FIFA 12 - What the hell?

carlcon

So I should start by saying I'm only just returning to the world of console gaming, and have let the whole world of video games pass me by over the last 7-8 years.

Anyway... I just had an Xbox 360 and a bunch of games delivered today, and I just felt like venting here about how Fifa 12 is the biggest crock of schitt I've ever come across. I got it instead of a PES game because it was part of the deal that came with the Xbox.

I ended up taking out my old PES games for the original Xbox, just to make sure I hadn't just turned into some anti-gamer old fart, and I actually enjoyed playing the old Pro Evo 4 (2004) for a bit. Then I found a super-old FIFA 95 for the megadrive and had a fun laugh with that.

Even old games like those are 10x better than this travesty of a game.

Sure, it's nice to have all the player names, jerseys, sponsors, etc... but there is absolutely nothing about the gameplay that I can say I enjoy.

It's slow, the players don't run or turn smoothly, the passing and off-the-ball running AI is awful, and general "realism" of the physics and gameplay just doesn't feel right to me.

Not to mention that the game doesn't even come with a booklet!

Is this just me? Or is this game really that bad?

I've also just been playing F1 2011, Fable 2 and 3, Dead or Alive 4, and a couple of shooters, and haven't had a problem with any of them (other than just being a rusty gamer)... but with FIFA, I am actually angered by how bad it is.

NotorietyH

carlcon wrote: »

Is this just me? Or is this game really that bad?

It's just you. It's getting pretty much the best reviews I've seen a FIFA game get from reviewers and gamers. Haven't played it myself, but the consensus seems to be that it's great. Not the best way to judge a game necessarily but it's averaging 91 on metacritic.

Bonesy.

must say i feel very mixed about this..only got it there yesterday..so by sunday the glamour of it should have worn off and then I'll really know how i feel.. your right though AI is brutal

carlcon

NotorietyH wrote: »

It's just you. It's getting pretty much the best reviews I've seen a FIFA game get from reviewers and gamers. Haven't played it myself, but the consensus seems to be that it's great. Not the best way to judge a game necessarily but it's averaging 91 on metacritic.

If this is true, and this is the kind of game people want these days, I might as well just give up right now.

I'll give it a chance and play a season, but the chances are I'll be heading straight back into the shop for a trade-in soon.

brian plank

its soccer games in general these days. pes is sh*t now too.

Grumpypants

thing with FIFA is you are expected to do an awful lot more than just control the basics like before, the player controls requires using extra buttons. getting players to run off the ball is controlled by you. there is so much to be learnt that the first time players like I was get lost.

tactical defending doesn't work and the disparity between semi pro and pro is too big but generally its quite a good game.

Tipsy McSwagger

PES 5 on PS2 is still the best footie game ever

deathrider

carlcon wrote: »

... how Fifa 12 is the biggest crock of schitt I've ever come across.

I've also just been playing F1 2011, Fable 2 and 3, Dead Or Alive 4, and a couple of shooters, and haven't had a problem with any of them (other than just being a rusty gamer)... but with FIFA, I am actually angered by how bad it is.

Forget about Virtual Men In Shorts 12 and just play Virtual Boobies 4 instead

Tusky

It's really just you - its an excellent game.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/fifa-soccer-12

Sabre0001

Best football game in years!

Krusader

FIFA isn't the problem, its you've been away from gaming 7/8 yrs, the manual is on the disc, learn the tutorials, play some practise matches to hone your skills

Doodee

I don't think it is you. I was a big fan of Fifa 11, but 12 has just gone arseways.

The tactical defending is woeful. I kind of feel that they made it more difficult just to make it different. I have to turn to turn on legacy just to get through a game.
The support AI is still poor. For virtual footballers they really fail to run into space.

Im also disliking the rag doll. When combined with the poor AI it really causes some frustration.
I also feel hard done by as a fan of a smaller club. This was the same in the last version and unfortunately hasn't changed. The stats seldom reflect the lesser known players.

That is after 3 days. I will continue to give it a try, but the appeal of playing against the computer (intermediate) is dissipating with each game.

