UFC 140 - Bones vs Machida??

weemcd

Link

Dana White wrote:

Alright Toronto!!! Dec 10th UFC 140 tix go on sale next weekend and ur main event is Bones Jones vs Machida!!!

Any thoughts on this? Stylisticly Machida has proved tricky for many opponents, does he have the answer to the Jon Jones puzzle? Will Jones decimate Machida with strikes reminscent of Machida - Shogun II?

Will Rashad Evans EVER get to fight for the belt again? Has Machida even done anything to deserve a title shot of late?

spurskiely

Cant see anyone touching Jones for a long time to come .

empacher

beat me to it. War Machida.

Ush1

Two words.....the f*ck????

I know Rashad had something minor wrong with his hand but certainly didn't think it would prevent him fighting Jones. This is absolutely crazy unless Rashads injury has become more severe.

Machida does not deserve a title shot yet. He was on a 2 fight(3 really) losing streak then knocked out Randy Couture who was like, 90 years old.

Danas twitter been hacked? Still think it will be an interesting fight but doesn't make sense to me.

scudzilla

Wow, don't think Lyoto deserves a shot just yet, look at his last 4 fights

Beat Shogun by decision (IMO Shogun won)

Got destroyed by Shogun

Lost to Dampage

Beat Randy (48yrs old and FAR from the Randy we all know and loved)

How come Rashad ain't gettin the shot?

spurskiely

Who knows . But fight defo wont have same hype .

the_doctor199

Looks to me like they wanted a big belt at the Toronto show and Jones was the only holder available, Rashad wasn't so they got Machida on board. Such bad luck for Rashad, again.

weemcd

Alot of people in agreement that Lyoto hasn't done anything close to enough recently to earn another title shot. I would have preferred that the next LHW title fight was held until Rashad had the chance to get the shot he has earned, twice now by my count. Failing that the winnder of Rua/Hendo makes alot more sense.

I don't see the need for Jones to get back in the cage so soon, against an opponent who no one in their right mind would rank as #1 or even #2 contender.

Fair play to Bones (who I do not like) for taking another fight so soon, but this is most certainly not against the best opponent.

icanplaydrums

I agree that Rashad is probably a more worthy contender. At the same time I'm excited for this fight. I hope Machida makes it a good fight and hurts Jones at the very least.

ollieo

the_doctor199 wrote: »

Such bad luck for Rashad, again.

Rashad's bad luck started when he decided to sit out and wait for his title shot against Shogun instead of fighting incase he lost! He should have kept fighting while he was healthy like Dos Santos did.

I'm not a fan of Rashad but was looking forward to his fight with Jones.

UFC must be stuck, Machida has done nothing to deserve a title shot, he's 1-2 in his last 3 fights. I think Jones will destroy him, Machida won't be able to touch Jones through his reach.

Xlami

I know Shogun was champ but Rashad has been ****ed again and again by the UFC for the last 2 years.

1. Was supposed to right Rampage in a No. 1 contender match after TUF but Rampage pulled out to film A-Team. He headlined 108 even though it was a loose loose situation.

2. He beat Rampage and was then made wait over 9 months to fight Shogun.

3. He got injured and his team mate took his spot, he was then promised a title fight at 133.

4. Jones pulled out of 133 and instead of prosponing the fight 2months they gave Rashad another opponent.

5. Rashad beats Ortiz and Jones beat Rampage the two look set to meet again but because Rashad is not 100% they give Jones another opponent instead of pospoing the fight 2months.

I'm not even the biggest Rashad fan but it's incredible. Since when does 1-2 give you any right to compete for a title. Can't get my head around this. I know injuries happen but anyone who calls this bad luck on Rashad's part is extremely naive. Dana White has seriously ****ed him over.

Logical Fallacy

I'm waiting for all the Interneters who will claim Rashad is ducking Jones...oh wait...that one only works one way.

On a serious note...this is ****ed, i want to see Jones and Rashad fight.

scudzilla

Ah come on, we all know they're keeping Jones v Rashad for the Paddy's Day Dublin card :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

This is weird..
From what I gather on BJ Penn's link Rashad has an injured thumb and cannot fight at UFC 140 so Machida has been called up.

Looking at Jones Twitter he said Rashad asked for the fight to be at 140 Jones said yes and then Rashad pulled out.

