Roisin Shorthall to introduce minimum price controls on alcohol...

HellFireClub

Here we go again, more political meddling to appease publicans, all in the name of protecting us from ourselves...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minister-wants-to-impose-minimum-price-for-alcohol-524777.html

BeeDI

HellFireClub wrote: »

Here we go again, more political meddling to appease publicans, all in the name of protecting us from ourselves...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minister-wants-to-impose-minimum-price-for-alcohol-524777.html

The last remaining crumb of comfort we have left, is about to be fcuked up by Roisisn Shortarse. FFS:(

Bartyman

HellFireClub wrote: »

Here we go again, more political meddling to appease publicans, all in the name of protecting us from ourselves...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minister-wants-to-impose-minimum-price-for-alcohol-524777.html

Here we go again, more taxes to help bankers, all in the name of protecting us from ourselves...

drunkmonkey

She's hoping to start charging for drink by the ounce shortly (seriously) is this woman completely off her head? Why is anyone even listening to her.

She's going to achieve nothing only to increase sales of drink and drugs on the black market. Maybe that's good for the 1st economy, i'm not sure?

charlemont

Typical bog politics, This should not be allowed to happen but I fear it will.

ei.sdraob

more nanny statism


first they come for your burger, then for your bottle, then for you

WalterMitty

This will fail due to
a) cheap drink available a short drive across border, or is she gonna deploy army on border ?
b) people can bring in van loads of stuff from France for next to nothing and share with their friends.
c) we already have amongst the highest prices in world for drink and it hasnt stopped abuse of alcohol.
d) if her law came in sales in ireland would drop hitting tax revenue and her government collegues would go mental.

mightybashful

She goes out in public with a face like that??????

Manach

Queue to Northern Ireland again?

Sleepy

#headdesk

Unbelievable muppetry.

Anyone

Seems the Vintners Association is still a powerful lobbying group then.

D1stant

"Recently one of the supermarkets was selling two bottles of wine for a fiver. Now, you know, that's less than the actual excise duty on those bottles of wine, and I'd like to move to a certain situation "

Recently the state and the banks colluded in selling homes for 3 or 4 times what they were worth in order to serve tax income, employment, developer and bank profits. When the whole pyramid of shit came tumbling down, we boxed up the shit and made them eat it. I'd like to move to a certain country

Geuze

As I told Conor Pope of the Irish Times, it is incorrect to say that the Lidl 2 for 5 euro wine offer didn't cover the excise duty.

The IT article on Sat 24th Sep had a wrong figure for excise on wine.

“A bottle of wine attracts excise duty of €2.72”

This is incorrect.

Here are the excise rates from the Revenue website:

Still, exceeding 5.5% volume but not exceeding 15% volume = 262.24 per hectolitre

So it’s 2.6224 per litre or €1.97 approx per 75cl bottle.

Here is a link to the relevant section of the Revenue website:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/excise/duties/excise-duty-rates.html

The Minister made the comments at the launch of a new report from the National Advisory Committee on Drugs which found that children of parents who abuse drink or drugs are more likely to have problems with mental health, school and addiction.

I can see all the alcoholics giving up drinking altogether when this comes in. Good thinking, Roisin, we could do with a lot more like you!

First they take our prostitutes and now they want our booze, why not just come straight out and ban fun altogether because, you know, some people can't handle all the fun

I'm a non-drinker and even I think this is a harebrained idea. We should be moving FORWARD with our laws regarding drink/drugs/sex etc, not backwards.

gurramok

So it is shown that a minority abuse alcohol to the detriment of the vast majority who behave themselves. In that case shouldn't we have contempt for politicians from which the majority in the last Dail abused their positions(FF)?

We must have one of the highest sales prices for alcohol in Europe, does it not ring a bell in her head that the price is not the problem??

Ald

As I'm not a big drinker and I have first hand experience with family that had drink problems I'm not opposed to this. I don't see it as nanny state politic but rather a solution to a problem that the general public couldn't solve on their own.

But I think it shouldn't just be a bill to impose price fixing of alcohol alone. It should be a wide ranging bill against any widely available substance that does harm. Cigarettes and fatty foods need targetting too. Cigarettes especially.

