Am I mad buying a petrol car?

Elessar

I'm buying a new VW Golf 1.2 TSI in January but everyone and his wife thinks I'm mad buying petrol instead of diesel.

The main reasons I'm going petrol are:

A) It's 2k cheaper to buy
I only cover about 6-7000 miles a year
c) The DPF risks clogging up at such low mileage

However it's likely petrol will be going up again in the budget, and subsequently every budget from now on....making it more and more expensive to fill the tank and affecting resale/trade in majorly. Diesel may not go up as much or at all - the haulage industry would likely kick up a fuss and force the governments hand? Making petrol the scapegoat...

I plan on keeping the car for 3 or 4 years and if I went diesel trade in would be much better as everyone is now only buying diesel cars. But would it be worth the difference if I went diesel over petrol?

OldmanMondeo

For the miles you are doing, no you not mad, in-fact you have the correct car for your needs. I drive a diesel and once you hit traffic the MPG drops. If and when we have to head into a city centre, we take her petrol car, works out cheaper.

Henry Ford III

I think the petrol engine will suit you fine.

Eric Cartman

your the sane one , people telling you to get a diesel for that mileage are the mad ones

SouperComputer

I would guess these people haven't done the math for themselves and are just regurgitating what they've heard. The usual "barstool wisdom" lark.

You need to crack open Excel (or whatever) and compare costs over the three years, that's your answer. Off the cuff, I would say a petrol is probably a better option based on what you have posted.

vectra

I think diesel would be a better and easier car to sell when the time comes. Would also hold its value better.

166man

Elessar wrote: »

I'm buying a new VW Golf 1.2 TSI in January but everyone and his wife thinks I'm mad buying petrol instead of diesel.

The main reasons I'm going petrol are:

A) It's 2k cheaper to buy
I only cover about 6-7000 miles a year
c) The DPF risks clogging up at such low mileage

However it's likely petrol will be going up again in the budget, and subsequently every budget from now on....making it more and more expensive to fill the tank and affecting resale/trade in majorly. Diesel may not go up as much or at all - the haulage industry would likely kick up a fuss and force the governments hand? Making petrol the scapegoat...

I plan on keeping the car for 3 or 4 years and if I went diesel trade in would be much better as everyone is now only buying diesel cars. But would it be worth the difference if I went diesel over petrol?

Definitely not mad to buy petrol, 2k is alot of money for a few more mpg and all problems associated with modern diesels. I'm sure both fuels and road tax are both going up in the budget regardless so doubt resale will be affected that badly..

ITS_A_BADGER

"barstool wisdom" i like that term

vectra

vectra wrote: »

I think diesel would be a better and easier car to sell when the time comes. Would also hold its value better.

The petrol is €2000 cheaper initially, that's a decent head start though.

Diesel are fine if you're doing the miles, if I was doing 6000/7000 miles a year I wouldn't consider one in a fit.

vectra

RoverJames wrote: »

The petrol is €2000 cheaper initially, that's a decent head start though.

Diesel are fine if you're doing the miles, if I was doing 6000/7000 miles a year I wouldn't consider one in a fit.

Why not?

I have 19k on my one in the 1sy 12 months. From here in I will probably put another 6k on it over the next 12 months.
I would buy another one

vectra

vectra wrote: »

Why not?........

- I prefer petrol cars for a start
- diesels cost more to buy 2nd hand compared to petrols
- if doing only 100/120 miles a week I would think a lot of the spins would be short, the major advantage of diesel is better mpg, if you're not doing the miles you don't get the benefit.
- diesels take longer to heat up, not good on short spins

I may be moving home, job etc soon and if so I'll be doing 25/30k miles a year so I'll happily buy a diesel if it comes off.

I've nothing against them at all but if you don't do the miles why buy one ?

Poulgorm

The trade-in value of diesels may fall when the public become aware of the high maintenance costs associated with them when they go over 100,000km

200motels

RoverJames wrote: »

- I prefer petrol cars for a start
- diesels cost more to buy 2nd hand compared to petrols
- if doing only 100/120 miles a week I would think a lot of the spins would be short, the major advantage of diesel is better mpg, if you're not doing the miles you don't get the benefit.
- diesels take longer to heat up, not good on short spins

I may be moving home, job etc soon and if so I'll be doing 25/30k miles a year so I'll happily buy a diesel if it comes off.

I've nothing against them at all but if you don't do the miles why buy one ?