So I don't know what is really happening here but one thing that is certain here is Jones v Machida and I am absolutely pumped for this fight!

I don't care whether or not Machida deserves this fight I'm just delighted it's happening. Personally I think Machida's striking and evasiveness will pose a problem to Jones but I think Jones will TKO Machida eventually.

MrStuffins

Xlami wrote: »

I know Shogun was champ but Rashad has been ****ed again and again by the UFC for the last 2 years.

Really?

1. Was supposed to right Rampage in a No. 1 contender match after TUF but Rampage pulled out to film A-Team. He headlined 108 even though it was a loose loose situation.

Rampage's fault, not UFC's. He's a professional fighter, he fought Silva. Beating Thiago Silva is no lose-lose situation.

2. He beat Rampage and was then made wait over 9 months to fight Shogun.

Shogun was injured, had surgery. Not UFC's fault

3. He got injured and his team mate took his spot, he was then promised a title fight at 133.

He got injured, not UFC's fault. UFC needed to fill the gap, just because Rashad is the type of gimp person who wouldn't fight a team mate if it meant winning a world title, doesn't make it UFC's fault.

I'd also like to add that Rashad completely threw his toys out of the pram in this instance. Fighting team-mates doesn't seem to be a problem for GSP and Carlos Condit!

4. Jones pulled out of 133 and instead of prosponing the fight 2months they gave Rashad another opponent.

Because he's a professional fighter. Why shouldn't he fight?

5. Rashad beats Ortiz and Jones beat Rampage the two look set to meet again but because Rashad is not 100% they give Jones another opponent instead of pospoing the fight 2months.

"Not 100%" doesn't cut it here. He was injured! He was injured enough to not only keep him from fighting Jones in Sept, but not he won't even be fit enough to fight at UFC 140. Not to mention that through all of this, Dana White had been vocal in saying that Rashad is definitely next in line. They even brought him into the cage after BOTH of Jones' title fights!

I'm not even the biggest Rashad fan but it's incredible. Since when does 1-2 give you any right to compete for a title. Can't get my head around this. I know injuries happen but anyone who calls this bad luck on Rashad's part is extremely naive. Dana White has seriously ****ed him over.

How? How has he been screwing him? Rashad was the one who decided that instead of fighting like he should, he would sit out and wait around for a title shot! Bad idea, he's had nothing but bad luck since!

All it's been has been bad luck. All of the instances you've pointed out above are down to luck and nothing to do with UFC. Dana is not out to get Rashad!

ATMatm

Anyone read the story? Rashad just got pins removed from his hand, there was limited chance he could fight at 140. Jones is still 24, he should still be fighting regularly. He's HUGE right now and people will pay big money to see him fight.

There's an in-built storyline for Rashad regardless of who wins. He'll be fine. He'll be in the cage afterwards in another AWESOME suit and everyone will yell and scream that they can't wait for either fight.

DeVore

Jones vs Machida is interesting enough to hook me. Not as interesting as Evans but ok...

Machida needs to be back to the old days of being the puzzle no one could solve. I hate to say it, because I dont like the style, but he needs to polish off his awesome counter-punch.

But I dont think it will be enough. I'm a a fan of Machida and cool enough on Jones until I see more of him, but I think my boy is gonna be over powered by the sheer size, speed and strength of Jones.

But if it IS an upset.... what an upset hahah. He'd dethrone the golden kid and line up a fight with Evans!

Still... I dont see Jones losing this but he has to be careful, Machida is not to be underestimated.

DeV.

El Guapo!

I really feel bad for Rashad now. After this long of a wait, when he finally does get his shot he better make it count!
I dunno how they gave Machida the shot, he doesn't deserve it yet. Its a strange move. I actually have little or no interest in watching this fight (not a fan of Machida anyway)
I'd have preferred somebody else to step in, although I realise there's not many more options. But Machida?? Really?? I'd have been happier seeing Phil Davis getting a shot!!

DeVore

Yeah, I gotta admit it seems strange but Bones is clearing out the division at the moment. There really arent a lot of options!

DeV.

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

Fighting team-mates doesn't seem to be a problem for GSP and Carlos Condit!/QUOTE]

I was looking into that and Condit has a great approach to the subject.
"I'm in MMA to fight, not to make friends"

Although Condit seems to be getting the raw end of the deal.