RichardAnd

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I'm a non-drinker and even I think this is a harebrained idea. We should be moving FORWARD with our laws regarding drink/drugs/sex etc, not backwards.

This has nothing to do with a liberal view of wasting time and money (because let's be honest, drink drugs and sex are just that...possible exception for the latter). What this is, is another way to generate more tax wrapped up in the magnanimous wrapper of trying to clamp down on alcohol abuse. The government doesn't care what a person does to their body, it's all down to revenue.

DublinWriter

Irish governments only have only two approaches to problems - tax it or ban it and in the case of tobacco they managed to do both.

Joey the lips

I loved the quote by Roisins running mate andrew monty

"The LVF agree with us and support us"

Grow up andrew...This is obvious even to the most stupid.

ninty9er

As someone who's left to deal with some of the consequences I can see where she's coming from.

Try and find somewhere that isn't a pub to buy alcohol in Sweden, let alone actually manage to buy stuff from it. I fell at hurdle one when I was there for a weekend.

Tazz T

If you've dealt with the consequences then you'll know better than anyone if putting up the minimum price of alcohol will fix it. Will it stop problem drinkers drinking?

bazza1

Fantastic idea!! Lower the prices in pubs to match the prices in Lidl etc!
G'wan Roisin!!!!

km79

Both myself and wife work. Mortgage 2 cars 2kids etc etc. We can't afford to eat out or go out anymore. Don't really miss it TBH. however we do like to a couple of beers on a sat night after the kids go to bed. Now the govt want to tax the only bit of socializing we do . And it's in our own house
They can f**k off....

votecounts

Lenihan reduces the price of a pint by 15c to generate sales for the publican, this obviously hasn't helped them. So now the supermarkets (the competition) have been targeted.
Interest groups alive and well.

Tazz T

Now there is vote-winning idea.

Joey the lips

km79 wrote: »

Both myself and wife work. Mortgage 2 cars 2kids etc etc. We can't afford to eat out or go out anymore. Don't really miss it TBH. however we do like to a couple of beers on a sat night after the kids go to bed. Now the govt want to tax the only bit of socializing we do . And it's in our own house
They can f**k off....

This was my point.... Its not effecting the scum. Its effect the normal worker.

km79

I don't normally post moany anti govt things like that but I am genuinely annoyed at the sneakiness of it all. And it is plainly obvious it will be counter productive with more people going back up North for it and while they are up there they will buy groceries, electrical goods etc

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Dirk Gently

I thought FF were the publican party?

uncle_sam_ie

ninty9er wrote: »

As someone who's left to deal with some of the consequences I can see where she's coming from.

Try and find somewhere that isn't a pub to buy alcohol in Sweden, let alone actually manage to buy stuff from it. I fell at hurdle one when I was there for a weekend.

They find it alright.
I have friends in Sweden and they do a lot of home brewing there. I went to see them a few years back and took the ferry over to Helsinborg. All the cars over were full to the brim with beer and wine. The ferry had foot passengers with shopping trolleys full with it. It was amazing to see. On the Denmark side there were selling booze direct out of large shipping containers.

noxqs

Norway and Sweden has the highest alcohol prices, in the world, and they got plenty of alcoholics. Taxing does nothing.

It's just the government needs revenue.

I don't need to be told to think of the children like she does in the first paragraph. Just tell it to my face..

"We desperately need money, and we noticed one more area to tax. Sorry".

I wish politicians would start to just say it as it is.

Tazz T

We should tax people like Roisin for coming out with idiotic, knee jerk, unresearched ideas.

How about this Roisin? Use a license system to stop underage and people who perpetrate alcohol related crime being able to purchase or consume alcohol. Or is that too simple?

Oh, you wouldn't be able to make money from it or divert the people's attention from the real crisises in the country that you're doing nothing about.

thebman

This is the interesting thing to note about Sweden and what has happened there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_Sweden#History

Since prehistory, beer was the staple beverage in Sweden, drunk in extreme quantities to balance the salty food—pickled herring and (if affordable) salted pork were the major protein sources for most people.[dubious – discuss] Mead was a common delicacy. Distilling was introduced in the 15th century. Prohibition against production and/or sale of brännvin—distilled alcohol—has been enforced during some periods.

