Why I am voting for McGuinness

darkman2

First off I am no Shinner - far from it.


BUT I know courage when I see it. And McGuinness has courage. He spent 30 years of his life taking the IRA to peace. If the IRA had known his intention for 20 of those years he would have been shot. He had to be sly and courages with Adams. His life was always in danger.

I know the history of the North like we all do. The injustice to Catholics and Nationalists was very real. And to hear some hypocrite bastard like Harris condemn (as he did McAleese in her election) McGuinness - where the hell were people like him when Irish people in the North needed our help? Nowhere - complete cowards and there is no other word for them.

McGuinness has my vote - NOT Sinn Féin.

imme

good for you OP, whatever.:rolleyes:
Why on earth do you feel the need to share it with us though

darkman2

Because there is a media witch hunt against McGuinness. I am middle class. They have driven my vote to him. I would not have voted for him at the start. I will now.

The Scientician

darkman2 wrote: »

The injustice to Catholics and Nationalists was very real. And to hear some hypocrite bastard like Harris condemn (as he did McAleese in her election) McGuinness - where the hell were people like him when Irish people in the North needed our help?

You have to ask yourself though, how did blowing up people, shooting kids and adults, and all the other nasty business that the IRA got up to, combat the injustices against Catholics/Nationalists?

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

Because there is a media witch hunt against McGuinness. I am middle class. They have driven my vote to him. I would not have voted for him at the start. I will now.

Ah, so you've let the media influence you so much that it has actually made up your mind for you?

Tut tut! Haven't you ever been to to the Conspiracy Theory forum? You shouldn't let the mainstream media tell you what to do :P

10green bottles

The Scientician wrote: »

You have to ask yourself though, how did blowing up people, shooting kids and adults, and all the other nasty business that the IRA got up to, combat the injustices against Catholics/Nationalists?

You would need too ask then how any country got on so ?? Freedom for Libya etc.... wonder how they got so far ??

Cavehill Red

darkman2 wrote: »

First off I am no Shinner - far from it.

I don't believe you.

I'll tell you why - Sinn Fein are trying to boost the appeal of McGuinness in this election to those who would never normally vote for Sinn Fein by doing exactly this - having 'false flag' posters come on bulletin board, websites, blogs and twitter to announce, "I've never voted Sinn Fein before, but ...", "While I would never have thought to vote for Sinn Fein, nevertheless McGuinness...", "I think the media are picking on McGuinness and he has my vote, though I am no Sinn Fein supporter..."

Over and over again. Anyone who has sought to track this election online has seen this somewhat blunt and obvious phenomenon. Now, it's possible (though unlikely) that I'm doing you a disservice and you're not actually obeying a brief from HQ to go and puff McGuinness on this website while posing as a non-Shinner. It is possible. But highly unlikely in the circumstances.

The Scientician

10green bottles wrote: »

You would need too ask then how any country got on so ?? Freedom for Libya etc.... wonder how they got so far ??

Wow well last time I checked Northern Ireland is still under the "British yoke". None of McGuinness et al's butchery actually got them what they set out for. In my estimation NICRA, the SDLP and even the Alliance Party were more positively involved in bringing parity of esteem to NI than Sinn Féin has ever been. But alas those organisations have been sidelined by history.

yobr

darkman2 wrote: »

Because there is a media witch hunt against McGuinness. I am middle class. They have driven my vote to him. I would not have voted for him at the start. I will now.

How dare we have the temerity to question candidates for election! I think you will find that all candidates have had their past actions questioned...were we all supposed to roll over for St Marty the peacemaker?

darkman2

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I don't believe you.

I don't care. Check my history of anti Sinn Féin posts if you want. I despise not only the quality of their Dáil deputies but their economics are anathema to me.


I am giving McGuinness my no1 as a middle class voter. And I am not the only one. The RTE "Prime Time" debate sealed that for me. I won't be led by a biased media.


Also I don't think posters here understand or cared to read the point. Yes McGuinness was in the IRA but he took huge risks that took 20 years to drag them to a political path.

seanybiker

He was brutal on primetime though.

I can't understand why people like him because he supposedly turned his back on violence, what about the others who didn't have to turn their back on it because they where never involved in it in the first place. Ovbioulsy not including the kiddy fiddler advocate

10green bottles

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I don't believe you.

