Rasied veggie bed for 190 euro.You're joking me??

paddy147

Please tell me where there is 190 euro in that link below??

A box of screws/nails is around 4 euro from a builders providers
And a brand new 8 foot long pressure treated sleeper is 18 euro from a builders providers.
An 8 foot length of pressure treated 2x3 is 5-6 euro from a builders providers

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/gardenplants/1952203

Corsendonk

paddy147 wrote: »

Please tell me where there is 190 euro in that link below??

A box of screws/nails is around 4 euro from a builders providers
And a brand new 8 foot long pressure treated sleeper is 18 euro from a builders providers.
An 8 foot length of pressure treated 2x3 is 5-6 euro from a builders providers

phttp://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/gardenplants/1952203

Yeap seen plenty of these types of deals around, selling everything from raised beds to glasshouses that wouldn't last a stiff breeze or one summer.

celticbhoy27

don't think i've ever seen a bargain on done deal?! some peoples ideas of a products worth are hugely off the mark! can't see too many of those being sold :rolleyes:

dardevle

......


believe it or not , the most expensive part of that 'kit' is the topsoil blend, which runs about €100 per m3...while not trying to justify the price, if you take that out of the equation then you can see where the other costs are borne out...delivery and profit included.



...........

paddy147

dardevle wrote: »

......


believe it or not , the most expensive part of that 'kit' is the topsoil blend, which runs about €100 per m3...while not trying to justify the price, if you take that out of the equation then you can see where the other costs are borne out...delivery and profit included.



...........

Eh,more like 70 euro for a ton bag of screened topsoil with added manure.

Thats all that soil above is.Ive seen it in the flesh,and its just screened topsoil (possibly with a very small bit of manure added in)

dardevle

.....
again, while not trying to justify the asking price for something i would never be inclined to purchase myself....
but typically speaking, a vegetable grade topsoil blend is made up of:

40% screened topsoil
45% peatfree compost
10% horticulture sand
5% manure

currently these blends run anywhere from €99 to €119 per cube depending on your location and if from source or through a secondary vendor.




.....

Corsendonk

dardevle wrote: »

.....
again, while not trying to justify the asking price for something i would never be inclined to purchase myself....
but typically speaking, a vegetable grade topsoil blend is made up of:

40% screened topsoil
45% peatfree compost
10% horticulture sand
5% manure

currently these blends run anywhere from €99 to €119 per cube depending on your location and if from source or through a secondary vendor.




.....

How is the soil screened?

dardevle

.....

i believe that the screening process usually involves a mechanical tumbler type screen , typically it would have screens in the order of 10-15mm.

when you see prices like this being charged for growing mediums it just goes to prove the worth of having good soil in the garden to begin with, or failing that - improving what you do have over time.



.....

Corsendonk

dardevle wrote: »

.....

i believe that the screening process usually involves a mechanical tumbler type screen , typically it would have screens in the order of 10-15mm.

when you see prices like this being charged for growing mediums it just goes to prove the worth of having good soil in the garden to begin with, or failing that - improving what you do have over time.



.....

Just filtering out the lumps? So no actual soil testing for chemical or micro analysis? Sure you could be buying brown field contaminated soil for all you know. Or soil with soil borne diseases or seed from invasive weeds. More important reasons for building up your own soil, at least then you have more control.

dardevle

......

screening is purely the mechanical process involved in reducing the particle size (and also removing metal and glass contaminates if present)
so i can't speak as to the lab testing that these products undergo, some are guaranteed weed free, others pH balanced, sterilised etc and if so at least offer some recourse to the customer,all be it at a premium,

.... contrast that to the number of people buying soils by the truck load, from sites all over the country for a couple of hundred € a time (average truck load 16cu ).....a real bargain:(

the bottom line is ,unless you are purchasing from a stonecold reliable source, you are entering into a lottery as to what you will end up with.


.....

fodda

Also in that Ad he says he is using 200 x 100. Well that is 8" x 4" and a lot more expensive than 2" x 3" as somebody mentioned.

redser7

You can make your own 8 x 4 raised beds with 2nd hand scaffold planks. Price - about 10 euros.

fred funk }{

Lads, that chap is running a legit business and running a business ain't cheap. To list the cost of the materials and think that the rest goes in his back pocket is wrong. For starters, there's 21% vat included in the price which is about €33 then it also includes delivery which incures costs for diesel, insurance, maintenance, tax etc.

