Has Gay Mitchell's Vote collapsed due to FG attacks on Martin Mc Guinness?

HellFireClub

It seems to me that it might be reasonable enough to conclude that people have gotten a bit sick of listening to the FG heavyweights, (Phil Hogan just to name one), yet again threatening the nation as to the dire consequences that might well follow if we go not vote as we are told. In this case I recall over the last few days, us being warned by the FG electoral machine that we had better not vote for Martin Mc Guinness in case we might upset the multinationals that are based here. The same form was evident from FG, and indeed all political parties during Lisbon I and Lisbon II.

I find this kind of electioneering to be absolutely disgusting. If we were to follow this kind of logic to it's natural conclusion, we would arrest and charge those who attend the annual Wolfe Tone commeration ceremony and we would take Michael Collins out of his grave in Glasnevin and bring him somewhere out into the North Sea, and give him a Bin Laden funeral.

I'm personally very glad that these kind of prepubsecent attacks, that do nothing other than belittle the electorate, appear to have come full circle now for the FG campaign and their man.

super_furry

His vote hasn't collapsed - it was never there.

HellFireClub

super_furry wrote: »

His vote hasn't collapsed - it was never there.

Well it appears to have dropped substantially from where in whence stood as the man would say!

Callan57

The should have selected Mairéad and they would have walked it

K-9

HellFireClub wrote: »

Well it appears to have dropped substantially from where in whence stood as the man would say!

Probably partly due to the attacks, but I'd say mostly due to his non performance.

lugha

Callan57 wrote: »

The should have selected Mairéad and they would have walked it

IMO they certainly went with the wrong candidate. Possibly Mairéad, but certainly Pat Cox would be a better bet.

I am pretty sure that whoever the FG candidate was, they would have had plenty to say on the theme "there's something about Marty".

But politically, you wonder what dividend is in it for a FG candidate. Unless you are a very confused soul politically, you are not likely to consider changing your vote from SF to FG! If his attacks are working, it is someone else who is benefiting.

mike65

I don't think he was ever in the race really.

Fine Gael, en masse have never been behind him, the public view him as a dull marginal figure, the attacks on McGuinness were clumsy.

Manach

FG seemed to have chosen the wrong candidate. For instance, with Mr Cox I might not have agreed totally with his policies, but his high-profile in Europe might have lead to more debate in the EU context instead of the sterile debate about a certain other candidate's history.

Sunnyisland

He hasn't got an likeability factor at all,he never smiles and comes across very condescending and defensive and a know it all attitude,Instead of focusing on MMg right at the start and the only one to do so, he would have been better of concentrating on his own campaign and getting his message out there to the people.No one likes bullys trying to tell us joe public who to vote for and especially not politician bullys.Fg fcuked up this one.

Nodin

lugha wrote: »

IMO they certainly went with the wrong candidate. Possibly Mairéad, but certainly Pat Cox would be a better bet.
...........

Ye wha? He's almost as unlikable as Mitchell, without even the benefit of party loyalty behind him...He'd still have the parachute attached by the time he'd hit the campaign trail.

HellFireClub

Nodin wrote: »

Ye wha? He's almost as unlikable as Mitchell, without even the benefit of party loyalty behind him...He'd still have the parachute attached by the time he'd hit the campaign trail.

I'd say he (Pat "Mr Europe" Cox), is more detested, Europe in bits in terms of the economy and the man who foisted this grand egotistical project upon the Irish people, trying to get elected to the last of the handy numbers because Europe are now probably sick of him?!? Nare a chance I think, he'd be chased out of people's gardens, he thought he had it in the bag as Ireland's, "Mr. Europe", he's a political prostitute who will join whatever party he reckons might help get him elected into a well paid office...

Sir Oxman

Well, Gay's previously pathetic low polling has properly imploded - it's a mixture of him being a very unpleasant person and unlikeable to not only the public but FG members and certain FG figures very foolish scaremongering.

He's a horrible toad and I'm delighted for him!

View

Nodin wrote: »

Ye wha? He's almost as unlikable as Mitchell, without even the benefit of party loyalty behind him...

