Pay To Play Gig ***MOD WARNING POST #1***

matthayward

Just showing this for some interest, it seems he will get 30,000 for this show if I do the numbers right... Um, scamming much?? I think any musician on the Dublin scene will know who this is-

About The Performance Festival :
Performance Festival is now in its seventh year. Last year saw 100 Acts play at Whelans & The Village with an attendance of over 2,000 people. The concept of the the show is to give Irish talent a platform to play in front of large audiences in quality venues.
Performance 2011 will be held over 3 days at The Sugar Club December 27th to 29th. There will be 2 stages - Band stage & Acoustic stage. Over 90 acts will play at this years show. Last year we had over 140 acts apply.
Each day there is an all ages day show that runs from 11am to 6pm and an over 18s night show that runs from 7pm to 2.30am.
Slots are 35 min for bands at night and 30 min for bands at day time and 30 min for acoustic acts at night. There is also a 10 min change over. There will be a stage manager, engineer and backline required on each stage.

How to Apply :

There are three ways to apply

A) You can confirm your slot right away by prebuying 30 tickets at Ten euro each. ( This is the minimum amount you can prebuy to confirm your slot )

You can confirm your slot by a Payment plan of prebuying your tickets in 3 installments of 100 euro.

C) If not all slots are taken through A & B method we will issue tickets without prebuy and confirm slots.

( Please note Solo acts & Duos only have to prebuy 20 tickets )

* So please put A,B or C in the box on the application form.



How it works with tickets -

For bands anything after 40 tickets is their money, we also ask people on the door who they are there to see and that 10 euro is added on to their total overall amount.
Solo acts & Duos receive everything after 30 people ( tickets ) to see them.


In the event of an individual act cancelling we will not refund
tickets, ticket holders can still come to the show.
in the event of an act cancelling while in the middle of a payment plan they must return unsold tickets and balance out payment.
3 day pass is available which covers entry for the day and night show for the 3 days at just €25 and is only available from Wav.
Tickets are available from the Wav ticket office at Whelans and from band members.

Please make sure you have read this email carefully and please fill out the attached form and email it back.
Oct 20th will be the next day of Issuing tickets and confirming slots and we will also have a brief tour of the Sugar Club.

Look Forward to hearing back from you

Regards
***** *******



I mean starting at 11am?? Who goes to a gig at 11am to play a 30min slot they paid 300 euro for?? That's only one point, I could ramble for days... Honestly this is just sick. Oh and in a later email:

''as well as if a band cancels in option C they must pay 100 euro cancelation fee.''

100 goes towards what??!?! He's already getting 300 from every band!??!

MOD WARNING:
ANYTHING LIBELOUS WILL LEAD TO A BAN.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Folmhaim

I played this a couple of years ago, back then he'd give you a certain number of tickets and you sold them at ten quid each, and if you sold your quota you could keep the money from whatever other tickets you sold. Guess he's become much more of a scab since then. Your man's name is *****, people used to call him "Scabby *****", and with good reason.

icanplaydrums

In a band myself. Heard of him from other guys and everybody I know has either had bad experiences with him or told me to stay away from him and not to do business with him under any circumstances. Especially to try and do this to under 18s who from personal experience have enough trouble getting gigs and trying to get their best mates to go, never mind paying 300 euro.

Furious-Red

Wow €300 just to play at the Sugar Club? Sadly there will be young acts who will think its a great idea and will think if we play this we will get known etc

Kinda reminds me of that Emergenza thing

ANYTHING LIBELOUS WILL LEAD TO A BAN.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Havermeyer

€300 is pretty steep. It's been a while since I've played anywhere, but surely at that price you'd nearly get some places in town for yourself?

Malice

Haven't we been through enough threads like this? Pay to Play is bad, most people with half a brain should be able to do the maths and figure that out for themselves.

Interestingly enough, there has been a deleted post on this thread which mentions what I assume to be the same person based on a bit of detective work so I would echo Pappa Dolla's post above to not post anything that could get us into trouble as the person in question is doubtless watching us.

noideaforaname

Don't work with this lad, I've been there before and all myself and the rest of the band had was hassle and a bad buzz with the fella.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

selling 30 tickets at a tenner each? starting at 11am? this made me laugh.

Sidney77

Anything after 40 is your money? So you sell your 30, he makes the money for 10 more and only after 41 are sold you get money. Ridiculous.

I did a few gigs (possibly for same guy) but it cost a lot less and it was for venue hire and included soundman and PA. Any money taken was our own. That was a few years ago.

son.of.jimi

I performed at a gig of his earlier this year, told us the same thing over 'x' amount of people in and you get that money.

