I'd love opinions on this

jackiebaron

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29296.htm

A 12 year old who is about to be banged up for the rest of his life. That this is even a debate is beyond me. You've seen US cops handcuffing 6 year olds for cycling their bikes without a light. You've seen them frisking 2 year olds. You've seen them throwing 5 year olds into cop wagons for having a tantrum in school. You've seen the morons draw guns on 4 year olds who scream when their father or mother is cuffed for a traffic infraction.

What next? These dummies send a swat team into a home whose newborn gurgles when told to "shut the fück up"?

FreudianSlippers

There was a report last year of a police officer tazing a baby. I'll try to find the article tomorrow.

Berberie

In another report they gave the impression that the pathologist said the 2 year old had been punched in the head and the mother waited 2 hours.

Either way this is a tradgedy all round, a two year old lost his life and a 12 year old CHILD is facing life behind bars. This 12 year old was failed repeatedly by the system from birth (for goodness sake his mother was only a child when she gave birth to him at the same age that he is now). He appears to have known nothing but abuse, cruelty and been witness to appalling violence and yet the state expects him to be a rounded member of society? Who will put the state on trial for their neglect of duty? Their ways are positively Victorian with regard to the treatment of children within the criminal system.

Weigh that against school bullies in the US who bully a peer to the point where they commit suicide and are not held responsible....... possibly because they are from 'good homes', what sense does any of it make.

laoch na mona

god bless america

RichieC

I assume the child isn't white.

Overheal

RichieC wrote: »

I assume the child isn't white.

I'll look this up when I'm not on a iPod

Man though i saw some out of control kids today though. I forgot how bad some of those tantrums can be. Now tazing a kid? I'd be most worried about physiological damage to such a small body but in all pragmatism some kids do not listen to reason and will seizure violently on the floor or in a buggy and scream bloody murder for all to hear until they are hoarse or out Of steam, which can take a while sometimes.

I'd want to read the actual incident though.

Manic Moran

I guess the counter point is that part of the job of the DA isn't just to punish offenders, but also to protect the average citizen. Exactly how or why this kid ended up as he is is rather beyond the point when looking at the question of "do we want this person roaming the streets again in a couple of years?" It may well be that the level of correction needed isn't just one about poor judgement, but requires an entire attitude shift. A life sentence is one thing, life without the possibility of parole is another. The former may well be the best route for the protection of the citizenry without the requirement to release the kid at some arbitrary date just because he's a certain age, as opposed to because he's fit to return to society.

Certainly questions should be asked as to how the kid ended up as he is, and if criminal offenses were committed, prosecuted, if just a systematic failure, the failings fixed, but that is a separate issue to the immediate problem of "he's this way now, so now what?"

NTM

hangon

jackiebaron wrote: »

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29296.htm

A 12 year old who is about to be banged up for the rest of his life. That this is even a debate is beyond me. You've seen US cops handcuffing 6 year olds for cycling their bikes without a light. You've seen them frisking 2 year olds. You've seen them throwing 5 year olds into cop wagons for having a tantrum in school. You've seen the morons draw guns on 4 year olds who scream when their father or mother is cuffed for a traffic infraction.

What next? These dummies send a swat team into a home whose newborn gurgles when told to "shut the fück up"?

First reaction is there is something very tempting about tazing babies when they will not stop being demanding

on a serious note who on Earth that was in any way fair or rational would lock up a 12 yr old for life ?
why does America allow itself to be disgraced like this?,it beats me.
Prisons being private,Judges being elected and having to run for re-election will always distort the US justice system IMO.

jackiebaron

hangon wrote: »

First reaction is there is something very tempting about tazing babies when they will not stop being demanding

on a serious note who on Earth that was in any way fair or rational would lock up a 12 yr old for life ?
why does America allow itself to be disgraced like this?,it beats me.
Prisons being private,Judges being elected and having to run for re-election will always distort the US justice system IMO.

Maybe because it's a disgrace.
Can you name a single country in the world whose citizens would allow this? Name one.