I'll tell you why - Sinn Fein are trying to boost the appeal of McGuinness in this election to those who would never normally vote for Sinn Fein by doing exactly this - having 'false flag' posters come on bulletin board, websites, blogs and twitter to announce, "I've never voted Sinn Fein before, but ...", "While I would never have thought to vote for Sinn Fein, nevertheless McGuinness...", "I think the media are picking on McGuinness and he has my vote, though I am no Sinn Fein supporter..."

Over and over again. Anyone who has sought to track this election online has seen this somewhat blunt and obvious phenomenon. Now, it's possible (though unlikely) that I'm doing you a disservice and you're not actually obeying a brief from HQ to go and puff McGuinness on this website while posing as a non-Shinner. It is possible. But highly unlikely in the circumstances.

The rise of SF and the working class seems to have annoyed some people/posters.The failed policies of those that told the people on the margins that they would be ok seemed to have failed and now they can only attack SF.oh how it has all failed for Lab/FG !!

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

I am giving McGuinness my no1 as a middle class voter. And I am not the only one. The RTE "Prime Time" debate sealed that for me. I won't be led by a biased media.

darkman2 wrote: »

Because there is a media witch hunt against McGuinness. I am middle class. They have driven my vote to him. I would not have voted for him at the start. I will now.

Seems you ARE being led by the media!

10green bottles

seanybiker wrote: »

He was brutal on primetime though.

I can't understand why people like him because he supposedly turned his back on violence, what about the others who didn't have to turn their back on it because they where never involved in it in the first place. Ovbioulsy not including the kiddy fiddler advocate

bRILLIANT.

darkman2

yobr wrote: »

How dare we have the temerity to question candidates for election! I think you will find that all candidates have had their past actions questioned...were we all supposed to roll over for St Marty the peacemaker?

I draw the line when one is called a murderer on National television.

The Scientician

darkman2 wrote: »

I draw the line when one is called a murderer on National television.

What if they actually are a murderer?

darkman2

seanybiker wrote: »

He was brutal on primetime though.

I can't understand why people like him because he supposedly turned his back on violence, what about the others who didn't have to turn their back on it because they where never involved in it in the first place. Ovbioulsy not including the kiddy fiddler advocate

Do you know what would have happened to McGuinness if he had gone on television and said openly the direction he was taking the IRA in the 1970's? That's what him and Adams were doing but they had to make a pretense to keep internal members unaware so they could take over the movement. This is reality. Not make believe.

darkman2

The Scientician wrote: »

What if they actually are a murderer?

Are you willing to go to court to prove that? It's a very serious thing to say even online.

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

I draw the line when one is called a murderer on National television.

"If you think Martin McGuinness was not directly involved in murder while a member of the Provisional IRA then it's just as well you let the media do your thinking!" is what one might say to you

10green bottles

The Scientician wrote: »

What if they actually are a murderer?

Oh for god's sake !! Go to a garda station and fkukin report it if you believe it is true. :eek:

darkman2

MrStuffins wrote: »

If you think Martin McGuinness was not directly involved in murder while a member of the Provisional IRA then it's just as well you let the media do your thinking!

And what if you were involved in murder as a member of the RUC or British Army? Do you believe McGuinness ever killed someone himself?

The Scientician

darkman2 wrote: »

Are you willing to go to court to prove that? It's a very serious thing to say even online.

OMG, except I didn't say anyone was a murderer. Although being a major part of a terrorist organisation that committed multitudes of murders, the odds are he was probably involved directly or indirectly in murder.

darkman2

MrStuffins wrote: »

"If you think Martin McGuinness was not directly involved in murder while a member of the Provisional IRA then it's just as well you let the media do your thinking!" is what one might say to you

Well, that's a very serious accusation to make and I would say not very wise even on a forum like this.

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

And what if you were involved in murder as a member of the RUC or British Army? Do you believe McGuinness ever killed someone himself?

I've never been in the RUC or the British Army.

The Scientician

10green bottles wrote: »

Oh for god's sake !! Go to a garda station and fkukin report it if you believe it is true. :eek:

If I believe a what if is true? What wut?

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

Well, that's a very serious accusation to make and I would say not very wise even on a forum like this.

Just as well nobosy is accusing then eh?

darkman2

The Scientician wrote: »

OMG, except I didn't say anyone was a murderer. Although being a major part of a terrorist organisation that committed multitudes of murders, the odds are he was probably involved directly or indirectly in murder.

How do you know that? Tell me. I want your evidence of what murder he was involved in. I said be careful. You don't want to be careful. So tell us.

darkman2

MrStuffins wrote: »

I've never been in the RUC or the British Army.