We had between 115 - 120 turn up just to see us and we know that for a fact. We were the last act performing on the night.

After we played our set (Which we rocked) we went looking for him... only person left was the sound tech and he informed us that the promoter had left 5 mins after our set started. So he left with OUR money and to this day has never paid us.

noideaforaname

son.of.jimi wrote: »

I performed at a gig of his earlier this year, told us the same thing over 'x' amount of people in and you get that money.

We had between 115 - 120 turn up just to see us and we know that for a fact. We were the last act performing on the night.

After we played our set (Which we rocked) we went looking for him... only person left was the sound tech and he informed us that the promoter had left 5 mins after our set started. So he left with OUR money and to this day has never paid us.

C**t

Malice

noideaforaname: I hope that's not aimed at son.of.jimi.

son.of.jimi: Did you try pursuing the guy through the small claims court?

son.of.jimi

Malice wrote: »

son.of.jimi: Did you try pursuing the guy through the small claims court?

We didn't bother, it's more hassle than it's worth. But there are a few names that keep springing up who claim to be promoters but are actually scammers. We keep the dealing with promoters to a minimum now.

noideaforaname

Malice wrote: »

noideaforaname: I hope that's not aimed at son.of.jimi.

No Malice, it was aimed at the promoter of these shambolic gigs.

off.the.walls

Unless they had it in writing then the small claims court couldn't do anything about it.

raindog.promo

If it's the same person I think it is, let me add my anecdote.

I was in a band and organising gigs and this person got in touch with me asking would we like to play this night (or I might have got in touch with him responding to an ad, my memory's fuzzy) and said person named a date, I said I'll have to check with the others, it clashed with the drummer so i texted back that we couldn't play. The next week I open a copy of Hot Press and there's the band name in the listings for the gig

Professional, eh?

Malice

son.of.jimi wrote: »

We didn't bother, it's more hassle than it's worth.

Sadly that's often the way with legal battles. Being in the right is not always enough.

off.the.walls wrote: »

Unless they had it in writing then the small claims court couldn't do anything about it.

Well yeah, there would have to be some sort of proof. That's why verbal contracts and hearsay aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

matthayward

Well I'm just happy everyone's on the same boat. I posted this to make the younger bands aware of the thieves that feed on the music scene here, it's disgusting. If 10% of these bands (which would still be 10 bands) got together, cut out the middle man, booked this venue by themselves and hosted a festival I'm sure they could still make a reasonable profit. I mean 100 bands in one day, firstly you're going to have a punk band after an indie band after a metal band starting at 11am and this c**t is getting 30,000?! It's just sick.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

matthayward wrote: »

30,000?! It's just sick.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056420446 :cool:

benestoria2

I used to play gigs every week with this guy about 6 years ago in the Legal Eagle and every week my band would sell 20 tickets+ and we thought it was great as any 16 year old would playing a gig every week until one week we realised we were just playing to our friends every saturday and he was making 200euro off us each week, so one week we decided that we would not give him the ticket money,and we never heard from him again...so moral of the story ,book a gig with him ,get the tickets on tick and dont pay the prick ,everyones a winner except poor old PF

the_barfly1

This guys been at this for years. I don't understand how people can be so gullible as to buy into this bull.
Think I might "Talk to Joe" on this one during the week considering that this is happening relatively soon.
Its simply sick that a guy can be allowed to fleece youngsters like this.

MarkmUsic

Why is Pappa Dolla so defensive? Nothing libellous has been posted.

From what I've read people are simply sharing their experiences with a particular personage. And once that's done in a fair manner without the use of foul language, I dont see what the problem is.

I've also had dealings with this particular promoter and I have to admit that I've never personally had any problem although I know people who have been shafted by him but thats their story to tell...

So Big Brother should take a little nap

AoifeCork

MarkmUsic wrote: »

Why is Pappa Dolla so defensive? Nothing libellous has been posted.

From what I've read people are simply sharing their experiences with a particular personage. And once that's done in a fair manner without the use of foul language, I dont see what the problem is.

I've also had dealings with this particular promoter and I have to admit that I've never personally had any problem although I know people who have been shafted by him but thats their story to tell...

So Big Brother should take a little nap

If "Big Brother" had taken a nap, the second post that had mentioned an actual name for this supposed crook could have sparked something the mods would have had to deal with on a bigger scale. That's why they're called MODERATORS :P

Sorry for sounding sarcastic but it's their job, is it not?

OP-this sounds absolutely horrendous. What a way to turn young people off getting into the music business. "It's only business, blah blah blah"... A well known promoter taking 200 quid a week off a group of 16 year olds is not business.

iMADEtheBBC

MarkmUsic wrote: »

Why is Pappa Dolla so defensive? Nothing libellous has been posted.