And the benefit to Mitchell of party loyalty from FG is what exactly?

He might as well be running on a FF ticket for all the effort FG seem to be putting in for him. Indeed, he's probably be higher in the opinion polls...

Liam Byrne

His vote nearly went up by one when I saw him start to point out a few valid home truths (I wouldn't call it "attacking" considering it was a valid point) to McGuinness....the first politician in years to actually say what I was thinking!

He then immediately completely undermined that thought by screwing up his point, so - at least personally speaking - it remains unchanged because I won't be voting for him.

Nodin

View wrote: »

And the benefit to Mitchell of party loyalty from FG is what exactly?

.........

Currently around 9-10%, I'd say.

niallers1

There is an article in the Irish Times today which puts things in a more balanced perspective.

I think there has been a serious lack of perspective and balance in most if not all the criticism against MMcG to date.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...305329182.html

pubview

This was FG's big chance to finally wrest the Park from FF. Even Labour have had a turn on the swings with Mary Robinson and it looked like at last the time was ripe for Enda's man or woman.

If you had to write a manual on How To Lose Elections & Alienate Voters, you could do no better than study FG's performance here.

Sonnenblumen

Callan57 wrote: »

The should have selected Mairéad and they would have walked it

Crap. Just goes to show, you can never trust the farmers party. Hypocrites.

keysersoze0330

Mitchell should concentrate on his own policies rather than attacking others. I'd say Kenny is raging at the way he has conducted himself throughout this whole debacle. I'm sure others like myself who haven't decided yet who to vote for, can stroke this man off our already whittled-down lists.

View

Nodin wrote: »

Currently around 9-10%, I'd say.

He'd probably be on that if he was running as an independent.

Based on the current numbers, it would appear that FG have decided to follow FF's example and sit this election out!

Nodin

View wrote: »

He'd probably be on that if he was running as an independent.

...only if he has a large extended family.

It is rather a bizzarre set of circumstances that a large and long lived party can only come up with Pat Cox and Gay Mitchell as frontrunners for an election thats very personality based........

Zubeneschamali

keysersoze0330 wrote: »

I'd say Kenny is raging

No. he's laughing. Kenny was overruled, and the FG party hierarchy picked Mitchell over his objections. If Mitchell won, it would undermine Kenny.

If Mitchell crashes and burns (as seems likely), Enda's position is strengthened.

LordSutch

niallers1 wrote: »

There is an article in the Irish Times today which puts things in a more balanced perspective.

I think there has been a serious lack of perspective and balance in most if not all the criticism against MMcG to date.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...305329182.html

The main contributor being Danny Morrisson :rolleyes:

View

Nodin wrote: »

...only if he has a large extended family.

Outpolling Dana isn't hard. A deaf mute could probably do it as they wouldn't express any off-putting political opinions...

thebman

keysersoze0330 wrote: »

Mitchell should concentrate on his own policies rather than attacking others. I'd say Kenny is raging at the way he has conducted himself throughout this whole debacle. I'm sure others like myself who haven't decided yet who to vote for, can stroke this man off our already whittled-down lists.

Except his own policies are essentially Euro-friendly policies, socially equivalent to Dana and economically kind of irrelevant for the presidency IMO but the same as his party no doubt.

So he is essentially election poison no matter what he does IMO. Europe ain't popular, Dana style conservative Christian social opinions ain't popular and austerity isn't popular.

I'm surprised he can get 10% TBH. Enda was against him so he is laughing. Once again FG show that without Kenny they are nothing, boring and all as he is, he holds the party together and is more in touch with the publics thinking than the Mitchell supporters are anyway. If anything Kenny opposing Mitchell should boost his leadership in the party which was under challenge not too long ago.

CDfm

FG are not canvassing or supporting their man.

The whole situation is a farce.

SilverLiningOK

mitchell coming in last would the ideal situation. Can that happen ? It would be absolutely hilarious. Would he do stomping off scene like michael the mullah ? Will there be a car waiting outside the count centre ? Will he cover his head with a brown paper bag ?

