Urgent Issue with tenant please advise

noel123ie

Hi all

To cut a long story short Ive a guy renting for me who has not paid rent in 3 weeks. Originally he told me that he was getting rent allowance but has never confirmed this nor have I ever gotten a cheque from social welfare

Rent is paid weekly. He is a builder who I know is working as well as on the dole

Ive no rental agreement with him

This is where it gets complicated, He did up this house for me( I understand I should not have employed him while on social) liked it and then decided to rent it from me. He has not finished house even though he is in there since June. There is approx 2k worth of work to be done on this

He also did work for my brother worth 8000-9000k ,4000 of this has not been done. This is where I feel really bad as I recommended him

He has given me signed receipts in 2011 for total of work done which he now wants back

My options as I see it are

1 He is a proud member of master craftsmen of Ireland. I can say to him that I will be contacting them

2 Last week he asked me to recommend him to a guy that was looking at house with a view to giving him work. I did this as I hoped it would help me get funds from tenant, I can tell teneant Ill be calling him as I know where his business is based

3 The reciepts I have are ones I printed out with itemised items and his previous address where his partner lives. He has signed these. I could threaten to go to social with these as I also have his pps no. I am very careful though as I dont want to contact revenue and bring them down on me as well

I hope to give him a weeks notice this weekend and change locks . However I do not want to put a foot wrong as dont want to bring a case on myself if I handle this incorrectly

Ive registered this with tenancy board

Ive dropped rent 120 a month to help him out as he said he was stuck for money but Ive seen him a no of times in the pub


Im in a bit of a fix so any help would be great
Many Thanks
Noel

D3PO

You reap what you sow. Anybody who accepts a dole cheat has no sympathy from me.

Delighted to read this story.

noel123ie

D3PO wrote: »

You reap what you sow. Anybody who accepts a dole cheat has no sympathy from me.

Delighted to read this story.

Fair point D3PO
hard lesson learned by me

Noel

D3PO

noel123ie wrote: »

Fair point D3PO
hard lesson learned by me

Noel

so I can assume your next steps will be to contact the social about him and evict him.

noel123ie

D3PO wrote: »

so I can assume your next steps will be to contact the social about him and evict him.

believe me if I thought it was this simple Id evict him in the morning

Im on here looking for advice on how best to handle him

I intend to contact the social in due course

Noel

D3PO

sounds like he is renting a room in your home. he has no rights pack up his crap and fling it out the door change the licks and ring the social.

if its a genuine tennancy then follow correct eviction proceedings contact threshold for more detial on exactly what coruse of action to follow if its the latter.

variety

D3PO wrote: »

sounds like he is renting a room in your home.

This isn't the impression I got, so here's what I think:

noel123ie wrote: »

To cut a long story short Ive a guy renting for me who has not paid rent in 3 weeks. [...]

noel123ie wrote: »

Rent is paid weekly. [...]
Ive no rental agreement with him [...]
Ive registered this with tenancy board [...]

While I completely agree with D3PO's sentiment, I will ignore the moral issues with this situation and simply answer the question you have asked:

You have entered into a weekly Periodic Tenancy.
It does not matter that there is no signed lease agreement; a periodic tenancy can be an oral contract.

noel123ie wrote: »

I hope to give him a weeks notice this weekend and change locks. [...]

noel123ie wrote: »

However I do not want to put a foot wrong as dont want to bring a case on myself if I handle this incorrectly [...]

Under no circumstances should you change locks. You are bound by the Law as per the RTA (2004) and you should read it carefully to determine your responsibilities.
If you change locks you open yourself to a PRTB case for illegal eviction.

You need to give him 1 week’s written notice.
The letter must comply with the law (eg stating the reason for the termination, the date it was served, the date of ther termination, that the letter complies with the RTA (2004) and that Tenant should refer any issue to the PRTB – there are other items you need to include: see the PRTB website for a sample letter of termination).

Of course, once you can determine the Tenant has vacated after the 1 week notice period, definitely change the locks.

You do not need to give the 14 day notice for non-payment of rent; that’s assuming you just want rid of him and are happy to forego the 3 weeks he hasn’t paid you. If you do serve the 14 day non-payment of rent, you will still have to serve the 1 weeks notice after that, so that drags the process out for another 3 weeks.

