4-Day Split - Upper/Lower or Bodypart?

marathonic

Which of the following two routines look better - or can you suggest an alternative?

I'm on Starting Strength at the moment and intend to stick with it until I'm stalling on all lifts. After that, probably in the new year, I'd like to move to a 4-day split.


ROUTINE A

Monday - Upper 1
Bench Press
Bent-Over Rows
Dips
Chin Ups

Tuesday - Lower 1
Squat
Cleans
SLDL
Lunges

Thursday - Upper 2
Overhead Press
T-Bar Rows (or any Row variation really)
Incline Bench (DBs perhaps?)
Pulldowns

Friday - Lower 2
Deadlift
Front Squat
Leg Press
Hyperextensions


ROUTINE B

Shoulders/Traps
Military press
Shrugs
Upright row
Lateral raises

Legs/Abs
Squats
Seated raise
Straight Leg Deadlifts
Kneeling cable crunch
Standing side crunch

Chest/Triceps
Bench press
Incline dumbell press
Skull crushers
Parallel bar dips

Back/Biceps
Deadlifts
Bent over rows
Barbell curls
Pull ups

marathonic

The equipment I have at home is as follows:

• Power Cage
• Lat-Pulldown/Low Pulley
• F/I/D Bench
• 235kg Olympic Weightset
• 80kg standard plates
• Standard Ez-Curl bar
• Standard Triceps Bar
• Standard Dumbbell handles
• Gym Rings

I don't see me needing anything else unless the routine requires heavy dumbbell excercises (or something exotic )

Dathai

Personally, I wouldn't deadlift and legpress on the same day. I'd probably switch the SLDL to the deadlift day and move the legpress to the squatting day.

Just speaking from experience, my legs were demolished and I wasn't able to complete the reps.

Hanley

Routine A - cleans before squats on Tuesday, drop the leg press on Friday and you’ve a pretty good routine there.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Routine A - cleans before squats on Tuesday, drop the leg press on Friday and you’ve a pretty good routine there.

+1 to this.

I'd also think about doing a max effort upper/lower day and a RE day for each a la westside.

Vomit

Drop the cleans altogether. They are meant for the sport of power lifting and rely more on momentum. You're more likely to injure yourself than get a proper workout.

Routine A looks fine for a low intensity beginner's workout, but after about 6 months you can do Routine B, with high intensity. Doing A with high intensity would not allow your muscles enough time to recover and rebuild.

dave80

Vomit wrote: »

Drop the cleans altogether. They are meant for the sport of power lifting and rely more on momentum.

really???



routine A looks fine to me, maybe take out the leg press as other have said

Brian?

Vomit wrote: »

Drop the cleans altogether. They are meant for the sport of power lifting and rely more on momentum. You're more likely to injure yourself than get a proper workout.

.

Nonsense for many reasons. I don't even know where to begin

Vomit

briankeating wrote: »

Nonsense for many reasons. I don't even know where to begin

Actually thinking about it now, it's Olympic Weightlifting, not powerlifting.

d'Oracle

marathonic wrote: »

The equipment I have at home is as follows:

• Power Cage
• Lat-Pulldown/Low Pulley
• F/I/D Bench
• 235kg Olympic Weightset
• 80kg standard plates
• Standard Ez-Curl bar
• Standard Triceps Bar
• Standard Dumbbell handles
• Gym Rings

I don't see me needing anything else unless the routine requires heavy dumbbell excercises (or something exotic )

Erm....How had you planned on doing Leg press anyhow?

Mellor

Vomit wrote: »

Actually thinking about it now, it's Olympic Weightlifting, not powerlifting.

You had to think about it?
It's still nonsense. Olympic style lifting is a benefit to more than just Oly lifters.

marathonic

d'Oracle wrote: »

Erm....How had you planned on doing Leg press anyhow?

lol... I had considered that. My intention was to use the gym with a few friends once a week PAYG (I may be doing this regardless of the routine chosen as I get Friday's off work)... good point though for anyone else considering the routines

Scuba Ste

I'd agree on dropping (power) cleans.

What are your goals? Strength, size, sports performance, something else? Unless it's the third I don't see the need them and even then I wouldn't unless you can get some decent coaching.

I really don't think the benefit of doing them is worth cost and I think most people vastly overestimate the apparent benefits of doing the o-lifts. If your strong and have good technique, and I mean good coached technique then ok they can be useful. But, I'd question the benefit over things like speed squats and deads for almost all but certain athletes. Even speed squats and deads need a certain level of technical competence.

