote: »

For a start by legalising drugs we will have many 'accidents' that would be drug related.There is a minority in this country who want to live permanently in a drug/drink induced Stupor.

But that means they are already so changing the law will have no effect. It's like saying there's a minority in this country the always likes to be drunk lets ban drinking so they wont do it any more when we all know if they're alchos they'll drink either way. That's why we don't punish the entire population because of a tiny minority.

Badgermonkey

IrishZeus wrote: »

Source...? Curious.

€70,513 in 2010
http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/Irish_Prison_Service_2010_Annual_Report.pdf

Chuck Stone

Btw legalising drugs and prostitution wouldn't 'fix' us.

It would save money on policing, courts and prisons along with other economic benefits and we would probably see a decline in drug use (if we extrapolate the Portugeezers experience) and an increase in the safety and health of prostitutes.

Cee-Jay-Cee

MagicSean wrote: »

I would dispute that. A properly regulated prostituion industry would hurt nobody and would protect most of those involved in the industry. It's proven in most of Europe.

Sure ya couldnt be doing that...this is holy Roman Catlick Ireland...

Wattle

ZombieBride wrote: »

I've never heard of the cannabis "cure" for any illness. It has a numbing effect for those with long term ailments but that is not a cure.

A lot of people with MS swear by cannabis for relaxing them and reducing tremors. It's not a cure but it certainly relieves pain and discomfort.

daltonmd

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Such as



You gonna quote Nancy Reagan and the cast of Grange Hill?

Were we to engage in an exhaustive trawl for abstruse reports on the efficacy of myriad models trialled in various jurisdictions, I may well lose the will to live. Should you wish to link to 'facts' supporting your assertions, I will of course (in classic boards fashion), pretend to read them.

But that's your basis for your argument. Pleas allow me to respond accordingly?

ScumLord

Wattle wrote: »

A lot of people with MS swear by cannabis for relaxing them and reducing tremors. It's not a cure but it certainly relieves pain and discomfort.

The jury's still out on it's actual healing benefits, there are companies that have developed it as a spray for the use on cancer patients but the results are classified. There are very vocal people that swear it outright cures cancer simply by rubbing it on the affected area (skin cancer). At the moment it's only recommended as a way to alleviate the symptoms of cancer like poor apatite and pain.

As a pain treatment it's value is unquestionable.

daltonmd

Badgermonkey wrote: »

€70,513 in 2010
http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/Irish_Prison_Service_2010_Annual_Report.pdf

So you DO provide links?

Wattle

ScumLord wrote: »

The jury's still out on it's actual healing benefits, there are companies that have developed it as a spray for the use on cancer patients but the results are classified. There are very vocal people that swear it outright cures cancer simply by rubbing it on the affected area (skin cancer). At the moment it's only recommended as a way to alleviate the symptoms of cancer like poor apatite and pain.

As a pain treatment it's value is unquestionable.

I've never heard of it being used in the treatment of cancer but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that it helps in conditions like MS. Helps more effectively than prescribed legal drugs.

ScumLord

Wattle wrote: »

I've never heard of it being used in the treatment of cancer but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that it helps in conditions like MS. Helps more effectively than prescribed legal drugs.

Lots of anecdotal evidence posted on youtube of people describing using cannabis as a cure for cancer just search for cannabis cures cancer.

Jen Pigs Fly

I clicked everything.

why?

because I can :cool:

MagicSean

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I clicked everything.

why?

because I can :cool:

You've wrecked the internet. Well done.

cherryghost

Legalizing Cannabis would prevent some people travelling abroad from getting their legal fix. The issues been done to death here but I don't see it happening in the near future.

Wattle

There has been some decriminalisation in Spain and Portugal. Mind you in Ireland there is a big fat obstacle called Liveline

Eric Cartman

legalise all drugs , 24x7 booze , cut social welfare for those on it over 2 years , lower the tax on smokes , raise tax on co2 bands A&B on cars, cut the 1566/2100 euro tax rate in half to encourage people to buy bigger cars , allow the growing of industrial hemp, abolish the seanad, destroy the HSE and let private companies compete to run the health service cheaper , sack a load of useless council workers and farm out most of the services to private companies , abolish VRT , convert all the tax on diesel to VAT to help businesses , sell RTE , the RSA and a few other bodies, kick out all the foreigners on welfare , close our borders to certain nations (nigeria, romania) entirely, have a points system for other immigrants and have a 10 year ban on social welfare for any immigrant , remove custodial sentances for debt, drugs and other minor crimes, increase sentances for violent crimes, crack down hard on criminals from minority groups to improve the impression of the good elements of the groups. CPO all the assets of the catholic church in the way of health, education or community services, tax religions , dig up all the speed ramps, remove the 30km/h limit in dublin , arm the guards , allow people without criminal convictions / not in council housing to own guns and tax their sale.

Jen Pigs Fly

MagicSean wrote: »

You've wrecked the internet. Well done.

That's just how I roll :cool:

parrai

MagicSean wrote: »

I would dispute that. A properly regulated prostituion industry would hurt nobody and would protect most of those involved in the industry. It's proven in most of Europe.

