Man gets 2 months jail for racial abuse

Phenomenally Phrank

Saw this in the news today; Basically, a 61 year old man was sentenced to 2 months jail for telling a black electoral candidate that he was 'sick of black people' and more.

Ok, the way I see this: Yes, Mr Walsh was probably an asshole, and racial abuse is pretty nasty, but does he really need to go to jail for 2 months? over a couple of phrases? I see this as an attack on free speech, regardless of what was said. It seems that over here and in Europe, its "free speech for all, so long as noone gets offended":rolleyes:

Absurdum

what a load of bollox

Chuck Stone

I think being a plonker is punishment enough for that man.

Free speech has limits. Should I have the freedom to shout 'I HAVE A BOMB' on a plane and expect to have my 'right to free speech' respected?

Truley

It was a nasty thing to say but doesn't warrant a two month sentence or any sentence at all for that matter. If that's the case can someone be sentenced for saying they hate fat/ugly/poor people etc ? Ridiculous.

reprazant

Phenomenally Phrank wrote: »

Saw this in the news today; Basically, a 61 year old man was sentenced to 2 months jail for telling a black electoral candidate that he was 'sick of black people' and more.

Ok, the way I see this: Yes, Mr Walsh was probably an asshole, and racial abuse is pretty nasty, but does he really need to go to jail for 2 months? over a couple of phrases? I see this as an attack on free speech, regardless of what was said. It seems that over here and in Europe, its "free speech for all, so long as noone gets offended":rolleyes:

So, one tells him he hates all black people and his mate tells him to leave the area or he will get a bullet in the head but this all falls under 'free speech'?

OMG! You got offended by racial abuse and death threats? Wimp!

edgecutter

Depends on what 'more' he said, but honestly I don't get the whole PC world we are living in. I was in USA a year ago and I was called a white b#####d and a couple of other things when I refused to give a black person money. I was shocked, but I didn't call the police, as I knew that I would be laughed out as racial abuse cannot happen to white people. However, racial abuse is wrong and it can be hurtful to people.

AnonoBoy

They also threatened to shoot him.

smash

He denied this, insisting he only told Maphoso, 43, to “f*** off”, because he disliked all politicians.
...

“He said black people make him sick. 'All you f******g foreigners make me sick'.”

Sounds like he didn't actually say 'black people'. I wonder if when he was talking about politicians and said "you people" - that's always taken up wrong!

Artur Foden

Why do people assume we have absolute freedom of speech? You have it up to a point but racist and threatening remarks are illegal. 2 months I think is fair enough really for the crime, but next week a murderer will get away with 4 or 5 years where is should be 50 or something.

Manach

The limits of free speach seem to shouting "fire" in a cinema and thus causing a panic. So unless the speach actually caused someone to be afraid, hence technically an assault, then it should be allowed.

Absurdum

AnonoBoy wrote: »

They also threatened to shoot him.

no, a neighbour of the accused did

CreepingDeath

That's just ridiculous to jail your man.
It was outside his own home and all.

That's the bloody EU and Irish government thinking that they can cure social and integration problems with legislation.
Jail people who don't fall in line and pretend we're all one happy family.

I'm disgusted.

ejmaztec

http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/black-people-make-him-sick-1.1153614

Ireland - An Irishman has been sentenced to two months in jail by the Dublin District Court for hurling racial abuse at a South African election candidate, according to media reports.


Michael Walsh, 61, was sentenced on Friday after he told independent candidate Patrick Maphoso to get off his street and that “black people made him sick”, Ireland's Herald newspaper reported.


He denied this, insisting he only told Maphoso, 43, to “f*** off”, because he disliked all politicians.


The Dublin court heard he made his remarks at the same time that a neighbour, 28-year-old Michael Lawlor allegedly threatened to shoot Maphoso. Lawlor has since died.


Walsh was convicted of using threatening, abusive and insulting behaviour outside his home in North Circular Road, Dublin on April 28, 2009. He had pleaded not guilty to the charge, the Herald reported.


Maphoso told Sapa in May he was an anti-apartheid activist. He laid a criminal charge against the two men in terms of the Incitement of Hatred Act.


He had been in Ireland since 2001 and was running a security company. He was still a South African citizen and an “Irish resident”. The country's laws allowed foreigners to campaign for local council seats, he said.


In an interview with Metro Eireann newspaper, he said one of the two told him black people made him sick.


“One of them said to me, if I 'don't want a bullet on my head' then I 'must leave the area',” he was quoted as saying.


“He said black people make him sick. 'All you f******g foreigners make me sick'.”


Maphoso ran as an independent candidate and failed to win a seat on the council. He said the threat prevented him from campaigning properly. - Sapa

reprazant

Absurdum wrote: »

no, a neighbour of the accused did

He was talking to the two of them as the same time.