CDfm

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

mitchell coming in last would the ideal situation. Can that happen ? It would be absolutely hilarious. Would he do stomping off scene like michael the mullah ? Will there be a car waiting outside the count centre ? Will he cover his head with a brown paper bag ?

It could happen.

FG will pay dearly for this in the future.

GoldenTickets

Nobody likes a mud-slinger and that's all Mitchell is. If you're going to smear another candidate you have to have some tact to get away with it. Mitchell is a tact-free zone and he's getting his just desserts now.

He can't win the election on merit and it appears he can't win it by smearing the other candidates either so he's finished now.

Happy days!

thebman

It was obvious from the first polls before the nominations were finalised that he was never going to climb to win though, FG should have changed the candidate and taken the hit that would entail if they actually cared about the presidency.

They've never won it though and it would seem it is because they don't really care about it.

charlemont

He strikes me as intelligent but weak, If he wasn't so obsessed with MMG he may have had a better chance at getting his message across, He wont be getting a vote of me but that's not to say I dislike the man, I just think he is acting like a headless chicken since MMG entered the race.

pubview

Maybe Bertie was right about one thing :

"Stop waffling. You're a waffler. You've been years around here, waffling."

johngalway

pubview wrote: »

Maybe Bertie was right about one thing :

"Stop waffling. You're a waffler. You've been years around here, waffling."

Damian Kiberds lack of objectivity shone through yet again today talking about Newstalks listeners questions to the candidates. Rattling on about how there'd be no waffling nor negativity allowed in the answers. Considering how biased he was against Gay Mitchell in the interview with him and MMG I wonder which candidate he could have been aiming that at? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

CDfm

keysersoze0330 wrote: »

Mitchell should concentrate on his own policies rather than attacking others. I'd say Kenny is raging at the way he has conducted himself throughout this whole debacle. I'm sure others like myself who haven't decided yet who to vote for, can stroke this man off our already whittled-down lists.

How come.

Michael D Higgins is the Fine Gael candidate, I have seen no FG party support for Gay Mitchell.

keysersoze0330

CDfm wrote: »

How come.

Michael D Higgins is the Fine Gael candidate, I have seen no FG party support for Gay Mitchell.

He is a still a Fine Gael member, and his actions are not reflecting well on the FG party, be that fair or unfair.

CDfm

keysersoze0330 wrote: »

He is a still a Fine Gael member, and his actions are not reflecting well on the FG party, be that fair or unfair.

Fine Gael have not been behind him from the getgo and it will be seen as a vote against the current administration.

The message to all comers from now on will be that Fine Gael are beatable at all local and national elections.

@charlemont - he seems to be waiting for a campaign from his party and party support that is just not happening.

irishh_bob

HellFireClub wrote: »

Well it appears to have dropped substantially from where in whence stood as the man would say!

negative campaigning doesnt work in ireland like it does in the likes of the usa among republican ( american kind ) voters , irish people dont like to hear one person berating and condemning another canditate in a nasty and overbearing manner , that might work in the likes of north antrim or north carolina but not in ireland

i dont vote sinn fein but gay mitchell comes across as a waspish prick whenever hes in front of a mike , hes deeply unlikeable and resembles one of the unionist humourless puritans like jim allister

Mr.Micro

CDfm wrote: »

Fine Gael have not been behind him from the getgo and it will be seen as a vote against the current administration.

The message to all comers from now on will be that Fine Gael are beatable at all local and national elections.

Beatable by whom?.......FF? :D:D:D:D

KeithAFC

super_furry wrote: »

His vote hasn't collapsed - it was never there.

Sadly true.

Mr.Micro

irishh_bob wrote: »

negative campaigning doesnt work in ireland like it does in the likes of the usa among republican ( american kind ) voters , irish people dont like to hear one person berating and condemning another canditate in a nasty and overbearing manner , that might work in the likes of north antrim or north carolina but not in ireland

i dont vote sinn fein but gay mitchell comes across as a waspish prick whenever hes in front of a mike , hes deeply unlikeable and resembles one of the unionist humourless puritans like jim allister

Indeed FG would have been hard pressed to pick a worse morose candidate. Probably thought that just put the FG label on him and he will romp it.

guitarzero

Regardless of the content of his words which have little weight like much the rest of them, he has no charisma or charm. He's a deflated vertical object that conjures up zero enthusiasm or reaction. Despite Norris's skeletons in the closet he has such a way that would woe anyone. The reality is the presidency holds little impact on our society so why not choose a rogue with some fire and drama instead of the other potentials.

lugha

Nodin wrote: »

Ye wha? He's almost as unlikable as Mitchell, without even the benefit of party loyalty behind him...He'd still have the parachute attached by the time he'd hit the campaign trail.

