RWC QF: England vs France, Sat 8 Oct 8:30am; Pre/During/Post Match Thread

thomond2006

England:
15 Ben Foden, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Manu Tuilagi, 12 Toby Flood, 11 Mark Cueto, 10 Jonny Wilkinson, 9 Ben Youngs,
8 Nick Easter, 7 Lewis Moody, 6 Tom Croft, 5 Tom Palmer, 4 Louis Deacon, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Steve Thompson, 1 Matt Stevens.

Replacements: 16 Dylan Hartley, 17 Alex Corbisiero, 18 Courtney Lawes, 19 Simon Shaw, 20 James Haskell, 21 Richard Wigglesworth, 22 Matt Banahan.

France:
15 Maxime Médard, 14 Vincent Clerc, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Alexis Palisson, 10 Morgan Parra, 9 Dimitri Yachvili,
8 Imanol Harinordoquy, 7 Julien Bonnaire, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Lionel Nallet, 4 Pascal Pape, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 William Servat, 1 Jean-Baptiste Poux.

Replacements: 16 Dimitri Szarzewski, 17 Fabien Barcella, 18 Julien Pierre, 19 Louis Picamoles, 20 Francois Trinh-Duc, 21 David Marty, 22 Cédric Heymans.

Date: Saturday, October 8
Venue: Eden Park, Auckland
Kick-off: 20.30 (local time)

Referee: Steve Walsh
Assistant referees: Alain Rolland, George Clancy
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman
Assessor: Michel Lamoulie

Another episode of 'Le Crunch' takes place on Saturday as bitter rivals En gland and France face off at Eden Park. As is typical with a World Cup, the best sides will not necessarily make the semi-finals. Neither England nor France will inspire much hope amongst their support of winning the championship yet one of them will be a semi-finalist.

England’s performances on the pitch have been nothing to write home about, but their antics off the pitch certainly have been! Many of their squad suffer the putrid disease of ‘rock stardom’ and it’s surprising that a disciplinarian like Martin Johnson didn’t unleash the hairdryer treatment in advance. The English media have previously branded them as superstars and they have lapped up the fame.

The malaise in the French camp is a bad case of déjà vu; did Raymond Domenech teach Marc Lievremont the intricacies of man management? Here’s a piece of advice Marc, when nobody on the team wants to have a drink with you during a “team bonding” session, you should probably call it quits very fast mate. Will mad Marc try leading a macarena next, to 'boost spirits'? After France’s involvement in the tournament ends, Lievremont will go from national coach to virtually unemployable in rugby circles.

Selections

Wilkinson and Flood both start for England while Mas and Harinordoquy return for France.

England have made 4 changes to their starting lineup from the side that defeated Scotland. The big story is Leicester fly-half Toby Flood starts at 12 alongside Jonny Wilkinson, with Mike Tindall unavailable through injury. England have tried playing 2 number 10s at the same time before and it hasn't worked, however inside centre is not a foreign position to Flood. A big question mark revolves on who will take the goal kicking duties. Tom Palmer replaces Courtney Lawes at lock, Nick Easter starts at 8 while Mark Cueto starts on the wing ahead of the suspended Delon Armitage.

France have only made 2 changes to the side that were disgraced by Pacific Island minnows Tonga last weekend. Nicolas Mas returns from injury to start at tighthead prop while Imanol Harinordoquy replaces Raphael Lakafia at number eight.

Prediction:
France have been a complete disaster on and off the field during the tournament but one suspects they could rise to the occasion because of their opponents, who they will sick of losing to. Indeed, the French may even perform to spite their coach. On paper they have a top quality side, their problems are more mental than a dearth of natural talent.

England have been playing poorly but they have managed to get results and orchestrate the key play when required. Their ongoing saga with the media should galvanise the squad and aid in maintaining a team spirit.

No matter how bad they play in the preceding game, France always have the potential to surprise. However to suddenly turn on the switch and produce a performance after 4 dismal weeks is surely a bridge too far. England It will be an intriguing game between 2 sides who know they are much better than their current form suggests. England have a semblance of where they are going and that should prove crucial. In stark contrast to France, England's defence has been solid and won't concede any cheap tries. England by 8 points.