I personally don't like deisels and I don't do the miles and if I did I still wouldn't get one. The best engine is still by a long way a petrol engine.

200motels

200motels wrote: »

I personally don't like deisels and I don't do the miles and if I did I still wouldn't get one. The best engine is still by a long way a petrol engine.

Fair play, if I'm doing 25/30k miles a year though I'll be wanting 45 ish mpg in a nice big comfy yoke so 'twill be daysul for me.

R.O.R

Poulgorm wrote: »

The trade-in value of diesels may fall when the public become aware of the high maintenance costs associated with them when they go over 100,000km

Maintenance costs go sky high when diesels go over 100,000km? Thanks for telling me, must relay this gem of wisdom to those in the office tomorrow. Petrol cars are obviously much cheaper to maintain? /Sarcasm


In something like a Golf, I don't think the resale value of a low emission, low mileage petrol engine will be too bad in comparison to a Diesel.

pippip

I've noticed the price gap between diesel and petrol at the pumps closing.

Will be interesting to see if this increasing demand for diesel will play any part in the next budget.

Tigger

RoverJames wrote: »

The petrol is €2000 cheaper initially, that's a decent head start though.

Diesel are fine if you're doing the miles, if I was doing 6000/7000 miles a year I wouldn't consider one in a fit.

but you wouldn't buy new anyway right?

Tigger

buy a 2 year old petrol
thats my advice you'll loose less money and you'll have the right car for you

Gary ITR

Diesel is what the Devil uses to keep hell warm.

For your mileage petrol is the way to go. Generally speaking you won't see the benefits of a fiesel unless you're doing big mileage (25k+)

superchip

if you find out the mpg you could work out how much a year it will cost to do the same millage in both.factor in road tax and you have your answer

yawnstretch

If I could afford a new car I'd buy EV.

Fossil fuel Neanderthals!

Tigger

Tigger wrote: »

but you wouldn't buy new anyway right?

Nope
Buying new is a different kettle of fish, if the diesel model was cheaper the case for the petrol model is much harder to make

vectra

Gary ITR wrote: »

Diesel is what the Devil uses to keep hell warm.

For your mileage petrol is the way to go. Generally speaking you won't see the benefits of a fiesel unless you're doing big mileage (25k+)

Can never understand anyone saying this..
Petrol = Filling weekly
Diesel = Filling bi-weekly?
Diesel IS more economical to a petrol counterpart.
No if's and no but's

How many of each have you owned?

RoverJames wrote: »

Nope
Buying new is a different kettle of fish, if the diesel model was cheaper the case for the petrol model is much harder to make

In my case,
The petrol version was a good bit dearer.
What hope would i have of selling it after 2 years?
I would have to raffle it off to shift it

OldmanMondeo

200motels wrote: »

I personally don't like deisels and I don't do the miles and if I did I still wouldn't get one. The best engine is still by a long way a petrol engine.

Believe me, I used to drive petrols, about 80 miles per day, as soon as I changed to Diesel I found I had more money in my pocket at the end of the week. If you doing decent motorway miles, I don't mean M50 miles, a diesel will top a petrol no problem. At motorway speeds you can over take quicker in a diesel you run at much lower revs, and the diesel engine noise disappears quickley.
With saying that I would go back to a petrol, but only if I ever get to seriously reduce my miles, I am doing around 120 per day.

Gary ITR

vectra wrote: »

Can never understand anyone saying this..
Petrol = Filling weekly
Diesel = Filling bi-weekly?
Diesel IS more economical to a petrol counterpart.
No if's and no but's

How many of each have you owned?

Take into account the extra purchase cost of 2k in this case, with that low mileage it points to short trips, a diesel will find it hard to compete with a 1.2 petrol on short runs. You also already know the story with DPF and EGR when modern diesels do small mileage, add to that a possible case of DMF failure

I've had many of each, In fact I was driving a diesel Laguna around Dublin City as a Sales Rep, feckin thing guzzled fuel due to the fact it was started and stopped 12-20 times a day. For low mileage if you want economy a small engined petrol is your man.

vectra wrote: »

In my case,
The petrol version was a good bit dearer.
What hope would i have of selling it after 2 years?
I would have to raffle it off to shift it

Your case is slightly different in that you're comparing the top of the line models. Of course the petrol VRs is going to be dearer. Lafors from here shifted his VRs 2 days after listing it for his full asking so you're off the mark there too.

