Catholic Vs. Cultural Catholic

Keaton · 14-10-2011 7:04pm #1

I find it hard being a believing Catholic in a household of luewarm, or cultural Catholics. OK, so that might sound a little harsh. Here's what I mean. I am a Catholic with a living faith. I accept Jesus as my 'personal Lord and saviour'.

Whilst some members of my family do go to Mass, it seems to me they don't have that dynamic, living relationship with Jesus.

It is so hard because I cannot share my faith with them. I can't share my struggles and the various aspects of trying to live the faith, nor all the good things.

I have few Catholic friends and none my own age really. Well, there is one in my town, but she is busy with work and I rarely see her.

I feel a bit like an alien in my own home. I have spoken to Evangelical Christians, and I have a lot more in common with them in many ways.

PatricaMcKay2 · 14-10-2011 10:57pm

You dont share your faith, God the Holy Spirit shares faith, you act as long suffering and as Christ like as you can and pray for them. Stop this oh its so sad business as well, things could be a LOT worse, thank God that they are not!

Roger Hassenforder · 14-10-2011 11:09pm

or you could talk to your local priest/resource, he should be best equiped to point you in a particular direction/resource, rather than inviting unhelpful responses to your post.

antiskeptic · 14-10-2011 11:09pm

Keaton wrote: »

I find it hard being a believing Catholic in a household of luewarm, or cultural Catholics. OK, so that might sound a little harsh. Here's what I mean. I am a Catholic with a living faith. I accept Jesus as my 'personal Lord and saviour'.

Whilst some members of my family do go to Mass, it seems to me they don't have that dynamic, living relationship with Jesus.

It is so hard because I cannot share my faith with them. I can't share my struggles and the various aspects of trying to live the faith, nor all the good things.

I have few Catholic friends and none my own age really. Well, there is one in my town, but she is busy with work and I rarely see her.

I feel a bit like an alien in my own home. I have spoken to Evangelical Christians, and I have infinitely more in common with them than my own family members. It's so sad.

It's not unexpected - if sad.

If it is true that there are but two types of people in the world: lost and found. And if the found are (as the bible puts it) alive to God whereas the lost are blind and dead to God, then it would come as no surprise that a canyon of sorts would exist between the lost and the found.

The dead to God (which would include cultural Christians of all hues) simply have no inkling into what (for an actual Christian) constitutes the very fabric onto which a life is painted - "God exists and I am in relationship with Him". The view of the cultural Christian is diametrically opposite that of a Christian

But you have a family. The people of God. Brothers and sisters. Perhaps the thing to do is develop relationships in that direction (whatever their denomination).

Keaton · 14-10-2011 11:19pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

or you could talk to your local priest/resource, he should be best equiped to point you in a particular direction/resource, rather than inviting unhelpful responses to your post.

I didn't mean to invite unhelpful replies!!!

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

You dont share your faith, God the Holy Spirit shares faith, you act as long suffering and as Christ like as you can and pray for them. Stop this oh its so sad business as well, things could be a LOT worse, thank God that they are not!

That's true, but I suppose what I was getting at, or should have got at, was the fact that I find it hard to remain aflame when those closest to me don't appear to share my convictions. Without support, it is easy for one's faith to grow cold very quickly.

antiskeptic wrote: »

It's not unexpected - if sad.

If it is true that there are but two types of people in the world: lost and found. And if the found are (as the bible puts it) alive to God whereas the lost are blind and dead to God, then it would come as no surprise that a canyon of sorts would exist between the lost and the found.

The dead to God (which would include cultural Christians of all hues) simply have no inkling into what (for an actual Christian) constitutes the very fabric onto which a life is painted - "God exists and I am in relationship with Him". The view of the cultural Christian is diametrically opposite that of a Christian

But you have a family. The people of God. Brothers and sisters. Perhaps the thing to do is develop relationships in that direction (whatever their denomination).

Yeah maybe the Evangelicals. I often think we have a lot in common.

Onesimus · 14-10-2011 11:32pm

Keaton wrote: »

I find it hard being a believing Catholic in a household of luewarm, or cultural Catholics. OK, so that might sound a little harsh. Here's what I mean. I am a Catholic with a living faith. I accept Jesus as my 'personal Lord and saviour'.

Whilst some members of my family do go to Mass, it seems to me they don't have that dynamic, living relationship with Jesus.

It is so hard because I cannot share my faith with them. I can't share my struggles and the various aspects of trying to live the faith, nor all the good things.

I have few Catholic friends and none my own age really. Well, there is one in my town, but she is busy with work and I rarely see her.