Helix

best football game ever made

carlcon

No matter how many new moves and controls I learn, it's still slow, clunky, and has terrible physics. Watching Ashley Young "sprint" is bloody hilarious.

And I know the main appeal has nothing to do with the management/career sections, but they're also horrible. Terribly unrealistic pricing and nogotiating, along with a very peculiar way of gaining stats for a career player.

I understand it's all about opinion, but you lot who think it's the "best ever made" are quite simply wrong. It's one thing to like it, I won't be arsey enough to say you shouldn't like it... but to think it's the best ever? Madness.

The PES games have always had the better gameplay, that's not even up for discussion. FIFA always won credit from the novelty of having the sponsorship, but when it comes to just playing a nice game of computer footie, the FIFAs lack so much.

And I don't care too much for magazine ratings either. They were dodgy in the 90s and 00s when I played, so I don't plan on trusting them now.

From the responses I've gotten elsewhere and here, it's about 60:40 in favour of ignoring FIFA 12 altogether.

carlcon

deathrider wrote: »

Forget about Virtual Men In Shorts 12 and just play Virtual Boobies 4 instead

Ha yeah, don't get me started on that too. It was only €6 on gamestop when I was ordering my Xbox, so figured it couldn't hurt to have it...

...it does. :pac:

carlcon

Crosáidí wrote: »

FIFA isn't the problem, its you've been away from gaming 7/8 yrs, the manual is on the disc, learn the tutorials, play some practise matches to hone your skills

I understand the point, and I'm definitely going to give it more time... but I've played a bunch of other games I've been away from for years too, and they've all impressed me in terms of progression from their originals. It's only Fifa that has made me react like this.

You're totally right that I need to learn more about it before I completely abandon it, but it's not rocket science... it's just a football game. It shouldn't take a lot of effort to "find the good things" if it's really that good.

Just to give an example, one of my last "favourite" games on the old Xbox was Fable. I picked up 2 and 3 with my Xbox 360 and they have literally made me laugh to myself at how much better they have become. I compare this FIFA to a football game from 5, 10, 15 years ago, and I see no relevant improvements at all when it comes to gameplay. They've added more things, sure... but they just make the game fidgety, and far from smooth.

Corholio

carlcon wrote: »

No matter how many new moves and controls I learn, it's still slow, clunky, and has terrible physics. Watching Ashley Young "sprint" is bloody hilarious.

And I know the main appeal has nothing to do with the management/career sections, but they're also horrible. Terribly unrealistic pricing and nogotiating, along with a very peculiar way of gaining stats for a career player.

I understand it's all about opinion, but you lot who think it's the "best ever made" are quite simply wrong. It's one thing to like it, I won't be arsey enough to say you shouldn't like it... but to think it's the best ever? Madness.

The PES games have always had the better gameplay, that's not even up for discussion. FIFA always won credit from the novelty of having the sponsorship, but when it comes to just playing a nice game of computer footie, the FIFAs lack so much.

And I don't care too much for magazine ratings either. They were dodgy in the 90s and 00s when I played, so I don't plan on trusting them now.

From the responses I've gotten elsewhere and here, it's about 60:40 in favour of ignoring FIFA 12 altogether.

Having been away for '7-8 years' I have to say you've missed a lot, and it has been up for discussion on which FIFA the last 3 or 4 years has mostly been judged the winner.

Kirby

carlcon wrote: »

The PES games have always had the better gameplay, that's not even up for discussion. FIFA always won credit from the novelty of having the sponsorship, but when it comes to just playing a nice game of computer footie, the FIFAs lack so much.

This comment shows your haven't played in a while. If you don't like the new game, you arent alone. But this remark is just so offbase its scary.

The last 4 Fifa's have been lauded as far superior in nearly every category by the extreme majority....even by PES fanboys. Pes 6 was the last good Pes game. Konami have made it progressively worse every year since then.