Name the most wretched banana republic and tell me that the people of that country would accept this shït.

hangon

laoch na mona wrote: »

god bless america

RichieC wrote: »

I assume the child isn't white.

jackiebaron wrote: »

Maybe because it's a disgrace.
Can you name a single country in the world whose citizens would allow this? Name one.

Name the most wretched banana republic and tell me that the people of that country would accept this shït.

I do not like America bashing as a hobby as many on boards.IE seem to like to indulge in.
Certain aspects of the US will always be beyond the understanding of People who live and have always lived in Ireland.
It is one Nation but also many Nations under <insert your god>
Freakin annoying though when so many forget that the USA is such a friend to Ireland despite its faults.
Ah but sure we are the 'Nation of Saints and Scholars' now ar'nt we?

Jesus Wept

Yeah, right, pops. No jury in the world is going to convict a baby.
Well, maybe Texas.

hangon

Manic Moran wrote: »

I guess the counter point is that part of the job of the DA isn't just to punish offenders, but also to protect the average citizen.

So a DA decides he is beyond redemtian?what did he find three six's on his head?
how can you defend it in any way?

Exactly how or why this kid ended up as he is is rather beyond the point when looking at the question of "do we want this person roaming the streets again in a couple of years?" It may well be that the level of correction needed isn't just one about poor judgement, but requires an entire attitude shift.

Well exactly but who was the poor judgement from?
in the UK when Jamie Bulger was killed by two ten year olds the system chickened out and brought them to trial rather than ask "how did our society create these monsters". they dared not question their culture but took the easy route of locking them up.

A life sentence is one thing, life without the possibility of parole is another. The former may well be the best route for the protection of the citizenry without the requirement to release the kid at some arbitrary date just because he's a certain age, as opposed to because he's fit to return to society.

No it is America washing its hands of its domestic problems,i cannot help thinking if the US done that less often it would be much more crime free.

so now what?"

Find a better way to deal with this type of thing it happens all around the Globe.

jackiebaron

hangon wrote: »

I do not like America bashing as a hobby as many on boards.IE seem to like to indulge in.
Certain aspects of the US will always be beyond the understanding of People who live and have always lived in Ireland.
It is one Nation but also many Nations under <insert your god>
Freakin annoying though when so many forget that the USA is such a friend to Ireland despite its faults.
Ah but sure we are the 'Nation of Saints and Scholars' now ar'nt we?

"Such a friend" ?? In what way exactly? Are you going to barf out the usual "if it wasn't for us you'd all be speaking German" tripe?

Let's get a few things straight here, pal. Let's just assume that the US....out of the grace of their hearts....helped a load of people at one time or another. You'd earn a hell of a lot more respect if you actually did that and never mentioned it instead of claiming to lend a hand in dire straights and then use it forever as some kind of "get out of jail card". Christ, you sound like a gutless husband who beats his wife, sluts around, neglects his kids and then when someone has the audacity to complain about his alcoholic behaviour, he bleats out...."Didn't I buy you a bike when you were four?? I think I deserve some respect!!"

Get Fücking real, or get fücking lost!

It's always "US Bashing", isn't it. That's all you can come up with. America kills and steals and tortures and murders and when anyone voices a problem with that, the best you can come up with is some shït about freedom or some other slogan. And when you're called on that, the best you can come up with is "shoulda-coulda-woulda" garbage like "if we didn't blow 2 million Vietnamese to bloody rags, you'd all be speaking Chinese" Well I already speak Mandarin and I already speak German. Yep I'm so fücked.

If you want to screech all you want about America providing "freedom" for people who couldn't fight for themselves then I would LOVE for you to provide me with one single example.

America-bashing! Aw, poor baby.

hangon

jackiebaron wrote: »

"Such a friend" ?? In what way exactly? Are you going to barf out the usual "if it wasn't for us you'd all be speaking German" tripe?

I cannot start giving out history lessons,you will have to learn them yourself.
(It might have been Russian or Chinese if lack of US intervention had never happened,who knows.
Our European 'friends' gave us such a great deal when we needed a bailout now did'nt they?

Let's get a few things straight here, pal.
[/Who said i was Your pal?]

