Deer Rifle

Fox Shooter .223

Well lads, I've been fox shooting for quite a few years now with my trusty tikka t3 .223. I'm looking into getting into the deer stalking side of things now after been out several times with a fellow shooter. My question is What cal rifle would yous recommend just for stalking. I want to keep my .223 just because I love it so much. Ive €1000 to spend on the complete set up. (rifle plus scope) Was thinking of a SB 6X42 scope. Thanks fs.223

It wasn't me!

Best bet is to go second hand and try get rifle and scope together. Otherwise you find yourself trying to cut short on one or the other. Since you don't need it to do double duty as a foxing rifle, I'd suggest any of the following: 6.5x55 (Can be harder to get really good ammo for, and a bit expensive, but it's widely available), .270 (Classic all-rounder), .308 (Most widely available and along with the .270, equally perfect as a deer cartridge) or a .30-06 (Offers more poke at the high end than the .308 if you ever wanted to take it abroad).

The above rounds all have good ammo availability and are perfect deer cartridges. You'd want to stick to quality European ammo in the 6.5 more than likely as it's loaded slower in the US, so it'd be bottom of my list for that reason, and the .30-06 is a bit harder to get ammo for than the other two, so try find a good rifle in either the .308 or the .270 for a good price and you're golden.

Should be able to find a CZ550 second hand for the right money with a bit of work, and they're a lovely rifle. That or a Tikka (Either the T3 or the older 5/695), maybe an older Sako.

Hibrion

+1 for the 308. As a dedicated stalking rifle for Ireland it's hard to beat.

You might find it a bit difficult to keep it under that budget with a good scope and a good set of mounts. It might be worth considering forking out a bit more to put a good scope on some good mounts.

A moderator would be a handy addition later on, but not a necessity.

CZ would be the way to go with this budget. You might pick up a Remington 700 or an older savage either.

It wasn't me!

Had forgotten the Savage, my bad! Definitely one to look out for. Crazy accurate for feck all money compared to the higher end stuff, and feel pretty nice to me (I'm lost - I love the European finery of the likes of Sako, but the straight lines of American stocks like Savage and Remington fit me best).

Fox Shooter .223

Was thinking of a howa lightening stainless in camo. It will only be used for a few deer for the freezer a year. Would a .308 have the biggest range of ammo. Anyone know a dealer selling howa rifles? Thanks

It wasn't me!

.308 would definitely have the widest availability of ammo. In terms of number of loads, I wouldn't worry. All have more than enough. Just settle on one good quality bullet that shoots fairly accurately (Anything around an inch is more than good enough) and buy a few boxes. I say this as that clown who's bought a fortune in ammo just to see does it shoot any better than what I'm using now, and for the most part, it doesn't.

Cass

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

I want to keep my .223 just because I love it so much. Ive €1000 to spend on the complete set up. (rifle plus scope)

I know you said you want to keep the rifle (.223), but for €1,000 for the entire setup you will find you'll be lacking in some department. In other words you could get a decent second hand CZ in say .308 or .270, but find the stock a problem, the barrel too light, etc. I only mention CZ off the top of my head.

I know you probably already know this, but if you were to trade the Tikka, use the €1,000 you could go for a super rifle that will do the job of both the .223 and a deer rifle. 6.5x55 springs to mind as does the .308.

It also means new rifle, mounts, and good quality scope such as the S&B, Zeiss, etc.

Food for thought.

Vizzy

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

Was thinking of a howa lightening stainless in camo. It will only be used for a few deer for the freezer a year. Would a .308 have the biggest range of ammo. Anyone know a dealer selling howa rifles? Thanks

I think that Stakelums in Thurles(050429800) do Howa.(Could possibly be Savage though) Whicever make it is,Sean had a great deal on them about 3 months ago.
Also,give Paul O Halloran in Drangan a ring(o52 52112),he should be able to get you whatever you want and he has a good selection of secondhand stuff

Fox Shooter .223

Ezridax wrote: »

I know you said you want to keep the rifle (.223), but for €1,000 for the entire setup you will find you'll be lacking in some department. In other words you could get a decent second hand CZ in say .308 or .270, but find the stock a problem, the barrel too light, etc. I only mention CZ off the top of my head.

I know you probably already know this, but if you were to trade the Tikka, use the €1,000 you could go for a super rifle that will do the job of both the .223 and a deer rifle. 6.5x55 springs to mind as does the .308.

It also means new rifle, mounts, and good quality scope such as the S&B, Zeiss, etc.

Food for thought.