NunianVonFuch

carlcon wrote: »

FIFA

It's not just you, but I think the problems you mention are the singleplayer game which is crap. I'm not a regular FIFA player so can't compete at the Pro difficulty while the Semi-Pro is far too easy, as the opposition AI doesn't even run. Give it a try with a mate or two or venture online for proper gameplay as the bugs in the career mode with growth and telepathic AI interceptions will ruin soloplay in the longterm.

NotorietyH

carlcon wrote: »

The PES games have always had the better gameplay, that's not even up for discussion.

Actually that's changed too over the last few years. That was true up until a point, but it got a stage where PES stopped innovating and the FIFA team rebuilt the game from the ground up starting with FIFA 09 roughly I think it was.

PES is no longer regarded as the better of the two by most people.

MitchKoobski

Having no proper booklet/manual in the case pissed me off too.

Getting sick of all these games coming out with just a leaflet saying "In-Game Manual" and some terms and conditions. The smell from a new booklet of a freshly opened new game case is the same as the smell of a new book.

If that makes any sense...

Sabre0001

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Having no proper booklet/manual in the case pissed me off too.

Getting sick of all these games coming out with just a leaflet saying "In-Game Manual" and some terms and conditions. The smell from a new booklet of a freshly opened new game case is the same as the smell of a new book.

If that makes any sense...

Also confused by that one. Sometimes they're interesting to flick through. Also, considering the new button changes for FIFA12, it would be handy to have close to hand for some people.

ScumLord

You got old son. Games got more complicated too.

You don't get arcade games like there used to be that you could just pick up and start playing. They've all got learning curves and expect you to dedicate time to learning them, there are some games I'd love to be playing I just don't have the time to dedicate to them.


You just have to spend the few hours it's going to take to get back up to speed. Of course you'll never quite get there now that the arthritis and dementia is setting in.

Grumpypants

Helix wrote: »

best football game ever made

Its not the best football game ever made it's the best Fifa ever made, but that's not hard as anything from FIFA 11 back is total garbage bundled together for the Sky generation.

Sensible soccer
football manager
Pro Evo 3,4,5

Are all far better Football games. Hell Pro Evo 5 on the original Xbox is still the best football game out there, no one has ever come close to beating it not even Konami themselves.

This years FIFA, while a vast improvement still has way too many issues to be getting the scores it is getting. Tactical defending doesn't work, its a valiant effort to try something different as defending has always been suspect in all the games but the AI defenders mark space not the ball or player, cardinal sin in defending. They tried to remove "X" pressing but now all people do is press with an AI player using R2& L2, its the same thing except not you have two players closing you down and neither are as functional.

The physics engine is brilliant for tackling but if the ball hits your defender he stops dead instead of clearing it!! Vision engine is class.

Lots about FIFA 12 is brilliant but it is still plagued by its silly past, players can do too many stupid tricks, the first 6 games i played i thought they had cracked it and built the best game so far, but 25 games in the problems are starting to become glaringly obvious. 40 games in and they are ruining every match.

IVIada

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

PES 5 on PS2 is still the best footie game ever

Couldn't agree more!!

Helix

Fifa 12 is better than every game you mentioned there. Comparing sensi to it is laughable, footy manager isnt close to like for like and the early pes games were mind blowing at the time, but light years behindvanuthing on the market these days

super_furry

Grumpypants wrote: »

Sensible soccer
football manager
Pro Evo 3,4,5

Not a chance. Sensible soccer was great back in the day but it's like comparing Space Invaders to Gears of War 3 now, you can play it for about 20 minutes for a nostalgia blast but that's about it. Anyway Goal! was the much better game back then anyway.

The old Pro Evo games are in the same situation, they were great at the time but trying to go back to them now just leaves them feeling dated, simple and more like pinball simulators than football.

Football Manager is a totally different game and would be like comparing GTA to Sim City.

FIFA 2012 really is the best football game yet. The Pro Evo '12 demo is a big step forward for a series that lost its way mind you.

I think there's an element of snobbery about FIFA because it's got the EA licencing and marketting jugernaut behind it, and because for so long it wasn't as good as Pro Evo. Those days have long passed now though and FIFA really is a brilliantly crafted game with near limitless replayability and depth.

penev10

Football games haven't made the jump to this generation very well unfortunately.