I feel a bit like an alien in my own home. I have spoken to Evangelical Christians, and I have infinitely more in common with them than my own family members. It's so sad.

Keaton, sounds like you are experiencing the beginner stage of spirituality. It is an unseen pride ( known as spiritual pride ) in which the victim sees himself as better than those in the household or society around him and that he is holier than they. Where as true humility looks upon everyone else as better and holy than he is, and that he is the most unholy and imperfect person in the world and not even worthy of their presence.

I suggest you purchase ''Dark night of the soul'' by St.John of the Cross the mystic who goes into great detail about the road to perfection and those who fall into these traps such as yourself. I have fallen into them also.

focus on taking the plank out of your own eye Keaton.

I hope the above helps you.

Onesimus

JimiTime · 14-10-2011 11:53pm

PatricaMcKay2 wrote: »

You dont share your faith, God the Holy Spirit shares faith, you act as long suffering and as Christ like as you can and pray for them. Stop this oh its so sad business as well, things could be a LOT worse, thank God that they are not!

Onesimus wrote: »

Keaton, sounds like you are experiencing the beginner stage of spirituality. It is an unseen pride ( known as spiritual pride ) in which the victim sees himself as better than those in the household or society around him and that he is holier than they. Where as true humility looks upon everyone else as better and holy than he is, and that he is the most unholy and imperfect person in the world and not even worthy of their presence.

I suggest you purchase ''Dark night of the soul'' by St.John of the Cross the mystic who goes into great detail about the road to perfection and those who fall into these traps such as yourself. I have fallen into them also.

focus on taking the plank out of your own eye Keaton.

I hope the above helps you.

Onesimus

I have to wade in here. Where do you guys get off with making such comments??!!

He hasn't been 'woe is me', nor does his post 'lack humility'. He did not say he was 'holier than' or anything like it. He has become alive in his faith, and in doing so see's the cultural catholic (Or whatever branch of cultural christian) for what it is, a shallow 'faith' surrounded by weeds. He is longing for fellowship with Christians, and has realised that a faith thats alive does not simply consist of ritual or mass going, and he has a longing to live it. Heck, I know regular mass goers that have no clue about the bible, and would be disgusted if you brought up the topic of religion.

Keaton, ask God for guidance. Maybe find a small study group etc. I can tell you now, from me, a non-denominational Christian, that you NEED fellowship. My faith regularly falls asleep. Fellowship can build you up, and strengthen you in times of weakness etc. As for your family, you can only be a beacon, the light comes from Christ. Living like Christ, is much more powerful than talking like him. Let Him guide you, and let Christs light shine through you. Maybe that life changing faith will catch on within the household then.

lmaopml · 15-10-2011 12:10am

JimiTime wrote: »

I have to wade in here. Where do you guys get off with making such comments??!!

He hasn't been 'woe is me', nor does his post 'lack humility'. He did not say he was 'holier than' or anything like it. He has become alive in his faith, and in doing so see's the cultural catholic for what it is, a shallow 'faith' surrounded by weeds. He is longing for fellowship with Christians, and has realised that a faith thats alive does not simply consist of ritual or mass going, and he has a longing to live it. Heck, I know regular mass goers that have no clue about the bible, and would be disgusted if you brought up the topic of religion.

Keaton, ask God for guidance. Maybe find a small study group etc. I can tell you now, from me, a non-denominational Christian, that you NEED fellowship. My faith regularly falls asleep. Fellowship can build you up, and strengthen you in times of weakness etc. As for your family, you can only be a beacon, the light comes from Christ. Living like Christ, is much more powerful than talking like him. Let Him guide you, and let Christs light shine through you. Maybe that life changing faith will catch on within the household then.

I have to wade in here. The guy has family who he seems to not relate to, very sad, but not unheard of that how one 'relates' to God is seen as wrong, very common in fact - perhaps they ARE ungodly Christians, unbiblical etc. but perhaps they are NOT and he is just 'young' and impressionable...

He will find his way no doubt, but it seems to me that being honest with those among him might help...even 'confirm' his convictions, one way or the other, or maybe even lose him, which happens so many times

...I'm quite sure that assuming the strength of others belief is an absurdity if a sin. That's the premise of my point. I think this poster needs to take a good long look at exactly what the faith of his peers entails, and be willing to cast them off, and without 'dialogue' is not good advise. They are his parents and siblings etc. he should 'talk' first and foremost to them, and then follow his heart, but not be lead by evocative preaching, no matter how 'lovely' or indeed talented the preacher..

Onesimus · 15-10-2011 12:16am

JimiTime wrote: »

I have to wade in here. Where do you guys get off with making such comments??!!