Equally, you do NOT need to serve 28 days notice, since that only relates to a Part 4 Tenancy and you have a Periodic Tenancy in place.

Next time, follow the letter of law. You clearly don’t understand tenancy law, so make yourself very familiar with it and only let to above-board Tenants.

noel123ie

variety wrote: »

This isn't the impression I got, so here's what I think:

While I completely agree with D3PO's sentiment, I will ignore the moral issues with this situation and simply answer the question you have asked:

You have entered into a weekly Periodic Tenancy.
It does not matter that there is no signed lease agreement; a periodic tenancy can be an oral contract.


Under no circumstances should you change locks. You are bound by the Law as per the RTA (2004) and you should read it carefully to determine your responsibilities.
If you change locks you open yourself to a PRTB case for illegal eviction.

You need to give him 1 week’s written notice.
The letter must comply with the law (eg stating the reason for the termination, the date it was served, the date of ther termination, that the letter complies with the RTA (2004) and that Tenant should refer any issue to the PRTB – there are other items you need to include: see the PRTB website for a sample letter of termination).

Of course, once you can determine the Tenant has vacated after the 1 week notice period, definitely change the locks.

You do not need to give the 14 day notice for non-payment of rent; that’s assuming you just want rid of him and are happy to forego the 3 weeks he hasn’t paid you. If you do serve the 14 day non-payment of rent, you will still have to serve the 1 weeks notice after that, so that drags the process out for another 3 weeks.

Equally, you do NOT need to serve 28 days notice, since that only relates to a Part 4 Tenancy and you have a Periodic Tenancy in place.

Next time, follow the letter of law. You clearly don’t understand tenancy law, so make yourself very familiar with it and only let to above-board Tenants.

Very well written and good advice Variety

Believe me Ive swallowed a bitter pill and lesson learned

Thanks again
Noel

the_syco

noel123ie wrote: »

This is where it gets complicated, He did up this house for me( I understand I should not have employed him while on social) liked it and then decided to rent it from me. He has not finished house even though he is in there since June. There is approx 2k worth of work to be done on this

Correction: he should not have taken social whilst working for you. He should have taken a break from social. His problem, not yours imo.

noel123ie wrote: »

He also did work for my brother worth 8000-9000k ,4000 of this has not been done. This is where I feel really bad as I recommended him

Worth... as in he hasn't done €4k of it? Tell your bro to sue him for uncompleted work.

noel123ie wrote: »

He has given me signed receipts in 2011 for total of work done which he now wants back

Don't.

noel123ie wrote: »

He is a proud member of master craftsmen of Ireland. I can say to him that I will be contacting them

Do so anyway.

noel123ie wrote: »

Last week he asked me to recommend him to a guy that was looking at house with a view to giving him work. I did this as I hoped it would help me get funds from tenant, I can tell teneant Ill be calling him as I know where his business is based

Let him know that the guy is now giving you the run around.

noel123ie wrote: »

The reciepts I have are ones I printed out with itemised items and his previous address where his partner lives. He has signed these. I could threaten to go to social with these as I also have his pps no. I am very careful though as I dont want to contact revenue and bring them down on me as well

Let social know.

noel123ie wrote: »

I hope to give him a weeks notice this weekend and change locks . However I do not want to put a foot wrong as dont want to bring a case on myself if I handle this incorrectly

Go along the eviction route, and get rid of him. Consider it a lesson learnt, and once you get rid of him, then go nuclear on him, bring him to court, invalidate his social, ruin his references, etc.

Victor

variety wrote: »

You need to give him 1 week’s written notice.
The letter must comply with the law (eg stating the reason for the termination, the date it was served, the date of ther termination, that the letter complies with the RTA (2004) and that Tenant should refer any issue to the PRTB – there are other items you need to include: see the PRTB website for a sample letter of termination).

Of course, once you can determine the Tenant has vacated after the 1 week notice period, definitely change the locks.

You do not need to give the 14 day notice for non-payment of rent; that’s assuming you just want rid of him and are happy to forego the 3 weeks he hasn’t paid you. If you do serve the 14 day non-payment of rent, you will still have to serve the 1 weeks notice after that, so that drags the process out for another 3 weeks.

