Fantasy match up

cowzerp

This is total fantasy stuff-take weight out of the equation and assume all things are equal, so in other words a strong bantam is equal to a strong heavyweight!!

Who would you love to see match up in this scenario!

Im going to go with Muhammed Ali V Sugar Ray Leonard, imagine what that would be like if they where equal weights, and i don't mean a fat ray leonard!!

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

This is total fantasy stuff-take weight out of the equation and assume all things are equal, so in other words a strong bantam is equal to a strong heavyweight!!

Who would you love to see match up in this scenario!

Im going to go with Muhammed Ali V Sugar Ray Leonard, imagine what that would be like if they where equal weights, and i don't mean a fat ray leonard!!

Paul, impossible these type of matches. Leonard was as complete a fighter that ever could be. He had it all. Power, speed, feet, chin, inside and outside, guts, heart, stamina, variety. Very few fighters I have seen that had as much, apart from the likes of SRR.

But, as much as he had, he still gets KO'd by any heavyweight champion in history. Ok, because these are heavies, but that is just fact. It's impossble to know how these two would fare in some "mythical" p4p match.

I would grade them on a P4P basis:

Speed of feet and hand: Clay/Ali. I think that is almost a definite.

Power: Ray

Stamina: Ali by a shade.

Chin: Ali. Another almost definite. Aili's chin and recuperative abilities are top top notch.

Variety: Ray. More complete as an inside fighter.

Heart and Guts: Impossible to say, but leaning with Ali.

Overall, I just think that the Clay/Ali of 1964-1967 was the more amazing spectacle as a fighter. I mean, 200 plus lbs with feet and handspeed that welters hadn't got.

cowzerp

Your missing the whole point, this is assuming there all heavies and carry there attributes, for example wayne McCullough would be an iron chinned heavy with still feather fists, if there short in there division there short in this fantasy 1, if there tall same applies, so Wayne McCullough would be standard height heavy, use your imagination a little bit, this is not can a middle beat a heavy.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Your missing the whole point, this is assuming there all heavies and carry there attributes, for example wayne McCullough would be an iron chinned heavy with still feather fists, if there short in there division there short in this fantasy 1, if there tall same applies, so Wayne McCullough would be standard height heavy, use your imagination a little bit, this is not can a middle beat a heavy.

I know what it is; it's a mythical p4p match. These type of fights have been debated for years. Imagination or not, it is quite futile nonetheless, but I did reply all the same. My view on this match is that Ali wins. He was IMO the better fighter, at heavy/welter, or in a p4p sense.

IF, and I stress IF, we allow Ray to carry all his attributes with him to heavy, he would probably beat anyone. As I said, he was such a complete fighter. But, when I rate them in each category, Ali matches him well.

I see your logic and do understand it, and like it!

Spazdarn

It's a great idea, and is always bound to spark debate. I always wonder where Roberto Duran would be in my estimations, put up against some of the best boxers of the last decade.

I think comparing boxers on their attributes is harder, as if they're greats in the business they're probably stack up pretty well against each other... it's the fighters with the different styles that interest me the most.

joepenguin

Im going to say Leonard.

Ali was used to being the quicker guy most of the time and what made him great was he moved like a welter.
If Leonard carries his power up to the mythical heavyweight division then he poses ali more problems than Ali poses him.

walshb

Can you imagine we allowed Ali to drop to welter and carry all his traits. His speed would be off the freaking charts.

boxer.fan

Carlos Monzon v joe calzaghe
Jake la Motta v Mike Tyson


Great thread

walshb

We're a fair few posts in and only myself and joe have called this.

OP, your view on who may win?

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

Carlos Monzon v joe calzaghe
Jake la Motta v Mike Tyson


Great thread

Monzon ansd Cal were prettyy much equal weight. I would have to favor Joe here. Very busy, fit, tactically very good, big, good chin and great work rate. I see him outworking Monzon for a decision. I don't see anything with Monzon to trouble Joe too badly. Another area of Joe's that impresses me is his roughness and inside strength. He really can rough it up inside. Very deceptive strength. Lacy found that out.

Spazdarn

walshb wrote: »

We're a fair few posts in and only myself and joe have called this.

OP, your view on who may win?

Ah it's near impossible to choose, and near impossible to imagine how well someone's speed and strength would translate in a much higher weight division.

Sugar Ray seemed to have it all, though Ali's speed at heavyweight was freakish considering the size of the man. I think the only way I could decide is to look at both if Sugar Ray brought attributes to heavyweight and vice versa... and as Walshb mentioned, his speed at welter would have been insane.

I'd probably give it to Ali...

walshb

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Ah it's near impossible to choose, and near impossible to imagine how well someone's speed and strength would translate in a much higher weight division.
...

Well why have the thread then?;)

But, yes, as I (and you) pointed out it is futile. It's science fiction stuff, but I still gave it a go.

Spazdarn

Roberto Duran vs. Manny Pacquiao
Tyson vs. Ali

Prince Naseem vs. Kell Brooks

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

We're a fair few posts in and only myself and joe have called this.

OP, your view on who may win?

I'd give it to sugar ray Leonard, I think his power is better and I feel there even in speed and I would probably give srl the skill nod too

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Can you imagine we allowed Ali to drop to welter and carry all his traits. His speed would be off the freaking charts.

Actually going by how this is been done he'd be the fastest welter because he is the fastest heavy, so compared to sugar ray speed would be neglible difference, he was fast but I think his main speed was in his head, fight intelligence and timing, just like most true legends

ThunderCat

Great thread and so much to choose from

For me Mayweather v Pacquiao would still be high on this list as would...

Collins v Calzaghe
Collins v Hopkins
Julio Cesar Chavez v Pacquiao

walshb

ThunderCat wrote: »

Great thread and so much to choose from

For me Mayweather v Pacquiao would still be high on this list as would...

Collins v Calzaghe
Collins v Hopkins
Julio Cesar Chavez v Pacquiao

Calzaghe would have too much for Collins. Too much speed, feet, and every bit as strong and tough. Collins was a fair sized MW; Joe was a big SMW. Collins power won't trouble Joe.

Collins also loses to Hopkins. Hopkins too cute, slick and would pick Collins off.

Pacman at 140 or 147 is IMO too good for Chavez. Too fast, as tough, as heavy handed and with more variation. JCC eats a hell of a lot here.

walshb

My dream fantasy fights are:

Bowe-Lewis around 1992-1993. I pick Bowe to win, and possibly inside the distance.

Liston-Forerman peak to peak; wow, what a clash of beasts. Leaning with Liston's control and more
precise work. George too open, and Liston hits damn hard. You come to Liston, and it's likeky you lose.

And, finally; Toney-Hagler at 160/168 lbs catchweight. I think James pulls this off.
One their best night.

Kess73

Hagler vs Monzon

walshb

Kess73 wrote: »

Hagler vs Monzon

I will take Hagler on his best day. He makes this a close inside and rugged war. Always on top of Monzon and not allowing Monzon any distance.