He hasn't been 'woe is me', nor does his post 'lack humility'. He did not say he was 'holier than' or anything like it. He has become alive in his faith, and in doing so see's the cultural catholic (Or whatever branch of cultural christian) for what it is, a shallow 'faith' surrounded by weeds. He is longing for fellowship with Christians, and has realised that a faith thats alive does not simply consist of ritual or mass going, and he has a longing to live it. Heck, I know regular mass goers that have no clue about the bible, and would be disgusted if you brought up the topic of religion.

Keaton, ask God for guidance. Maybe find a small study group etc. I can tell you now, from me, a non-denominational Christian, that you NEED fellowship. My faith regularly falls asleep. Fellowship can build you up, and strengthen you in times of weakness etc. As for your family, you can only be a beacon, the light comes from Christ. Living like Christ, is much more powerful than talking like him. Let Him guide you, and let Christs light shine through you. Maybe that life changing faith will catch on within the household then.

I find it hard being a believing Catholic in a household of luewarm, or cultural Catholics.

Jimitime this statement of Keatons shouts all the alarm bells of a young man who no doubt wants to follow Christ but is blind to the devils tricks of turning him against his family and is suffering from whats known as spiritual delusion. A man who wears Christ can withstand any torment thrown at him. Priests daily have to bob around people whose behaviour is nasty towards him but he doesnt call them lukewarm or cultural or less Catholic than he is. ( a true priest that is. ).

we must build our houses on rock keaton not on sand. The man who builds his house on a rock can withstand anything thrown at him, just as Christ did. Did Christ say, ''all these people are lukewarm Catholics I'm not gonna bother hangin out with them anymore''? No, of course we can comment on others behaviour and system of belief as wrong. And seeing as we are weak in our human nature, hanging around someone whose bad influence is tough to withstand it might be a good idea for you to pray for the grace to withstand it.

Look inside your heart and look at the lukewarm Catholics as you call them as Christs children whom he loves very much, and as someone who can bring you closer to him. Every challenge is an oppertunity to grow spiritually know what I mean?

Buy that book and the spiritual sayings of the fathers, and buy Imitations of Christ too. You sound like you are ( like the rest of us ) in need of spiritual direction. In times so difficult where so many priests have abandoned the true faith this can be hard, so we rely on the great masters of spirituality such as John of the Cross, Ignatius of Loyola and the Desert fathers.

The enemy is clever Keaton, if he cant get you physically he'll get you mentally. There is nowhere in this world you can hide from ''people'' where he will not find you, tempt you and draw you from Christ.

Saints like St.Anthony the great fled to the desert. Temptations of the eyes were gone because they had no beautiful women to look at or food or alcohol or people to draw them away from the faith so the enemy attacked them mentally and created visions and apparitions to distract them from prayer not to mention more hidden mental tortures such as memories and dreams.

So dont be thinking that fleeing the physical world such as people and materialistic things is going to make you a better Catholic it wont. I've seen people go on pilgrimages and be full of the spirit when they are there and then come back and lose it. Thats because they are not grounded yet, Happiness is a state of being not an emotion or feeling of having people around you. It's not people who lift you it's Christ.

I hope this helps.

Onesimus

p.s remember without spiritual direction you become at risk of entering spirtual delusion, find it, seek it and be at peace.

JimiTime · 15-10-2011 12:28am

lmaopml wrote: »

I have to wade in here. The guy has family who he seems to not relate to, very sad, but not unheard of that how one 'relates' to God is seen as wrong, very common in fact - perhaps they ARE ungodly Christians, unbiblical etc. but perhaps they are NOT and he is just 'young' and impressionable...

He will find his way no doubt, but it seems to me that being honest with those among him might help...even 'confirm' his convictions, one way or the other, or maybe even lose him, which happens so many times

...I'm quite sure that assuming the strength of others belief is an absurdity if a sin. That's the premise of my point. I think this poster needs to take a good long look at exactly what the faith of his peers entails, and be willing to cast them off, and without 'dialogue' is not good advise. They are his parents and siblings etc. he should 'talk' first and foremost to them, and then follow his heart, but not be lead by evocative preaching, no matter how 'lovely' or indeed talented the preacher..

He says he's a catholic, so where does that come into into it? He's 'relating' to evangelicals more is what he said. Thats a simple thing to identify. If someone identifies as evangelical, it usually means that their faith is to the fore in their life. Whereas in this country, identifying as a 'catholic' can mean very little. I have 'catholic' friends, who hate any talk of religion etc. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
Also, it really doesn't seem like he's looking to rid himself of his family, but rather feels that he has become alive in faith, and isn't simply going through some kind of ritualistic motion like many do. Of course self-righteousness, and religious pride are snares which we must avoid, but I certainly could not see such things in his OP.

