Claybar

VolvoMan

Why is this newly fashionable detailing product such a rip-off?

mickdw

Its not so expensive and its not something you would be using everyday of the week either.

TomMc

I'd hardly call it newly fashionable given they have been around for several decades. A clay bar could be bought for between 12-15 Euro and 20 plus with lubricant. You could use a high foaming slick shampoo instead. Better to use a detailing spray though as you do not want to mar paint or it would be a false economy. While clay bars still have a place fallout remover sprays are where it is at as of now. They remove industrial fallout and brake dust embeded in the paint. Clay bars only really clean the surface, they do not decontaminate paint.

L-M

TomMc wrote: »

I'd hardly call it newly fashionable given they have been around for several decades. A clay bar could be bought for between 12-15 Euro and 20 plus with lubricant. You could use a high foaming slick shampoo instead. Better to use a detailing spray though as you do not want to mar paint or it would be a false economy. While clay bars still have a place fallout remover sprays are where it is at as of now. They remove industrial fallout and brake dust embeded in the paint. Clay bars only really clean the surface, they do not decontaminate paint.

I've used water with a teeny drop of washing up liquid and I've never marred painted. Using the detailing spray is a waste of money unless you buy it in concentrated form.

TomMc

20 quid for a clay bar and detailing spray is hardly expensive. Some clays work with water but using a detailing spray is still the best and safest way of claying. The slicker the lubricant the better. Also depends on how mild or aggressive the clay bar is. You will not see marring been induced at the time, especially on wet paint. When the paintwork is fully dry and inspected under proper lighting, it could be a different story and of course more noticeable on dark colours.

L-M

Using washing up liquid and water, you won't get much more lubed than that. It's perfect for the job, and plenty of people recommend it.

Using a stupidly expensive Detailing spray on it is a fools game.

mickdw

Limerick man wrote: »

Using washing up liquid and water, you won't get much more lubed than that. It's perfect for the job, and plenty of people recommend it.

Using a stupidly expensive Detailing spray on it is a fools game.

Detailer.ie will sell you a clay bar and a concentrate bottle of lube that will last ages for €11.
If thats too expensive, you could always use that super €2 wheel cleaner you have:D

VolvoMan

Limerick man wrote: »

Using washing up liquid and water

What about the salt content of washing up liquid?

I actually only read today that it is posible to use bluetack on the paintwork of a car to do the same job as a far more expensive clay bar. It could be total bollocks though.

L-M

mickdw wrote: »

Detailer.ie will sell you a clay bar and a concentrate bottle of lube that will last ages for €11.
If thats too expensive, you could always use that super €2 wheel cleaner you have:D

It's a pretty epic wheel cleaner.

I'm talking about spending 30 odd quid on that Meguairs set for the two teeny claybars and a bottle of the Detailing spray. The spray is good, I just wouldn't use it on the claybar. It's a waste when water and washing up liquid does a perfect job.

TomMc

A quick detailer spray or soapy water (high foaming shampoo). Not washing up liquid. The Megs kit is only 20 quid if you buy in the right places. Halfords are much more expensive than detailing specialists.

"Q4. Is it better to use soapy water or a detailing spray for lubrication.

A4. Both work equally well. If you want to do the job fast, use a bucket of soapy water. If you want to work inside or do a thorough job, use a spray lubricant. With a spray lubricant you can wipe down each panel as you go and feel for areas you missed".


http://guidetodetailing.com/detailing-101/using-detailing-clay/

L-M

What's the difference between washing up liquid in water and soapy water?

Or is the soapy water another product you buy off the detailing company?

TomMc

Compare the ingredients (contents) of washing up liquid with a gentle car wash shampoo. World's apart as is suitability for the task at hand. You wouldn't wash your hair with fairy liquid or your dishes with head & shoulders.

L-M

TomMc wrote: »

Compare the ingredients (contents) of washing up liquid with a gentle car wash shampoo. World's apart as is suitability for the task at hand. You wouldn't wash your hair with fairy liquid or your dishes with head & shoulders.

Yeah... sure...

:pac:

But really, there's some car wash you could buy for a quid if you were that anal.

Voodoomelon

I'm with LM on this, a few drops of Fairy Liquid in a spray bottle of water does no harm to the paint and does the job fine. Some of the detailer products out there take the piss with how anal they get in regards "conditioning" paint. There's only so much you can do to make it look good.