I bet he's not making anything like some of you think he does.

dardevle

......

i agree completely Fred, while this is not something i would be interested in purchasing myself, it is a product that will appeal to some (aged, disabled etc) and whomever is providing the service are entitled to get a return for their effort,

i just think that in fairness, the big ticket item (soil) should be highlighted on the price list, as it was omitted from the op.


.........

fodda

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Lads, that chap is running a legit business and running a business ain't cheap. To list the cost of the materials and think that the rest goes in his back pocket is wrong. For starters, there's 21% vat included in the price which is about €33 then it also includes delivery which incures costs for diesel, insurance, maintenance, tax etc.

I bet he's not making anything like some of you think he does.

Totally agree.

Jim Martin

Ideally, screened soil should be sterilised by UV light to kill off any unwanted weeds, but I don't know what that would add to the cost?

magicbastarder

redser7 wrote: »

You can make your own 8 x 4 raised beds with 2nd hand scaffold planks. Price - about 10 euros.

i assume he meant the planks were 8"x4", not that the beds were 8'x4', in case there's any conclusion; you won't get 8"x4" scaffolding planks.

redser7

Sorry for any confusion and I wasn't trying to have a go at this person. Just pointing out that there are cheap options.

paddy147

So I checked this morning,in person,and that ton bag of top soil is just screened top soil with some compost mixed in,and thats it.

paddy147

magicbastarder wrote: »

i assume he meant the planks were 8"x4", not that the beds were 8'x4', in case there's any conclusion; you won't get 8"x4" scaffolding planks.

A scaffold plank/board is 8 feet long,9 inches tall and 2 inches thick.

I have a few of them here in my back garden,and my girlfriend has several raised beds made out of them,on her allotment too.

Current prices for used scaffold boards/planks is around 2 euro 50 cents-3 euro for an 8 foot length.

A good few builders providers are selling 8 foot long pressure treateed sleepers for around the 18-20 euro mark.

I managed to pick up 4 brand new 8 foot long pressure treated sleepers for 50 euro the other day off of Done Deal.
Bargain and a half.

dardevle

........


if you add up even the figures you provided and add on the hidden extra costs to the supplier, such as vat, transport etc....
i just don't see where the huge mark up is.





over priced comment in relation to since edited post
......

paddy147

dardevle wrote: »

........


again you say over priced, but if you add up even the figures you provided and add on the hidden extra costs to the supplier, such as vat, transport etc....i just don't see where the huge mark up is.




......

Ton bag of screened topsoil with some added compost...70 euro
3 x 8 feet pressure treated sleepers (18 euro each) .......54 euro
1 x 10 foot long 3 x 2 pressure treated wood (stakes).....7 euro
Box of 25 long wood screws/nails.....................................3 euro

Thats a total of 134 euro

Add in 20 euro for delievery and that an all in total of 154 euro.

dardevle

paddy147 wrote: »

Ton bag of screened topsoil with some added compost...70 euro
3 x 8 feet pressure treated sleepers (18 euro each) .......54 euro
1 x 10 foot long 3 x 2 pressure treated wood (stakes).....7 euro
Box of 25 long wood screws/nails.....................................3 euro

Thats a total of 134 euro

Add in 20 euro for delievery and that an all in total of 154 euro.

adding in vat @21%, puts another €32 onto that, leaving a handsome profit of €4 on each unit supplied


......

paddy147

dardevle wrote: »

adding in vat @21%, puts another €32 onto that, leaving a handsome profit of €4 on each unit supplied


......

Eh those prices I posted above allready do include vat,thats the thing.

dardevle

.....

looks like you got yourself a bargain then by shopping around and sourcing the items youself.....of course time costs nothing when doing something for yourself.



......

paddy147

dardevle wrote: »

.....

looks like you got yourself a bargain then by shopping around and sourcing the items youself.....of course time costs nothing when doing something for yourself.



......

You still have to "do it yourself" in order to put this kit together.

You need a spirit level,lump hammer,screwgun,also a hand wood saw/electric sabre saw and you will have to physically put this together propperly yourself.

Its not a case of "plug and play".


So yeah,sourcing the stuff myself and at a far better price is a wize and good move.