How would regulating prostitution not hurt anybody? Do you think these women are providing this type of service are choosing it as a career choice?

strobe

parrai wrote: »

How would regulating prostitution not hurt anybody? Do you think these women are providing this type of service are choosing it as a career choice?

Do you think toilet cleaners are choosing that occupation as a career choice?

They do it to pay the bills.

If working in McDonalds paid the same as working in the sex industry I guarantee that most prostitutes would be cooking your Big Mac. But it doesn't. It can be an extremely well paid occupation for the qualifications and experience needed.

parrai

strobe wrote: »

Do you think toilet cleaners are choosing that occupation as a career choice?

They do it to pay the bills.

If working in McDonalds paid the same as working in the sex industry I guarantee that most prostitutes would be cooking your Big Mac. But it doesn't. It can be an extremely well paid occupation for the qualifications and experience needed.

All it is doing is saying to the male population that it is ok to sleep with prostitutes...

It can have nothing but negative effects on all involved in my opinion...

I don't think anyone would choose to be a toilet cleaner...

What does this (in bold) mean?

strobe

parrai wrote: »

All it is doing is saying to the male population that it is ok to sleep with prostitutes...

I sincerely doubt that the people not sleeping with prostitutes are not doing so primarily because it is illegal.

Although as long as they aren't being forced to sleep with someone against their will (in a more meaningful way than a toilet cleaner is being forced to clean a toilet against their will 'cause they need the money) I don't see what is all that wrong with sleeping with a prostitute. Not my kind of thing personally but I'd be interested to hear your argument as to how it's inherently wrong?

What does this (in bold) mean?

It means you can become a prostitute without having to have a degree from a university and 4 years on the job experience yet potentially earn the same as a lot of people that do. You can earn a lot of money and start doing so with no real skill or training or experience. Not many occupations provide that possibility.

Badgermonkey

daltonmd wrote: »

So you DO provide links?

A desultory gander provides the following.

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-policy-profiles/portugal

In Portugal, problem drug users — mainly heroin users — were the focus of the policy discussions and it was with them (and their problems) in mind that it was decided to change the law in 2000.

The second aspect that can be clarified from this policy profile is that the
decriminalisation of drug use should be understood as only one element of a larger policy change that has:

• progressively removed responsibilities from the Ministry of Justice to give them to the Ministry of Health

http://www.idpc.net/

There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal," said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law. The number of dependent users considered "problematic" -- those who repeatedly use "hard" drugs and intravenous users -- had fallen by half since the early 1990s, when the figure was estimated at around 100,000 people, Goulao said. Other factors had also played their part however, Goulao, a medical doctor added.

"This development can not only be attributed to decriminalisation but to a confluence of treatment and risk reduction policies."

Portugal's holistic approach had also led to a "spectacular" reduction in the number of infections among intravenous users and a significant drop in drug-related crimes, he added.

http://www.economist.com/node/14309861

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization

Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases caused by using dirty needles to inject heroin, cocaine and other illegal substances plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006

http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf

By freeing its citizens from the fear of prosecution and imprisonment for drug usage, Portugal has dramatically improved its ability to encourage drug addicts to avail themselves of treatment. The resources that were previously devoted to prosecuting and imprisoning drug addicts are now available to provide treatment programs to addicts.

Those developments, along with Portugal’s shift to a harm-reduction approach, have dramatically improved drug related social ills, including drug-caused mortalities and drug-related disease transmission

But “decriminalization” means that infractions have been removed completely from the framework of the criminal law and criminal justice system. Instead, they are treated as purely administrative violations, to be processed in a noncriminal proceeding.

parrai

First and foremost, the mortgage situation needs to be dealt with...

It is out of control at this stage...

The banks and the government need to face this head on, and quick...

Overheating of property prices has given way to negative equity which has been swallowing up money that could be spent in the economy...

The banks have been recapitalised to sustain this loss ALREADY... So before we go off on a tangent about taxpayers footing the loss, this has to be realised...

Everything in Ireland is too expensive... If it is only a small percentage, what you and I pay for in services right across the board has to be reduced...

Reducing costs along with Irelands reputation as a holiday destination would be a huge bonus for tourism...


We have the weather and land here to produce enough food to export to all of Europe, if it was sold at the right price, with the right marketing and volume, it could be very profitable for Ireland

Wind: We could be using our weather to provide power to europe and else where... Why should it take til 2020 to get this off the ground?

We have nearly half a million people on the dole here (who most of I'm sure) would only jump at the chance of a job

Internships could be used to train these people as these wind farms would need maintaining....The right companies from already established wind farms could be invited to tender for the training of people on the dole here to be trained in this (in my opinion) profitable field

Just a few thoughts...

Chuck Stone

parrai wrote: »

All it is doing is saying to the male population that it is ok to sleep with prostitutes...

Why you say 'male' only? Men buy sex off men. Women also hire men.

Why isn't it okay for two consenting adults to make a verbal contract to exchange sex for money and fulfill it?