TomMc

Your the one who is simple minded if you would prefer to use a few ml's of washing up liquid, rather than a few ml's of car wash shampoo (given they are both cheap as chips).

Claying: The objective is to keep the paint surface and clay well lubricated so the bar picks up bonded contamination and most importantly can still glide smoothly across the surface without the risk of marring or scuffing the surface. A quick detailer spray (lubricant) is supplied with a clay bar with this requirement specifically in mind. That is what it's designed for: lubricity in addition to removing dust and other light soiling, or as a gloss enhancer when used on its own between washes. It does a better job and more safely than using just plain water. Washing up liquids are formulated to degrease dishes, not to be used as clay lube. You will also find that using the proper lubricant will extend the life of the clay bar in comparison with cruder methods.

L-M

Well I've used the washing up liquid combo on many of my cars and it has never caused any marring. I would easily recommend anyone else to do so, too.

TomMc

Well if that's what you want to do, there is no point me trying to educate you or even broaden your mind.

Just make sure you rinse any washing-up solution off paintwork with a pressure washer before it dries out on your paintwork. And best to shampoo wash the paint afterwards anyway in case any clay deposits are left behind. Why not use a sudsy car wash shampoo in the first place if you do not want to pay a few Euro extra for a detailing spray.

Anyway, for those that want to learn, wash first with a proper car wash shampoo or apc, use a tar remover next, then a fallout remover or decontamination spray to clean your paint properly. It will deep clean paintwork better and safer than claying ever will. In many cases it makes claying unnecessary. Then apply a polish to restore paintwork, followed by a sealant to protect it.

wildswan

TomMc wrote: »

Compare the ingredients (contents) of washing up liquid with a gentle car wash shampoo. World's apart as is suitability for the task at hand. You wouldn't wash your hair with fairy liquid or your dishes with head & shoulders.

I've used washing up liquid, it's awesome if you want really really clean hair:pac:

Hal1

It's not that expensive. There are plenty good deals on ebay offering 2 x 250g clay bar with lube for under €30 delivered. Start with some mild stuff first.

L-M

TomMc wrote: »

Well if that's what you want to do, there is no point me trying to educate you or even broaden your mind.

Just make sure you rinse any washing-up solution off paintwork with a pressure washer before it dries out on your paintwork. And best to shampoo wash the paint afterwards anyway in case any clay deposits are left behind. Why not use a sudsy car wash shampoo in the first place if you do not want to pay a few Euro extra for a detailing spray.

I don't need to be educated, I've been cleaning cars since I was about 14, and I worked solid/managed a Valeting company for 6 months and tried out every which what way of cleaning a car, I also spoke with valetors that have over 25 years experience with cleaning cars and had sessions with them.

I'm hardly going to clay a car and not wash it afterwards?

I've a Bora there at the moment that needs a proper clean and polish. I'll show exactly what I use, picture by picture and I'll show how the paint comes up. It won't even need a clay.

You sound like someone who's been reading Meguairs leaflets a little too much/ trying to pimp sales for an unnecessary product.

voxpop

decontamination spray

whats that ? IronX ?


I was always under the impression that washing-up liquid had salt and harsh chemicals that were bad for your paintwork?

Seperate

Limerick man wrote: »

I don't need to be educated, I've been cleaning cars since I was about 14, and I worked solid/managed a Valeting company for 6 months and tried out every which what way of cleaning a car, I also spoke with valetors that have over 25 years experience with cleaning cars and had sessions with them.

I have 15 years experience playing golf, but I'm still not that great.

Experience counts for nothing, if it's not good experience. Using washing up liquid is not good for the paintwork. If it works for you, fine, but it's not good for it. Same way drinking a can of coke might not do any harm to you short term, long term if you drink a can a day for a few years, you'll start to see the effects.

If you look into the science and theory of using washing up liquid, you'll find out. Fairy liquid is a DEGREASER, it contains alot of SALT and is not good for paint work. Like Tom said, the damage might not be evident in natural light, or even straight away, but it is doing damage.

Limerick man wrote: »

I've a Bora there at the moment that needs a proper clean and polish. I'll show exactly what I use, picture by picture and I'll show how the paint comes up. It won't even need a clay.

Polishing is 100 times easier with a clayed surface as opposed to not in my opinion.

Limerick man wrote: »

You sound like someone who's been reading Meguairs leaflets a little too much/ trying to pimp sales for an unnecessary product.

I've read of the leaflets too, but I've polished everything from a nissan micra to a Bugatti Veyron. I've been trained, assessed and approved by the biggest brands in car care. Clay lubricant is not unnecessary.

TomMc

Limerick man wrote: »

I don't need to be educated, I've been cleaning cars since I was about 14, and I worked solid/managed a Valeting company for 6 months and tried out every which what way of cleaning a car, I also spoke with valetors that have over 25 years experience with cleaning cars and had sessions with them.

I'm hardly going to clay a car and not wash it afterwards?

I've a Bora there at the moment that needs a proper clean and polish. I'll show exactly what I use, picture by picture and I'll show how the paint comes up. It won't even need a clay.

Anybody can clean a car, detailing them properly or to a very high standard requires skill, knowledge and lots of experience. Most car valetors wouldn't measure up to this standard, so putting them on a pedestal as experts shows how naive you are. Professional detailers buid their business due to the shortcomings of valetors and of course correcting their mistakes. And only a fool would be stupid enough to think they would learn all there is to know in six months. You would only learn the basics and no more. The only people who advance in life (whatever their field) are ones who have an open mind and change with the times, embrace new methods and technologies, not think they know it all and set in their ways. The number of advancements in chemistry and nano technology in the past few years make much of what you learned and used at 14 years of age or in six short months obsolete.

BanzaiBk

I almost always use Bilt Hamber autoclay. It's about £11. It can be used with just water but I mostly use some diluted born slippy or if I'm stuck whatever shampoo I'm using diluted with warm water. I cut a 200g bar into 3/4 chunks depending and each chunk usually does a whole average car. I clay wheels with the used clay if it's not too bad. Considering you're only going to use a piece of the clay at a time and it only needs to be done every 6 months or so it isn't that expensive.

Claybar kits in Halford's and the like are probably a rip off, never purchased one though. I've seen the megs kit for upwards of €20.

L-M

Seperate wrote: »

If you look into the science and theory of using washing up liquid, you'll find out. Fairy liquid is a DEGREASER, it contains alot of SALT and is not good for paint work. Like Tom said, the damage might not be evident in natural light, or even straight away, but it is doing damage.

I'm talking about a very minute amount of washing up liquid, anyone that claybars a car polishes it afterwards.

TomMc wrote: »

Anybody can clean a car, detailing them properly or to a very high standard requires skill, knowledge and lots of experience. Most car valetors wouldn't measure up to this standard, so putting them on a pedestal as experts shows how naive you are. Professional detailers buid their business due to the shortcomings of valetors and of course correcting their mistakes. And only a fool would be stupid enough to think they would learn all there is to know in six months. You would only learn the basics and no more. The only people who advance in life (whatever their field) are ones who have an open mind and change with the times, embrace new methods and technologies, not think they know it all and set in their ways. The number of advancements in chemistry and nano technology in the past few years make much of what you learned and used at 14 years of age or in six short months obsolete.

You're seriously comparing professional detailing, which is completely pointless on a daily car IMO, to using a tenners worth of claybar on the averages Joes car in Ireland, seriously?

I'll embrace new methods no bother, but not if they're a needless waste of time/money.

TomMc

If professional detailers do the job one way, it is for a reason. Because it is the most effective and safest way of doing so. Reflected in the results. Why would the ordinary Joe not follow their lead and use similar products and techniques. It isn't going to cost them much more if they are only paying for products and not labour costs as well. You might not want to pay a craftsman to tackle any particular task in a specialist field (preferring to do it yourself), but an intelligent person would at least value and try and learn from their expertise and processes, rather than devalue it as worthless.

If detailing daily drivers was a waste of time, detailers wouldn't exist. There wouldn't be enough show cars to sustain a business. The fact that they do operate full time, is because many motorists see the value they add. Paint correction and low maintenance specialist coatings been the best example of same.

The trouble with you LM, is that you have no appreciation for car care beyond the basics, it is either clean and shiny or dirty and little else. That's fine if it's all you can see or care about but do not ridicule others who are more sophisticated. The benefits of decontaminating, polishing and sealing paintwork, will remain for many months. Both in terms of appearance enhancement and protection. Just because a detailed car gets dirty in the first shower, doesn't nullify the previous work. A simply wash is all that is required to highlight this.