Let's just assume that the US....out of the grace of their hearts....helped a load of people at one time or another. You'd earn a hell of a lot more respect if you actually did that and never mentioned it instead of claiming to lend a hand in dire straights and then use it forever as some kind of "get out of jail card".

I am not an American.

Christ, you sound like a gutless husband who beats his wife,

I am not Married.

It's always "US Bashing", isn't it. That's all you can come up with. America kills and steals and tortures and murders and when anyone voices a problem with that, the best you can come up with is some shït about freedom

very sorry i value freedom.



You would have to go back much further than Vietnam to understand US foreign policy.

If you want to screech all you want about America providing "freedom" for people who couldn't fight for themselves then I would LOVE for you to provide me with one single example.

Clintons involvement in Irelands peace process.
NATO's involvement in stopping the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo,oh and the sad fact that Germany was not beaten in WW11 before you became fluent in Euroshi*te

hope your little rant has made you feel better,i advise history books for your further therapy.

Dr Galen

Jackiebaron has 2 weeks off, don't expect answers to questions etc until this time is up

Cheers

DrG

Victor

hangon wrote: »

Our European 'friends' gave us such a great deal when we needed a bailout now did'nt they?

I'm just wondering what you mean by this?

And note that neither Ireland nor the USA have anything but tiny minorities speaking the native languages. They were both invaded and the invaders' language is spoken.

hangon

Victor wrote: »

I'm just wondering what you mean by this?

Victor the punitive interest rates before they realised that destroying us,Greece and Portugal would bring down their banks as well,that as you know is far from over.

And note that neither Ireland nor the USA have anything but tiny minorities speaking the native languages. They were both invaded and the invaders' language is spoken.

True but as i have said in another forum 'when does history become history'?
the biggest prize is peace and that requires compromise and swallowing very sour truths by all.

theUbiq

Your counter arguments here are total bull. Sorry, but anyone with half a brain can see that the yank warmongers are increasingly desperate for natural resources and are willing to do what ever it takes to get them.

Recently even to the extent of creating a false Iranian plot involving a Mexican cartel hitman so they can begin to justify a pre-emptive strike against an oil rich country that really is no threat to them at all. Although said country may be a threat to those terrorists, the Isrealis.

Seriously, look at Israels behavior and explain why the yanks ain't saving the Palestinians from the evil Isrealis? Oh wait; aren't the yanks and the Israeli terrorists best buddies.

Why aren't the yank warmongers in Bahrain deposing the evil government there? Oh wait; they like to trade oil in dollars at a price the yanks can appreciate. What about Saudi Arabia? Is that a democracy? Don't they need freedom too? Oh, wait a second, they also like to trade oil in dollars at a price the yank bringers of freedom can appreciate... What about Africa? Maybe there's too many 'brothers' living there and we know the problems yankland has with its brothers. Maybe there's not much oil there?

You do know some very, very rich yanks get even richer when ever they send troops overseas to protect America? You do know it's also these people lobbying for an Iran invasion.

US bashing is easy. It's very easy because they are the problem. They may have helped Europe in WW2 but they've been of little use to the world since then. Just wait until the oil become really scarce because they won't even be pretending to bring democracy. They'll just take it using what ever means they deem necessary.

You sure you are not a yank?

Maybe you should take your head out of your arse. Maybe you should take a look at yank involvement in central America and the wonderful mess they left there and wonder why they do the same thing over and over and over again.

:mad:

hangon wrote: »

I cannot start giving out history lessons,you will have to learn them yourself.
(It might have been Russian or Chinese if lack of US intervention had never happened,who knows.
Our European 'friends' gave us such a great deal when we needed a bailout now did'nt they?

Let's get a few things straight here, pal.
[/Who said i was Your pal?]


I am not an American.


I am not Married.

very sorry i value freedom.



You would have to go back much further than Vietnam to understand US foreign policy.



Clintons involvement in Irelands peace process.
NATO's involvement in stopping the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo,oh and the sad fact that Germany was not beaten in WW11 before you became fluent in Euroshi*te

hope your little rant has made you feel better,i advise history books for your further therapy.

Overheal

"The yank warmongers" "The evil Israelis" "evil Bahrainian government" "African brothers", WW2 References, yank yank yankistan, etc.