I cannot see the point in paying well over the odds for something thats not actually worth the money thats being asked for it.


regards.

s8n

dardevle wrote: »

.....

looks like you got yourself a bargain then by shopping around and sourcing the items youself.....of course time costs nothing when doing something for yourself.



......

What's the story with starting all your posts with .......... ?

dardevle

paddy147 wrote: »

You still have to "do it yourself in order" to put this kit together.

You need a lump hammer,screwgun,also a wood saw and you will have to physically put this together yourself.

Its not a case of "plug and play".


So yeah,sourcing the stuff myself and at a far better price is a wize and good move.

I cannot see the point in paying well over the odds for something thats not actually worth the money thats being asked for it.


regards.

again you deserve all the plaudits, for taking the time to do your homework,finding the cheapest prices and going to different vendors to get your materials.(what price your time?)

you do realise that there is a marked difference in you giving of your time to source these materials at the best available cost for yourself, and doing it for the paying public at large...would you be willing to go to this trouble for anyone,at no profit to you and at no extra cost to them?

what you have managed to do since the op, is justify 80% of the cost on materials alone (without showing them to be well over the odds), while not even addressing the hidden costs of doing business and returning a profit from the remaining 20%.

........

fred funk }{

paddy147 wrote: »

Ton bag of screened topsoil with some added compost...70 euro
3 x 8 feet pressure treated sleepers (18 euro each) .......54 euro
1 x 10 foot long 3 x 2 pressure treated wood (stakes).....7 euro
Box of 25 long wood screws/nails.....................................3 euro

Thats a total of 134 euro

Add in 20 euro for delievery and that an all in total of 154 euro.

Are you for real Paddy. You've just proved our point

How much do you think someone should make from selling each one of those?. If someone is willing to buy all the bits a pieces themselves and put it together so be it and fair play to them.

Going by your calculations, Cost of materials less VAT = 110 Cost of product less VAT = 157. That gives a wopping profit of 47 euro BEFORE income tax, fuel, insurance etc.

Some people really haven't a clue about business costs.

laoch na mona

if you can get an idiot to pay it shur why not

paddy147

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Are you for real Paddy. You've just proved our point

How much do you think someone should make from selling each one of those?. If someone is willing to buy all the bits a pieces themselves and put it together so be it and fair play to them.

Going by your calculations, Cost of materials less VAT = 110 Cost of product less VAT = 157. That gives a wopping profit of 47 euro BEFORE income tax, fuel, insurance etc.

Some people really haven't a clue about business costs.

Yep Fred Funk that must be it so.........thats why the various well established gardening companies and builders providers who charge the prices to the public,including vat,that I have posted,clearly dont know about business or running a business either.





Oh,and Im not going by "my calculatins" at all.

Im going by the real and lower price that many other people/companies charge the public for these products.


But according to you and you,re post,sure what would some people and companies know,eh??

paddy147

laoch na mona wrote: »

if you can get an idiot to pay it shur why not

People are alot more alert and money conscious these days.But there will allways be the odd few that think they are geting a great deal.

Ah well,their financial loss,at the end of the day.

paddy147

dardevle wrote: »

again you deserve all the plaudits, for taking the time to do your homework,finding the cheapest prices and going to different vendors to get your materials.(what price your time?)

you do realise that there is a marked difference in you giving of your time to source these materials at the best available cost for yourself, and doing it for the paying public at large...would you be willing to go to this trouble for anyone,at no profit to you and at no extra cost to them?

what you have managed to do since the op, is justify 80% of the cost on materials alone (without showing them to be well over the odds), while not even addressing the hidden costs of doing business and returning a profit from the remaining 20%.

........

I live in the real world and it doesnt take a genius to see that that kit is over priced on all aspects.Open your eyes up and have even just a quick look around,and you will see for yourself.

Sonnenblumen

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Are you for real Paddy. You've just proved our point

How much do you think someone should make from selling each one of those?. If someone is willing to buy all the bits a pieces themselves and put it together so be it and fair play to them.

Going by your calculations, Cost of materials less VAT = 110 Cost of product less VAT = 157. That gives a wopping profit of 47 euro BEFORE income tax, fuel, insurance etc.

Some people really haven't a clue about business costs.