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RFU & FFR logos taken from www.brandsoftheworld.com, RWC logo taken from www.therugbyforum.com

Date/Time, Refs etc taken from Planet Rugby:
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3559_7220923,00.html
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3556_7226494,00.html

Player images taken from Sky Sports/Planet Rugby sources.

Everything else is my own work.

Judgement Day

France

I'm really looking forward to this. Two teams loaded with talent and both in the horrors form wise, it has to be a cracker - plenty of yellow cards too I suspect!



COMETH THE HOUR, COMETH THE MAN!

andrewdcs

Gavin Henson

I get a strange feeling that England may come up against "That France" as opposed to the shambles they habitually crush in World cups (having "blown their load" as one could crudely put it, against us, the ABs etc.) so perversely think it'll be a great match, won by scoring trys. France to shade it.


I'd rather England won, as I reckon if we can beat Wales we could have their measure, we're constantly pants against France as often said, but the French must have their big game.

Morzadec

English mate of mine is very confident of this. Not really contemplating the possibility of defeat.

I have a feeling France might pull out a performance though...

[Jackass]

France

Interesting to see Flood at 12.

I think England will win purely on organisation and set-piece. I think they are a very limited side though, and are basically using the exact same model as 2003 with much more average players.

They're well drilled and will dog France down imo, but not a side I'd hold any fear of.

justsomebloke

I really hope England win and that France haven't just being hustling us all.

wixfjord

I actually feel a little bit sorry for Lievermont.
He's been hung out to dry a little bit by the FRU imo. Awful, awful manager, but he should have been gone long ago, and they were crazy to stick with him for that long.

In fairness, whatever you say about Deccie, and I've been his biggest critic, he's got us peaking bang on at the right time, and found a 22 which can compete with the top teams.

France have infinitely better options than us, but haven't developed a settled team, a team spirit, a style of play or a controlling 9 and 10.

In saying that, if you took the number 10 out of the game tomorrow, the other French 14 match up very favourably with their English counterparts.

I would not at all be surprised if we see a French performance, but surely England's greater spirit and cohesion will win through.

cgpg5

France

England have beaten France in 4 of their last 5 meetings, and have the form coming into this, unlike France who are the only remaining team to have lost 2 games so far. The French appear in disarray and I feel England have the capacity to improve as the tournament progresses. England by 12

wixfjord

[Jackass] wrote: »

Interesting to see Flood at 12.

I think England will win purely on organisation and set-piece. I think they are a very limited side though, and are basically using the exact same model as 2003 with much more average players.

They're well drilled and will dog France down imo, but not a side I'd hold any fear of.

Same model as 2007 aswell though, with probably better players!

Ashton, Foden, Youngs, Croft, Lawes, Cole etc etc are all top class on their day.
The first three in particular have been very quiet throughout the tournament. Where has the swashbuckling type of play that saw them beat Aus in the AIs last year gone?

steve9859

France

Excited about the prospect of Wilkinson and Flood together. It reminds me of the pre-203 days when Mike Catt sometimes used to play inside centre.

I think England have a good performance in them, and with Flood's good hands hopefully some of Englands attacking talent, which to date has barely got its hands on the ball, will get a chance to show what they can do. And 2 good position kickers in the team I think will make the defence hesitate just that little bit more, which they would not do whenever Tindall got the ball (as he was so predictable). In summary, I am hoping that this is the game when the shackles will come off.

It worries me that France might have done what England did in 2007. if some of the press reports are to be believed, Harnordiquay (sp?) and some other senior players have taken over, in the same way as the England senior players did in 2007 after shambolic group performances. France might come out and have one of those days

BoardsMember

Interesting stat - England have played 6 games in the knockout stages of the last two World Cups, and in those six games have scored only 3 tries. Johnson is relying on more of the same this time around. I have a feeling France might pull through on this one, but I hope not. I would not want to play France for a fourth time this year, they will beat us a fourth time if we both get through.

BoarHunter

Gavin Henson

I think it will end up in a kicking competition and France might have the upper hand. Hope the french Pack will take the advantage and drive on. If Clerc could take over Ashton in the try scorer ranking that would be great too

The key is to cut Wilko - Flood from the rest of the backs

Allez les Bleus !