There is so much wrong with that post. Where would you like me to start?

InTheTrees

I've been here in the usa for 20+ years. And i'm not an American, even though I qualify for their passport now.

You're all correct in small ways. I agree the practice of executing prisoners and treating children as adults is a bizarre miscarriage.

But they dont have a monopoly on nationalistic self interest as regards foreign policy. There's a intrusively anti-democratic obsession with corporate involvement in society thats disturbing and probably has way too much influence on everyday life.

But seriously. Worse than China? Have you been to China? How about holding up a small protest sign in tianamen square and see how long you last?

InTheTrees

theUbiq wrote: »

They may have helped Europe in WW2 but they've been of little use to the world since then.

Ummm. Little "use" to the world?

What exactly were you expecting from them that you didnt get? (since WW2!)

InTheTrees

theUbiq wrote: »

You do know some very, very rich yanks get even richer when ever they send troops overseas to protect America? You do know it's also these people lobbying for an Iran invasion.

Its a dilemma isnt it?

On the one hand they have the freedom to have it as public knowledge in tax returns, shareholder discolsures etc to talk about the fact that dick cheney and his halliburton corporation got very rich off the iraq war, and that the reasons for the war were manufactured.

And on the other hand Dick Cheney DID get rich off the Iraq war...



So how would you fix it?

hangon

theUbiq wrote: »

Your counter arguments here are total bull.

Maybe you should take your head out of your arse

.

There is No "yanks" in my Colon,so i must be safe.!
There have been two posts on this thread full of hatred,personal attacks and to a large extent misinformation.

to go into them in depth would be unfair to the OP on most threads.
i see one poster was banned for two weeks and the other 'Yellow carded'
i would just like to say i did not report either post.

The Politics charter is well worth a read(and No i am not licking up,it really is and keeps it civilised)

this from a someone who has brached forum rules in the past

hangon

InTheTrees wrote: »

You're all correct in small ways

Very patronising in ways inthetrees,but does reinforce my point that America is a very complex Country that cannot be easily understood.

InTheTrees

hangon wrote: »

Very patronising in ways inthetrees,but does reinforce my point that America is a very complex Country that cannot be easily understood.

Er...thanks?

I was being a little vague because i agree with question. I think the answer is the US media. Which is also controlled by the corporations and thus ineffective in its role.

The majority of people who voted for obama know that bush was a disasater, possibly even criminal, the reasons for war were contrived and the whole thing was a huge money maker for the 1%.

Atrocious.

The list of other injustices is also long from executing prisoners to the treatment of the poor.

But hinting the usa is somehow similar to china, russia or north korea is just looney. And mostly put forward by the young and under educated who dont have any understanding of repressive regimes.

hangon

InTheTrees wrote: »

Er...thanks?

well i did enjoy your input,that is why i 'ticked' the thank you twice and then pointed out what i had an issue with.its discussion,not destruction.:)

I was being a little vague because i agree with question. I think the answer is the US media. Which is also controlled by the corporations and thus ineffective in its role.

Yes there is major issues about the US media that need discussing,it is all so polarised now and most People can only give so much of their time to listening to News reporting.
people need unbiased reporting and the media get a very easy ride because 'Freedom of speech' is so sacred.
With Freedom of speech should also come responsibilities IMO by all media to just report facts.

The majority of people who voted for obama know that bush was a disasater, possibly even criminal, the reasons for war were contrived and the whole thing was a huge money maker for the 1%.

Atrocious.

The list of other injustices is also long from executing prisoners to the treatment of the poor.

Yes he(Bush) was IMO,but treating a Nation with contempt because of its leaders is not on,IMO.

But hinting the usa is somehow similar to china, russia or north korea is just looney.

100% agree with that, which is why the US badly needs to get it domestic politics in order.

jackiebaron

hangon wrote: »

well i did enjoy your input,that is why i 'ticked' the thank you twice and then pointed out what i had an issue with.its discussion,not destruction.:)



Yes there is major issues about the US media that need discussing,it is all so polarised now and most People can only give so much of their time to listening to News reporting.
people need unbiased reporting and the media get a very easy ride because 'Freedom of speech' is so sacred.
With Freedom of speech should also come responsibilities IMO by all media to just report facts.



