shock collars?

boxermad

after moving into a new house the back garden isnt secure properly so when i was going to work i would but them into there dog run, when im there i would let them run the garden. today after dinner i went out the back but they had gone. had to call and call them and they came back after about 5mins. now im thinking of getting a shock coller fence for them so even when im at work they can have the freedom of the garden. any idea are they effective and if there cruel for dogs?

TooManyDogs

There's a long thread on them here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056333244

My personal experience is that they don't work, they're not 100% effective so you're better spending the money on a run from the likes of cilldara.ie

I had one for my lot years ago and spend a month training them to it but they would regularily leave the garden because the incentive to leave to chase something was greater than the shock and then they didnt have the same incentive to come back into the garden.

andreac

Yes they are cruel.

Of course its cruel to give an animal an electric shock around its neck...

It amazes me that people have to actually ask that question...

Delancey

Last month I found a lovely little stray out on the main road near my home - she clearly didn't have a clue and without doubt was going to be killed by a car ( it was 2am btw ).
I brought her home with me and phoned the Dog Warden next morning to enquire if she had been reported , she had and was happily re-united with her owner 15 minutes later.
We were able to ID her not by an ID tag because she didn't have one but rather because she wore a shock collar which kinda shows just how much use they are :rolleyes:

sionnaic

Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole myself - they are cruel, they will hurt your dog and they are in no way a safe method of keeping your dog secure.
My in-laws have one (a sore point!!) and their westies have run straight over the wire, gotten shocked, yelped a lot, and it actually just made them run faster in the wrong direction (across a road!!) rather than being a deterrant. They still use it of course
We moved house and now have big garden in the country - we spent a couple of weekends and the best part of a grand fencing it ourselves. But now we have peace of mind and our dogs won't be electrocuted

eoinburke67

I know this is a touchy spot for pet owners, but I'm for them. I'd rather not have it but it was a choice of a couple thousand to put a good fence up or a collar for 200. I went with the collar and haven't looked back. It's not perfect but it works. It took my beagle 3 days to get used to the beep that sounds when she is 2 m away for the wire around the boundaries. The reason you see peoples dog out and about mostly is because they don't change the battery in the collar because they don't know when it's used up. Dogs are smart and lern after a while when it's gone when beep becomes quieter. My beagle knows when its up and will make a beake for it. So I get a battery every month and a half and she never gets out. I also have a 6x10 dog run I put her in when I'm gone out not to have the collar on her all the time as she tends to get a bald batch on her neck from it. It must also be said that the. Collars don't work for everydog some take it on as a challenge to beat it and get through, thankfully mine didn't mainly big dogs tend to challenge it. All in all it is worth it the dog will learn quickly where they can go and can't and then no pain is experienced. It's better then a coupe grand for a fence or the vet bill for your dog being knocked down.
One last note if you get one don't let the dog have full freedom while at work the battery will get run down very quickly. Take the collar off and put them in the pen for their safeties sake
just wanted to say, before i put the shock collar on the dog i shocked myself to see if it was cruel and to be honest it wasn't painful more of a shock from the unexpected i didn't know when or what was going to happen. its not painful just unexpected like when someone out of now where jumps up behind you and scares you for no reason

Delancey

Eoin mentions one of the greatest failures of the collars - the batteries run out and then the whole device is as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Batteries have to be changed before they discharge , how many people are going to be disciplined enough to do this ?

carlosvan

dam it, i just bought a chocolate teapot, !!

DBB

eoinburke67 wrote: »

The reason you see peoples dog out and about mostly is because they don't change the battery in the collar because they don't know when it's used up.

I don't accept this. Yes, some dogs get out because the battery is fading, but most dogs I've met (and I've met quite a few of them) have escaped for any of the following reasons:
There was a power cut
They followed their owner out over the boundary
They chased something out over the boundary
They were chased out over the boundary by another dog(s) or people
They ran across the boundary to get away from something that came into the garden that frightened them (e.g. lightening, gunfire).

My own personal experience, back in the dim, dark past when I too justified using the radio fence the same way you justify it, was that my dogs, who were really well trained onto the system, would take the shock to follow me, or good friends (human and dog) over the boundary. My westie went missing for several hours after following my friend's son when he walked past the house... and I was at home keeping an eye on him:eek:
However, seeing my dogs squirm, tense up, brace themselves, and run across the boundary as fast as they could, squealing on their way out, made me cop myself on and quit trying to justify using these things.
For the record, the system I used malfunctioned one day: I only discovered the malfunction when I happened to be putting the collars on the dogs in the house, but as I picked them up they started bleeping and discharging... in the house:eek:, and I subsequently found out, everywhere in the garden.
I cringe to think what would have been if the dogs had been wearing those bloody collars that day . That was the last day they were used.

when I'm gone out not to have the collar on her all the time as she tends to get a bald batch on her neck from it.

