getting setter to drop?

fitzy_fitzy

Hi lads
I have an irish red setter(11 months old) i have her sitting and dropping while on the lead no problem. Also she would return to the whistle no problem.
Recently i have gone out into the fields with her to introduce her to game. She has risen a few pheasent and snipe(she didn't set them). I was advised to get her out hunting and she seems to be taking to it well.
The problem been while out hunting she isn't too bothered about commands. I have very little control of her.
ie. She isn't returning to the whislte like she did before.
She is ranging abit too far. She wont drop to the whistle unless she is on the lead.
I understand that she is still a pup and she gets very excited out hunting.

I would like to get her to drop on command and return on command and down the road turning on command.

What can i do over next few weeks on returning and droping her.
I am new to this, any help appreciated

Spunk84

" I have very little control of her":eek:

The above is the kicker mate. Straight back to the yard or training area.Your going to ruin the dog unless you get it under control, the dog needs to know your the boss! the dog is ignoring you because it thinks its the pack leader and until you "break" the dogs perception of you being under it in the "pack", you will get no where.

First things first. Forget about the dropping,ranging,retrieving or anything else and focus on the recall, this is the most important thing. If you dont have good recall there's no point bringing the dog into the field.

Ive never trained a setter but there's a few lads here who work pointing dogs, im sure they will be along shortly. Also i heard the red setters dont really come on in the field until there over 2 years, just what i heard thou

jap gt

i had a bit of trouble with my setter when she got interested in game, not listening to the whistle and returning when she wanted, took her away from the field and back to basics, she is much better now recall is near perfect, as was said they need reminding of position from time to time

As for setters maturing at 2, i think it depends on the dog, my bitch is 18 months and i had her out sunday with a pointer and for the first time she backed the pointer on a point rock steady , she is improving with every bird now, cant wait to get a few birds shot for her, i would say its different for every setter but fingers crossed mine will be well matured when she hits 2

deeksofdoom

Is the dog setting at all?

fitzy_fitzy

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Is the dog setting at all?

The dog has not set any game yet, but only has come across a few birds. She has shown some signs of setting on birds in the garden when she was younger.
This my first gun dog so everything is new, but I want to do right by the dog. I have spoken to two men who know their stuff.
One said get her out hunting mad so that she gets interested in birds, then he said it is easy to train her. Get her hunting first.

The other guy said on getting her to set. Take her out with 20 yard lead where you know pheasant are and as soon as she comes upon them grab the lead to prevent her flushing them and encourage a set.
This seems difficult as where will you find wild pheasants that you can train your dog with.

Do I need to shoot a pheasant over her for her to realise what's suppose to happen?

deeksofdoom

First off back to basics. Get the dog under control. It seems to me the dog is not obeying your commands all the time. Your dog has to obey you 100% of the time and if it doesn't you have to get out there and correct it immediately, that may mean going through ditches briars etc to catch the dog and bring it back to where you gave it the command. Meet it where it least expects. the other thing to remeber is never give a dog a command unless your 100% sure its going to obey you.

Don't bring it out into the fields until its under control.

As for the setting, get the obedience done first, there is point in trying to train an out of control dog to set birds.

fitzy_fitzy

deeksofdoom wrote: »

First off back to basics. Get the dog under control. It seems to me the dog is not obeying your commands all the time. Your dog has to obey you 100% of the time and if it doesn't you have to get out there and correct it immediately, that may mean going through ditches briars etc to catch the dog and bring it back to where you gave it the command. Meet it where it least expects. the other thing to remeber is never give a dog a command unless your 100% sure its going to obey you.

Don't bring it out into the fields until its under control.

As for the setting, get the obedience done first, there is point in trying to train an out of control dog to set birds.

Cheers for advice
One last question, I have heard contradicting opinions.
Some say your dog should be scared of you and more say yee should be a team. What's your opinion?
And when correcting your dog, should it just be verbal or should you give it a slap on the nose. How far should you go correcting her.
Setter I think are that bit more sensitive.

Spunk84

fitzy_fitzy wrote: »

deeksofdoom wrote: »

First off back to basics. Get the dog under control. It seems to me the dog is not obeying your commands all the time. Your dog has to obey you 100% of the time and if it doesn't you have to get out there and correct it immediately, that may mean going through ditches briars etc to catch the dog and bring it back to where you gave it the command. Meet it where it least expects. the other thing to remeber is never give a dog a command unless your 100% sure its going to obey you.

Don't bring it out into the fields until its under control.

As for the setting, get the obedience done first, there is point in trying to train an out of control dog to set birds.

Cheers for advice
One last question, I have heard contradicting opinions.
Some say your dog should be scared of you and more say yee should be a team. What's your opinion?
And when correcting your dog, should it just be verbal or should you give it a slap on the nose. How far should you go correcting her.
Setter I think are that bit more sensitive.

A dog shouldn't be scared of you, it should respect you! A good sturn shout at the dog should be enough to show the dog it's doing something wrong. If you go down the road of smacking a dog your going asking for trouble. Never take the your frustration out on the dog, if you feel your going to lash out at the dog put it back on the lead and walk away. Cool down and do it all over again. It's all about repeating the training until it's made clear what you want. If you do have to give it "correcting" in a forceful way do it by grabbing the scruff of the dogs neck and repeating the command, that's if you want to go down that way. It's tough training and even tougher getting a dog to do what you want.

deeksofdoom

fitzy_fitzy wrote: »

Cheers for advice
One last question, I have heard contradicting opinions.
Some say your dog should be scared of you and more say yee should be a team. What's your opinion?
And when correcting your dog, should it just be verbal or should you give it a slap on the nose. How far should you go correcting her.
Setter I think are that bit more sensitive.

You should not hit a dog, as spunk said shouting no at the dog should be enough. Keep your commands short and consistent, i.e. 'here' instead of 'come here', 'sit' instead of 'sit down' etc....

Setters and pointers don't take kindly to being shouted at, its not so much the volume its more the tone you use.

As for the dog being scared of you, if the dog is scarred of you he's just going to run off and hide as soon as you get out of the car.