Yes he(Bush) was IMO,but treating a Nation with contempt because of its leaders is not on,IMO.



100% agree with that, which is why the US badly needs to get it domestic politics in order.

Freedom of speech? Who are you kidding. Go write an article that criticizes Israel's carnage of Gazans in 2008 and watch your career and life being destroyed by AIPAC. Go and demonstrate against government spending or foreign policy and see how long it is before you require massive facial reconstructive surgery thanks to a police night-stick.

hangon

jackiebaron wrote: »

Freedom of speech? Who are you kidding. Go write an article that criticizes Israel's carnage of Gazans in 2008 and watch your career and life being destroyed by AIPAC. Go and demonstrate against government spending or foreign policy and see how long it is before you require massive facial reconstructive surgery thanks to a police night-stick.

My bad i know but what does AIPAC stand for?

Dan Rather learned a thing or two about trying to report against G W as well.

if you are referring to yourself about the surgery i am so sorry that it happened to you.

To think it was media reporting that most of all led to the end of the Vietnam war.

Has free speaking not become easier under Obama?(genuine question,not being in the US i do not know what it is like 'on the ground'.

cheers!

InTheTrees

jackiebaron wrote: »

Freedom of speech? Who are you kidding. Go write an article that criticizes Israel's carnage of Gazans in 2008 and watch your career and life being destroyed by AIPAC.

Oh really. Thats like saying write an article criticizing the republican party and then watch your life be destroyed by the republican party. If you make political enemies then they will be... political... enemies...

It has nothing to do with your freedom of speech if the subjects of your criticisms react does it? You expect them to be happy about it?

So how exactly would aipac effect your right to free speech?

InTheTrees

hangon wrote: »

Has free speaking not become easier under Obama?(genuine question,not being in the US i do not know what it is like 'on the ground'.

He's really talking about corporate control of the media. Thats the problem.

The fact that the majority of news outlets (or rather the news outlets that the majoirty of americans listen to) are pretty tightly controlled by a four or five large corporations.

jackiebaron

InTheTrees wrote: »

Oh really. Thats like saying write an article criticizing the republican party and then watch your life be destroyed by the republican party. If you make political enemies then they will be... political... enemies...

It has nothing to do with your freedom of speech if the subjects of your criticisms react does it? You expect them to be happy about it?

So how exactly would aipac effect your right to free speech?

Oh come ON!
Ever hear of Helen Thomas? One of the most respected journalists in American history. She criticized Israel's violations of international law in December 2010 and the hysterical assholes at AIPAC and the ADL called for her to be stripped of all her journalistic awards simply because she spoke the truth and they didn't like it.
It's amazing how you can criticize, say Iran or China or Uzbeckistan over their policies or human rights issues and you're not labelled anti-Persian or anti-Chinese or anti-Uzbeck yet you voice your opinion about Israel's catalogue of war crimes and human rights violations and lo and behold you're painted as an anti-Semite.
These freaks in AIPAC have had many a university professor removed from his position for simply pointing out certain truths that they find a little bit uncomfortable.

The same disturbing (an infantile) trend goes for the US. If you point out a glaring truth about american policy, nobody sits backs and says "you know, you've got a point there." Instead they just stamp their feet like tantrum prone brats, screech on about you being anti-American (and throw in the usual adolescent slurs about how if it wasn't for them you'd be speaking German or some such gibberish) and say "if you don't like it move to Venezuela". And this is the zenith of informed political discourse in the US right now.

When the Dixie Chicks said that they were ashamed that the US president (Bush) was from their home state of Texas they received multiple death threats and were pulled from most radio stations. Now it's a crime, and a vary serious one, to issue death threats. If Bush had a modicum of a spine he could have shot up in people's opinions if he came out and stated that he condemned these death threats issued in his name. And that the Dixie Chicks were entitled to their opinions. He would have looked like a man of maturity and integrity. But no. The snivelling little weasel chuckled to himself revelling in people being harassed by a mob of thick rednecks who worshipped him.