I shoot over 50 foxes a year with the .223 and its the flattest shooting round I can think of out to 250 yards. As far as I know the .308 would drop more. @€;25 a box of 40gr hornady its good value. What round in .308 would be suitable for foxing? As I said it would be just used to shoot 2 or 3 deer a year.

It wasn't me!

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

I shoot over 50 foxes a year with the .223 and its the flattest shooting round I can think of out to 250 yards. As far as I know the .308 would drop more. @€;25 a box of 40gr hornady its good value. What round in .308 would be suitable for foxing? As I said it would be just used to shoot 2 or 3 deer a year.

For me personally, it wouldn't be worth an extra rifle just to shoot a few deer a year. I'd just change the .223 for a .243 in your case. It'll be flatter than the .223 too, and a lot pokier out to long ranges. Ammo will be more like €30-35 for 20, but it saves on the cost of a whole new rifle. You'll take a long time to rack up that cost in the extra ammo.

ClarkyTrd

I was quoted €1000 for a brand new Howa 1500 in .243 with a synthetic stock, a decent scope & mod.

Tried another place and they wanted €800 for just the rifle alone :O.

Just to give you a rough idea.

John

Mountainy Jack

ClarkyTrd wrote: »

I was quoted €1000 for a brand new Howa 1500 in .243 with a synthetic stock, a decent scope & mod.

Tried another place and they wanted €800 for just the rifle alone :O.

Just to give you a rough idea.

John

Boys are right, stick a 55 grain bullet in a .243 and you have a serious flat shooting fox round. You can step it up to a 100 grain bullet then for deer.

Hibrion

For the amount of foxes you shoot and the amount of deer you hope to shoot a 243 is definitely the best option. It's plenty of gun for Ireland and will do the job on foxes.

That being said, there is no such thing as too dead. A 308 might make a bit of a mess for a fox but it will certainly work.

Don't worry about flat shooting rounds and all that. For the ranges you will shoot and the type of rifle you will be buying any of the calibers suggested will work perfectly.

I would definitely consider Ezri's suggestion of getting rid of the 223 and getting an all rounder instead. Why not go for another TIKKA; considering you are used to the rifle already?

Just a random suggestion, but you could get the tikka rebarrelled in 243 or 308 with a nice barrel for 1000 quid. I could be wrong on the price though. SOme of the lads with custom rifles will tell you better.

Fox Shooter .223

The .223 is plenty for foxes in my opinion but if it saves me money I could possibly go for a .243 as a dual purpose cal.

Cass

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

I shoot over 50 foxes a year with the .223 and its the flattest shooting round I can think of out to 250 yards. As far as I know the .308 would drop more.

The .308 with a 100 yard zero has roughly a 10 - 16 inch drop out to 300 yards depending on whether you use the 123gr or 155 gr round with average speed of 2700. If you use something like the 150 Nosler or 150 Hornady Superperformance you would be looking at speeds fo 3000fps giving you drops of 10 - 12 inches.

Anything over 150gr is unneeded for foxes. Plus the 150 gr works perfectly on deer. Compare that to the 40gr or 55 gr round from a .223 and again with a 100 yard zero you are looking at between 11 - 13 inches of drop.

Now most lads use a 1 inch high zero at 100 yards (which is in effect a 200 yard zero) and this changes the drop for the .223 to 6-8 inches and for the .308 betwen 6 - 9 inches.

So overall no real difference in performance its merely a matter of bullet choice.

@€;25 a box of 40gr hornady its good value. What round in .308 would be suitable for foxing? As I said it would be just used to shoot 2 or 3 deer a year.

For .308 you could look at the lapua 123gr, the Nosler 150gr, Hornady TAP or Superperformance in 150gr. All good rounds with the Hornady stuff the better. Although its more expensive than the .223 ammo running from €26 to €45 per box of 20. Although the 150gr stuff is good for both foxes and deer. I use these myself for both.

Hibrion wrote: »

For the amount of foxes you shoot and the amount of deer you hope to shoot a 243 is definitely the best option. It's plenty of gun for Ireland and will do the job on foxes.

Very true. Some people overlook the .243 when they have a .223 or other .22 centefire. They are a terrific caliber.

Just a random suggestion, but you could get the tikka rebarrelled in 243 or 308 with a nice barrel for 1000 quid. I could be wrong on the price though. SOme of the lads with custom rifles will tell you better.