Fred - you're absolutely right. Some people just don't have a clue how to use a level never mind run a business.

fred funk }{

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Fred - you're absolutely right. Some people just don't have a clue how to use a level never mind run a business.

kadman

I dont know anywhere you could buy an 8x4 sleeper for 18 euro


kadman

muckyhands

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Fred - you're absolutely right. Some people just don't have a clue how to use a level never mind run a business.

Simply put, the mark up of products in this country is scandalous, maybe we could all benefit from shopping around a little instead of going by what a few businesses would like us to 'think'. So far as running a business, customers should be valued, not financially taken advantage of.

fred funk }{

muckyhands wrote: »

Simply put, the mark up of products in this country is scandalous, maybe we could all benefit from shopping around a little instead of going by what a few businesses would like us to 'think'. So far as running a business, customers should be valued, not financially taken advantage of.

Do you think he's ripping people off by charging €190?

muckyhands

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Do you think he's ripping people off by charging €190?

IMO I think its a bit much to pay for a few bits of timber and soil etc.. I wouldn't pay it myself but nobody ever said he is ripping people off. If someone is happy to part with the extra cash then fair enough:)

fred funk }{

muckyhands wrote: »

IMO I think its a bit much to pay for a few bits of timber and soil etc.. I wouldn't pay it myself but nobody ever said he is ripping people off. If someone is happy to part with the extra cash then fair enough:)

But you're not just paying for 'a few bits of timber and soil'. You're also paying for delivery, VAT and all the other things listed previously on thread. If you were to get one ton of screened soil delivered yourself, how much would that cost? And I'll ask you the same question that Paddy avoided, how much do you think he should make per item?

dardevle

paddy147 wrote: »

I live in the real world and it doesnt take a genius to see that that kit is over priced on all aspects.Open your eyes up and have even just a quick look around,and you will see for yourself.

again the claim of 'overpriced' without actually backing it up, perhaps you could give us a what you consider to be a reasonable price for this product and then also a breakdown of this price as it would apply to the realities of doing business, things like premises rental, wages, equipment/machinery, insurances,vehicle wear and tear,road tax etc etc....

what you actually need to realise here is that the costs of doing business are not the same as you nickel and diming you way to building a raised bed and while you personally may not be prepared to pay the asking price of the product - this does not equate to calling it 'overpriced' and a 'joke' while providing a link to it, on a public forum (perhaps to the detriment of the business) .



.....

paddy147

dardevle wrote: »

again the claim of 'overpriced' without actually backing it up, perhaps you could give us a what you consider to be a reasonable price for this product and then also a breakdown of this price as it would apply to the realities of doing business, things like premises rental, wages, equipment/machinery, insurances,vehicle wear and tear,road tax etc etc....

what you actually need to realise here is that the costs of doing business are not the same as you nickel and diming you way to building a raised bed and while you personally may not be prepared to pay the asking price of the product - this does not equate to calling it 'overpriced' and a 'joke' while providing a link to it, on a public forum (perhaps to the detriment of the business) .



.....

I have allready stated it,and have told you that the prices include vat too.But you seem to think vat is not included.

Done Deal,various gardening companies and builders providers/yards sell these products at those prices to the public,vat included.

I dont see the point in paying out more and over the odds for something that still requires alot of effort and diy on the customers part to be put together.

If the sleeper bed was put together for you in you,re garden when delievered then it would be worth 190 euro,but the fact that its not makes spending 190 euro on it over the odds and overpriced.

Why anyone would pay more for something is beyond me,buy hey,some people like to throw money away,and still think they got a good deal.Thats not me though,and especially in this current climate.

Keen pricing and competing with other business,es on price,is how to win customers and keep their custom too.


Regards

paddy147

fred funk }{ wrote: »

But you're not just paying for 'a few bits of timber and soil'. You're also paying for delivery, VAT and all the other things listed previously on thread. If you were to get one ton of screened soil delivered yourself, how much would that cost? And I'll ask you the same question that Paddy avoided, how much do you think he should make per item?

Fred,you asked Muckyhands a simple question,and the Mucky answered you back directly.

If you cant or wont accpet an answer,then dont post or ask a question,when you wont accept what the person says.

Muckyhands is just as much entitled to his/her opinion,without you telling them that they are wrong,just because you dont like the reply.

Tazz T

I think the point is why you'd bother spending 190 euro and a lot of time and energy growing maybe 30 euro worth of veg when you could buy at least three month's worth of veg from Lidl for the same price.

fred funk }{

paddy147 wrote: »

Fred,you asked Muckyhands a simple question,and the Mucky answered you back directly.