Ariel Helwani: Greg, two of your star fighters are going to fight each other in October. What will do you?
Greg Jackson: Teammate protocols are pretty clear in this situation so everybody knows what happening. I step out, the other coaches -- John [Danaher], Phil [Nurse] and Firas [Zahabi] -- will take care of GSP and probably [Mike] Winkeljohn and some of the other guys here will take care of Carlos. But I step out of it, so I won't be cornering either guy. They'll fight each other. Those are the new teammate protocols. We knew this would be coming -- it will probably be coming again --but this time we are very well prepared.

Or is this just because they're who GSP trains with on a daily/weekly basis?

Back to the thread though

Machida doesn't deserve a shot but who else is there to fight?
Davis isn't ready (imo) and injured, Rashad is injured, Rampage just lost, Shogun is fighting Hendo. Everyone else is either on a loss or not ready. They need to keep Bones on TV to keep interest up, he's **** hot atm and that's all they're interested in.

mooeire

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/10/05/dana-white-talks-ufc-136-storylines-jon-jones-and-spike-counter/

Dana white was hinting that JJ was looking for more money so he prob wants to fight asap so he can renagotiate his contract quicker...

El Guapo!

Here's what Jon Jones had to say about it:

UFC president Dana White dropped a bombshell on Thursday afternoon when he announced that Lyoto Machida, not Rashad Evans, would meet Jon Jones at UFC 140 for the UFC light heavyweight title in Toronto.

MMAFighting.com spoke to Jones after the news broke about why he is fighting Machida instead of Evans and his thoughts on the new opponent.

Ariel Helwani: How did this fight come about?
Jon Jones: The way the fight came about was Dana called me into his office just a few days ago and he asked me to fight Rashad Evans at UFC 140. Without hesitation I said, Absolutely. There's nothing I want to do more than to get past this Rashad Evans chapter in my career because it's been a nuisance. He's been the antagonist in my career. So, I'm predicting that maybe Rashad thought that I would turn the fight down, knowing that I just got done finishing my title fight. I'm sure he thought that I would say no to him and I'm sure he would have went with the approach of, Oh well, Jon Jones is ducking me again; he turns down the fight in nine weeks. To his surprise, I took the fight, and after I took the fight, he decides that his hand isn't ready and he's going to need more time. So, with me already agreeing with Dana that I would take a fight at UFC 140, Dana called me back and said, Hey, listen, Rashad decided that he can't compete at UFC 140, what would think about fighting Lyoto Machida? And I said, Absolutely. My feet were swollen after my fight, but they are healed now, and I want to fight. My health is good, I'm a young guy, and I want to fight. So I took the fight against Lyoto in nine weeks from now. This is four fights in 10 months against three former champions in the same year. I don't think that's ever been done.

Did you tell the UFC that since Evans wasn't ready to fight in December that you would rather wait a month or two to fight him so you can finally put this beef behind you?
Well, Dana White basically needed someone to save 140. I didn't necessarily want to fight at 140, but because it was Rashad, I said, You know what? I would take the fight in nine weeks. I'm already in shape. I already know what I want to do. Rashad, predicting that I would say no, he kind of kicked himself in the butt because I said yes, he turns around and says, Oh, I didn't expect Jon to say yes. I don't want to fight him that soon. So in reality, he's kind of the one who's ducking the fight. I feel like he's ducking the fight.

So you think he was trying to force your hand so you would look bad in the fans' eyes, but you then forced his hand?
Exactly. 100 percent that's what I'm trying to get at. He's tried to call me out on nine weeks notice. Obviously, who wants to fight on nine weeks notice? I just got a new car, I want to drive that around. I want to hang out with my family and relax and sleep in my own bed for once. And now Rashad calls me out, predicting that I would say no, to make me look like I was ducking him again, and I say yes, and now he says, Oh, I didn't know he would say yes. I don't want to fight him. He called Dana White, asked for 140, Dana White called me and said Rashad wants this fight. I gave him the fight he wanted and then he pulled out.