The Dublin court heard he made his remarks at the same time that a neighbour, 28-year-old Michael Lawlor allegedly threatened to shoot Maphoso.

So, one says that he hates all foreigners and the other tells him to leave the area or he will kill him.

FREE SPEECH!

MagicMarker

Artur Foden wrote: »

Why do people assume we have absolute freedom of speech? You have it up to a point but racist and threatening remarks are illegal. 2 months I think is fair enough really for the crime, but next week a murderer will get away with 4 or 5 years where is should be 50 or something.

Racist remarks are illegal? Can you provide a link to back that up?

smash

reprazant wrote: »

So, one says that he hates all foreigners and the other tells him to leave the area or he will kill him.

Yet the one who threatened murder didn't get a jail sentence.

Absurdum

Walsh said: "Bertie Ahern and Cyprian Brady came 15 minutes before that and they were told to f*** off."

"Fine Gael and Sinn Fein were told the same thing. I have no time for politicians, black, white, yellow or anything. I was in no way racial to that man, he was treated in the same way as any other politician on the street, but this man wouldn't have that. He went out of his way to have a confrontation".

Walsh insisted he was inside his property when he spoke to Mr Maphoso.

sounds like mr wannabe politician doesn't like equal treatment!

Absurdum

smash wrote: »

Yet the one who threatened murder didn't get a jail sentence.

because he's dead lol

sensibleken

sounds fair and reasonable

smash

Absurdum wrote: »

because he's dead lol

Oh yea...

old hippy

2 months is nothing. I'd have all the racists locked up or deported. Who wants filth like that amongst decent people?

CAPSLOCK2

joke

smash

old hippy wrote: »

2 months is nothing. I'd have all the racists locked up or deported. Who wants filth like that amongst decent people?

Fitting username!

Artur Foden

Racist remarks are illegal? Can you provide a link to back that up?

From wikipedia,

The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989, proscribes words or behaviours which are "threatening, abusive or insulting and are intended or, having regard to all the circumstances, are likely to stir up hatred" against "a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation."

You are simply not allowed to be openly racist. and rightly so.



edit: also here are the penalties if you have been found guilty of hate speech

A person guilty of an offence under section 2 , 3 or 4 shall be liable—

(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding £10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years or to both.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/sec0001.html#sec1

old hippy

smash wrote: »

Fitting username!

Your point is?

Wertz

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I think being a plonker is punishment enough for that man.

Free speech has limits. Should I have the freedom to shout 'I HAVE A BOMB' on a plane and expect to have my 'right to free speech' respected?

Shouting that you have a bomb is an implied threat to the safety of others and the aircraft...saying you're sick of black people is an opinion and in this man's case such a sentence is a load of reactionary bollocks.
He didn't threaten the man, he didn't assault him, he an expressed an opinion.
I'm sick of junk mail...if I say the same to the guy stuffing it in my letterbox do I deserve jail?

smash

Artur Foden wrote: »

From wikipedia,

The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989, proscribes words or behaviours which are "threatening, abusive or insulting and are intended or, having regard to all the circumstances, are likely to stir up hatred" against "a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation."

You are simply not allowed to be openly racist. and rightly so.

"(b) to use words, behave or display written material—

(i) in any place other than inside a private residence, or

(ii) inside a private residence so that the words, behaviour or material are heard or seen by persons outside the residence"

The highlighted point is what got him really.

Wertz wrote: »

I'm sick of junk mail...if I say the same to the guy stuffing it in my letterbox do I deserve jail?

Only if he's black.

Absurdum

Wertz wrote: »

I'm sick of junk mail...if I say the same to the guy stuffing it in my letterbox do I deserve jail?

only if the junk mail is black

edit: smash smashed and grabbed my comment

old hippy

Wertz wrote: »

I'm sick of junk mail...if I say the same to the guy stuffing it in my letterbox do I deserve jail?

Comparing racism to junkmail is pretty dim.

batman_oh

Whatever about the racism aspect, what sickens me is that thousands of dirty scum are robbing peoples cars, assaulting people, dealing drugs etc everywhere and being caught every day and getting no jail sentence worth speaking of. Seems like being a knacker and commiting hundreds of crimes is ok because they are poor and underpriveleged

FetchTheGin

I hope Chris Rock doesn't come to Ireland...


...Oh wait.

smash

old hippy wrote: »

Comparing racism to junkmail is pretty dim.

not if you consider racism to be junktalk.

mconigol

Stupid. PC gone mad as per usual. I'm sick of the judiciary.

Nforce

Just realised how racist I've been to all those jehovah witness's who've come knocking on my door over the years!:eek:

JJJJNR

This is great, he deserved the sentence!