Equally, you do NOT need to serve 28 days notice, since that only relates to a Part 4 Tenancy and you have a Periodic Tenancy in place.

Next time, follow the letter of law. You clearly don’t understand tenancy law, so make yourself very familiar with it and only let to above-board Tenants.[/COLOR]

I'm not so certain on these details - you need to check www.PRTB.ie and it may be useful to get advice from Threashold www.threshold.ie or a solicitor.

Victor

D3PO wrote: »

You reap what you sow. Anybody who accepts a dole cheat has no sympathy from me.

Delighted to read this story.

Gloat all you want, but you also need to post constructively.

The_Conductor

Noel- can you clarify- is he renting the entire property- or just a room?

noel123ie

smccarrick wrote: »

Noel- can you clarify- is he renting the entire property- or just a room?

Hi there


All the house

Thanks
Noel

D3PO

well then you need to follow correct eviction proceedings. Contact Threshold if your unsure how to do this.

In the interim make sure you have contacted the revenue and also your local CWO to inform them that this guy is working and claiming the dole and RA.

the_syco

D3PO wrote: »

In the interim make sure you have contacted the revenue and also your local CWO to inform them that this guy is working and claiming the dole and RA.

Maybe wait until after you get rid of him. If he has no money, he may just stay put, and stay rent free for a very long time.

D3PO

the_syco wrote: »

Maybe wait until after you get rid of him. If he has no money, he may just stay put, and stay rent free for a very long time.

he could do that anyway. in the meantime hes defrauding the state. nail him big time and do it now

baaaa

He is defrauding the state,you,your brother and probably that other person whom you recommended him to.
And it sounds like he's making a nice few quid off ye all.
I would change the locks and if he has a problem tell him you'll inform the social on him.
Then inform the social on him after a few months.

the_syco

baaaa wrote: »

I would change the locks and if he has a problem tell him you'll inform the social on him.

Pffft. He could sue for illegal eviction and get €10,000 easy money. And continue to live in the house whilst the case is ongoing. Yeah, great idea :rolleyes:

noel123ie

Hi all



Update on situation



I called to house last week to serve 28 day notice on guy



He was gone no televison clothes shoes etc gone



I left it a few days and then changed locks



Ive now reg ister posted offical notice of end of agreement to his partners address stating I require him to move out as I intent to move in as advised by my solicitor



if for any reason he comes back to house Ill have to say-I changed locks as I could not contact him



Hope he doesnt come back as legally I would be obliged to let him in until 28 days notice are up and he already owes me a months rent



Thanks for all the help to all

Noel

antoinolachtnai

Personally I would pin an envelope addressed to him to the door containing the notice.

Why is this? It's because at the end of 28 days, if it is still there, it shows that he has abandoned the property, i.e., left and not returned. If he has abandoned the property, there is no need for you to get a PRTB order before reentering the property.

Notice to his partner's address is really no notice at all, unless that address is given in the lease.

You really should not have entered or changed the locks. If you end up in court the fact of not being able to contact your crappy tenant is not going to stand up as a good enough reason for entering and changing the locks. It could well be that there was some reason why you changed the locks other than the behavior of the tenant. There are loads of good reasons to change locks in an emergency which have nothing to do with illegally evicting someone. This could be explained in your notice letter. (As you say, if he asks for the new keys, you are going to have to give them to him.)

The thing about moving in is not a great story if you are not actually intending to move in and make it your home. He could go back to the PRTB later and claim his compensation from you if he sees the house for rent again.

This is not legal advice, I hasten to add and you would be as well to consider the advice of your solicitor ahead of any advice you get on a discussion board. Also, the problems contemplated above probably won't happen, but they might. He will probably just go away and forget about it. I am just telling you the worst scenario. It is really better to be thorough.

mlumley

You tried to screw the tax man not having any legal docs. HE SCREWED YOU. Fair play. If you do it legaly, you have a legal come back. If it was me, i'd see you in court. People like you make me sick, try to get one over on paying your tax and cry when you get done yourself. No wonder he rented off you. No sympathy here.