How many examples have you read about of cops pulling over cars and forcing the driver to remove an anti-Bush bumper sticker, or not being allowed to board a plane because they were wearing a t-shirt that the TSA **** took offense to?

Freedom of speech? Freedom of expression? Don't make me laugh.

InTheTrees

jackiebaron wrote: »

Oh come ON!
Ever hear of Helen Thomas? One of the most respected journalists in American history. She criticized Israel's violations of international law in December 2010 and the hysterical assholes at AIPAC and the ADL called for her to be stripped of all her journalistic awards simply because she spoke the truth and they didn't like it.
It's amazing how you can criticize, say Iran or China or Uzbeckistan over their policies or human rights issues and you're not labelled anti-Persian or anti-Chinese or anti-Uzbeck yet you voice your opinion about Israel's catalogue of war crimes and human rights violations and lo and behold you're painted as an anti-Semite.
These freaks in AIPAC have had many a university professor removed from his position for simply pointing out certain truths that they find a little bit uncomfortable.

The same disturbing (an infantile) trend goes for the US. If you point out a glaring truth about american policy, nobody sits backs and says "you know, you've got a point there." Instead they just stamp their feet like tantrum prone brats, screech on about you being anti-American (and throw in the usual adolescent slurs about how if it wasn't for them you'd be speaking German or some such gibberish) and say "if you don't like it move to Venezuela". And this is the zenith of informed political discourse in the US right now.

When the Dixie Chicks said that they were ashamed that the US president (Bush) was from their home state of Texas they received multiple death threats and were pulled from most radio stations. Now it's a crime, and a vary serious one, to issue death threats. If Bush had a modicum of a spine he could have shot up in people's opinions if he came out and stated that he condemned these death threats issued in his name. And that the Dixie Chicks were entitled to their opinions. He would have looked like a man of maturity and integrity. But no. The snivelling little weasel chuckled to himself revelling in people being harassed by a mob of thick rednecks who worshipped him.

How many examples have you read about of cops pulling over cars and forcing the driver to remove an anti-Bush bumper sticker, or not being allowed to board a plane because they were wearing a t-shirt that the TSA **** took offense to?

Freedom of speech? Freedom of expression? Don't make me laugh.

Nonsense. Total bollocks really.

I made a fair amount of money during the (illegitimate) "presidency" of chimp boy bush selling anti-bush tshirts, bumper stickers etc.

We sold a "**** bush" bumper sticker that was really popular.

And no black vans came by to take us away. And no Israeli's tried to shut us down. In fact we got a lot of support. We worked hard to make sure the Republicans didnt win the last election too. And it worked.

SO you write like someone with no direct experience of the US. You're taking examples of right wing political agitation and making out its US policy. And that americans are all right wingers.

The Dixie Chicks may have lost some right wing facist fans but they gained a much wider mainstream audience because of their stance.

And Helen Thomas was an idiot. Plain and simple. Saying jews should go all go back to Poland (poland??) is a curious bit of op-ed from a "reporter".

And given that the US has a larger jewish population than Israel is it really any suprise that there should be an israeli lobbying group in washington? Would you rather it was banned? Or what?

jackiebaron

InTheTrees wrote: »

Nonsense. Total bollocks really.

I made a fair amount of money during the (illegitimate) "presidency" of chimp boy bush selling anti-bush tshirts, bumper stickers etc.

We sold a "**** bush" bumper sticker that was really popular.

And no black vans came by to take us away. And no Israeli's tried to shut us down. In fact we got a lot of support. We worked hard to make sure the Republicans didnt win the last election too. And it worked.

SO you write like someone with no direct experience of the US. You're taking examples of right wing political agitation and making out its US policy. And that americans are all right wingers.

The Dixie Chicks may have lost some right wing facist fans but they gained a much wider mainstream audience because of their stance.

And Helen Thomas was an idiot. Plain and simple. Saying jews should go all go back to Poland (poland??) is a curious bit of op-ed from a "reporter".

And given that the US has a larger jewish population than Israel is it really any suprise that there should be an israeli lobbying group in washington? Would you rather it was banned? Or what?

HAVE YOU COMPLETELY TAKEN LEAVE OF YOUR SENSES?