You are one of those people that clearly don't understand what happened up there. If only you were a Nationalist up there in the late 60's. You would understand then.

10green bottles

The Scientician wrote: »

OMG, except I didn't say anyone was a murderer. Although being a major part of a terrorist organisation that committed multitudes of murders, the odds are he was probably involved directly or indirectly in murder.

Are you clean or do you want to post without the great privelaige of keyboard??

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

How do you know that? Tell me. I want your evidence of what murder he was involved in. I said be careful. You don't want to be careful. So tell us.

Dude, nobody here has proof! It seems your whole argument is "prove me wrong" and you know nobody is going to come forward with a glove or a blood-stained white Ford Bronco. Good for you, give yourself a pat on the back.

I have no proof that the man who calls himself my father actually is, but i'm not going to just say he isn't just because he has no DNA evidence saying so!

McGuiness was a high ranking member of an organisation who murdered a lot of people. he still has blood on his hands, whether it be directly or not!

The Scientician

Ok, let's put it another way, if he was a major member of the IRA and wasn't involved in the murder of people, then ergo he was ineffectual in that role. What does that say about his ability to be a figurehead for Ireland? What roles as a President would he fail to fulfill that he seems to have failed to fulfill as a senior member of a terrorist organisation?

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

You are one of those people that clearly don't understand what happened up there. If only you were a Nationalist up there in the late 60's. You would understand then.

You deduced that from me not being in the RUC or British Army?

And I have to know what it was like to be a Nationalist in NI in the 60s to know what i'm talking about? Were you a nationalist in NI in the 60s?

darkman2

MrStuffins wrote: »

Dude, nobody here has proof! It seems your whole argument is "prove me wrong" and you know nobody is going to come forward with a glove or a blood-stained white Ford Bronco. Good for you, give yourself a pat on the back.

I have no proof that the man who calls himself my father actually is, but i'm not going to just say he isn't just because he has no DNA evidence saying so!

McGuiness was a high ranking member of an organisation who murdered a lot of people. he still has blood on his hands, whether it be directly or not!

Better to keep your mouth shut then or your keyboard away I reckon.

seanybiker

darkman2 wrote: »

Do you know what would have happened to McGuinness if he had gone on television and said openly the direction he was taking the IRA in the 1970's? That's what him and Adams were doing but they had to make a pretense to keep internal members unaware so they could take over the movement. This is reality. Not make believe.

As john McEnroe once said. You cannot be serious.

Honestly. Put the beer away and have a good sleep for yourself in whatever world your living in. This isn't after hours man.

The Scientician

darkman2 wrote: »

How do you know that? Tell me. I want your evidence of what murder he was involved in. I said be careful. You don't want to be careful. So tell us.

How do I know what?? That the odds are that a senior member of a terrorist organisation was involved in murder? :rolleyes:

10green bottles

The Scientician wrote: »

If I believe a what if is true? What wut?

Cop on lad's,posts reported.If you believe that a murder has been committed then ring the Garda/police otherwise it is all rubbish !!

The Scientician

10green bottles wrote: »

Cop on lad's,posts reported.If you believe that a murder has been committed then ring the Garda/police otherwise it is all rubbish !!

Plenty of murders have been committed by the IRA, your point?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_killed_by_the_Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

Better to keep your mouth shut then or your keyboard away I reckon.

because I can't prove my father is actually my father?

Are you telling me my father is not my father because he never showed me proof? Did you ever get a DNA test with your father? How can you know he really was who he said he was?

He could've been a <exican bandito for all you know, unless you had proof of course? if not then it's OBVIOUS he wasn't your father, using your logic!

darkman2

The Scientician wrote: »

Ok, let's put it another way, if he was a major member of the IRA and wasn't involved in the murder of people, then ergo he was ineffectual in that role. What does that say about his ability to be a figurehead for Ireland? What roles as a President would he fail to fulfill that he seems to have failed to fulfill as a senior member of a terrorist organisation?

Oh so now he had to lead the IRA in murder to be a head of state here? Not good enough unless he did that?

De Velera, Lemass, Collins were all good enough. Unlike McGuinness they all actually killed people themselves.


Maybe McGuinness did kill someone - I don't know. FACT is there is no evidence whatsoever that he ever did.

He was inside the movement playing a dangerous game with them. That's what you can read in the most up to date books on the issue.

10green bottles

seanybiker wrote: »

As john McEnroe once said. You cannot be serious.

Honestly. Put the beer away and have a good sleep for yourself in whatever world your living in. This isn't after hours man.

