Usefulness of my degree

I've just started my 1st year studying Commerce in UCD and from reading a lot of comments on here im beginning to wonder about its usefulness.

Just curious as to what people's opinions are on this

Eoin

You'd need to tell us what work you want to do as a start

Mr. Loverman

There are many reasons why an education in itself is a good idea, but from a purely career perspective many employers require you to have a degree. Also, some countries such as China and Japan won't let you work there without a degree. (Who knows what your future will hold!)

It is also a lot easier to change career by getting a masters or postgrad in that area than it is without such an education.

Get an education, it is worth it.

LimeFruitGum

I would think that a Commerce/Business Studies degree is relatively versatile. Anyway, chances are you'll do some postgrad or further professional qualification (e.g. PMP, Prince 2, IMI, ACCA) afterwards, depending on where you end up working, or where you want to direct your career.

Cheers for the replies, was looking into doing something in banking/investment banking/trading.

Nolanger

It's better than most degrees offered in this country.

strokemyclover

Regardless of what job you go for, some employers use the lack of a degree against you when you come looking for a raise.

I know one guy who didn't have a degree in a company I used to work in. He did his work to a similar standard to everyone else on the team, acquired relevent qualifications needed for the job and was still turned down when he asked for a raise. Meanwhile everyone else on the team who had degrees got raises on an annual basis while he was left on the same salary he started with 2 years on. Disgraceful.

doolox

...he probably cannot move easily to another job while the others, with degrees, can.

Its all about the power to leverage more money from a given situation, those with the power to move or quit will command more money than those in a captive situation.

strokemyclover

strokemyclover wrote: »

Regardless of what job you go for, some employers use the lack of a degree against you when you come looking for a raise.

I know one guy who didn't have a degree in a company I used to work in. He did his work to a similar standard to everyone else on the team, acquired relevent qualifications needed for the job and was still turned down when he asked for a raise. Meanwhile everyone else on the team who had degrees got raises on an annual basis while he was left on the same salary he started with 2 years on. Disgraceful.

Why is it disgraceful? He doesn't have a degree. The whole point of a degree is that it gets you promoted faster and gives you opportunities you wouldn't have otherwise. Why do you think people do degrees, for the fun of it? It would have been unfair if he did get the same money as everyone else on the team, given that he was far less qualified. We're not talking about some silly cert, we're talking three or four years of study.

Eoin

Sometimes a degree doesn't make all that much difference in how valuable / productive you are. Just having a degree should not automatically mean you're worth more.

Mr. Loverman

The smartest, most efficient person I ever worked with was a first year drop out.

I have worked with many useless people who had degrees or masters or whatever.

And these days college is so dumbed down I don't think an education means you are in any way smart.

But having an education is certainly better than not having an education. Even from a strategic point of view, there are many dumbasses out there who cannot think independently, so they think people with degrees are better than those without a degree. You never know when you'll run into these people (quite likely in an interview!) so in my opinion it is better to play it safe and get an education.

On a personal level I love learning and believe in life long education.

Eoin

Eoin wrote: »

Sometimes a degree doesn't make all that much difference in how valuable / productive you are. Just having a degree should not automatically mean you're worth more.

That's Celtic Tiger thinking, IMO. When you have a bunch of people who are similar, the degree is often the deciding factor when it comes to choosing someone for a job or a promotion. The old 'it's just a piece of paper' thinking is insulting to people who have worked hard to obtain a relevant qualification to help them move forward with their career. Productivity can be hard to measure, qualifications make it much easier for employers to decide.

I have colleagues who get paid over £4 an hour more than I do for having a postgrad cert which takes only 6 months to complete. They get paid more because the course is tough and they learn a lot (a degree is already a requirement for the job). Should I throw a hissy fit because I think I'm just as good at the job as they are and it's not fair that I should be punished for not having the 'piece of paper'? No, of course not. If I want more money, I'll go and do the cert, not begrudge the people who put the time, money and effort into doing it, while I chose not to.

Eoin

That's great if the qualification is relevant and brings something to the table.

But in some industries, a degree might not be relevant, might not be current - or after enough time, not that much more of a trump card over experience. In some industries, qualifications might be absolutely necessary.

I don't consider it "just a bit of paper", but you should accept that the work experience that someone might have built up instead of studying is worth something too.

I am pretty sure that we have had this exact same debate before.

Eoin

Eoin wrote: »

That's great if the qualification is relevant and brings something to the table.

But in some industries, a degree might not be relevant, might not be current - or after enough time, not that much more of a trump card over experience. In some industries, qualifications might be absolutely necessary.

I don't consider it "just a bit of paper", but you should accept that the work experience that someone might have built up instead of studying is worth something too.

I am pretty sure that we have had this exact same debate before.