For €750 you could have your choice of barrels (make/model) in whatever caliber you wanted. Same gun you are used to but with new caliber. However you would need a license for the new caliber, but now you also still have your old .223 barrel and if you wanted to go back to it when deer season finishes simply change barrels back, and shoot away with the cheaper .223 ammo.

Vizzy wrote: »

I think that Stakelums in Thurles(050429800) do Howa.(Could possibly be Savage though) Whicever make it is,Sean had a great deal on them about 3 months ago.

It was the Howa with Swift scope (i think), mounts, case, sling for about €700 (again i think). not sure if he is still doing it, but he has a new offer out. Not so much a package deal as a deal on the price of new Tikka rifles. I posted elsewhere about this so won't bother posting it all again, but its the Tikka and Tikka Hunter in A) .243, 25-06 C) 6.5x55 D) .270 with the Tika running at €795, and the Hunter at €975.

Hibrion

Ezri's suggestion about switching barrels when the season is out is very good.
Especially for a tikka as you can use the same magazine for each caliber.

If you have the 1,000 to spend, go for a new barrel and buy a good mod for the end of it.

Winchester ammo in the 308 is also good for hunting and on the cheaper end of the scale. You can even get a 180 grain if you get the chance to go foreign for elk/ moose.

jingojonson

Hi there

I recently bought a cz550 in as new condition (really clean) together with a S&B 8x56 for €800. She shoots 1.5 inch at 100 yards (that was my first shots) I'm sure the rifle will do 1" at 100. I got a harris bipod and strap from cabelas together with binos (average binos) but I was out the other night and they were fine. All for about €1000 all in.

Re light barrel stock etc the barrel is only too light if you are planning to do target shooting with 20+ rounds a session

The stock isn't bad although I'd like a custom mcmillan or enda walsh job if funds stretched which they don't.

Jingo

Hibrion

jingojonson wrote: »

Hi there

I recently bought a cz550 in as new condition (really clean) together with a S&B 8x56 for €800. She shoots 1.5 inch at 100 yards (that was my first shots) I'm sure the rifle will do 1" at 100. I got a harris bipod and strap from cabelas together with binos (average binos) but I was out the other night and they were fine. All for about €1000 all in.

Re light barrel stock etc the barrel is only too light if you are planning to do target shooting with 20+ rounds a session

The stock isn't bad although I'd like a custom mcmillan or enda walsh job if funds stretched which they don't.

Jingo

That's the deal of the year right there!

Cass

jingojonson wrote: »

Re light barrel stock etc the barrel is only too light if you are planning to do target shooting with 20+ rounds a session

Not necessarily. However i'm not getting into a debate with you. You are correct that it would only be an issue with multiple rounds, but in as few as 3 shots not 20. The point however is somewhat moot as even 3 rounds would be a stretch for most hunters to have to fire in the field in one "sitting".

The stock isn't bad although I'd like a custom mcmillan or enda walsh job if funds stretched which they don't.

Jingo

Endas's work is first class, but please i'm not knocking the CZ. Having owned my fair share over the years in multiple calibers i have nothing but good things to say, and as mentioned i only referenced CZ as it was previously mentioned so stood out in my head. No offence intended.

Hibrion wrote: »

That's the deal of the year right there!

+ 1 to that. Good value.

Feidhlim Dignan

Hibrion wrote: »

That's the deal of the year right there!

i got a cz .308 with t8 mod, bipod, sling and 1 inch rings for 575.

fallowbuck

You will get a Howa 243 + 3x15x50 swift scope for about 1,000 I shoot the howa 243 and cant fault it thats from my own experience. It aint one a the big brand names but it aint far behind and is excellent value for money and very accurate. I shoot fox and fallow with this using 100 grain federal power shok sp 30e a box. This may suit ya ?.:) Try Des O Halloran Youghal Co Cork. Contact 087 6480692 or 021 4631800

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

For me personally, it wouldn't be worth an extra rifle just to shoot a few deer a year. I'd just change the .223 for a .243 in your case. It'll be flatter than the .223 too, and a lot pokier out to long ranges. Ammo will be more like €30-35 for 20, but it saves on the cost of a whole new rifle. You'll take a long time to rack up that cost in the extra ammo.

Very rarely will I agree with IWM
However,
I do agree with him on this.
The best foxer occasional deer rifle in my very Humble opinion is a .243.
Use 58grain rounds for foxes and 85-100+ grains for deer.

I have 2 good friends who shoot a lot of foxes and the occasional deer with .243.

I'd love to have one for the craic.

FISMA

For Ireland, I think I would choose the 270. I personally shoot a 30-06, however, the ammo is too limited to shoot much in Ireland.