EPM

My diesel drinks a LOT more than my last petrol around town (which I'm assuming the majority of your mileage will be). And takes an age to heat up too.

unkel

2k is a lot of a difference up front, especially if the car is bought with a loan

At 40MPG, the petrol would cost about €400 more per year in fuel than a 60MPG diesel equivalent...

Edit: the official average consumption for a 1.2TSI is 51MPG and for the 1.6D it is 63MPG, and the difference is probably smaller than that in mainly town traffic, so the savings in fuel would be €200 per year tops in real life...

Saab Ed

Just one little thing OP. With so many people around using the the type of bar stool logic that you're talking about, will anybody want your Golf second hand in 3/4/5 years time. Will they all want a diesel one. Will your petrol Golf take a bigger hammering (unjustly) when it comes to moving it on/trading it in. Just a thought

Eric Cartman

Saab Ed wrote: »

Just one little thing OP. With so many people around using the the type of bar stool logic that you're talking about, will anybody want your Golf second hand in 3/4/5 years time. Will they all want a diesel one. Will your petrol Golf take a bigger hammering (unjustly) when it comes to moving it on/trading it in. Just a thought

if people keep going well end up like the north with diesel more expensive, as soon as diesel goes 1 cent over petrol suddenly small petrol engined cars will be attractive again

wiger toods

sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but my question is would there be any major difference in mpg between a 1.8/2.0 petrol/diesel car. Doing roughly the same milage as the OP?

vectra

wiger toods wrote: »

sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but my question is would there be any major difference in mpg between a 1.8/2.0 petrol/diesel car. Doing roughly the same milage as the OP?

I don't know how people can say Petrol is better around town with stop start driving than diesel
I had a 1.8 mondeo.
That sort of driving is what i mainly do.. I often put 30 euro for 70 miles around town in that car.
I now have a 2.0 diesel with a lot more power than the mondeo and there is no way i use anywhere near that amount doing the same driving.

heate

vectra wrote: »

wiger toods wrote: »

sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but my question is would there be any major difference in mpg between a 1.8/2.0 petrol/diesel car. Doing roughly the same milage as the OP?

I don't know how people can say Petrol is better around town with stop start driving than diesel
I had a 1.8 mondeo.
That sort of driving is what i mainly do.. I often put 30 euro for 70 miles around town in that car.
I now have a 2.0 diesel with a lot more power than the mondeo and there is no way i use anywhere near that amount doing the same driving.

That's 17.85l/100km were you racing :P

vectra

vectra wrote: »

I don't know how people can say Petrol is better around town with stop start driving than diesel..........

I'd agree with you there, when I had the Mondeo 2.0 diesel I had a week off and went absolutely nowhere in it except in and out of town and down to the gym etc, it returned 35mpg for me doing that, I've never had a petrol car that returned over 40mpg for me regardless of how I drove it.

kirving

On one hand, we have almost every genius in the country suddenly deciding that diesel in the only way to go, and that only gob****es would buy a petrol car these days.

On the other hand, the second a "modern diesel" is mentioned, all we hear about are guaranteed DMF's, DPF's, Injector problems, and big bills, and why you need to be doing crazy mileage to justify a diesel. They don't automatically go kaput once they're off the motorway.


There has to be a balance in there somewhere!

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

The petrol is €2000 cheaper initially, that's a decent head start though.

Diesel are fine if you're doing the miles, if I was doing 6000/7000 miles a year I wouldn't consider one in a fit.

RoverJames wrote: »

- I prefer petrol cars for a start
- diesels cost more to buy 2nd hand compared to petrols
- if doing only 100/120 miles a week I would think a lot of the spins would be short, the major advantage of diesel is better mpg, if you're not doing the miles you don't get the benefit.
- diesels take longer to heat up, not good on short spins

I may be moving home, job etc soon and if so I'll be doing 25/30k miles a year so I'll happily buy a diesel if it comes off.

I've nothing against them at all but if you don't do the miles why buy one ?

Kevin Irving wrote: »

On one hand, we have almost every genius in the country suddenly deciding that diesel in the only way to go, and that only gob****es would buy a petrol car these days.

On the other hand, the second a "modern diesel" is mentioned.........


