Irish players' club affiliations

pickarooney

I was just wondering why, when they list the players in an Irish squad they always put a club as well as a province in brackets after their names, e.g. Ronan O'Gara (Cork Con., Munster). Are the players registered or otherwise affiliated to these clubs even if they don't actually play for them?

GerM

pickarooney wrote: »

I was just wondering why, when they list the players in an Irish squad they always put a club as well as a province in brackets after their names, e.g. Ronan O'Gara (Cork Con., Munster). Are the players registered or otherwise affiliated to these clubs even if they don't actually play for them?

They do. It's quite rare now for it to happen but it was commonplace several years ago. POC played for Young Munster upon his comeback from injury last year. A lot of the younger, fringe players would rely heavily on the AIL for game time. The likes of Nagle and Peter O'Mahony were regulars with Cork Con last year. Very few of the seasoned professionals and regulars would ever turn out for clubs though. Funnily, in Contepomi's first season with Leinster, due to a clerical error which saw him ruled out of HEC participation, he had to play with Carlow for game time. He also made one guest appearance for the RCSI team which was more of a joke but he made several appearances in the AIL.

As far as I know several of the foreign players aren't affiliated to any particular club and are solely with the provinces.

wixfjord

pickarooney wrote: »

I was just wondering why, when they list the players in an Irish squad they always put a club as well as a province in brackets after their names, e.g. Ronan O'Gara (Cork Con., Munster). Are the players registered or otherwise affiliated to these clubs even if they don't actually play for them?

They would be registered with these clubs yes.
As far as I'm aware, all pro players are also affiliated with an AIL club. It's a bit of a legacy, but sometimes can serve a purpose.

For example, when POC was coming back from injury, he played a game or two with Young Munster, and guys on the cusp of the senior team, or out of favour with the senior team would play AIL too, the likes of Madigan and Conway for Leinster would have played AIL last year I think.

Generally though, it makes no real difference. I remember Felipe Contepomi was registered with Co. Carlow for a season! (Played one game too if I remember!).

wixfjord

GerM wrote: »

They do. It's quite rare now for it to happen but it was commonplace several years ago. POC played for Young Munster upon his comeback from injury last year. A lot of the younger, fringe players would rely heavily on the AIL for game time. The likes of Nagle and Peter O'Mahony were regulars with Cork Con last year. Very few of the seasoned professionals and regulars would ever turn out for clubs though. Funnily, in Contepomi's first season with Leinster, due to a clerical error which saw him ruled out of HEC participation, he had to play with Carlow for game time. He also made one guest appearance for the RCSI team which was more of a joke but he made several appearances in the AIL.

As far as I know several of the foreign players aren't affiliated to any particular club and are solely with the provinces.

You can say that again!

Risteard

TOL is playing with Dolphin tonight for example.

bamboozle

i've seen Cian Healy and SOB play for Clontarf (3 seasons ago) some of the internationals help out with a bit of coaching with their clubs.

lots of fringe provincial players regularly turn out for their clubs.

colman1212

Because the clubs are more proud of the players they produce than anyone and its great to bring things back to grass roots rugby. I for one love seeing the original clubs the international players came from on the program.

GerM

colman1212 wrote: »

Because the clubs are more proud of the players they produce than anyone and its great to bring things back to grass roots rugby. I for one love seeing the original clubs the international players came from on the program.

I love seeing their names and then trying to figure out which team Cork Con pinched them from. :pac:

[Jackass]

There's also a status attached to it, Brian O'Driscoll was affiliated with Blackrock College at the beginning of his international career, but supposedly is given an annual "grant" by UCD to be on their books now (O'Driscoll has played with both clubs).

Foreign players all have to associate themselves with a club as far as I know. Boss is with Terenure College for example, (I know he's not foreign, but coming down from Ulster and originally from New Zealand, has no affiliation with any Leinster clubs and has never played with any, so not sure what the point is...), Nacewa is with Old Belvedere, Strauss is with Old Wesley etc. etc.

For younger guys, like Cian Healy, he played for many years with Clontarf and is still registered with them, same with O'Malley at Old Belvedere...

pickarooney

Thanks for all the comprehensive answers. Is Ireland unique in this respect or do the Welsh and Scottish players from the regional sides keep an association with club sides? Or were the old club sides all merged together to form the Ospreys etc.?

durkadurka

Risteard wrote: »

TOL is playing with Dolphin tonight for example.

