1 joule law in Ireland

Siuin

How much is the 1 joule law enforced? Is it OK to go over the 330 fps limit for automatic airsoft guns?

Zomg Okay

No.

Puding

it is a hard limit in the republic we have no leeway im afraid, one joule, 328fps with .20g bbs

Lemming

Siuin wrote: »

How much is the 1 joule law enforced? Is it OK to go over the 330 328 fps limit for automatic airsoft guns?

FYP.

And as Zomg_okay said, leaving no room for interpretation; "no". <- note the full-stop after that "no"

edit: and Puding beat me to it with the 328fps bit

Witcher

The limit is 328fps with a .2g bb and if it's over that you have a firearm with no licence and the Gardai don't take kindly to that.

Edit: 4 posts all at 19:00:P

Leftyflip

1joule, 328fps with a 0.2g BB. No higher - that's it! Even 1fps over is illegal.

Siuin

What is the maximum acceptable FPS? Even for open fields?

Puding

hehe 4 posts all at the same time

Puding

Siuin wrote: »

What is the maximum acceptable FPS? Even for open fields?

the limit is to do with energy not fps, one joule is 328 with .20g bb, if you use lighter bb you will get a higher fps but then stability is going to drop off

Siuin

This is so lame. It's 450fps on fully automatic where I'm from
Is anyone trying to do anything to fix this?! It's crazily low

BioHazRd

The 1 joule law is just that - law.

There are no valid circumstances whereby you can have an airsoft device powered at greater than one joule, as it becomes then by definition, an unlicensed firearm. Posessing an unlicensed firearm in Ireland is frowned upon very severely by the authorities and could result in criminal prosecution.

This is why the IAA recommend that all sites chrono guns prior to gaming and all shops chrono their guns before sale. Personally, I would not play on a site that doesnt chrono, and if more people took that stance, we would be in a better place with self policing ensuring that nobody (be it on purpose or by accident) has an overpowered device.

In short, to answer your question succinctly, NO it is not ok to go over 1 joule (328 fps with a 0.2g BB).

Zomg Okay

Siuin wrote: »

Is anyone trying to do anything to fix this?! It's crazily low

"If its not broken, don't fix it."

Lemming

Siuin wrote: »

This is so lame. It's 450fps on fully automatic where I'm from

And what's your minimum engagement range with that fps dare I ask?

BioHazRd

Siuin wrote: »

This is so lame. It's 450fps on fully automatic where I'm from
Is anyone trying to do anything to fix this?! It's crazily low

You may consider it crazy, but we here in Ireland have managed quite well on 1 joule, thank you very much. We are not the only country to operate at this level, so we are ok with that.

As far as I am aware, there are no plans to address the issue of raising the limit in the future

sdanseo

There's an awful lot of scaremongering among the airsoft fanatics though too. Nobody has been convicted of an offence under the new rules (since 2006) and so everybody is scared ****less that one high-profile case of an airsoft device being misused will render the entire sport illegal for everyone. The focus is on that, rather than the individual consequences for any individual person. A very stupid way for an industry to operate, where all stakeholders have to be super-protective about letting someone buy a gun and fire it in the street because they could be out of business a year later as a result.

In reality, someone caught with an airsoft gun which is not capable of casing serious injury, that may say fire at 400fps with 0.2g bb, probably isn't going to have to familiarise themselves with a prison cell.

Firekitten

The vast majority of nations use 328, or there abouts. Thus one could say, your 450 on auto, is 'crazily high' to play devil's advocate (He has me on a rather good retainer)

Fix it? Why?

full auto at 450, with no engagement ranges would severely increase the agro level in airsoft, as well as injuries, leading to bad press, and severe fallings out between players. Its just not needed. Plus with the scale of most irish sites, where they are not skirmishing across open bush for the most part, 450 is a bit overkill.


*waits for topic to plumet downwards in a ball of fire.*

Siuin

Lemming wrote: »

And what's your minimum engagement range with that fps dare I ask?

5-10m -- I've been shot point blank with this stuff, it's fine

Zomg Okay wrote: »

"If its not broken, don't fix it."

hardware store can withstand it. It is not dangerous. It makes no sense to label a BB gun that can pierce a piece of cardboard as a firearm. The worst it can do is leave you with a red mark.

What about paintball? Paintball guns shoot at 3 joules. How is that OK?

Captain Chaos

Siuin wrote: »

What about paintball? Paintball guns shoot at 3 joules. How is that OK?

Paintball guns fire up to 17J and require a special licence.

Siuin

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Paintball guns fire up to 17J and require a special licence.