Just because you manufactured toilet roll with Kennedy on each sheet or spat out mugs showing Bush as a chimp and didn't get lifted for it.....that makes you deny that someone sporting a "BUSH SUCKS DICK CHENEY TOO" sticker get pulled over and forced to remove it.

You may have sold a lot of this bric-a-brac and nobody shut you down. But let's face it, you were just churning out a product. Did you ever ask anyone who wore your "Monkey president" t-shirts if they were harrassed for so doing? As for knowing nothing about the US, sorry Bub, but I lived there for 8 years. Granted, I've only been to 19 out of the 50 states but I would imagine that's a better record than most who couldn't find the county line with both hands and a map.

jackiebaron

InTheTrees wrote: »

Nonsense. Total bollocks really.

I made a fair amount of money during the (illegitimate) "presidency" of chimp boy bush selling anti-bush tshirts, bumper stickers etc.

We sold a "**** bush" bumper sticker that was really popular.

And no black vans came by to take us away. And no Israeli's tried to shut us down. In fact we got a lot of support. We worked hard to make sure the Republicans didnt win the last election too. And it worked.

SO you write like someone with no direct experience of the US. You're taking examples of right wing political agitation and making out its US policy. And that americans are all right wingers.

The Dixie Chicks may have lost some right wing facist fans but they gained a much wider mainstream audience because of their stance.

And Helen Thomas was an idiot. Plain and simple. Saying jews should go all go back to Poland (poland??) is a curious bit of op-ed from a "reporter".

And given that the US has a larger jewish population than Israel is it really any suprise that there should be an israeli lobbying group in washington? Would you rather it was banned? Or what?

And as for Helen Thomas stating that all Jews should go back to Poland, this is yet another childish and shabby manipulation. She stated that all Israeli jews should leave Palestine and go back to Poland, Germany, America. This manipulation is as cheap as stating that Ahmedinejad called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" when in effect he was actually quoting Khomeini by saying "the Imam recommended that the occupation of Jerusalem must vanish from the pages of time"

Now how the FÜCK does that equate to Iran calling for Israel to be nuked to dust?

In conclusion, have you ever paused to consider the Jewish population of Iran? The largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside of Israel and who despise this sabre-rattling against their Persian homeland and are willing to fight side by side with Shia, Christian, Zoroastrian and every other Persian against the clueless West?

Probably never even considered them, did you?

InTheTrees

jackiebaron wrote: »

Just because you manufactured toilet roll with Kennedy on each sheet or spat out mugs showing Bush as a chimp and didn't get lifted for it.....that makes you deny that someone sporting a "BUSH SUCKS DICK CHENEY TOO" sticker get pulled over and forced to remove it.

You said:

>>> if you point out a glaring truth about american policy, nobody sits backs and says "you know, you've got a point there." <<<

So I'm just pointing out that there are americans (& er...US resident aliens) who do.

Ad that there is some freedom of speech after all.

InTheTrees

jackiebaron wrote: »

And as for Helen Thomas stating that all Jews should go back to Poland, this is yet another childish and shabby manipulation. She stated that all Israeli jews should leave Palestine and go back to Poland, Germany, America.

And you're suprised that jews were offended by this?

I understand you're enraged by the injustices suffered by Palestinians, I'm not questioning your dedication to their cause.

I just dont see why you would be surprised. Keith obermann, aeron brown, even tom brokaw or glenn beck. They've all been fired for saying far less offensive things about various ethnic groups on/off TV.

I dont see why helen thomas gets a pass from you.

InTheTrees

jackiebaron wrote: »

Now how the FÜCK does that equate to Iran calling for Israel to be nuked to dust?

Who said anything about iran?

Victor

How did we go from:

A 12 year old who is about to be banged up for the rest of his life.

to

InTheTrees wrote: »

And you're suprised that jews were offended by this?

I understand you're enraged by the injustices suffered by Palestinians, I'm not questioning your dedication to their cause.

I just dont see why you would be surprised. Keith obermann, aeron brown, even tom brokaw or glenn beck. They've all been fired for saying far less offensive things about various ethnic groups on/off TV.

I dont see why helen thomas gets a pass from you.