You need to remember this too What beer has to do it i dont no but have some cop on your-self.

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

Maybe McGuinness did kill someone.

that's a pretty serious accusation to make, I hope you have proof!

10green bottles

The Scientician wrote: »

Plenty of murders have been committed by the IRA, your point?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_killed_by_the_Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army

By a certain person.

seanybiker

10green bottles wrote: »

You need to remember this too What beer has to do it i dont no but have some cop on your-self.

Your man is talking shyte. He must be drunk or something to explain what's he's banging on about

darkman2

seanybiker wrote: »

As john McEnroe once said. You cannot be serious.

I am very serious. Don't you know anything about the provisional IRA!?

darkman2

MrStuffins wrote: »

that's a pretty serious accusation to make, I hope you have proof!

With the proviso "I don't know"...but I am very serious. Some would want to be careful of what they accuse people of.

If you have evidence - tell us.

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

With the proviso "I don't know"...but I am very serious. Some would want to be careful of what they accuse people of.

If you have evidence - tell us.

The man is a convicted terrorist. The man was caught with 150lbs of explosives and 4000 rounds of ammo..... bombs and bullets are (allegedly) used for one thing!

The Scientician

darkman2 wrote: »

Oh so now he had to lead the IRA in murder to be a head of state here? Not good enough unless he did that?

De Velera, Lemass, Collins were all good enough. Unlike McGuinness they all actually killed people themselves.


Maybe McGuinness did kill someone - I don't know. FACT is there is no evidence whatsoever that he ever did.

He was inside the movement playing a dangerous game with them. That's what you can read in the most up to date books on the issue.

OK here's my opinion, and I'll divulge more than I had intended. I'm an Irish nationalist, I suppose. My family are all from Northern Ireland and in many ways Northern Ireland is what I consider home. However I can't, and don't, and won't abide the killing of people to remove the border between me and my ancestral home. Saying that, bygones ultimately have to be let bygones.
If Mr. McGuinness were completely open and honest about his involvement in the IRA I might still be reluctant to vote for him but I would have respect for him at least. But to continue the farce that he is lily-white, never having been involved in anything that resulted in people dying, just beggars belief.

Despite the appeal to our ancestors who fought the British and secured a modicum of Irish independence, all down the years of the Troubles most people in the Republic weren't overly concerned with the North. And still today although I imagine most people in the Republic romantically think having a 32 county Ireland would be swell and all, I doubt you'd find many proponents of the use of physical force to achieve it.

darkman2

MrStuffins wrote: »

The man is a convicted terrorist. The man was caught with 150lbs of explosives and 4000 rounds of ammo..... bombs and bullets are (allegedly) used for one thing!

Waiting on your evidence that he killed someone.

10green bottles

MrStuffins wrote: »

The man is a convicted terrorist. The man was caught with 150lbs of explosives and 4000 rounds of ammo..... bombs and bullets are (allegedly) used for one thing!

Do you know your history ?? Jaysus that never happened before hi,imagine
That has been pointed out to you before but sure fvck it keep making noise

MrStuffins

darkman2 wrote: »

Waiting on your evidence that he killed someone.

I'm still waiting on evidence that your father is in fact your father. We'll swap when you show me.

By the way, I never said he killed anybody.

10green bottles wrote: »

Do you know your history ?? Jaysus that never happened before hi,imagine
That has been pointed out to you before but sure fvck it keep making noise

I've no idea what you're on about! Please make sense next time you address me in a post.

10green bottles

The Scientician wrote: »

OK here's my opinion, and I'll divulge more than I had intended. I'm an Irish nationalist, I suppose. My family are all from Northern Ireland and in many ways Northern Ireland is what I consider home. However I can't, and don't, and won't abide the killing of people to remove the border between me and my ancestral home. Saying that, bygones ultimately have to be let bygones.
If Mr. McGuinness were completely open and honest about his involvement in the IRA I might still be reluctant to vote for him but I would have respect for him at least. But to continue the farce that he is lily-white, never having been involved in anything that resulted in people dying, just beggars belief.

Despite the appeal to our ancestors who fought the British and secured a modicum of Irish independence, all down the years of the Troubles most people in the Republic weren't overly concerned with the North. And still today although I imagine most people in the Republic romantically think having a 32 county Ireland would be swell and all, I doubt you'd find many proponents of the use of physical force to achieve it.

The NI sympathy post :pac: Guess were me is from ??
Bull and Shiip !! Look at me the poor wee man divide and conquer post !! feck off