The 270 is a nice round that doesn't kick much. I would get a Remington 700 or the Howa 1500. Of course a Tikka or Sako would be grand as well, but doubtfull for that price.

I would actually like to shoot the 7mm Rem Mag, and just may do so, however, I have never tried to source it in Ireland. Has anyone here tried? The 7mm Rem Mag is a fantastic round and just may win me over from the American round, the 30-06.

Do you have a scope now? If so, why not spend all your dosh on the rifle? Big targets need small magnification. All you really need is a 4x fixed and a 30mm bell. Any 3-9x40mm is more than enough.

jingojonson

Hey Ezridax, no offense taken.

Main point was that second hand deals are to be had, if you subtract scope you're talking around 4-500 for a rifle in good condition (not the top end brands).

Rifle definitely heats after 3 rounds but cools quickly, I was thinking more about barrel wear.

Fox Shooter .223

Thanks for the advice lads. A .243 sounds like an option been a duel cal.

FISMA

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads. A .243 sounds like an option been a duel cal.

If you want one gun to do both jobs, the .243 sounds like the correct job.

vixdname

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

I shoot over 50 foxes a year with the .223 and its the flattest shooting round I can think of out to 250 yards. As far as I know the .308 would drop more. @€;25 a box of 40gr hornady its good value. What round in .308 would be suitable for foxing? As I said it would be just used to shoot 2 or 3 deer a year.

If you're looking for a flat shooting round, the .270 will be your man, the .308 will drop well before the .270.

Fox Shooter .223

vixdname wrote: »

If you're looking for a flat shooting round, the .270 will be your man, the .308 will drop well before the .270.

I would be of the opinion a necked down 30-06 would be not at all suitable for lamping. I need a rifle thats light and quite for foxing. The .223 is both with the mod of course. A .270 would kick like a mule without a heavy stock. Rant over.

vixdname

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

vixdname wrote: »

If you're looking for a flat shooting round, the .270 will be your man, the .308 will drop well before the .270.

I would be of the opinion a necked down 30-06 would be not at all suitable for lamping. I need a rifle thats light and quite for foxing. The .223 is both with the mod of course. A .270 would kick like a mule without a heavy stock. Rant over.

No need to rant lad, I simply gave my opinion when you stated you wanted a flat shooting round. I shoot a .270 in a Tikka T3 Lite and I can assure you that. It doesnt kick anything like a mule so your wrong in your assumption.
.
So before you rant perhaps you should leave your incorrect preconceived ideas where you found them and get your facts right

Fox Shooter .223

I hate the idea of using a .270 for lamping, Id choose accuracy over power any day. A .243 sounds ideal for my needs. A couple of fallow is all Id be shooting every year. A .270 has its place in the shooting world but I see no need for one in Ireland because a .308 is more than enough for anything your going to shoot in this country. Unless your planing a trip to the zoo.

vixdname

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

I hate the idea of using a .270 for lamping, Id choose accuracy over power any day. A .243 sounds ideal for my needs. A couple of fallow is all Id be shooting every year. A .270 has its place in the shooting world but I see no need for one in Ireland because a .308 is more than enough for anything your going to shoot in this country. Unless your planing a trip to the zoo.

You dont have to trade off power or accuracy with a .270 over a .308, I was shooting steel plates between 500 and 700 yrds on Monday, and didnt miss, power and accuracy are only half the battle, its down to the shooter after that.

Cass

The .243 would be the better choice of caliber for your needs. A few deer each year and mostly foxing. Stick with it.:cool:

CJhaughey

I have a Browning A-bolt in .243 with a Roedale mod.
Its a lovely cal to shoot modded, you get very little bang off it and no appreciable recoil.
I use mainly 100gn out of it and they work as well on Fox as deer.
For Irish work the .243 will do all you want with little fuss or noise.

arrowloopboy

Would you consider a Baikal single shot .308 ,brand new for £275,its nothing fancy but from what i've read,it shoots 1" groups,this leaves you enough for a decent scope,I have a decent .270 but theres something about this Baikal that makes me want one:p. Yorkguns.com have them on their site.

Fox Shooter .223

They look like a poor mans rifle. Id prefer a slick bolt action any day.

arrowloopboy

Fox Shooter .223 wrote: »

They look like a poor mans rifle. Id prefer a slick bolt action any day.

I doubt the deer will mind what the rifle looks like,sorry but i thought you had a grand and you wanted S&B glass,good luck with that.

mister gullible

For God's sake just ship the 223 and get the 243 ...