Is a part of you disappointed that this rivalry will now drag on even longer?
Obviously all my energy is on Lyoto Machida now. Rashad is just a small part of my being right now. I don't really think about Rashad that much. But it annoys me. The reason why I took the fight on nine weeks notice is because I wanted it to be over. Like I said, Rashad is the biggest antagonist of my career. He's the biggest hater. He has so much envy. I don't write him, he writes me. He harrasses me pretty much. He is so envious and so jealous and it's so obvious, he doesn't even try to hide it. And after I beat him, he's going to hate me even more. So, pretty much the only reason I took the fight is because I thought I was fighting Rashad, and now that I'm fighting Lyoto, obviously I'll get up for Lyoto because Lyoto is a worthy and awesome opponent, way better than Rashad Evans, I think. So to anyone who thinks I would duck Rashad by not waiting, let them know that there's nothing more than I would want to do than fight Rashad Evans. Dana asked me to fight at UFC 140, so I am doing this for the UFC.

Do you think Rashad should have to fight someone else now before fighting you?
Yeah. Obviously, I want to fight him. But how long are you going to get to wait and sit around? You go from not fighting for a whole year, and then you get a fight like Tito Oritz, which everybody knows where Tito is at in his career, and now he just gets to sit around and be the No. 1 contender again? It looks like he's the one that's sitting on his glory and riding his glory. There's tons of guys out there. I think when he gets better, he should have to fight Phil Davis or Dan Henderson. How does he get the right to just sit around and say who he is going to fight and when he is going to fight and continue to be the No. 1 contender while everybody else fights all year long?

What do you think about fighting Machida?
I feel great about the fight. Lyoto, I respect him dearly. He's an awesome, awesome guy. I love the way that he carries himself outside of the Octagon. He has a little bit more of that warrior spirit, something that I believe I have, as well. I'm excited to fight somebody with honor. Somebody who respects this sport. You know, fighting a guy like 'Rampage,' all the talk and making our sport look bad. Fighting a guy like Rashad, all the talking, you know, it's not WWF, it's the UFC. Lyoto understands that. So I'm excited to not have to be forced to talk so much. Not be forced to degrade my opponent verbally, but to compete against him the way it's supposed to be.

I think Lyoto Machida is a tougher fight for me than Rashad Evans. I'm fighting the guy who knocked out Rashad Evans. Lyoto is a a completely different test for me. He's the first southpaw that I've ever fought. Rashad sat out a whole year and waited for Shogun. I'm not taking off a year. I think Rashad is the one that needs to be questioned. His credibility needs to be questioned. He said he had a knee injury, now it's a thumb injury. What's it going to be next? He's going to have a toe injury? I'm not the one who took off a whole year to wait for a fight. I'm fighting in between fights. I'm looking to fight as much as possible

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/10/06/jon-jones-explains-why-he-is-fighting-lyoto-machida-at-ufc-140/

mooeire

Dean09 wrote: »

Here's what Jon Jones had to say about it:


http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/10/06/jon-jones-explains-why-he-is-fighting-lyoto-machida-at-ufc-140/

Beat me to it!!!

Mellor

Ush1 wrote: »

I know Rashad had something minor wrong with his hand but certainly didn't think it would prevent him fighting Jones. This is absolutely crazy unless Rashads injury has become more severe.

something minor???
He had steel pins put in his hand. it was his call not to fight.

Xlami wrote: »

I know Shogun was champ but Rashad has been ****ed again and again by the UFC for the last 2 years.

1. Was supposed to right Rampage in a No. 1 contender match after TUF but Rampage pulled out to film A-Team. He headlined 108 even though it was a loose loose situation.

2. He beat Rampage and was then made wait over 9 months to fight Shogun.

3. He got injured and his team mate took his spot, he was then promised a title fight at 133.

4. Jones pulled out of 133 and instead of prosponing the fight 2months they gave Rashad another opponent.

5. Rashad beats Ortiz and Jones beat Rampage the two look set to meet again but because Rashad is not 100% they give Jones another opponent instead of pospoing the fight 2months.

I'm not even the biggest Rashad fan but it's incredible. Since when does 1-2 give you any right to compete for a title. Can't get my head around this. I know injuries happen but anyone who calls this bad luck on Rashad's part is extremely naive. Dana White has seriously ****ed him over.

You are pretty muh wrong on every point.
His hand was in a bad way, "not 100%" is BS. It's his call not to fight now.

DeVore

Wow.... he says all that and then comes out with:

You know, fighting a guy like 'Rampage,' all the talk and making our sport look bad. Fighting a guy like Rashad, all the talking, you know, it's not WWF, it's the UFC. Lyoto understands that. So I'm excited to not have to be forced to talk so much.Not be forced to degrade my opponent verbally , but to compete against him the way it's supposed to be.