There has to be a balance in there somewhere!

indeed :pac: if you do the miles get a diesel.

vectra

heate wrote: »

That's 17.85l/100km were you racing :P

No,
Constant stop/start trips and being stuck in traffic.
Exactly the same scenario as I drive today

vectra

Kevin Irving wrote: »

On one hand, we have almost every genius in the country suddenly deciding that diesel in the only way to go, and that only gob****es would buy a petrol car these days.

On the other hand, the second a "modern diesel" is mentioned, all we hear about are guaranteed DMF's, DPF's, Injector problems, and big bills, and why you need to be doing crazy mileage to justify a diesel. They don't automatically go kaput once they're off the motorway.


There has to be a balance in there somewhere!

And if you had a third hand then people would suddenly realise they only hear of the ones that give trouble.
You never hear about the good ones.
I have 19k on my car.
Loads of Stop start driving around town
No DMF issues
No DPF Lights or problems.

Nothing
Just sit in and drive. ( Though I do give it some when I go out of town to "clear it" :P )

touts

Are you buying new. If you are then that is the more stupid decision. You lose 2-3K the moment you drive out the gate of the Garage.

I have been around garages recently and second hand diesels are hard to find but they are desperate to sell the petrol cars. One guy told me he measures the time diesel cars stay on the lot in days and petrol cars in months. I do high milage so I was looking for diesel but some dealers practically begged me to take a petrol version. You will pick up a 09-10 reg petrol car in good condition and low milage for 3-4K less than the diesel version with higher milage. I suggest you go in asking for diesel and then intimate you would consider petrol if the price was good enough to compensate for the higher fuel, tax etc etc. Make it look like they have to convince you to take petrol and you'll get a great deal.

EPM

vectra wrote: »

And if you had a third hand then people would suddenly realise they only hear of the ones that give trouble.
You never hear about the good ones.
I have 19k on my car.
Loads of Stop start driving around town
No DMF issues
No DPF Lights or problems.

Nothing
Just sit in and drive. ( Though I do give it some when I go out of town to "clear it" :P )

And if there was an issue at 19k km I'd be suprised.

Your car is new, give it another year or two and there will be adverse affects as a result of your use. It might not happen to you but stop start journeys are slowly shortening the DPF's life.

As for the DMF - I just factored the cost of a replacement into things when buying:pac:

vectra

EPM wrote: »

And if there was an issue at 19k km I'd be suprised.

Your car is new, give it another year or two and there will be adverse affects as a result of your use. It might not happen to you but stop start journeys are slowly shortening the DPF's life.

As for the DMF - I just factored the cost of a replacement into things when buying:pac:

Neighbour of mine has had a diesel and had to take it back and buy a petrol one after just over one year old. He stop starts as well and had 3 dpf's changed.
Less mileage then mine I may add.

I will say it again,
You will only ever hear of the ones that give trouble.

Similar to years ago when the MK1 and MK2 escorts etc were the norm.

You would always hear of the troublesome one. But back then it would be called a "Monday Morning car"

vectra

vectra wrote: »

..........That sort of driving is what i mainly do.. I often put 30 euro for 70 miles around town in that car.............

that's about 15mpg if petrol was €1.30/litre back then.

Over the same sort of driving that the Mondeo diesel I had returned 35mpg the ZT does 12mpg

Casati

If I was in the OP's shoes I would buy the petrol- as that 1.2 engine is highly efficient and as Unkel worked out will cost maybe 200 quid a year more to run- and maybe 50 quid more a year on tax. It will however be a nicer car to drive around town, its a sweet 105 bhp versus 90 bhp in the diesel, though the torque is a lot lower.

If you buy the 1.6 diesel, buyers will be lining up to take the car with such low miles on it in 3/4 years time, and I'd estimate that it would be worth min 1500/ 2000 more than the petrol so it wont be a bad purchase. DPF/ DMF/ Injectors are unlikely to bother the OP with such low miles

With most cars Golf size and larger you would be mad to buy the petrol options as the equivalent petrol is generally down on power and the difference in economy in real life is huge, even for city centre driving e.g comparing the best selling Megane in 1.6 petrol versus 1.5 dci, the petrol is a complete dog as it will cost 50% more to fuel, plus 350 a year in tax, and possibly higher insurance too. For that reason they are impossible to seel already.