But you can still shoot people with it

Captain Chaos

Siuin wrote: »

But you can still shoot people with it

You can but under tight rules and site laws with a licence.

Airsoft devices cannot be licenced under Irish law or any other that I know of, hence the 1J limit and anything over is a fire arm. Paintball markers are classed as firearms in Irish law.

Witcher

Siuin wrote: »

But you can still shoot people with it

Yeah, nobody is saying an airsoft gun shooting 2 joules etc. is going to kill you, but the law says you can't have one at that energy. Period.

Leftyflip

You want higher energy, play paintball.
Irish airsoft is perfect at 1 joule. No need to go any higher.
5-10 meters at 450fps? Er, no thanks...

BioHazRd

There was a case recently where a person was convicted under the firearms act for possessing an airsoft device powered greater than 1 joule. Granted, he apparently "had form" and when his accomodation was raided, the gardai couldnt find anything other than the RIF, which when tested was above the limit, so they charged him in that respect rather than any other criminal offence (which they were probably looking for in the first place).

This happened a couple of months ago in Naas and was relayed to me while I was involved with the IAA by a person who was involved in the periphery of the case. (Therefore, all of the above should be treated as hearsay)

I dont like scaremongering, and this didnt make the national news probably because the journalists considered it irrelevant in the greater scheme of things, but how would they have reacted if it was a "respectable teeneager" in the dock rather than somebody a little more familiar with the workings of the court

Siuin

Leftyflip wrote: »

You want higher energy, play paintball.
Irish airsoft is perfect at 1 joule. No need to go any higher.
5-10 meters at 450fps? Er, no thanks...

450 fps at 10 meters is bad? How would you know? Ever got shot with that?
I can tell you from experience, it's fine. And it doesn't even happen since the game is handled at 40+ meters most of the time (since, well.. you can with this velocity).

330 fps makes sense in CQB. In open fields its just.. lame. No range, no accuracy, no fun.
What I don't understand is why no one is trying to fix this silly law.
If it's OK to shoot a 17j paintball gun at people, license or not, it's OK to shoot someone with a 1.7j airsoft gun. The bureaucracy of a license doesn't make it hurt less.

What about bolt action? Can snipers have high FPS? If so, why is that OK? Same BB flying at you.

Witcher

Siuin wrote: »

If it's OK to shoot a 17j paintball gun at people, license or not, it's OK to shoot someone with a 1.7j airsoft gun. The bureaucracy of a license doesn't make it hurt less.

Call the Department of Justice and the Gardai in the Phoenix Park and tell them. I can tell you now, they don't care what airsofters want/think/know.

What about bolt action? Can snipers have high FPS? If so, why is that OK? Same BB flying at you.

No. No airsoft gun can be over 1 Joule or 328fps...none...not pistols, not snipers, not aegs..none of them.

F.U.B.A.R

Siuin wrote: »

This is so lame. It's 450fps on fully automatic where I'm from
Is anyone trying to do anything to fix this?! It's crazily low

if ye dont like it go back where you came from and continue to enjoy it there!
we are perfectly happy with it so there is no need to fix anything
in Ireland you learn not to tamper with anything that actually works just fine
,without an silly stuff like hi-vis plastic bits caked all over the guns ,which isnt often the case here as laws and restrictions over here tend to kill allot
of joy

Zomg Okay

Siuin wrote: »

330 fps makes sense in CQB. In open fields its just.. lame. No range, no accuracy, no fun.

My AEG is somewhere around the 0.9-0.95J mark. I get more than enough range and accuracy.

Siuin wrote: »

What I don't understand is why no one is trying to fix this silly law.

Like I said already, it's not broken so it doesn't need to be fixed.

Siuin wrote: »

If it's OK to shoot a 17j paintball gun at people, license or not, it's OK to shoot someone with a 1.7j airsoft gun. The bureaucracy of a license doesn't make it hurt less.

No, it doesn't - but thats not the argument. They require a license, that license legalises them. Not having a license to sell alcohol doesn't make that alcohol non-alcoholic, just makes it illegal for you to sell it...

Siuin wrote: »

What about bolt action? Can snipers have high FPS? If so, why is that OK? Same BB flying at you.

Nope, they're the same limit. 1J all around.

Leftyflip

Siuin wrote: »

450 fps at 10 meters is bad? How would you know? Ever got shot with that?
I can tell you from experience, it's fine. And it doesn't even happen since the game is handled at 40+ meters most of the time (since, well.. you can with this velocity).
.

5 metres at 500 fps (the unreliability of a KJW M700...)