Keaton · 15-10-2011 12:54am

Onesimus wrote: »

Keaton, sounds like you are experiencing the beginner stage of spirituality. It is an unseen pride ( known as spiritual pride ) in which the victim sees himself as better than those in the household or society around him and that he is holier than they. Where as true humility looks upon everyone else as better and holy than he is, and that he is the most unholy and imperfect person in the world and not even worthy of their presence.

Oh I've been told that. But it is far from the truth. I'm not better, if anything, I am worse, because I have been given (or perhaps received) more.

I don't wish to get into specifics, but as a sole example, my own sibling mocked, to my face, core Catholic beliefs.

It is not spiritual blindness or pride to see something for what it is. If someone mocks the faith, can you say that they are a good Christian?

All I wanted was some fellowship, but it is sad to say that won't be finding it in my own family.

As regards Jesus not hanging out with folks and me not abandoning my family, I don't want to do that. Yet didn't God say ''Come out from among them!'' I think that was in Revelation.

I dunno. It is easy to be accused of being holier-than-thou, but I have never claimed that. If I was asked, I would say, ''I am weak! Let us support one another in faith!'' The faith is not meant to be lived in isolation, and people need fellowship. Right now, I feel like I am basically on my own. We Christians are supposed to help each other, to raise each other up, to edify. We do all that by the grace of God.

gimmebroadband · 15-10-2011 10:04am

I have family (hubby, son) that are Catholic in name only. I am the only one that goes to Mass, say the Rosary etc. I used to love discussing my faith with my dad and when he died last year, I have no-one to share it with, I'm crying now

( I remember discussing it with my priest about my family's apathy towards our faith, and he suggested that I don't badger them, but carry on living the faith and not criticise, by our prayers and deeds, and behaviour, will we help those towards God.

alex73 · 15-10-2011 12:08pm

gimmebroadband wrote: »

I have family (hubby, son) that are Catholic in name only. I am the only one that goes to Mass, say the Rosary etc. I used to love discussing my faith with my dad and when he died last year, I have no-one to share it with, I'm crying now ( I remember discussing it with my priest about my family's apathy towards our faith, and he suggested that I don't badger them, but carry on living the faith and not criticise, by our prayers and deeds, and behaviour, will we help those towards God.

Thats is sad. Faith is one thing my wife and I agree on 100%. Our house is covered in Christian art, you can't but notice we are Catholic. My parents are believers but my brothers are more Cultural.

Faith can't be forced on anyone. its a Gift we accept with love. Today's society drowns us in noise (literally). Why not bring your hubby and son to medjugorje?

gimmebroadband · 15-10-2011 12:18pm

alex73 wrote: »

Thats is sad. Faith is one thing my wife and I agree on 100%. Our house is covered in Christian art, you can't but notice we are Catholic. My parents are believers but my brothers are more Cultural.

Faith can't be forced on anyone. its a Gift we accept with love. Today's society drowns us in noise (literally). Why not bring your hubby and son to medjugorje?

I brought my son to Medjorje few years ago when he was younger, he was innocent then. All my married life (almost 30 years) my husband was never a practicing Catholic. Sure he'd go to church for funerals etc. but that's about it. He influences our son more that I do. Any discussion on religion turns into rows, and I end up being called a nutjob!

Onesimus · 15-10-2011 12:50pm

Keaton wrote: »

Oh I've been told that. But it is far from the truth. I'm not better, if anything, I am worse, because I have been given (or perhaps received) more.

I don't wish to get into specifics, but as a sole example, my own sibling mocked, to my face, core Catholic beliefs.

It is not spiritual blindness or pride to see something for what it is. If someone mocks the faith, can you say that they are a good Christian?

All I wanted was some fellowship, but it is sad to say that won't be finding it in my own family.

As regards Jesus not hanging out with folks and me not abandoning my family, I don't want to do that. Yet didn't God say ''Come out from among them!'' I think that was in Revelation.

I dunno. It is easy to be accused of being holier-than-thou, but I have never claimed that. If I was asked, I would say, ''I am weak! Let us support one another in faith!'' The faith is not meant to be lived in isolation, and people need fellowship. Right now, I feel like I am basically on my own. We Christians are supposed to help each other, to raise each other up, to edify. We do all that by the grace of God.

I'm not going to repeat myself. Ok Keaton, what you do is ultimately your responsability. Best wishes and God bless.