Using every bit of strength I have to stop myself from responding sarcastically to this

[Jackass]

No, the difference is that Irish (now professional) sides have always been "provincial", so you have your local club, followed by provincial club, followed by national team, where as in Wales they were just local team straight to international team in the past, and recently the local teams have been replaced by four (originally five) "regional" professional teams, rather than being an additional tier to the playing structure, so it's very artificial in Welsh rugby and there's a disassociation from amature to professional. All the amature Welsh clubs still exist (such as Llanelli, Neath, Newport, Swansea etc.) but they are in the welsh amature league (similar to AIL) but are completely disassociated with the professional outfits.

The Welsh modelled their system on the Irish one, but that is one of the few differences. The Welsh clubs, until recently anyway, had more involvement in A and under age competitions that the Irish sides in the Anglo-Welsh competitions etc., and that's where the young players would ply their trade, rather than in the lesser leagues like Irish young players.

pickarooney

Just to expand a little on it, what would be a typical path for a Welsh or Scottish player to progress from underage rugby to the national side?

GerM

There is still a Welsh Premiership and players do play with teams in them as well as being on the books of the regional sides, just the same as in Ireland. Gavin Quinnell, for example, was playing for the Llanelli club side when he received his horrific injury last year. The club is Llanelli, the region is Scarlets. The clubs of Neath and Swansea still exist also. I don't think players in Wales have to be on the books of a club although a number of the fringe players are for game time.

A typical path for a player nowadays in Wales would be just the same as here. Play underage rugby, brought into an academy set up and through the ranks to the national side.

pickarooney

So if a Welsh first team player from Ospreys was in a similar situation to O'Connell would he be able to train with Neath or are there junior sides that directly feed the regions? Sorry if this has been answered and I haven't grasped it yet.

GerM

pickarooney wrote: »

So if a Welsh first team player from Ospreys was in a similar situation to O'Connell would he be able to train with Neath or are there junior sides that directly feed the regions? Sorry if this has been answered and I haven't grasped it yet.

It would depend on the player. The top Welsh players would never be near a club. If it was a Welsh first team player they'd train with their region and get some game time in the ML and LV Cup. If it was a more fringe player that was affiliated with a club they'd play with the club for game time I'm sure whilst training with the region.

POC's situation was very unusual and it was something that had to be handled very delicately. 95% of the time an international wouldn't be near an AIL side either. Things have changed in the last few years. 3 or 4 years ago, it wouldn't be unheard of for top players to appear for their AIL clubs though on request. I remember just before the Lions tour in 2005, D'Arcy played for Lansdowne against Clontarf because, apparently, Woodward wanted him to get some game time ahead of the tour. Of course it was a little more suspicious by the fact that Lansdowne were in a relegation battle, it was the second last game of the season and on the day Gordon D'Arcy, Felipe Contepomi, Niall Ronan, Aidan McCullen and John Lyne all appeared on the pitch for Lansdowne! They put Tarf (who were title contenders up until that point) to the sword. Luckily the rules have changed now and such a situation isn't allowed to take place anymore.

Morf

GerM wrote: »

Funnily, in Contepomi's first season with Leinster, due to a clerical error which saw him ruled out of HEC participation, he had to play with Carlow for game time. He also made one guest appearance for the RCSI team which was more of a joke but he made several appearances in the AIL.

wixfjord wrote: »

I remember Felipe Contepomi was registered with Co. Carlow for a season! (Played one game too if I remember!).

He played one game away at Shannon. I was looking at the photo in the clubhouse tonight. His thick lustrous hair was the envy of many a man back then.

CatFromHue

Back then Carlow were a force to be reckoned with. It may seem amusing now but they had a very good team.

Funk It

pickarooney wrote: »

Thanks for all the comprehensive answers. Is Ireland unique in this respect or do the Welsh and Scottish players from the regional sides keep an association with club sides? Or were the old club sides all merged together to form the Ospreys etc.?

Well one thing I know is about how it works in Scotland, there is a pro draft each year which connects contracted players from Glasgow and Edinburgh out to Prem 1 sides. The exception being that a player in his first pro season may stay connected to his original club. For example, this year we got Greame Morrison, Troy Nathan (former Connacht player) James Flemming and a few more. James played with us previously and is only stepping up to pro rugby so gets to stay outside of the draft.

We had Simon Webster playing for us a couple seasons ago, but dont have a clue what club he is connected with now (don't think he is retired yet)