Insignia 1.6 versus 2.0 130 cdti/ Quasqai 1.6 versus 1.5 dci/ 320i versus 320d/ Mondeo 1.6 versus 1.6 TDCI, Auris 1.4 versus 1.4 D4D, are good examples of popular cars that can only be bought logically in diesel format as the small extra cost to purchase will be absorbed by higher tax and much higher consumption, while depreciation on these petrols will make overall cost to own & replace in 3/4/5 years prohibitive

VW TSI engines are putting it up to the diesels, as are the Fiat Multijet's and the Ford Ecoboost look interesting too - in another 2 years I think more people will be back buying more small capacity petrol's as a result

vectra

RoverJames wrote: »

that's about 15mpg if petrol was €1.30/litre back then.

Over the same sort of driving that the Mondeo diesel I had returned 35mpg the ZT does 12mpg

The way I saw it was the choke never got turned off (or rarely)
Only on a longer run would it return better mpg.

TheZ

What has killed petrol for lots of people is not only annual motor tax but if you use car for work and are self employed - emissions limits for tax write off. I think similar applies for BIK rules.

It can mean paying over 2k a year more tax which people won't generally do

MidlandsM

Poulgorm wrote: »

The trade-in value of diesels may fall when the public become aware of the high maintenance costs associated with them when they go over 100,000km

this will be unlikely as the average joe only see's one thing every week, his/her weekly fuel bill/cost at the pumps.....;)

Gary ITR

vectra wrote: »

I will say it again,
You will only ever hear of the ones that give trouble.

Sorry dude but that's a very blind and delusional statement to make. It's the sheer volume of DPF failures that you need to take into account

Victor Meldrew

Tigger wrote: »

buy a 2 year old petrol
thats my advice you'll loose less money and you'll have the right car for you

Or buy a 4 year old, low mileage Japanese petrol car. Road tax will be higher, as will fuel bills, but it will run forever...

TheZ

TheZ wrote: »

What has killed petrol for lots of people is not only annual motor tax but if you use car for work and are self employed - emissions limits for tax write off. I think similar applies for BIK rules.

It can mean paying over 2k a year more tax which people won't generally do

If you use car for work and are self employed the emissions are immaterial unless it's a compnay car.

R.O.R

RoverJames wrote: »

If you use car for work and are self employed the emissions are immaterial unless it's a compnay car.

If the emissions are under 156g, you can reclaim 20% of the VAT on vehicle purchase or finance costs, as long as at least 65% of the mileage is for business use.

TheZ

RoverJames wrote: »

If you use car for work and are self employed the emissions are immaterial unless it's a compnay car.

That is not true

Wear and tear is an annual capital allowance to cover the depreciation in the value of the car. For cars purchased on or after
4 December 2002 the wear and tear is calculated on the actual cost of the vehicle to the individual on a “straight line” basis
over 8 years, i.e. 12.5% of the cost of the vehicle is allowed for each of the 8 years. (Only the portion of
wear and tear that is applicable to the business use of the car is allowable. The “business” portion is calculated by reference
to the business kilometre travel over the total kilometre travel for the period.
The wear and tear allowance will not be fully allowed for tax purposes where a car purchased, costing in excess of a maximum
cost limit, is used. In that case the wear and tear allowance must be scaled back by reference to the cost limit figure.
Below are the maximum cost limits in respect of cars.

Cars purchased on or after 1 July 2008

A revised scheme of wear and tear allowances, for cars purchased on or after 1 July 2008, has been introduced. With effect from 1
July 2008, cars are categorised by reference to CO2 emissions (with the emission bands being broadly consistent with the new VRT
system), as follows:

Vehicle Category Category A/B/C Vehicles Category D/E Vehicles Category F/G Vehicles
CO2 Emissions 0-155 g/km 156-190 g/km 191 g/km +

Allowable Wear &
Tear

Allowed, subject to a limit of
€24,000 regardless of the cost
of the car
Allowed, subject to a car
cost limit of €12,000 or
50% of the cost of the car,
if lower.
Cars in Category F/G will not
qualify for Wear & Tear Allowances

#

www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/.../claim-car-expenses-capital-allowances.pd...

R.O.R

R.O.R wrote: »

If the emissions are under 156g, you can reclaim 20% of the VAT on vehicle purchase or finance costs, as long as at least 65% of the mileage is for business use.

TheZ wrote: »

That is not true

...........

True enough, most self employed folk who use there car for business use though who don't have it as an actual company vehicle would be just using mileage expense claims as not many would clock up 65% of the cars mileage for business use.

The amount that don't wouldn't be responsible for the petrol to diesel shift.