I've been playing them from the beginning - Kick Off, Sensi, ISS etc. and every generation up to this one has evolved the genre.

I was a big fan of PES when it reached it's pinnacle on the PS2 but really it's lost it's way since then. Konami have been too afraid to do anything other than minor tweaks and at this stage it's horrible.

FIFA was always playing second fiddle until recently (c.2008) when EA bit the bullet, got in some new staff and rebuilt the game form the ground up. It's still not much better than the current PES.

I've given up buying football games for the last couple of years as they jsut aren't worth it and I'm not surprised the OP is having this reaction to the latest FIFA.

IVIada

super_furry wrote: »

Football Manager is a totally different game and would be like comparing GTA to Sim City.

Love it!!

Grumpypants

super_furry wrote: »

Not a chance. Sensible soccer was great back in the day but it's like comparing Space Invaders to Gears of War 3 now, you can play it for about 20 minutes for a nostalgia blast but that's about it. Anyway Goal! was the much better game back then anyway.

The old Pro Evo games are in the same situation, they were great at the time but trying to go back to them now just leaves them feeling dated, simple and more like pinball simulators than football.

Football Manager is a totally different game and would be like comparing GTA to Sim City.

FIFA 2012 really is the best football game yet. The Pro Evo '12 demo is a big step forward for a series that lost its way mind you.

I think there's an element of snobbery about FIFA because it's got the EA licencing and marketting jugernaut behind it, and because for so long it wasn't as good as Pro Evo. Those days have long passed now though and FIFA really is a brilliantly crafted game with near limitless replayability and depth.

Its not snobbery Fifa do a great job of recreating the Sky match you see on the TV they just can't capture playing a real match, this is what Pro Evo 5 had right and why so many people still consider it the best game.

Also GTA is a third person open world game, sim city is a micro management god game. It would be closer to compare Sim city to Tropico. Of which Sim City is still better.

Sensi soccer is still genius i played it for hours last night on my SNES, it still stands up.

Helix

Grumpypants wrote: »

Fifa do a great job of recreating the Sky match you see on the TV they just can't capture playing a real match, this is what Pro Evo 5 had right and why so many people still consider it the best game.

thats so far from reality its insane

no game has EVER come close to the level of simulation on offer with fifa 12. its closer to a real match than youll ever get. i think the issue here is that people seem to be under the illusion that it should be arcadey. you can't have your cake and eat it... if you want it to play like a sim then you cant have the arcadey pes feel you want

Grumpypants

Helix wrote: »

Fifa 12 is better than every game you mentioned there. Comparing sensi to it is laughable, footy manager isnt close to like for like and the early pes games were mind blowing at the time, but light years behindvanuthing on the market these days

Not really once you look past the graphical advances the game engine hasn't come on an awful lot, in fact Pro Evo's one has gotten worse, Fifa have tried to improve and credit must be given to them but they are still held back by their idiotic past. You have Plymouth Argyle players who can do Ronaldo step overs, and chest a really fast moving ball down from head height with one touch !!

Fifa 12 is a huge step forward from Fifa 11 which was total garbage. Now if you want a game that recreates watch footy on TV then Fifa is your game, if you want a game that captures playing in a real match then Pro Evo 5 is the last game to do that.

The managerial mode in Fifa is a great addition but very limited something like football manager is miles better but that's expected as its a dedicated managerial game rather than a mode within a overall package but still a valid point.

Go To Options and turn off Tactical defending.

I felt the same as you until i did this. The Game plays alot better.

Helix

what on earth are you on about man, the game engine has come on a huge amount. it's unrecognisable from even 3 years ago.

heres a shocker for you, plymouth argyle players CAN do ronaldo stepovers, they're not hard to do. they can also chest down fast moving balls too. however like reality, the engine means they can't do it properly all the time.

pes 5 doesnt come close to a real match, the fact that you keep saying it does is nonsense. it's a game from the last generation that plays like a game from the last generation. it's not a sim, it's an arcade game. that doesnt capture real football. sounds to me like you want fifa street or something, coz you haven't a breeze of the difference between a footie sim and an arcade game

the fact that you say fifa 11 was garbage just renders your opinion worthless imo. sorry

Grumpypants

Helix wrote: »

what on earth are you on about man, the game engine has come on a huge amount. it's unrecognisable from even 3 years ago.

heres a shocker for you, plymouth argyle players CAN do ronaldo stepovers, they're not hard to do. they can also chest down fast moving balls too. however like reality, the engine means they can't do it properly all the time.

pes 5 doesnt come close to a real match, the fact that you keep saying it does is nonsense. it's a game from the last generation that plays like a game from the last generation. it's not a sim, it's an arcade game. that doesnt capture real football. sounds to me like you want fifa street or something, coz you haven't a breeze of the difference between a footie sim and an arcade game

the fact that you say fifa 11 was garbage just renders your opinion worthless imo. sorry

Since my opinion is worthless ill just leave this conversation with you so, i'm only here for a chat about games not to be talked down to.

Just for the record i don't want Fifa street i want a game that can recreate what it was like for me to be on the pitch playing, like i did at a reasonable level for a long time rather than what its like to watch a game on TV. Pro Evo 5 even though you think its arcadey was the last game to capture that, something Fifa has never been able to do.

carlcon

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Having no proper booklet/manual in the case pissed me off too.

Getting sick of all these games coming out with just a leaflet saying "In-Game Manual" and some terms and conditions. The smell from a new booklet of a freshly opened new game case is the same as the smell of a new book.

If that makes any sense...

What's a booklet? I read about one once on my Kindle.

carlcon

Helix wrote: »

thats so far from reality its insane

no game has EVER come close to the level of simulation on offer with fifa 12. its closer to a real match than youll ever get. i think the issue here is that people seem to be under the illusion that it should be arcadey. you can't have your cake and eat it... if you want it to play like a sim then you cant have the arcadey pes feel you want

I've never watched a game of football where the same players keep running into each other and falling over... or where it was deemed "tactical" to jockey a player for 50 yards before stepping aside when he takes a shot (see shoddy AI - on all levels).

Plus the physics of how the ball moves is far from accurate. This is my largest concern of the lot. The ball moves so slowly most of the time, especially when it's in the air.

I want a better word, but the one that keeps coming to mind regarding FIFA 12 is "Sticky". If someone told me the creators meant to make a game where the players, pitch and ball were covered in goo that hindered their speed and performance, then I'd totally think "Oh right, that explains it!".

carlcon

And finally, thanks to you lot who have made me, a 24 year old, feel about 70! :pac:

mossie

I'm not going to go into the "best game of all time argument" but I have a few observations to make. I've bought both FIFA and PES on PC over the last 6 or 7 years. I always played PES more, not necessarily because it was better, but because for some reason FIFA invariably gave me a headache - literally - when I played more than one or two games. I have no idea why this was so. Last year I bought an xbox and FIFA11 and bought PES for PC. I played FIFA far more often and enjoyed it more than PES.

This year I bought FIFA12 on release day and so far I am somewhat disappointed. The new defensive system is strange and takes getting used to but I'm improving. I think it's easier to find and make space offensively which I like, but less easy to score, and the goalies are maybe less superhuman (no bad thing). The penalty system is a disaster, and I find it almost impossible to score with a header or from a set piece. All of these can be positives or negatives depending on what you want from the game.

What seems to have gone backwards big time is the AI. Playing against the computer I find , several times in a game, I can jockey an opponent from almost on my end line almost the full length of the pitch where he then kicks the ball out of play. Passing is hit and miss, I will aim at a player for a pass and the player passing regularly tries to pass to a totally different player, usually hidden behind an opponent, or even in a different direction or the player being passed to stands waiting while an opponent cuts out the pass and other issues. So far I haven't tried online because I want to get the hang of defending first and I've played weaker computer opponents but not enjoying it anything like as much as FIFA 11.