If the employer in question was paying graduates more than non-graduates, can't we assume that the qualification was relevant, in their eyes? I don't see what's unfair about it at all.

I am going to finish the degree, my question was more about whether I'd see a job at the end or not.

Mr. Loverman

AdamD wrote: »

I am going to finish the degree, my question was more about whether I'd see a job at the end or not.

All other things being equal, you are more likely to get a job with a degree than without a degree.

ligerdub

Hi Adam,

Good to hear you're doing a BComm in UCD....I did that myself, finished in '04

My advice to you is to be aware of the sort of market is likely to be around when you finish the course, and if you're speciality will fit into the Irish market (you might find you wish to relocate at that point anyway).

The BComm is an excellent degree, I loved my time there personally and it was a very valuable experience to me.

I specialised in finance, with a particular emphasis in Portfolio Management, and Pension Funds. The problem with doing finance is that the market in Ireland is very small from the front-office point of view (the investment decision making end), and jobs are more geared towards back-office (administration jobs).

Most BComm students specialised in Accounting whilst I was there, to be honest most of the big accountancy firms tend to give a bit more attention to Commerce in UCD than they do to other courses. The exemptions on offer for professional accounting exams upon completion of the B.Comm are a bit advantage it has over over courses in Ireland. If you were looking to do accounting then you should be better placed to find a job in Dublin upon graduation.

From my own point of view I've spend the last 5 years or so working in the back-office side of things, and whilst it has enabled me to learn the practicals of investing in a real-world environment it's still very difficult for me to get a foot in the door of a high end brokerage or asset management firm. To be fair the times are tough at the moment, but even if they weren't it would still be next to impossible to get into from the start.

My advice to you is three-fold. Firstly, to do your absolute best to achieve a first or a 2.1, if you can get a first you'll have a serious advantage over your competitors. Second of all, strongly consider the specialised stream most suitable to your interests and long-term objectives. Thirdly, spend considerable time ensuring you take the graduate placements seriously, those programs are possibly the best career opportunity you'll ever get.

Cheers for the reply

Since I picked the course I've wanted to do the 'Banking and Finance' stream. I'm looking into the new internship stream which gives 45 places for people to go on a year long internship after 2nd year, then finish their degree. I reckon this will give me a big advantage when it comes to applying for jobs, though ill need top grades to get that as only 45 out of 270 do.

ligerdub

That sounds like a great opportunity for you.

I say give that you're best shot, try not to think of it as having to be the top 15% or whatever, there will be a significant number who quite simply won't be arsed to give it a go, take advantage of that by working hard to get your foot in the door and you stand a good chance.

From what I've experienced in the workforce thus far, the top dogs will make serious efforts to get the high calibre youngsters, and get them on board early.

I did quite well in college, but having said that I know I could have studied a lot harder, I focussed more on the grades and passing the exam than understanding the material. That was a mistake I made, I looked good on paper until I got to the interview stage and didn't know the fundamentals well enough.

I certainly think that the year long work experience would benefit you hugely should you get it. Having said that, should it not work out for you and you miss out don't be too discouraged, you'd still be in a position of strength.

briano

AdamD wrote: »

Cheers for the reply

Since I picked the course I've wanted to do the 'Banking and Finance' stream. I'm looking into the new internship stream which gives 45 places for people to go on a year long internship after 2nd year, then finish their degree. I reckon this will give me a big advantage when it comes to applying for jobs, though ill need top grades to get that as only 45 out of 270 do.

To be honest, nothing I did in my degree stood to me as well upon leaving college as the 9 months of work experience. I would definately recommend going for this

discus

AdamD wrote: »

I am going to finish the degree, my question was more about whether I'd see a job at the end or not.

An uncle of mine did the degree, and is now a partner in 1 of the Big 4. A mate of mine did it and now she has an accounting (tax) job somewhere. It's a degree you can use, no doubt.

mytwocents

Commerce is a very useful degree to have. In particular if you want to go into accountancy afterwards, you'll be almost guaranteed a job. I would say the majority get jobs after it which is a good thing in this economic environment.

Definitely a worthwhile degree to have. Has a good reputation.

Adrock-aka

I agree with what most of the people are saying here. I did the B.Comm and loved it. To get your career off to the best possible start:

1 - Do that year of work experience! Great idea
2 - Do the 6 month erasmus if you can, especially if it's in a good school
3 - Get to London if you want to be in banking/finance
4 - Use the graduate recruitment events as much as possible to network
5 - Get a 2.1
6 - Start a personal trading portfolio

Good luck!

lopppy

ligerdub wrote: »

to be honest most of the big accountancy firms tend to give a bit more attention to Commerce in UCD than they do to other courses.

Not true