[Jackass]

France

wixfjord wrote: »

Same model as 2007 aswell though, with probably better players!

Ashton, Foden, Youngs, Croft, Lawes, Cole etc etc are all top class on their day.
The first three in particular have been very quiet throughout the tournament. Where has the swashbuckling type of play that saw them beat Aus in the AIs last year gone?

Yeah they have good players, but I don't think Youngs and Flood are anywhere near as good as they are built up to be, Foden is good, he stands out in the English team, not superb though (imo), Armitage no great shakes. Ashton is top class though.

Wilkinson is still good, but nowhere near his 2003 levels, but I do really rate Tuilagi in the centre. Lawes, Croft etc., again, good, nothing special in terms of world beaters though.

Meh, they've some good players, yes, but nothing to worry about imo. They are collectively much greater than the sum of their parts, England have developed a very good system of rugby when applied correctly, but as predictable as the sun rise and sun set, and I don't think it's troubled us too much in the recent past.

Wales and France are two much tougher teams to play imo, from an Irish perspective.

BoarHunter

Gavin Henson

The positive point for France is that usually England win the tactical battle. This time they haven't a clue where to aim. They have prepared something with Wilko and Flood but we haven't given our strenghts and weakness.

[QUOTE=BoarHunter;74805592This time they haven't a clue where to aim.[/QUOTE]

Because France dont have a clue what theyre doing.

Next french coach shows how it's done....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3PHyrbUNM4

Judgement Day

France

Marc Lièvremont talks the talk http://wc.planetrugby.com/news/view/nobody_likes_england_li_vremont_272637 but can his men deliver?

I always find the mutual dislike between the two countries somewhat amusing given their common heritage, after all England is very much the result of the Norman (French) invasion of 1066 and they have shared close ties in the two World Wars. Okay, I know it was a bit one sided and we had to come to their rescue twice but you'd think they would have forgotten that by now. Perhaps it is Waterloo that sticks in their collective memory, or the sinking by the Royal Navy of their fleet in North Africa in 1940....Anyway, I say remember the 14th October 1066 and the Battle of Hastings when the flower of English manhood was cut down by the Norman invaders.

C'MON ENGLAND, PAYBACK TIME!

Brendan97

glasso wrote: »

Next french coach shows how it's done....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3PHyrbUNM4

unreal try!

thomond2006

glasso wrote: »

Next french coach shows how it's done....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3PHyrbUNM4

**** me, that was an incredible score.

andrewdcs

Gavin Henson

[Jackass] wrote: »

Yeah they have good players, but I don't think Youngs and Flood are anywhere near as good as they are built up to be, Foden is good, he stands out in the English team, not superb though (imo), Armitage no great shakes. Ashton is top class though.

Wilkinson is still good, but nowhere near his 2003 levels, but I do really rate Tuilagi in the centre. Lawes, Croft etc., again, good, nothing special in terms of world beaters though.

Meh, they've some good players, yes, but nothing to worry about imo. They are collectively much greater than the sum of their parts, England have developed a very good system of rugby when applied correctly, but as predictable as the sun rise and sun set, and I don't think it's troubled us too much in the recent past.

Wales and France are two much tougher teams to play imo, from an Irish perspective.

I think England are actually much less than the sum of their parts, the reason very few of those guys would be in a world 15, whereas you'd have Oz, ABs, SA, French and (lets get it on!) Irish and Welsh, is that they've political problems.

The quality of their team through the 30 is a match for anyone, they could lose 10 players (like France, NZ, SA Oz but NOT us) and still play the same plodding dross Johnson and the setup he has put in place wants them to play.

If Deccie, and the Irish coaching setup GOD FORBID got hold of them for 4/5 seasons (i.e. a rotation, world cup to world cup) I really think they'd dominate. Woodward got probably 90% out of them, GS seemd too easy against a brilliant France (and handy Scotland, wales and Ireland were awful in the early 00s) the WC had them favourites, not pulse inducing, but favourites in Australia.