As Sweden was industrialized and urbanized during the 19th century, industrially produced brännvin became more available, and alcohol caused increasing health and social problems. The temperance movement rose, and since 1905, government has a monopoly on sales of liquor. The Swedish prohibition referendum in 1922 resulted in continued sales of alcohol. A rationing system, called Brattsystemet or motbok, was used until 1955. As Sweden entered the EU in 1995, drinking habits became more continental, and regulations were relaxed. Systembolaget introduced box wine and law allowed private enterprises to import and market alcohol—though the retail monopoly remained. Consumption of alcohol increased by 30 % from 1995 to 2005.

Crazy Horse 6

Was this all part of the 5 point plan?:rolleyes:

Vizzy

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Was this all part of the 5 point pint plan?:rolleyes:

FYP

Deputy Shortall recently told the Oireachtas Committee on Health the forthcoming national substance misuse strategy would set targets to reduce alcohol consumption levels right across the population.
...
The comments come following a similar announcement by the Vintners’ Federation of Ireland (VFI) that they too backed calls by Alcohol Action Ireland for a minimum price for alcohol.

No possible motives there, then
:rolleyes:

All this talk about alcohol controls reeks of "pubs are losing business" to me

What a stupid idea

senordingdong

WalterMitty wrote: »

This will fail due to
a) cheap drink available a short drive across border, or is she gonna deploy army on border ?

Don't scoff at it. I bet it will happen.

Revenue officers will be waiting at the border with Gardaí and will tell you that they will not let you take the drink home unless you pay the Irish excise. If they can do it at an airport than why not on the roads?

noxqs wrote:

Norway and Sweden has the highest alcohol prices, in the world, and they got plenty of alcoholics. Taxing does nothing.

They're no fools either, they go in droves to Germay to stock up on cheap booze!

noxqs

Germany is pretty far away from Norway and Sweden - I am not sure about the cost/benefit of that. Perhaps you mean Denmark? And that's pretty far away from most of Norway and Sweden looking at the map here. Also they don't seem to allow much alcohol over the border - except Sweden which is in the EU.

In any event - anyone living close to a border with cheaper goods have a benefit.

If this is a lobbyist effort from the publicans perhaps they should do some soul searching and look at the general situation in this country. There is no possible way protectionism is going to help them get more business.

amacachi

senordingdong wrote: »

Don't scoff at it. I bet it will happen.

Revenue officers will be waiting at the border with Gardaí and will tell you that they will not let you take the drink home unless you pay the Irish excise. If they can do it at an airport than why not on the roads?

They're no fools either, they go in droves to Germay to stock up on cheap booze!

Will they be blocking every country gate as well?

RichardAnd

On the subject of home brewing, does anyone recall when easons used to stock brewing supplies?

A friend of my brother recently tried his hand at home brewing. His first bath of bathtub brew was woeful (it got him and my brother pissed mind you ) but his subsequent efforts have been improving. He now makes a pretty decent beer. Perhaps this joke will inspire people to take up the moonshine business.

senordingdong

noxqs wrote: »

Germany is pretty far away from Norway and Sweden - I am not sure about the cost/benefit of that. .

Seems a common enough practice according to this Swedish news article.

amacachi wrote:

Will they be blocking every country gate as well?

If there is money to be made then you bet your bollocks to a barn dance that they will spend whatever they need to make it.

thebman

RichardAnd wrote: »

On the subject of home brewing, does anyone recall when easons used to stock brewing supplies?

A friend of my brother recently tried his hand at home brewing. His first bath of bathtub brew was woeful (it got him and my brother pissed mind you ) but his subsequent efforts have been improving. He now makes a pretty decent beer. Perhaps this joke will inspire people to take up the moonshine business.

You can buy home brew kits online cheap including brewing containers and there home brew shops in Ireland still.

I don't see the problem with this though. Sweden does make a very good case study here for anyone that wants to try to look at the issue on merit.

I wouldn't have been in favor of it (still don't really care) but I'm much more open to it after reading up on Sweden's historical and current approach to alcohol sales.

ninty9er

Tazz T wrote: »

If you've dealt with the consequences then you'll know better than anyone if putting up the minimum price of alcohol will fix it. Will it stop problem drinkers drinking?