He’s got more charisma than Mitchell (I know, low bar) and he presents and communicates better. And I don’t think he is particularly unlikeable, or not widely so.

Granted, party loyalty (misguided IMO) did cost him the nomination; I think he would have given Michael D. a run for his money.

irishh_bob

guitarzero wrote: »

Regardless of the content of his words which have little weight like much the rest of them, he has no charisma or charm. He's a deflated vertical object that conjures up zero enthusiasm or reaction. Despite Norris's skeletons in the closet he has such a way that would woe anyone. The reality is the presidency holds little impact on our society so why not choose a rogue with some fire and drama instead of the other potentials.

regardless of his pathalogical hatred of martin mc guinness , the guy comes across as a complete killjoy

KeithAFC

Some one said Mitchell will actually win on transfers.

guinnessdrinker

KeithAFC wrote: »

Some one said Mitchell will actually win on transfers.

Someone said that?

KeithAFC

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Someone said that?

Director of election apparently.

Liam Byrne

KeithAFC wrote: »

Some one said Mitchell will actually win on transfers.

Given that he's the second-least-objectionable candidate, I wouldn't be altogether surprised.

My votes probably won't go beyond the first two, although that would leave me with an uneasy choice - coming away not having done my utmost to keep McG out, or give a vote to Norris & the 2 FF candidates......it's gonna be a tough call!

LLU

If anyone was previously contemplating voting for Mitchell, somehow I don't think they changed their mind just because he was criticising mmg.
But hey, lets not miss an opportunity to whinge about how horrible everyone is being to poor Martin, bless.

Mr.Micro

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Given that he's the second-least-objectionable candidate, I wouldn't be altogether surprised.

My votes probably won't go beyond the first two, although that would leave me with an uneasy choice - coming away not having done my utmost to keep McG out, or give a vote to Norris & the 2 FF candidates......it's gonna be a tough call!

I know that is a tough one Liam. I do not think I could bring myself to vote for the SSSSSH FF candidates, but if it meant keeping McG out then I would force myself and seek counseling after.

LordSutch

charlemont wrote: »

He strikes me as intelligent but weak, If he wasn't so obsessed with MMG he may have had a better chance at getting his message across, He wont be getting a vote of me but that's not to say I dislike the man, I just think he is acting like a headless chicken since MMG entered the race.

Well it did occur to me at one stage that he was deiberately sent into the race to take down McGuinness, with the risk that he might sink too, and all for the greater good of having MMG out of the running. OK this may be a crazy throry? but if Gay hadn't highlighted McGuinness's past in such a verocious fashion, then who would have? none of the other candidates seem to have the bottle to cross swords with MMC, the Late Late Tubridy interview was wet & never even scratched the tough McGuinness outer shell, and I doubt that Vincent Browne would have got out his book collection if Gay hadn't highlighted & harped on & on about McGuinness's murky blood stained past.

Gay Mitchell may very well be toast in this contest, but thanks to Gay's constant attacks on McGuinness, everybody now knows that McGuinness was in the PIRA post 74', and thanks to Gay we also know that McGuinness takes the Queens shilling (as he would say), and it took Gay Mitchell to get this info out of the former PIRA man during the Dunphy interview. Well done Gay, who has more than likely sacrificed himself, but cleared the way to the Aras for either Michael D, or Sean Gallagher. And that's a good result in my book.

CDfm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Beatable by whom?.......FF? :D:D:D:D

Sean Gallagher is of that Ilk ,if I am not mistaken, now I have no connection with Fianna Fail but .........they has yous creamed. :pac: