lamping foxes

pintos80

lads, what are the laws of lamping foxes?
got hassle last year from the boys in blue, so want to know exactly what the ins and outs of the law are....its that time of year again...

thanks

garv123

pintos80 wrote: »

lads, what are the laws of lamping foxes?
got hassle last year from the boys in blue, so want to know exactly what the ins and outs of the law are....its that time of year again...

thanks

You need permission off the landowner to shoot on his land and cant wonder onto other land without permission.
You cant shoot from the road.
You cant fire towards the road or a house.
You can lamp from the road but the shot must be taken from within the field in a set distance from the road. Seatbelts must be worn

Common sense:
Know the area you are shooting
Be sure to have a back stop.
Be sure its a fox you are shooting and not a cow, horse, deer, sheep, badger, cat etc, dont just see eyes and pull the trigger.
Good idea to tell the land owner you'll be out that night lamping so he'll be aware you are there and not someone poaching.

4200fps

garv123 wrote: »

You need permission off the landowner to shoot on his land and cant wonder onto other land without permission.
You cant shoot from the road.
You cant fire towards the road or a house.
You can lamp from the road but the shot must be taken from within the field in a set distance from the road. Seatbelts must be worn

Common sense:
Know the area you are shooting
Be sure to have a back stop.
Be sure its a fox you are shooting and not a cow, horse, deer, sheep, badger, cat etc, dont just see eyes and pull the trigger.
Good idea to tell the land owner you'll be out that night lamping so he'll be aware you are there and not someone poaching.

Good information but the only thing when u go in the field to shoot the fox he will be gone b4 u cross the gate..Its a stupid law in my eyes but the law is the law

garv123

4200fps wrote: »

Good information but the only thing when u go in the field to shoot the fox he will be gone b4 u cross the gate..Its a stupid law in my eyes but the law is the law

True but you shoulnt be lazy in the first place and walk the land instead of driving around lamping.

rem 223

garv123 wrote: »

You can lamp from the road but the shot must be taken from within the field in a set distance from the road.

you can not lamp from any mpv and you must be 60feet from the center of the road and the nearest house

homerhop

what hassle did ya get?

clivej

rem 223 wrote: »

you can not lamp from any mpv and you must be 60feet from the center of the road and the nearest house

That only applies to taking the shot AFAIK not shining the lamp.:)

johngalway

Most has been said already, one other thing. Transport your firearm correctly. Have it in it's case/slip, away from passenger access if possible and have the bolt and ammo separate from the firearm.

If you've it sat on the back seat and get stopped you're asking for what you'll be getting

FISMA

pintos80 wrote: »

lads, what are the laws of lamping foxes?
got hassle last year from the boys in blue, so want to know exactly what the ins and outs of the law are....its that time of year again...

thanks

Aside from the law, proper etiquette should be practiced too.

(1) Don't shine the lamp in the window's of people's homes. You'd be surprised how many speeder lampers driving by cannot be bothered dropping or dimming the light past a house.

(2) Don't shoot close to a house. Imagine being at home and hearing a shot go off in the next field at night.

(3) Notify everyone that you'll be out. On our permissions, we know most everyone and collected phone numbers. A quick call when we're driving by goes a long way.

(4) Don't shoot anywhere near where there are children or signs like bikes in the yards, castles, ... Being a kid in the dark of night can be difficult enough without hearing gunshots.

Know the land and the people that live there. Respect them and their homes.

rem 223

clivej wrote: »

That only applies to taking the shot AFAIK not shining the lamp.:)

no that applys to the lamp as well,this law has being in for while.[section 44 wildlife[amendment]act 2000]

garv123

I wont quote cos its messed up enough as is, but rem 223 can you quote the act show where it says that? never seen that before.

clivej

garv123 wrote: »

You can lamp from the road but the shot must be taken from within the field in a set distance from the road.

rem 223 wrote: »

you can not lamp from any mpv and you must be 60feet from the center of the road and the nearest house

clivej wrote: »

That only applies to taking the shot AFAIK not shining the lamp.:)

From the guidelines under the heading
SHOOTING SMALL QUARRY SPECIES, INCLUDING GAME AND PEST SPECIES
It makes no reference to lamping @60ft only shooting


Fox
The shooting of foxes at night time with the aid of a lamp is not unlawful provided it can be done with the permission of the landowner and it does not occur within 60 feet of the public road. However it does pose a greater risk to the public and other farm animals. A condition which might be considered appropriate to the licensing of a centrefire high powered rifle for fox shooting could be that Gardai are notified of any shooting taking place after dark.



reference page 28 = Guidelines

Cass

rem 223 wrote: »

no that applys to the lamp as well,this law has being in for while.[section 44 wildlife[amendment]act 2000]

Perhaps you could clarify your reference as the section you quoted above refers to the amendment to section 36 of the princiapl act (1976), both of which refer to the use of mechanically propelled vehicles in the use of hunting. It does not mention lamps, pighting, etc.

Section 45 of the 2000 amendment act does, but makes no refernece to distance from a road, merely that the use of a lamp, dazzling device, etc may not be used to hunt WILD animals/fowl unless doing so for the purpose of tagging or research and under license.

pintos80

thanks lads, i knew all of that alright.

i was right so, a big problem is that members of the gardai dont know the law properly........you know yourselves, you cant really get into debate with these guys as they are always right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

johngalway

pintos80 wrote: »

thanks lads, i knew all of that alright.

i was right so, a big problem is that members of the gardai dont know the law properly........you know yourselves, you cant really get into debate with these guys as they are always right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it's just a case of being told to go home on a night out, it's often easier to take that course than getting into it with them. For the simple reason that if they decide to get bullheaded about it, things can snowball and often put you out a lot more than either going home.......or maybe just elsewhere! Taking in guns or going over your car with a fine tooth comb just looking for something to haul ya up on.

If it's licensing though, if yer right, stick to yer guns.

pintos80

johngalway wrote: »

If it's just a case of being told to go home on a night out, it's often easier to take that course than getting into it with them. For the simple reason that if they decide to get bullheaded about it, things can snowball and often put you out a lot more than either going home.......or maybe just elsewhere! Taking in guns or going over your car with a fine tooth comb just looking for something to haul ya up on.

If it's licensing though, if yer right, stick to yer guns.

i wont say what happened as its stupid, but your right about things snowballing.... we just said nothing and went on our way. but it was more our fault as we didnt know enough of the law.....live and learn!

4200fps

johngalway wrote: »

Most has been said already, one other thing. Transport your firearm correctly. Have it in it's case/slip, away from passenger access if possible and have the bolt and ammo separate from the firearm.

If you've it sat on the back seat and get stopped you're asking for what you'll be getting

ah ****e i always have mine in back seat wen im traveling with bolt out of it...so if im stopped and they seen it im in bother????the guards dey wud have to be awkward as if ur going to shoot sum1 after them giving the licence,it says on licence i can carry,have in my possesion a rifle u know what i mean like

johngalway

4200fps wrote: »

ah ****e i always have mine in back seat wen im traveling with bolt out of it...so if im stopped and they seen it im in bother????the guards dey wud have to be awkward as if ur going to shoot sum1 after them giving the licence,it says on licence i can carry,have in my possesion a rifle u know what i mean like

Depends on the Garda you meet. But, that said, you're not supposed to have it, shall we say, "available" while in transit. I think it's in the guidelines somewhere. Not going to quote chapter and verse but that's the gist of it.

It can say whatever it likes on the license, but you don't hold that license as a right, it can be taken off ya too.

I know people who have been stopped, mostly by the Traffic Corps, and given warnings over it, had the full car search, the lot.

Why attract the hassle?

garv123

johngalway wrote: »

Depends on the Garda you meet. But, that said, you're not supposed to have it, shall we say, "available" while in transit. I think it's in the guidelines somewhere. Not going to quote chapter and verse but that's the gist of it.

It can say whatever it likes on the license, but you don't hold that license as a right, it can be taken off ya too.

I know people who have been stopped, mostly by the Traffic Corps, and given warnings over it, had the full car search, the lot.

Why attract the hassle?

True john i remember reading that it should be stored where you cant have access to it but isn't that only guidelines and not law? If the super doesnt specify to have it stored in the boot out of the the licence it doesn have to be?

We drove from Kldare to Waterford with the 2 guns i bought on the back seat., after reading what you're saying about them causing hastle over it im glad we didnt meet any gardai even though we were covered to transport them.

johngalway

garv123 wrote: »

True john i remember reading that it should be stored where you cant have access to it but isn't that only guidelines and not law? If the super doesnt specify to have it stored in the boot out of the the licence it doesn have to be?

We drove from Kldare to Waterford with the 2 guns i bought on the back seat., after reading what you're saying about them causing hastle over it im glad we didnt meet any gardai even though we were covered to transport them.

Yeah it's in the guidelines, and not law, AFAIK. Depends on the Garda you meet and their attitude or what's been going on locally etc. I heard afterwards there had been complaints over shooting in one particular area, and other lads happened to get pulled by the TC in one incidence and spend 45 mins at the side of the road emptying the car completely and explaining in detail about a myriad of subjects. The others were regular checkpoints, which I've seen a LOT less of these past two years.

The point I was trying to make is save yerselves hassle where possible. We were stopped five nights out of six one week I dropped into the local Garda the next day and straight out said look if there's something ya wanna ask us will ye get on with it But I know him a long time.

landkeeper

you can fall foul of the law now when lamping from a vehicle
because of this part of the wildlife act
'TABLE

(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section, a person shall not hunt or disturb for the purpose of hunting—

(a) any wild animal by means of a mechanically-propelled vehicle, vessel or aircraft, whether it is being so propelled or is stationary,'

so lamping along a road 'looking' for a fox is a no no i'm now told

rem 223

Ezridax wrote: »

Perhaps you could clarify your reference as the section you quoted above refers to the amendment to section 36 of the princiapl act (1976), both of which refer to the use of mechanically propelled vehicles in the use of hunting. It does not mention lamps, pighting, etc.

Section 45 of the 2000 amendment act does, but makes no refernece to distance from a road, merely that the use of a lamp, dazzling device, etc may not be used to hunt WILD animals/fowl unless doing so for the purpose of tagging or research and under license.

LAMPING FOXES - THE LEGAL POSITION

Section 45 of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000 amends Section 38 of the 1976 Act which applied to the use of lamps, mirrors, dazzling equipment etc., for the purposes of hunting. Section 38 of the '76 Act was substituted by this completely new Section. The amendment states that it will be illegal for any person to hunt any protected wild animal or protected wild bird while using a lamp, light, torch, mirror or other artificial dazzling device. Also prohibited are any devices for illuminating, image intensifying or heat seeking, night sights, or any device which the Minister may declare as coming within this category.

It will be lawful to use such devices while ringing or marking or while hunting for educational or scientific purposes under licence issued by the Minister. The Minister may amend or revoke an order made under this Section. The most important thing for hunting people to know about this Section is that the ban on the use of lamps and the other equipment mentioned, applies only to protected wild birds and protected wild animals. Therefore, contrary to what some people would assert, and have asserted in the past, even people in regulatory positions, it is not illegal to hunt by lamping foxes or rabbits, neither of which are protected and no licence is necessary. This is a question which comes up again and again. However, please note that while it is not illegal to lamp a fox or rabbit from a public road for the purposes of shooting, it most definitely is illegal to shoot from a road. In addition, it should be borne in mind that the use of a mechanically propelled vehicle may not be used for the purposes of hunting any wild animal, whether the vehicle is stationary or moving. Therefore a hunter must not be in any vehicle while lamping. (Section 44 Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000).

This has always been the case and this distinction needs to be emphasised here. The shot should be taken from inside the field and then at a distance of not less than 60 feet (measured in meters now) from the road and shooting away from the direction of the road. Legally, lamping and shooting are two distinctly different acts.

Cass

Thats the notice on the NARGC website? So the solution would be to pull up, step out then you are no longer in a vehicle.

Also this debate of the 60 feet (now meters rule);

The shot should be taken from inside the field and then at a distance of not less than 60 feet (measured in meters now) from the road and shooting away from the direction of the road

Has anyone asked the NARGC where they have gotten this from? I still have been unable to find any legislation to support this.

landkeeper

223
with the wording of the amendment i posted it's illegal to hunt or disturb for the purpose of hunting from a motor vehicle whether stationary or moving
so lamping from a car looking for a fox is illegal if you met the wrong lad

homerhop

Ezridax wrote: »

Thats the notice on the NARGC website? So the solution would be to pull up, step out then you are no longer in a vehicle.
Also this debate of the 60 feet (now meters rule);
Has anyone asked the NARGC where they have gotten this from? I still have been unable to find any legislation to support this.

The only thing that I can find that mentions a distance from a road comes from Laws passed in 1842.

Dangerous or annoying activities

5.13

Section 14(15) of the Dublin Police Act 1842 makes it an offence to do any of the following acts in any thoroughfare or public place: to wantonly discharge any firearm or throw or discharge any stone or other missile, to the damage or danger of any person, or make any bonfire, or throw or set fire to any fireworks. Section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847, section 10(2) and (8) of the Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act 1851 and section 72 of the Towns Improvement (Ireland) Act 1854 contain similar provision. Section 61 of the Dangerous Substances Act 197218 also makes it an offence to throw or cast any fireworks in or onto, or ignite any fireworks in, any highway, street, thoroughfare or public place. It is suggested that the provisions other than the latter might be replaced by a new provision making it an offence without lawful authority or excuse to light any fire or discharge any stone or other missile on, or within 20 metres of the centre of any public road19 so that a road-user is injured, interrupted or endangerd.20 The maximum penalty for the offence should be a fine of £500.

Cass

I found the same and something similar a while ago when looking myself, however thats 170 years ago and i can find nothing that actually states the distance is definitive measurements.

bazza888

whats the actual legal definition for a road theres lot of farm land that have rough tracks and laneways on them that would never be used at night or sometimes even during the day

Cass

National, regional roads fall under the remit of the minister for transport, and other roads fall under the dept. of Environment, Heritage, and local governemnt.

Roads Act 1993, Section 10.

homerhop

Ezridax wrote: »

I found the same and something similar a while ago when looking myself, however thats 170 years ago and i can find nothing that actually states the distance is definitive measurements.

Thats cos as far as i can remember there is actually nothing there.

cavan shooter

Was this not done to death previously,

You cannot hunt from a mechanically propelled vehicle and hunt includes searching for. Forget the road aspect of it. Sitting in a car shining a lamp is against the legislation i.e the wild life act.

Cass

homerhop wrote: »

Thats cos as far as i can remember there is actually nothing there.

Precisely. Nothing changed or added or amended in 170 years.

cavan shooter wrote: »

Was this not done to death previously,

Yes, and with so many other topics will be again.