Being honest about it, the problem is that the price incentivises drinking at home. People can drink a shoulder of [insert drink here] don't realise they are having 10 measures BEFORE they hit a pub.

It's not socialising if you're drinking at home, it anti-social. Prices in pubs HAVE come down, publicans have laid off staff to cut costs, but still cannot compete. In an ideal world the pubs would charge offie prices and that would resolve the main problem, which isn't about the level of drinking alone, but the environment in which it is happening.

sdanseo

Ladies and gentlemen, in the words of the Stone Roses - I give you a real life ressurection - of the groceries order

senordingdong

thebman wrote: »

You can buy home brew kits online cheap including brewing containers and there home brew shops in Ireland still.

I don't see the problem with this though. Sweden does make a very good case study here for anyone that wants to try to look at the issue on merit.

I wouldn't have been in favor of it (still don't really care) but I'm much more open to it after reading up on Sweden's historical and current approach to alcohol sales.

The two are not comparable imo.
Sweden had a completely different breed of alcohol problem then what we have.
And as the article I linked in another post shows, Swedes have gotten sick of that nanny state nonsense and make other arrangements to drink what they like when they like.

Cookie_Monster

By the ounce eh?

She is aware we've had the metric system for 44 years now, right?
:rolleyes:


As for the actual increase, it's nothing more than another stealth tax, will have zero health benefits and will prevent no-one becoming or remaining an alco

CDfm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

As for the actual increase, it's nothing more than another stealth tax, will have zero health benefits and will prevent no-one becoming or remaining an alco

I agree with you.

The proposed alcohol and cigerette taxes are taxes on poor people

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1019/1224306073985.html

As for the poppycock about an increase in price forcing people to give up. If that was the case double the price and 80% of people will give up.

The idea that the Price Elasticity of Demand and Marginal Propensity to Consume will react that way for an addictive product is bull****.

http://economics.about.com/cs/micfrohelp/a/priceelasticity.htm

What about this scenario, the government adds the taxes to raise X million in taxes and adds 10 euro to Nora's weekly shop.

Nora says well fine I will cut back on sausages for the kids and get cheaper cuts of meat with a higher fat /husk content to save that 10 euro.

Thats how these things work.

Roisin Shortall's proposals are simply taking food out of the mouths of babes.

It is not being cynical to say so because she absolulely knows this is the case and is absolutely hoping it will react this way to raise a revenue target.

Its Johnny Drama

Who is Rosin Shortall to decide what the minimum price of drink is?..In a country were the cost of living is high, she is suggesting we should not be selling cheap drink.if a store was selling a bread & milk combo for 50 cent,there wouldnt be any ranting & raving about it. If a store wants to sell drink for €1 & therefore make money from selling other products in the store,they should be allowed do so

I hate this Irish attitude towards liqour, you cant buy a drink in a store after 10pm which is ridiculous...the nights only getting started & clubs have to stop serving at 2.30 unless they have a later licence. What is this big obsession with controlling irish people & drink? Its like the governent dont trust grown adults to drink in moderation.

Personally i dont drink that often,once a week on a Saturday night but why should i be limited to where,when & how much i pay for drink?

There is do many stupid decisions made by goverment heads, a lot of decisions that actually damage the economy,rather than help it

abouttobebanned

Wow. I think this is the first thread on after hours where everyone is in agreement.

The Irish government really has its priorities all wrong.

RichardAnd

ninty9er wrote: »

Being honest about it, the problem is that the price incentivises drinking at home. People can drink a shoulder of [insert drink here] don't realise they are having 10 measures BEFORE they hit a pub.

It's not socialising if you're drinking at home, it anti-social. Prices in pubs HAVE come down, publicans have laid off staff to cut costs, but still cannot compete. In an ideal world the pubs would charge offie prices and that would resolve the main problem, which isn't about the level of drinking alone, but the environment in which it is happening.

Maybe but isn't "prezies" an integral part of the ritual of Irish drinking? I personally don't drink or waste my time and money on nights out but my brother always has his mates down before they hit the down. They're drinking in the home but they are being social about it. I don't think the price is really all that's at work here but I don't really know as I've never given it much thought.

Mr Benevolent

Damn them, I'm going back to making my own alcohol.