Difference between having loads of decent quality and becoming stars, standing out on the world stage, is due to the setup of the game and the game you choose to play. IRFU could take about 10 English props and probably more backs and see who develops the best, then make em stars, RFU throw people out, muck em around. Ireland, Wales, Scotland are often 2 or three injuries from disaster, england and France have crazy luxury. Lions donkeys yadayada.

PS: Think of 07, when they we STINKING up the pitch and made a final, almost as a protest against the RFU, they've (bit like the football team) embarrassments of riches, but unlike, say, Brazil, Germany (roundy ball) or NZ, SA they just don't have the political freedom to get it out there. stroking the beard I'm going to blame big C conservatism in the home counties the north/south divide and lack of acceptably unifying sporting culture.... <gets coat>

France to play properly tomorrow against "the old enemy"?

Would be entertaining to see, yet I would prefer to play England in a potential semi, and I'm sure Wales would too...

justsomebloke

Looking forward to this now as I'm no longer hoping both teams are crap

thomond2006

C'mon France, lift our spirits. We'll feel better if England do no better than us...

Ok, we are out.

Time for France to decide to stop ****ing about and give us something to enjoy.

LondonIrish90

Come on England, 600 years and all that. Gascony, Normandy, Calais. Big rivalry on sports field as a result etc :pac:

Phonehead

Gavin Henson

France V Wales semi would be a cracker - C'mon France

KeithAFC

Come on England! Make it a Welsh V English semi final. At least I will have a team to support in the final if that is the case.

joshrogan

Gavin Henson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBunJcr1DP8&feature=related Allez les bleu

theboss80

Gavin Henson

France to turn in a completely unexpected performance and beat England

yimrsg

Let's hope Le crunch has some wonderful rugby to make sure getting up early this morning wasn't a total loss. Had Ireland won I'd have hoped to face England but now I want France to win it now.

Running Balance

Gavin Henson

trinh duc world class, does frankie sheehan know anything about rugby, dan carter is world class, trinh duc is not!!

stackerman

Gavin Henson

Right, next up . . .

Please, a French win, otherwise the whole day will be a right-off

joshrogan

Gavin Henson

George Hook:Johnson has the rugby imagination of an ant.

what a national anthem.

Judgement Day

France

ENGLAND!

Great to have 2nd and 3rd choice favourites.

Judgement Day

France

Deleted User wrote: »

what a national anthem.

Do you really think that 'God save the Queen' is that good?

Kristopherus

Gavin Henson

France look to be up for the most.

spiralism

Gavin Henson

George Hook: "France to win in style or i'll lose my faith in rugby"... you and me both, George.

got the funny feeling the french exorcise some demons now

RonBo88

Gavin Henson

Come On FRANCE!!

**** them up, and then **** up the welsh in the semis

Judgement Day

Judgement Day wrote: »

Do you really think that 'God save the Queen' is that good?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ5jO0M-lo

It's more likely to be sung by Irish crowds than Ireland's call tbh!

yimrsg

Tuilagi had 2 men inside him there and didn't even see the pass. England looking dangerous.

Fireball07

Gavin Henson

I only want France to win if they play beautiful rugby. Which they usually do

Come on France!!!

(If they play as rubbish as they have been all tournament, then at least I'd fancy Wales to beat England anyway)

Kristopherus

Gavin Henson

I thought that was a blatant knock on by Engerland.

chupacabra

nice kick Parra. That will settle him.

chupacabra

Kristopherus wrote: »

I thought that was a blatant knock on by Engerland.

Yeah it was. Also Walsh missed a knock on in the air by england and a subsequent penalty for offside.

The Guvnor

Gavin Henson

France to win by 10 or more points!

I will however wager nothing on this wild statement!:D

RonBo88

Gavin Henson

The french national anthem is the best around.

If i was french I wud be so pumped after that.

Fireball07

Gavin Henson

What was that pass??

chupacabra

RonBo88 wrote: »

The french national anthem is the best around.

If i was french I wud be so pumped after that.

Italian, Welsh and South African are better imo

SantryRed

Jesus Christ, Vickery is a goon to listen to.

stackerman

Gavin Henson

French jersey is nice

Ah yes, moody already bloodied