Having seen the level of competence of most people doing the o-lifts, I'd be fairly certain you will be among the huge number who basically do a fast deadlift/upright row combo. Now I'm not trying to be a form nazi or oly purist but you'll never get the benefits of the o-lifts doing this and I don't see any reason to do a useless movement just because it's the "in" thing at the moment. If you want to do it for the craic, fair enough but if your doing it because you think it's contributing to your overall routine or goals I wouldn't. Like I said if it's not for a specific sport I wouldn't do it, I don't think there's a any contribution to size and a negligible contribution to strength compared to other methods.

And that's coming form someone who does more snatching and cleaning than almost anyone else posting here.

Also in your routine, I think A is the better and I'd start one your upper days with a pulling movement, but then I'm a little paranoid about shoulders.

Brian?

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I'd agree on dropping (power) cleans.

What are your goals? Strength, size, sports performance, something else? Unless it's the third I don't see the need them and even then I wouldn't unless you can get some decent coaching.

I really don't think the benefit of doing them is worth cost and I think most people vastly overestimate the apparent benefits of doing the o-lifts. If your strong and have good technique, and I mean good coached technique then ok they can be useful. But, I'd question the benefit over things like speed squats and deads for almost all but certain athletes. Even speed squats and deads need a certain level of technical competence.

Having seen the level of competence of most people doing the o-lifts, I'd be fairly certain you will be among the huge number who basically do a fast deadlift/upright row combo. Now I'm not trying to be a form nazi or oly purist but you'll never get the benefits of the o-lifts doing this and I don't see any reason to do a useless movement just because it's the "in" thing at the moment. If you want to do it for the craic, fair enough but if your doing it because you think it's contributing to your overall routine or goals I wouldn't. Like I said if it's not for a specific sport I wouldn't do it, I don't think there's a any contribution to size and a negligible contribution to strength compared to other methods.

And that's coming form someone who does more snatching and cleaning than almost anyone else posting here.

Also in your routine, I think A is the better and I'd start one your upper days with a pulling movement, but then I'm a little paranoid about shoulders.

Well thought out reasons not to do power cleans, far points.

However, theres a good chance the OP is doing them already as they are a part of starting strength, one of the versions of it anyway.

Everyone should do power cleans, they make you look cool as fùck.

marathonic

The last two posts are very helpful.

Power Cleans are part of the Starting Strength program but I swapped them out for Pendlay Rows after spraining my wrist doing them.

My goals at the moment are purely strength but I'd like to take up some sport next year - maybe boxing or kickboxing?

Obviously, having injured myself doing the Power Cleans, I'll definately be taking some form of coaching before doing them next as, although they may have benefits, they're not worth the risk of me having to stop the rest of the lifts for 1-2 weeks again.

DaveDaRave

Where's the curls man ?

Hanley

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I'd agree on dropping (power) cleans.

What are your goals? Strength, size, sports performance, something else? Unless it's the third I don't see the need them and even then I wouldn't unless you can get some decent coaching.

I really don't think the benefit of doing them is worth cost and I think most people vastly overestimate the apparent benefits of doing the o-lifts. If your strong and have good technique, and I mean good coached technique then ok they can be useful. But, I'd question the benefit over things like speed squats and deads for almost all but certain athletes. Even speed squats and deads need a certain level of technical competence.

Having seen the level of competence of most people doing the o-lifts, I'd be fairly certain you will be among the huge number who basically do a fast deadlift/upright row combo. Now I'm not trying to be a form nazi or oly purist but you'll never get the benefits of the o-lifts doing this and I don't see any reason to do a useless movement just because it's the "in" thing at the moment. If you want to do it for the craic, fair enough but if your doing it because you think it's contributing to your overall routine or goals I wouldn't. Like I said if it's not for a specific sport I wouldn't do it, I don't think there's a any contribution to size and a negligible contribution to strength compared to other methods.

And that's coming form someone who does more snatching and cleaning than almost anyone else posting here.

Also in your routine, I think A is the better and I'd start one your upper days with a pulling movement, but then I'm a little paranoid about shoulders.

Very good post!

Satanta

marathonic wrote: »

Obviously, having injured myself doing the Power Cleans, I'll definately be taking some form of coaching before doing them next

I can give you the contact details of a guy in Derry that coaches these lifts.

Mellor

Good reasoning is the difference that one posts can be good and another tripe, even if they both suggest the same thing.

marathonic

Satanta wrote: »

I can give you the contact details of a guy in Derry that coaches these lifts.

That'd be very helpful Satanta. I'll not be doing them until the new year but it'd be handy to have the contact details anyway.