If you cant or wont accpet an answer,then dont post or ask a question,when you wont accept what the person says.

Muckyhands is just as much entitled to his/her opinion,without you telling them that they are wrong,just because you dont like the reply.

Paddy, your posts make little sense to me. You started this thread stating that its a joke how much this lad was charging for his product. Myself and others have explained some of the expenses involved in running a business but you ignored those points and rabbled on about opinions.
If you had asked if it was a fair price then the thread would have had a different tone but that's not your style paddy. Most threads started by you have an aggressive tone and when you're proved wrong you're not man enough to admit you were wrong.

paddy147

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Paddy, your posts make little sense to me. You started this thread stating that its a joke how much this lad was charging for his product. Myself and others have explained some of the expenses involved in running a business but you ignored those points and rabbled on about opinions.
If you had asked if it was a fair price then the thread would have had a different tone but that's not your style paddy. Most threads started by you have an aggressive tone and when you're proved wrong you're not man enough to admit you were wrong.

Fred,you clearly cannot accept an answer from anyone,unless its what you want or expect to hear.Its very clear to see and read too.

Sonnenblumen

paddy147 wrote: »

Keen pricing and competing with other business,es on price,is how to win customers and keep their custom too.


Regards

You have much first hand experience? If so perhaps you'd give examples.

IMO, price is only one aspect of the proposition and rarely the determining one. But it might be different for 'nickel and dime' business/customer types.

paddy147

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

You have much first hand experience? If so perhaps you'd give examples.

IMO, price is only one aspect of the proposition and rarely the determining one. But it might be different for 'nickel and dime' business/customer types.

Let me ask you Sonnenblumen......how much do you charge a customer for supply only of a new pressure treated sleeper and a ton bag of screened/composted top soil???



You seem to have a "look down you,re nose" attitude towards people that wont pay top dollar,your attitude is that "if its not top dollar then its cheap and crap".And how wrong you are.



You are a fully qualified professional horticulturalist,or are you?????

fred funk }{

Paddy, you were asked several times in this thread how much you thought was an appropriate price for his product. You still haven't given an answer. Your clear lack of business understanding is very obvious.

Let me ask you Sonnenblumen....how much do you charge a customer for a new pressure trested sleeper and a ton bag ot screened/composted top soil???

You seem to have a "look down you,re nose" attitude towards people that wont pay top dollar,your attitude is that "if its not top dollar then its cheap and crap".And how wrong you are.



Oh and you are a fully qualified professional horticulturalist,or are you???

Like most things, you get what you pay for.

paddy147

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Paddy, you were asked several times in this thread how much you thought was an appropriate price for his product. You still haven't given an answer. Your clear lack of business understanding is very obvious.




Like most things, you get what you pay for.

yeah,indeed you get what you pay for when its supply only.

You can pay more or you can pay alot less for the exact same products that does the same thing,its down to whether you like to still have some more money in your back pocket or not.




Let the man "sonnenblumen" answer the question I have asked him about his supply price for a railway sleeper.

And the other horticultural question too.


P.S-My lack of business understand you say???Eh no,far from it,as I have posted about allready.

You need to wake up and cop on to the fact that there quite a few reputable well established companies out there,who can sell and trade at far lower prces and still get plenty of regular and new business and profit,by not over charging for a product,and by keeping a customer happy with the pricing

paddy147

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Paddy, you were asked several times in this thread how much you thought was an appropriate price for his product. You still haven't given an answer. Your clear lack of business understanding is very obvious.




Like most things, you get what you pay for.

Fred Funk,you tell me where you can get these products at a lower price right now then?Post the prices for the individual items,go on,do it.

You like to talk alot about pricing,and vat and delievery costs,but you havent posted a SINGLE PRICE for anything yet.Yoiu have not justified anything you have said or tried to say,all you do is talking on and on,and trying to say/justify that paying a higher price is fine.

You also cant seem to accept an answer to anything that you ask anyone.

Again,if you dont like the answer and are not perpared to accept another persons answer,then why bother asking the person a question??


Why is that you cant or wont post a price and you then will not accept a persons answer,when you ask them a question (referal to how you treated Muckyhands here so far)???????????