:eek::(

One last note if you get one don't let the dog have full freedom while at work the battery will get run down very quickly. Take the collar off and put them in the pen for their safeties sake

Or, if you're out at all or not able to supervise your dogs, leave them in the pen where they can't get out of the garden! Works every time! The rest of the time, dogs are either in the house or out on walks. No need for a radio fence/bald spot on neck at all!

just wanted to say, before i put the shock collar on the dog i shocked myself to see if it was cruel and to be honest it wasn't painful more of a shock from the unexpected i didn't know when or what was going to happen.its not painful just unexpected like when someone out of now where jumps up behind you and scares you for no reason

With all due respect, whilst a human can rationalise why the shock is happening, a dog can't. Sure, perhaps the shock may not be horribly painful (though I'm wondering did you test the collar on your throat?), but for an animals, it's the anticipation of the shock which is particularly harmful, because it causes psychological distress. Psychological injury is often conveniently forgotten about or disregarded if there's no obvious sign of physical injury. I have spent time with a number of dogs who are dysfunctional when brought out into the garden, so unsure are they or why the shock seems to happen some times but not others. It is heartbreaking to watch, I can assure you.
For the record, I have also tested a few different brands of e-collar on my hand... in all cases, at best and bearing in mind I've a reasonably high pain threshold, the shock was enough to make me gasp and let go of the collar. I've had more painful things happen to me, but I would still categorise the shock from these collars as being quite unpleasant.

Whispered

Something which causes a bald spot on a dog is obviously damaging them in fairness. And that is just the physical part. The pyschological problems are harder to spot, harder to deal with and longer lasting.

OP for the fact that it uses pain to get a response you want, the fact that dogs very very regularly break out of them and the fact that it affords the dog no protection from intruders into his garden I would steer well clear. A proper enclosure, even if it has to be a small-ish one is safer for your dog and for you.

On a side note, I would love to see if you can get a gag gift of a chocolate tea-pot. Going on the list for my mother next easter!

ppink

eoinburke67 wrote: »

I know this is a touchy spot for pet owners, but I'm for them. I'd rather not have it but it was a choice of a couple thousand to put a good fence up or a collar for 200. I went with the collar and haven't looked back. It's not perfect but it works. It took my beagle 3 days to get used to the beep that sounds when she is 2 m away for the wire around the boundaries. The reason you see peoples dog out and about mostly is because they don't change the battery in the collar because they don't know when it's used up. Dogs are smart and lern after a while when it's gone when beep becomes quieter. My beagle knows when its up and will make a beake for it. So I get a battery every month and a half and she never gets out. I also have a 6x10 dog run I put her in when I'm gone out not to have the collar on her all the time as she tends to get a bald batch on her neck from it. It must also be said that the. Collars don't work for everydog some take it on as a challenge to beat it and get through, thankfully mine didn't mainly big dogs tend to challenge it. All in all it is worth it the dog will learn quickly where they can go and can't and then no pain is experienced. It's better then a coupe grand for a fence or the vet bill for your dog being knocked down.
One last note if you get one don't let the dog have full freedom while at work the battery will get run down very quickly. Take the collar off and put them in the pen for their safeties sake
just wanted to say, before i put the shock collar on the dog i shocked myself to see if it was cruel and to be honest it wasn't painful more of a shock from the unexpected i didn't know when or what was going to happen. its not painful just unexpected like when someone out of now where jumps up behind you and scares you for no reason

dont forget to stick a nice €50 in the dogs collar for a bonus for the people that steal dogs who are not fenced in properly and wearing one of those nice collars.

did you try that collar on your neck?

portgirl123

if these collars are been used instead of proper fencing, how does it stop anyone getting on to yourt property and stealing dog. i would rather spend a grand on putting proper fencing up than using one of these collars. in my opinion they should be banned as they are in wales.

Gophur

The shock collars are a very emotive subject for many. They are a very effective deterrent, if the dogs are trained to recognise their boundary and, as was pointed out, they emit an audible warning in advance of any electric shock.

We're used them, successfully. The dogs know the limits and will back away when they hear the sound. (The cat, also, knew where she could sit, just out of reach of the dog.)

They do not electrocute dogs. Electrocute means to give a shock strong enough to kill. Using such terms is wrong and unnecessary.

And, a fence, no matter how strong or high, will not stop a thief from getting a dog if he/she wants it.

Honey-ec

eoinburke67 wrote: »

It's better then a coupe grand for a fence or the vet bill for your dog being knocked down.

What about the vet bill if your dog is attacked by a roaming dog who can enter your property at will because you haven't fenced it off?

OP, my stock response to anyone considering a shock collar is this: Buy one. Put it on yourself. Give yourself a shock at full whack. If, after that, you can in good conscience say you have no problem doing the same thing to your dog, then by all means fire away.

Whispered

Gophur wrote: »

Using such terms is wrong and unnecessary.

You use a shock collar and yet say the term commonly used to describe the effect is "wrong and unnecessary" . Shock collars are wrong and unnecessary. And yes they do electrocute. They administer an electric shock. If you were to get a shock from a plug for example wouldn't you describe it as getting electrocuted? May not be technically correct, but in common usage. Anyway, what does it matter, they do what they do, just by changing the language around it doesn't make it any less painful, or safe.

I'd prefer to make it a bit more difficult for a potential thief to take my dog than simply walk in and lead him out (causing pain along the way).

Gophur

Whispered wrote: »

.........If you were to get a shock from a plug for example wouldn't you describe it as getting electrocuted?.............

I wouldn't. Electrocuted describes a fatal shock.

portgirl123

gophur can i ask why, if these collars aint cruel etc why they have been banned in wales and why are other counties looking to bring the ban in?