Onesimus

alex73 · 15-10-2011 1:02pm

gimmebroadband wrote: »

I brought my son to Medjorje few years ago when he was younger, he was innocent then. All my married life (almost 30 years) my husband was never a practicing Catholic. Sure he'd go to church for funerals etc. but that's about it. He influences our son more that I do. Any discussion on religion turns into rows, and I end up being called a nutjob!

You never know when and where your example of faith will sow the seed in the souls of people you touch... People who have called my a nutjob(or similar insults) have years later praised me. Have faith.

I have an aunt who is ultra catholic and her cousins are not and they have similar arguments on Faith, when my cousin started dating a divorced woman she would not even visit her son at his house ( but he does visit her).

As a teenager I was not very religous.. But over years I have grown to where i am today.

gimmebroadband · 15-10-2011 1:36pm

alex73 wrote: »

You never know when and where your example of faith will sow the seed in the souls of people you touch... People who have called my a nutjob(or similar insults) have years later praised me. Have faith.

I have an aunt who is ultra catholic and her cousins are not and they have similar arguments on Faith, when my cousin started dating a divorced woman she would not even visit her son at his house ( but he does visit her).

As a teenager I was not very religous.. But over years I have grown to where i am today.

Thanks Alex for your comments, they are a source of comfort for me. I pray everyday for their converson, and some - there is always hope, and in God's good time!

JimiTime · 15-10-2011 5:45pm

gimmebroadband wrote: »

I have family (hubby, son) that are Catholic in name only. I am the only one that goes to Mass, say the Rosary etc. I used to love discussing my faith with my dad and when he died last year, I have no-one to share it with, I'm crying now ( I remember discussing it with my priest about my family's apathy towards our faith, and he suggested that I don't badger them, but carry on living the faith and not criticise, by our prayers and deeds, and behaviour, will we help those towards God.

Delighted you were offered this advice. Strainght from the pen of Peter:)

1 Peter 3

1 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

wolfsbane · 15-10-2011 6:11pm

JimiTime wrote: »

I have to wade in here. Where do you guys get off with making such comments??!!

He hasn't been 'woe is me', nor does his post 'lack humility'. He did not say he was 'holier than' or anything like it. He has become alive in his faith, and in doing so see's the cultural catholic (Or whatever branch of cultural christian) for what it is, a shallow 'faith' surrounded by weeds. He is longing for fellowship with Christians, and has realised that a faith thats alive does not simply consist of ritual or mass going, and he has a longing to live it. Heck, I know regular mass goers that have no clue about the bible, and would be disgusted if you brought up the topic of religion.

Keaton, ask God for guidance. Maybe find a small study group etc. I can tell you now, from me, a non-denominational Christian, that you NEED fellowship. My faith regularly falls asleep. Fellowship can build you up, and strengthen you in times of weakness etc. As for your family, you can only be a beacon, the light comes from Christ. Living like Christ, is much more powerful than talking like him. Let Him guide you, and let Christs light shine through you. Maybe that life changing faith will catch on within the household then.

Well said, Jimi.

It is not 'holier than thou' to recognise nominal Christians as such. Professors who don't possess. Folk who would get ratty or at least look at you with puzzlement and concern if you spoke about Christ as your Lord and Friend. I know some Protestants who fit the bill - not many, as most Protestants don't even make a profession faith. But the religious sort I'm speaking of - they have enough religion to be regarded as religious, but nothing real.

Seek out those who are both serious about knowing God and show signs that they actually do.

***************************************************************
John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

alex73 · 15-10-2011 8:13pm

JimiTime wrote: »

Delighted you were offered this advice. Strainght from the pen of Peter:)

1 Peter 3

1 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

? Where do you get off saying the Catholic Advice she was given was not right? Pen of peter.... What is she supposed to do? You can bring a horse to water.....

lilteach · 16-10-2011 12:20am

I came across this group a few weeks ago, they are a christian choir from Kerry and they are offering a new way for catholic young people to express their faith........
www.teenspirit.ie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rib9y4ddl9s&feature=related

JimiTime · 16-10-2011 1:43am

alex73 wrote: »

? Where do you get off saying the Catholic Advice she was given was not right? Pen of peter.... What is she supposed to do? You can bring a horse to water.....

Excuse me? I didn't say it was not right. i said I was delighted she was offered the advice she was given, and that it was straight from the pen of Peter. How the hell do you extrapolate that i was criticising the advice in that post? I couldn't have been clearer

alex73 · 16-10-2011 8:56am

JimiTime wrote: »

Excuse me? I didn't say it was not right. i said I was delighted she was offered the advice she was given, and that it was straight from the pen of Peter. How the hell do you extrapolate that i was criticising the advice in that post? I couldn't have been clearer

Ok Apologies. I should have read it better.

Catholic Vs. Cultural Catholic

Comments