I hit 50 meters easily at .8 of a joule, with accuracy. As do many others in Irish airsoft. If you can't do that you're doing something wrong...

Siuin

Many thanks for the advice!

Looks like many guns will be left behind...!!

Decoy

Siuin wrote:

Looks like many guns will be left behind...!!

Is there any reason you wouldn't just swap out the springs to bring them down to 1 joule??

sliabh

sdeire wrote: »

In reality, someone caught with an airsoft gun which is not capable of casing serious injury, that may say fire at 400fps with 0.2g bb, probably isn't going to have to familiarise themselves with a prison cell.

There have been plenty of guns seized, tested and destroyed for being over 1J though.

Siuin

Decoy wrote: »

Is there any reason you wouldn't just swap out the springs to bring them down to 1 joule??

Hmmm suppose I could... I dunno, I think I might be better off leaving the better ones at home for when I go on visits- I've got a pretty solid group there and paid too much money on them to go screwing with them now. Might being the lighter ones over, or just rent them altogether.

Are there any places in Ireland were one can just join up with a group to play (just as a once off to see what it's like)?

Decoy

Siuin wrote:

Are there any places in Ireland were one can just join up with a group to play (just as a once off to see what it's like)?

Most decent sites operate in that exact way, just show up & play with whoever is there on the day. However, not all sites do rentals so you wouldbe advised to make arrangements in advance.

Your profile says you are Dublin-based so there are a few sites you could have a look at: Oakridge, Red Barn, HRTA, Arena, Tallaght CQB all in the Dublin area and Vacant, Hilltop, The Orchard & Bellurgan not too far away.

Zomg Okay

Siuin wrote: »

Are there any places in Ireland were one can just join up with a group to play (just as a once off to see what it's like)?

Most - if not all - sites will let you at a rental gun. Make sure you ring ahead a day or so before hand though, it'd be a disaster if you showed up only to find all the rentals were reserved.

Firekitten

Siuin wrote: »

450 fps at 10 meters is bad? How would you know? Ever got shot with that?
I can tell you from experience, it's fine. And it doesn't even happen since the game is handled at 40+ meters most of the time (since, well.. you can with this velocity).

330 fps makes sense in CQB. In open fields its just.. lame. No range, no accuracy, no fun.
What I don't understand is why no one is trying to fix this silly law.
If it's OK to shoot a 17j paintball gun at people, license or not, it's OK to shoot someone with a 1.7j airsoft gun. The bureaucracy of a license doesn't make it hurt less.

What about bolt action? Can snipers have high FPS? If so, why is that OK? Same BB flying at you.

no range, no accuracy? Have you ever tried it? range and accuracy is FINE. I engage regularly at 60-70m with an airsoft rifle shooting 320. so that is rubbish.

As for 5m 450 hits not hurting, load of crap. I've been hit by a sniper that had a 450ish bolty, at that range, granted it was an accident, in the uk we have a 25m engagement range for that, and I can tell you from only a single shot, it broke the skin, and hurt like hell. Full auto? on your bike.
My other half was shot by me with a 500, at 30m roughly once, that left an apple sized bruise. High fps is dangerous when not handled correctly. I frankly dont TRUST the average airsofter, with a 450 auto rifle. They cause enough pain, and misery with 328.

Siuin

Decoy wrote: »

Most decent sites operate in that exact way, just show up & play with whoever is there on the day. However, not all sites do rentals so you would need to make arrangements in advance.

What part of Ireland will you be based in, that way we can suggest what sites you should visit?

I'm visiting from Dec 23 - mid January -- would ye still be active around then? I'm not sure what the weather situation is like there.

I'll be in Cork for the first week, then Dublin for most of the time (using gf's account, so apologies for any confusion! :P)

Decoy

I'm based in Dublin so know very little about the Cork airsoft situation. In Dublin you could try Oakridge, Red Barn, HRTA, Arena, Tallaght CQB with Vacant, Hilltop, The Orchard & Bellurgan not too far away either.

Yes, weather permitting we will be playing in Dec/Jan so no worries there.

Leftyflip

Siuin wrote: »

I'm visiting from Dec 23 - mid January -- would ye still be active around then? I'm not sure what the weather situation is like there.

I'll be in Cork for the first week, then Dublin for most of the time (using gf's account, so apologies for any confusion! :P)

Most sites are open year round. It may be cold and shíte but we still play!

Siuin

Firekitten wrote: »

no range, no accuracy? Have you ever tried it? range and accuracy is FINE. I engage regularly at 60-70m with an airsoft rifle shooting 320. so that is rubbish.