Wertz

old hippy wrote: »

Comparing racism to junkmail is pretty dim.

Is it? Someone rapping your door or someone stuffing sh*t in it you don't want are very comparable IMO... guy said he was sick of politicians cold calling, in this case a black guy....he tells him to f*ck off which is his right IMO and he gets charged for incitment to hatred or something? F*ckin bullsh*t tbh, but you're freely entitled to your opinion on it.
If he threatened physical abuse or violence then fine, I have no problem with someone being cited for that, but not for saying he's sick of any one group of people (which is easily picked up as being racist or whatever).

I'm racist toward FF, two of them were told to f*ck off when they came around my door in feb...I didn't hear another word about it.

old hippy

batman_oh wrote: »

Whatever about the racism aspect, what sickens me is that thousands of dirty scum are robbing peoples cars, assaulting people, dealing drugs etc everywhere and being caught every day and getting no jail sentence worth speaking of. Seems like being a knacker and commiting hundreds of crimes is ok because they are poor and underpriveleged

When you're marginalised, treated & regarded as scum or knackers, it's hardly surprising you eventually conform to peoples expectations of you, is it?

up for anything

The Dublin court heard he made his remarks at the same time that a neighbour, 28-year-old Michael Lawlor allegedly threatened to shoot Maphoso. Lawlor has since died.

At 28 he is very young to have died. It would be interesting to know if he died by the sword/gun or perhaps an old fashioned bout of apoplexy on his doorstep brought on by visiting politicians.

old hippy

smash wrote: »

not if you consider racism to be junktalk.

I hate junkmail but it's never assaulted me, called me or my loved ones names. There's a difference.

Racism has a long and deeply unpleasant history. Not so easy just to shake off.

old hippy

mconigol wrote: »

Stupid. PC gone mad as per usual. I'm sick of the judiciary.

I always love this quote from Fintan O'Toole

We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug.

28064212

Wertz wrote: »

Is it? Someone rapping your door or someone stuffing sh*t in it you don't want are very comparable IMO... guy said he was sick of politicians cold calling, in this case a black guy....he tells him to f*ck off which is his right IMO and he gets charged for incitment to hatred or something?

That is not what he was convicted for, that is his version of the events. In the court's opinion, that is not what happened, he told him that "black people made him sick". Also, they approached Maphoso, the candidate had not knocked on their door

smash

old hippy wrote: »

I hate junkmail but it's never assaulted me, called me or my loved ones names. There's a difference.

Do you read it?

28064212 wrote: »

That is not what he was convicted for, that is his version of the events. In the court's opinion, that is not what happened

If the court had believed him then no doubt they'd be branded as racist.

CreepingDeath

28064212 wrote: »

he told him that "black people made him sick".

They could be a carrier for a variety of tropical diseases.
Also Africans have a much higher infection rate of HIV.
So, he could be expressing a medical opinion.

mconigol

old hippy wrote: »

I always love this quote from Fintan O'Toole

We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug.

Fintan O'Toole :rolleyes:

Whether some like it or not people still have the right to express their own opinions.

cosmicfart

Bet ur man comes out of prison a reformed character!! as we all know these rehabilitation places focus on getting to root of the problem and crime!! Having said that he will probably come out with a degree in selling drugs and how to be a skanger

28064212

CreepingDeath wrote: »

They could be a carrier for a variety of tropical diseases.
Also Africans have a much higher infection rate of HIV.
So, he could be expressing a medical opinion.

Right, and the guy holding the bloody knife standing over the corpse could have been just cutting vegetables when the knife became demonically possessed. Fortunately, our courts are based on a system of "beyond reasonable doubt"

28064212

smash wrote: »

If the court had believed him then no doubt they'd be branded as racist.

Lol, WTF? So now every time the court finds against a white person, it's because they're in fear of being branded racist?

The court heard both sides of the story and made a decision based on the evidence available. How exactly do you think this case should have proceeded?

SV

Delighted for him.

tfitzgerald

old hippy wrote: »

2 months is nothing. I'd have all the racists locked up or deported. Who wants filth like that amongst decent people?

Funny I'd have all the non nationals rounded up and deported . If this south African /African irish bloke can't take a bit of criticism he should not be running for public office

smash

28064212 wrote: »

Lol, WTF? So now every time the court finds against a white person, it's because they're in fear of being branded racist?

The court heard both sides of the story and made a decision based on the evidence available. How exactly do you think this case should have proceeded?

Well he says he never said "black people". And he's not the one who made any threats. Guess you had to be there.

StephenHendry

ejmaztec wrote: »

http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/black-people-make-him-sick-1.1153614

the fact that he said that 'all black people make him sick' is where he over stepped the mark, this is racist remark imo. if he just told him to f*** off then it implies that he doesn' have time for any politicians