I've had her/him on ignore for a long time. Best solution for me - you might try it. Most of the moderators here don't really understand why they do what they do - they just do it because they're told to. Boards.ie is a business that calls itself a community. The people who run it are rightly concerned about another legal action similar to the one taken by a well known national promoter. So they simply jump over anything that even smells like it could be libellous - even if it's nothing of the sort.

The individual concerned in the OP is still very active and is now posting on facebook pages of artists and bands offering a gig in a Camden Street "venue". It wasn't until the name appeared in my email that I realised who it was.

They're still promoting what the OP posted. There's nothing illegal about it, it may be immoral but that's up to the individual to decide.

So, if anyone doesn't like what this promoter does go ahead and contact a venue, book it and work out a way with the bands to ensure you break even. That's where it gets difficult. A co-op with 2 other bands where you agree to pull enough of a crowd between you can work.

Another option is to find a non-pub venue, hire a PA and run the gig yourself. Pubs are the worst venues to play. That would remove the age issue and keeps your overheads right down. A used small PA system suitable for vocal + basic backline can be bought on adverts.ie for a couple hundred euro. Better than hiring and not much more than this promoter wants bands to pay for the 'privilege' of playing name venues in Dublin. Don't have a cover charge: sell CDs instead. Then each band gets precisely what they put into it.

Pay to play isn't new - it's been going on in this town for as long as I remember (and that's a long time )

Nervous Wreck

I used to play these gigs when I was but a teen. I actually had a lot of fun playing them, despite the poor quality etc. It's funny how playing at midday never seemed weird when I was 16... But sure, when you're 16, a gig is a gig and the glaringly obvious problems with the gigs (lack of quality-control, poorly organised, terrrrrrrrible venues etc) didn't seem so obvious. Would never do it these days. Pay to play in general but especially gigs that are run so poorly, imo.

Malice

MarkmUsic wrote: »

Why is Pappa Dolla so defensive? Nothing libellous has been posted.

From what I've read people are simply sharing their experiences with a particular personage. And once that's done in a fair manner without the use of foul language, I dont see what the problem is.

I've also had dealings with this particular promoter and I have to admit that I've never personally had any problem although I know people who have been shafted by him but thats their story to tell...

So Big Brother should take a little nap

As this is your first I'll be nice . Please read up on Irish law regarding slander and libel. When you've done that you'll understand why we have to take such a stance on Boards.ie.

iMADEtheBBC wrote:

I've had her/him on ignore for a long time
Best solution for me - you might try it. Most of the moderators here don't really understand why they do what they do - they just do it because they're told to.

I would highly recommend not putting anyone, especially not a moderator of a forum you frequent on ignore. Out of curiosity did you put him on ignore after this thread?

iMADEtheBBC wrote:

Boards.ie is a business that calls itself a community. The people who run it are rightly concerned about another legal action similar to the one taken by a well known national promoter. So they simply jump over anything that even smells like it could be libellous - even if it's nothing of the sort.

Whether this site is a business or not is beside the point.

MarkmUsic

Malice wrote: »

As this is your first I'll be nice . Please read up on Irish law regarding slander and libel. When you've done that you'll understand why we have to take such a stance on Boards.ie.

Cheers Malice, I understand your point. It seems that there were a couple of posts that werent evenly tempered and I assume it is these posts that needed to be moderated.

I misunderstood and assumed that there was some kind of unreasonable censorship going on. Although, it would be better if people could name questionable promoters.

raindog.promo

I assume he will be paying revenue a nice percent of the money being made from this. At least that helps the country a little in these money troubled times.

Someone should do a good deed helping out and get in touch with revenue and let them know to expect this cash just in case anyone forgets with all the organising that will be going into the gig.

We all have to pull together and help out in these difficult days.

iMADEtheBBC

Hey Malice I'll put anyone I like on ignore. That's my prerogative. I find putting moderators on ignore enhances the discussion for me.

And seeing as you asked nicely : no, that's not the reason.

The fact that boards.ie is a business is very relevant and not beside the point at all.

Have a nice day :-)

Malice

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

Hey Malice I'll put anyone I like on ignore. That's my prerogative. I find putting moderators on ignore enhances the discussion for me.

Well yes it's your choice but don't be surprised if it causes problems for you somewhere down the line. If a moderator posts an on-thread warning which you don't read and you then end up in trouble, a defence of "I didn't see the warning" isn't going to suffice.

iMADEtheBBC wrote:

The fact that boards.ie is a business is very relevant and not beside the point at all.

Okay then, why is it relevant?