As for 5m 450 hits not hurting, load of crap. I've been hit by a sniper that had a 450ish bolty, at that range, granted it was an accident, in the uk we have a 25m engagement range for that, and I can tell you from only a single shot, it broke the skin, and hurt like hell. Full auto? on your bike.
My other half was shot by me with a 500, at 30m roughly once, that left an apple sized bruise. High fps is dangerous when not handled correctly. I frankly dont TRUST the average airsofter, with a 450 auto rifle. They cause enough pain, and misery with 328.

I'm not sure what kind of gear you're packing, but we have proper eye protection, and most of us have thses: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5255/5494123035_7e42f91b79.jpg

Also, we wear real army BDUs and vests. These things are thick and occasionally you don't even feel that 450 FPS shot from 50 meters. Especially with all the adrenaline pumping.

Firekitten

...

I don't understand what you seem to think we do...


Of course we wear 'real army bdu and vests' that doesnt do that much frankly, you make out like its a padded suit...

As for face protection... all I can say, is 'duh'.


I'm increasingly confused by your assertations, have you ever used a 328 airsoft rifle? or skirmished with one? your perspective comes across somewhat one sided, and a little basic. I'm not being funny, but atleast try it first, before making all these statements of 'fact'.

F.U.B.A.R

I wear an authentic assault vest and I can tell if something is bouncing off it and I don't think airsoft can actually cause adrenaline rush's not saying its not exciting I just find more fun if that makes any sense

Siuin

Firekitten wrote: »

...

I don't understand what you seem to think we do...


Of course we wear 'real army bdu and vests' that doesnt do that much frankly, you make out like its a padded suit...

As for face protection... all I can say, is 'duh'.


I'm increasingly confused by your assertations, have you ever used a 328 airsoft rifle? or skirmished with one? your perspective comes across somewhat one sided, and a little basic. I'm not being funny, but atleast try it first, before making all these statements of 'fact'.

Sure. We use that in CQB, but 90% of the time we play outdoors.
My M130 cylinder is currently broken, so I'm using an M90. And my backup AEG is at around 300 FPS.
It's very weak and I'm constantly out-ranged. Not to mention it doesn't shoot through foliage.

F.U.B.A.R

Siuin wrote: »

Sure. We use that in CQB, but 90% of the time we play outdoors.
My M130 cylinder is currently broken, so I'm using an M90. And my backup AEG is at around 300 FPS.
It's very weak and I'm constantly out-ranged. Not to mention it doesn't shoot through foliage.

Mine shoots 310 and cuts rite through foliage whts the local brush made from? Steel?

Siuin

F.U.B.A.R wrote: »

Mine shoots 310 and cuts rite through foliage whts the local brush made from? Steel?

it's made from this :P
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Nuta_CQvImI/TD91AYGKwLI/AAAAAAAACeY/4udeik1x6G8/s1600/JNF-Eshtaol-Forest,-Israel-PD-photo-2.jpg

Siuin

Also, anyone here use Pimp My Gun? It's my site, and just wondering if any Irish people have tried it

F.U.B.A.R

Siuin wrote: »

it's made from this :P
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Nuta_CQvImI/TD91AYGKwLI/AAAAAAAACeY/4udeik1x6G8/s1600/JNF-Eshtaol-Forest,-Israel-PD-photo-2.jpg

yup thats close to what i was playing in and have out my back yard still cuts through it

Firekitten

If it shoots through foliage, its going to seriously hurt someone on the other side...

As for range, youve fallen into the classic trap of 'moar fps = moar range' Which is total cobblers.

Your mind seems set on this desire for power. End of the day, this is the law, its not going to change. Deal with it.

F.U.B.A.R

Siuin wrote: »

Also, anyone here use Pimp My Gun? It's my site, and just wondering if any Irish people have tried it

yes I have and is there any chance you mite revise the names of a few parts? for example you have the aug a1 a2 and a3 but there all called aug a2

also would love to see some Madbull parts as well like the JP rifle kits or some trades on the receivers if possible

thermo

as i have said in all the "we need higher fps limits for our guns" threads,
do not compensate for lack of skill with with higher power limits,
compensate for lack of (preceived) power with increasing your skill level, and upping your game.

Siuin

F.U.B.A.R wrote: »

yes I have and is there any chance you mite revise the names of a few parts? for example you have the aug a1 a2 and a3 but there all called aug a2

also would love to see some Madbull parts as well like the JP rifle kits or some trades on the receivers if possible

Will do

ronan keane

Siuin wrote: »

Will do

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