Maybe I will like it more as I play it more, but right now it's frustrating. I will probably buy PES too but the demo isn't giving me a whole lot of hope. Overall for me FIFA 11 is still a better game, at least for now.

carlcon

I'm trying a Career mode where I just control one player now just to mix things up a bit to help me find things I like.

Would REALLY help if any of you have a control guide, since the in-game game gives no info at all about what the symbols are above my head.

I don't know if I'm calling for the ball, or telling my team I'm marking the opponent on the ball, or anything like that. I just see a head silhouette, or a "B" or "A", depending what I press.

I understand the yellow arrows are telling me I'm out of position, and the red circles show who I should mark, but other than that, it's far from obvious.

Not having a full control booklet is just silly, especially since the in-game thing barely covers half of what you need to know.

RandolphEsq

As a long time PS1 and PS2 PES fanboy, I have been let down by all PES on the PS3. Not one is anywhere near the high standards set by PES on the earlier consoles. I didn't switch to FIFA overnight though. FIFA 09 was enjoyable, especially Virtual Pro but the gameplay felt sluggish and too predictable. Last year FIFA 10 was €4 second hand so I bought it. That was me sold on FIFA. Didn't buy FIFA 11 but PES 2011. Sold PES 2011 2 months later because FIFA 10 was so much more enjoyable. PES was an arcadey game with stupid animations and ball physics. I boguht FIFA 12 now and have gotten into it completely. At first it seemed a little sluggish, but all the best PES were sluggish until you got into them, so now that I have gotten into it I think it is class. It is so realistic and has such a 'random' feel to the gameplay e.g. dribbling with the ball straight at a defender automatically meant you would be tackled but now you might nutmeg them, get tackled, be able to tap it deftly past them etc. FIFA 12 is full of this. Online play is obviously far superior to PES, and the game modes (Virtual Pro, Career and Ultimate Team) are also engaging. The authenticity, though not a huge negative aspect to PES, is a huge positive to FIFA. Playing a Ligue 1 match really feels like a Ligue 1 match you watch on the tv, likewise with an English League 2 match.

Spazdarn

I enjoyed FIFA 10, didn't really enjoy either of the two games last year (Pro and FIFA 11) and have bought this year, and I can't put down pro evolution and couldn't give a **** about Fifa for some reason...

ricero

the defending is a bit suspect this year. heard theres a way to change it back to the old way is this true ?

GTR63

ricero wrote: »

the defending is a bit suspect this year. heard theres a way to change it back to the old way is this true ?

Go into settings, then xbox 360 controller and change defending from tactical defending to Legacy defending.

conormac

Ok here's an aside. Surely the World XI selection is some kind mistake, is there any way of changing the team? I think Messi might have more of a right to be there than Carrick...

Overall, I think the game will be an improvement on previous versions once the new controls become instinct rather than effort

amacachi

Some of the AI stuff is chronic in the demo anyway. Defenders running into each other and taking other out leaving a big gap for the computer to play into. I'm crap at all video games but Semi-Pro is nearly too easy while Professional is far too hard.

Grayditch

I cannot defend to save my life in FIFA 12, but for the first time ever, some people can't defend against me. I'm scoring in losses now. Real goals.

Grayditch

Well. Not real goals, obviously.

carlcon

I've found the games saving grace; you can improve the players pace, their shot speed, and quality of keepers.

They're all set to 50, and you can increase or decrease each between 0 and 100.

I've made everything faster and keepers better. Has improved the realism dramatically for me.

thorbarry

carlcon wrote: »

I've found the games saving grace; you can improve the players pace, their shot speed, and quality of keepers.

They're all set to 50, and you can increase or decrease each between 0 and 100.

I've made everything faster and keepers better. Has improved the realism dramatically for me.

Have you played online at all? Thats where the fun us, playing against the computer is no fun at all

Here is a quick defending tutorial which really helped me alot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=talBIzfcvIA

TripleAce

I got Fifa 12 for iPad 2, playing Manager Mode it keeps crashing. I usually go through the first 2-3 games, then all of a sudden it starts "Saving" and get stuck there and there is nothing i can do about it. I tried re-installing the application but have the same problem
Any advice?