Jeez... didnt stop you for the last page, mate!

I aint hating on Jones but he's not behind the door when it comes to being mouthy imho. Nothing wrong with that but there is something wrong if you then turn around and say you dont.

DeV.

Mellor

DeVore wrote: »

Jeez... didnt stop you for the last page, mate!

Eh?
Maybe I'm missing something, but where was he verbally degrading Machida?

JoeyJJ

Love this fight, I know Lyoto should have probably needed a win or two more before getting another shot but I don't really care, he isn't jumping ahead of me in the pecking order.

Lyoto may be able to bridge the distance as he can move quickly and has a unique style among the top level MMA guys. He will defo want to keep it standing, however it could be a case of two counter punchers waiting for the other to make the move. Jones will prob be happy to clinch and dirty box.

If Lyoto wins Evans might get pissed off again, UFC might give Jones a rematch ahead of his shot. Will defo watch this one live if I can. Can't wait for it.

Ush1

Mellor wrote: »

something minor???
He had steel pins put in his hand. it was his call not to fight.


You are pretty muh wrong on every point.
His hand was in a bad way, "not 100%" is BS. It's his call not to fight now.

Well if his injury is that severe surely it's not his call, surely it's a doctors?

Daz_07

Ush1 wrote: »

Well if his injury is that severe surely it's not his call, surely it's a doctors?

Evans said he thought he would be fine by 140, but then when they took the metal pins out the docs said it would be another 3 weeks of rehab on his hand before he could start using it for anything - puts him with no training til the end of october/start of november so he said there was no way he could be ready for December 10.
So cos d UFC wanted Jones to headline 140 regardless so they made a call to put Machida in.. Tink it'l be a great fight though ! Can Jones to beat 3 former champions in 1 year?!

Do you think Rashad should have to fight someone else now before fighting you?
Yeah. Obviously, I want to fight him. But how long are you going to get to wait and sit around? You go from not fighting for a whole year, and then you get a fight like Tito Oritz, which everybody knows where Tito is at in his career, and now he just gets to sit around and be the No. 1 contender again? It looks like he's the one that's sitting on his glory and riding his glory. There's tons of guys out there. I think when he gets better, he should have to fight Phil Davis or Dan Henderson. How does he get the right to just sit around and say who he is going to fight and when he is going to fight and continue to be the No. 1 contender while everybody else fights all year long?

After reading that interview with Jones I'm just thinking about how people don't think Machida deserves a title shot..
Does Rashad deserve to be Number one contender for so long?

He's had 3 fights since he lost the belt (I know he's been injured a couple times) and the only fight he's impressed me in was the Tito fight.

I thought that both Rampage and Silva should have finished him, they had their chances to, but Rashad didn't impress me in either of those fights.

Oh_Noes

I like this fight much more than the Evans fight. I don't buy into the idea that Machida doesn't deserve it either. He was champion a very short time ago, was the last champion to defend his belt, he had a very close call with Rampage and absolutely destroyed Evans, who was originally slated to fight Jones.

Machida might have had a dip in form but it's not like he's retiring or past his best, he was always going to be in the mix for a title shot sooner or later and I honestly think he has far more tools to give Jones a fight than Evans will ever have.

I can't see Jones having his hands in Machida's face for the whole fight or blasting him with leg kicks. If Machida is at his best, he is more capable than anyone else in the division on staying out of Jones' range and attacking on the break.

Evans should take another fight, and another one after that, and another if necessary. I think it's time he was nudged out of the picture until he earns a title shot again, time passes and it seems to be passing him by. He fought once in 2009, twice in 2010 and once in 2011. That's four fights. Jones has fought eight times in the same time period and has another scheduled before the end of the year. Machida has fought six times in that time period: lost two and won four. Still more wins than Evans in the last two years.

It is disappointing in terms of the rivalry between Jones and Evans and the whole drama there but this is a much better fight. Maybe we will get another "you ruined my special night" moment if Jones wins and Evans gets in the cage.

Mellor

Ush1 wrote: »

Well if his injury is that severe surely it's not his call, surely it's a doctors?

Who do you think he consulted before telling the UFC he couldn't fight
:rolleyes: