Help, my 19 year old son using drugs, drinking, now self Harmed

kol1965

Hi All,

I'm at my wits end with my 19 year old son.
He's drinking heavily and has being occasionally smoking weed up to now. I have tried to get him off both on many occasions but know I'm fighting a losing battle.

He went off the rails in the last 2 weeks after losing a job because of smoking weed. He has run up a debt of about €1,000 with 3 small time (16 year old) dealers.
This came to a bust up last week when I wouldn't give him the money to pay off this debt as he will just run it up again.
He self harmed last Thursday and is in Hospital since. he's ok now but is being let out tomorrow.
I have found out the name's, numbers and details of the dealers (and where they go to school).
He has told me that he won't go into a drug/drink rehab program and basically wants to go back to that lifestyle. he has also threatened to go dealing to pay for his habit.
The counsellor in the hospital has told us that there is nothing we can do as he is 19 and any rehab has to be pushed by him.
I have spoken to a Drug Squad friend, who tells me to just meet the dealers, pay the debt and threaten them not to come near my son any more.
When I told my son that I was going to do this, he freaked, saying that he won't be able to walk Cork City again if I do that.
A few threats have come back to me via his 17 year old brother.
I can't believe a word my 19 year old says as he's being lying through his teeth about all this for so long. He tells me that he owes €1,000. I checked his mobile and Facebook chat and think its only €500. I am guessing he wants the balance to buy more of that ****e.

As I see it my options are:

1) Meet them, pay them the money and threaten them to stay away from him,
2) Give the Drug Squad their details and have them rough these guys up (The debt will still stand and will come back to bite him)
3) Ignore the problem and leave him deal with it.

None of the above options are going to end up nicely.
I know he is a big boy now, but he's still my son and I don't want getting beaten to a pulp over this.
I want to sort it in some way.

Please, any suggestions as to what you would do if this was your son?

I personally want to land in their schools, pull them out of class and beat the crap out of them, I also want to meet them down a dark alley and do the same, but that is not going to happen as I don't work that way.

I also have no doubt that there are bigger fish up the line from these young guys who are not so nice.

Thanks in advance

K

charlemont

In fairness he shouldn't be taking Weed off anybody without paying for it, Credit isn't called tick for nothing..

Telling the Drug Squad will only get your son into more trouble, His best bet is to just cop on and stop overdoing it on both the Weed and the Alcohol.

The self harming is probably due to anger and depression at the situation he is in.

Dean820

You should think about why he is doing drugs in the first place. Remember also, he's the one taking the drugs and nobody is forcing him. He's the one with issue not the drug dealers.

The self harming obviously means there is something not quite right with his mind set. Definitely get him to talk to somebody, be it a brother, uncle or somebody close that he can trust to speak his mind to.

qwertytlk

Hi, i have degree in addiction studies and have worked in a drop in center for drug users so i have some experience with this type of situation, and In my opinion, paying these people off is a bad idea, as this is enabling your sons behavior and drug use. I understand as his parent you want to protect him but this is not the way to go about it. Unfortunatley, neither is telling the police. This will probably put your son and your family in greater danger than him not paying the debt at all, as drug dealers do not take kindly to people ratting on them. In their world this is, by far, the worst offence one can commit.

The fact that your son is lying about the amout of money he owes (and god knows what else) shows that he is completley manipulating you and trying to guilt trip you into paying his debt. You mention your son has threatend to start dealing to pay the debt, well are you sure he hasnt being doing that already? The reason i ask is that for him to owe €1000, or even €500 doesnt really seem like he was just getting these drugs for personal use, as dealers dont use give out amounts as large as these for personal use. However, they will give amounts as great as this to somone who is going to sell it on in smaller deals and then pay them back.

Addicts will lie,steal and cheat family, friends and loved ones to get what they want-their drugs/alcohol. You can plead with them and they will tell you want you want to hear, just to get you off their back. You cannot force treatment upon them, because even if they agree, they wont actually want to do it and therefore it wont work. They will only stop using when they want to. They cannot get clean for anyone else, only themselves. Since your son has attempted suicide perhaps you could try to get him to see a counsellor. This would be the next best thing to treatment. There are also n.a meetings, if he would comsider going to them. They are a support group for active drug users and those who are clean. There are also various drop in centers etc that you could talk to him about going to.
In my experience, the best thin you can do is not enable your sons drug use in any way, but let him know that when he is ready to get help or to change his ways that you will be there to support him. This can be incredibly difficult for parents of drug users so During this time You may also feel you need support, for this there is a group called AL-anon, it is for friends/family of drug users. I wish you and your family all the very best.

username123

OP - Of your 3 options I would not do 1 or 2.

I would do an amended version of 3 - as in, detach with love - so tell him you love him and are willing to help him but you will not have any other involvement with his problems bar giving him emotional support if he needs it.

I definitely wouldnt pay the debt. Im in two minds about reporting them to the guards - it could come back to bite your son - then again, could they be reported anonymously?

Anyway, be very careful not to enable your son by giving him money or not having consequences for his behaviour. You should be laying down house rules and if broken - then out. Very harsh but you HAVE to draw a line in the sand when you do not agree with someones behaviour - your son is an adult - unless he is forced to take responsibility for himself he may just keep dwindling off down the wrong path.

LegacyUser

It's all well and good saying not to bother paying off the sons debts on the basis of addiction study theory. But in the real world the dealers who your son owes money to don't care about his well being or mental health like you do OP, they care about the money which they are owed and are unlikely to let it go just because your son is having personal difficulties.

They are hardly going to write it off and forget about a 1000 euro debt as chances are they in turn owe that amount to someone else who supplied them, who may not be as patient as these lads have been in dealing with your son, and if they can't get the money then who knows what they'll do instead....

It would be in your son's best interests to have his debts cleared at the very least.

Pandora2

Truth is he is an adult addict and no matter what you do here...he must make the decision to stop the behaviour or the crises will continue to occur.......if you keep cleaning up his mess, he will let you and continue to manipulate and bully you into enabling him to continue his lifestyle.

As with us all, if there are no consequences......there is no reason to stop. I strongly suggest that you contact a Family Support Group where you will meet others who have sought help in similar circumstances. I myself have no personal knowledge of this but a very close friend went through it all with her son....He only pulled himself together when she stopped picking up the pieces. His will to survive was stronger than his need to use but it took being alone to identify that!

It must be the hardest thing in the World to detach from a child and I am not sure I could do it myself but this will never end if you take on the role of "Fixer"...........To detach with love is about the best thing you can do for your son.

Stay Strong

P

Kadongy

Offer him some sort of work to do for the money (even cooking cleaning gradening or whatever) at a normal low rate of pay with the proviso he lays off drinking so much and smoking. Don't give him any money otherwise and have him pay for his own food, and possibly pay some sort of rent.

Tell him not to continue dealing and have your drug squad friend arrest him for possession if he doesn't take you seriously. He's not going to go to prison or have his life ruined by that but it might get him to cop on.

There is no need to protect your son from 16 year old kids. The issue is that he needs to start taking responsibility.

qwertytlk

Pay the debt! wrote: »

It's all well and good saying not to bother paying off the sons debts on the basis of addiction study theory. But in the real world the dealers who your son owes money to don't care about his well being or menth health like you do op
They are hardly going to write it off and forget about a 1000 euro debt as chances are they in turn owe that amount to someone else who supplied them, who may not be as patient as these lads have been in dealing with your son, and if they can't get the money then who knows what they'll do instead....


No you are right, they dont care about his mental health or personal difficulties, but in my experience they would rather get the money, even if its paid weekly, than not get it at all. So if the op could get her son to make some sort of arrangement with the dealers to do this, it would make things easier.

It would be in your son's best interests to have his debts cleared at the very least.

i can see why you would think this as every parent wants to protect their child, to make things better for them, but it is just not the case because if the op bails her son out like this, she is just enabling his addiction and behaviour, which in the long run is going to cause alot more heartache and pain for everyone.
It will make the son think that if he ever gets in these types oof situations, he can get his parents to sort them out for him, which they should not be doing if they want him to change his lifestyle and get clean.
An addict needs to hit rock bottom for them to change. Each addicts 'rock bottom' is different. But for the op's son, the fact that he is young and hasnt been is these types of situations many times before, or at all, he will most likely be scared and this, coupled with the suicide attempt, could be his rock bottom. It could be the wakeup call he needs. But even so, im my experence paying the debt will prolong his behaviour and addiction, rather than stop it. The ops son will probably not understand her no nonsense approach with him, but one day he will see exactley why she did it and thank her.

username123

Kadongy wrote: »

Offer him some sort of work to do for the money (even cooking cleaning gradening or whatever) at a normal low rate of pay with the proviso he lays off drinking so much and smoking. Don't give him any money otherwise and have him pay for his own food, and possibly pay some sort of rent.

I wouldnt go down that road - let him earn the money in a real job or out of whatever social welfare payment he is entitled to.

He will still just see his mother as a soft touch if he does paid small bits of work for her. The reality is he should be pulling his weight re chores etc ANYWAY and not expect payment - as any adult should in their living environment.

LegacyUser

qwertytlk wrote: »

i can see why you would think this as every parent wants to protect their child, to make things better for them, but it is just not the case because if the op bails her son out like this, she is just enabling his addiction and behaviour, which in the long run is going to cause alot more heartache and pain for everyone.
It will make the son think that if he ever gets in these types oof situations, he can get his parents to sort them out for him, which they should not be doing if they want him to change his lifestyle and get clean.
An addict needs to hit rock bottom for them to change. Each addicts 'rock bottom' is different. But for the op's son, the fact that he is young and hasnt been is these types of situations many times before, or at all, he will most likely be scared and this, coupled with the suicide attempt, could be his rock bottom. It could be the wakeup call he needs. But even so, im my experence paying the debt will prolong his behaviour and addiction, rather than stop it. The ops son will probably not understand her no nonsense approach with him, but one day he will see exactley why she did it and thank her.

This idea of rock bottom is a cliche at best and at worst the idea that implies, the idea of "tough love" is damaging and can be seen as a type of abuse also the suggestion that a thousand euro cannot be repaid without serious repercussions is naive. The best thing that can happen her if possible is that the debt be repaid and your son should be sent to live far away from you first with relatives and then on his own. This is not meant as a jibe at you as parents but a change of scene for 3 - 6 months can help change habits and also keeping him away from destructive elements. the change of scene is vital.

sambuka41

Pay the debt! wrote: »

It would be in your son's best interests to have his debts cleared at the very least.

Then he needs to find a way to act in HIS OWN best interest and pay his own bill. He is an adult.

An addict will tear your family apart if you let them, family involving themselves in illegal acts, and drama that comes with it are enabling and facilitating. You pay it this time then you will always be paying in one form or another; keeping him in this infantile state where he never accepts responsibility for his actions and uses drugs to avoid ever doing so. (harsh i know but its from both experience and in agreement with drug theory)

LegacyUser

qwertytlk wrote: »

i can see why you would think this as every parent wants to protect their child, to make things better for them, but it is just not the case because if the op bails her son out like this, she is just enabling his addiction and behaviour, which in the long run is going to cause alot more heartache and pain for everyone.

It will make the son think that if he ever gets in these types oof situations, he can get his parents to sort them out for him, which they should not be doing if they want him to change his lifestyle and get clean.

An addict needs to hit rock bottom for them to change. Each addicts 'rock bottom' is different. But for the op's son, the fact that he is young and hasnt been is these types of situations many times before, or at all, he will most likely be scared and this, coupled with the suicide attempt, could be his rock bottom. It could be the wakeup call he needs. But even so, im my experence paying the debt will prolong his behaviour and addiction, rather than stop it. The ops son will probably not understand her no nonsense approach with him, but one day he will see exactley why she did it and thank her.

You don't appear to be factoring in the issue of the debt owed to dealers in your response, what in your opinion should be done with that?

I'm not approaching this from the parents point of view in trying to protect their (adult) child's supposed addiction issues, I'm approaching it from the point of view of the debt which this lad has to other people, which imo, is what has caused the son to go over the edge.

This debt is not going to disappear, and the OP's Drug Squad friends aren't going to be able to protect their son from feeling the brunt of people who are out of pocket thanks to the OP's sons actions. Forget about the illegality of it all for a moment and accept that debts still need to be paid off.

OP needs to forget about hoping for the DS to do his dirty work for him, or entertaining fantasies about beating up people who are I assume decades younger and considerably fitter then him. OP needs to find exactly how much and what he owes, get in contact with those he owes cash to and pay off the debt.

Then the OP can get around to sorting his son out. The son's dealers aren't going to go near him again once what he owes is paid off as they know he's a liability. The Son will have lost the main monkey on the back he has in terms of the debt and then the parent can try and sort him out/make him pay back what he owes.

username123

Pay off the debt! wrote: »

You don't appear to be factoring in the issue of the debt owed to dealers in your response, what in your opinion should be done with that?

Its not the parents responsibility to deal with that. Its the sons.

Pandora2

I refer back to my earlier post, in my friends & her son's case, it started with €500......next time it was €1,000 and it was €2,000 when she called a halt.:eek: These guys have no "Moral Code" and if they identify Mummy/Daddy is going to pay well, it's like having a AAA Credit Rating..."Sure doesn't he/she have her own gaff, a flat screen and a job?" And, they know they are terrified of the outcome if not forthcoming!! In the end they never went near the son to repay his debt....they just rocked up at her door and told her what she had to pay!! Intimidation and criminal damage to her home/car followed when she couldn't pay. To this day she cannot get house insurance and her car insurance is a King's ransom!! Another costly affair!!!

When she eventually got the money together, she put her Son out with the help of the Gardai, he too was an adult, changed the locks, got a barring order...then paid the debt....making it clear to both him and his associates he was gone for good from her home, the Gardai would be called if he appeared and the Golden Goose could lay no more....they tried it once more but got nowhere and as he was located elsewhere and they knew it, they went after him.

It was after that he started to sort himself out. A good number of years on he still walks the Earth and is working through his issues and getting an education!

As for sending him to relatives...he won't go and, in the highly unlikely event he does, what's to stop him robbing the relatives blind and bringing this grief to their door!! This stuff is available at every crossroads in the Country!! Then the OP will have to come up with funds to repay them!! I watched my friend in emotional agony while her hair fell out in handfuls due to the stress and she now recognises it was her own efforts to help him, the invisible umbilical cord and her inability to sever it, that allowed the situation to endure.:(

Paying this debt will lead to more consumption and debts down the road...seen it happen. Not paying it will probably lead to a serious hiding..... but...that is the consequences of his actions....if he never faces it...he will always use Mum/Dad as a sort of "Get out of Jail" free card.

I take no joy in recounting the above account but it might give the OP a view on how they should proceed, it's not all bad news...I attended his son's christening recently and his Mum was obviously the guest of honour:)

qwertytlk

Pay off the debt! wrote: »

You don't appear to be factoring in the issue of the debt owed to dealers in your response, what in your opinion should be done with that?

I'm not approaching this from the parents point of view in trying to protect their (adult) child's supposed addiction issues, I'm approaching it from the point of view of the debt which this lad has to other people, which imo, is what has caused the son to go over the edge.

This debt is not going to disappear, and the OP's Drug Squad friends aren't going to be able to protect their son from feeling the brunt of people who are out of pocket thanks to the OP's sons actions. Forget about the illegality of it all for a moment and accept that debts still need to be paid off.

OP needs to forget about hoping for the DS to do his dirty work for him, or entertaining fantasies about beating up people who are I assume decades younger and considerably fitter then him. OP needs to find exactly how much and what he owes, get in contact with those he owes cash to and pay off the debt.

Then the OP can get around to sorting his son out. The son's dealers aren't going to go near him again once what he owes is paid off as they know he's a liability. The Son will have lost the main monkey on the back he has in terms of the debt and then the parent can try and sort him out/make him pay back what he owes.

actually i did say in a previous post that the son should go to the dealers and try to make some sort of arrangement with them to pay them bill weekly if he cannot afford to pay it all in one go. Wheater this be by handing over his labour each week or ffrom a wage packet. Because in my experience most dealers would rather get their money...even if it is weekly. Im not in any way saying they will be happy with it ,but i reckon they would accecpt it as i have seen people make these arrangements with dealers before.

My main point was that the op should not pay his/her sons debt as this enables and facilitates his addiction and unaccecptable behaviour. I mean if you think about it, if he has the debt paid for him do you think he would be more or less likely ro run up another bill in the future, than he would if he had to hand over his whole labour/wages each week ? I would say that he would be less likely. And depending on how dependant he is on drugs/alcohol, him having to hand over every penny of his own money and take responsibility for his actions could also make him think about nocking the drugs / drink on the head all together so he doesnt end up in a situation like that again. Obviously this last scenario is dependant on the person and their level of addiction i.e if he has only been using weed and alcohol for a short time or he doeasnt have a high dependancy level on either substance, which i suspect from the original post he doesnt.. But this is based purely on presumptions.

flowerchild

I am so sorry to hear about your son - that must be very worrying for you.

I do not have any background in working with people with addictions, so this is just from my heart.

He needs love. He needs to know that you love him unconditionally. "I love you whether you're good or bad" is what we say with our little ones. And they say it right back, when we have stuffed up.

He might need to talk, or he might need quiet time with you, which does not involve any talking.

It must feel as though his life is out of control, and he may be despairing, hence the self-harm.

Two things. Never underestimate the importance of simply saying "I love you" and saying it often. I went through a time in my life when I was very unhappy, and my father used to ring me up regularly through the day and simply say "I love you". My mother used to ring me up and sing a song "Poisoning the Pidgeons in the Park" which made me laugh (against my will) but it still worked to change my state.

And secondly, don't fix everything up for him. That just reinforces that he can't do it for himself.

I remember once I had overspent and got into debt and I rang my father for help. He came straight over and we had a cup of coffee as he got me to go through my papers in an organised way and tot it all up. He then gave me advice about how to budget repayments and helped me work out what to say when I rang who I needed to ring. He helped me fix up the problem but he never let me think it was anything but my problem to solve.

Violence and threats just teach poor ways of problem solving. Love, time and putting your heads together let him know, really know, deep inside, that you are there for him when he needs you most.

kol1965

Hi Again,

I would firstly like to to thank everybody for their help & contributions to my dilemma.
My son is now doing quite well. He is off the drugs. Has attented to Tabor lodge in Cork to meet counsellors on day trips, prior to checking in. They think that attending N.A. in Cork city should be sufficient as his problem isn't madly serious.
(His night of the self harm arose from experimenting with Various tablets along with Cannabis).
He has had urine tests for the last few weeks and all showing clear, so, fingers crossed.

I did meet the drug dealers (with a close-by presence of the drug squad) and paid off the money, I also threatened that if they ever had contact with my son again that I would break both their legs, get the drug squad onto them, plus get their schools involved. It seems to have worked! They have run a mile...
I believe from the drug squad friend of mine that two of them have being lifted in Cork City with stuff on them, houses searched Etc. (As they are all only 16, I'm guessing/hoping that this has caused enough trouble with these guys parents).
I can only hope that this experience will knock some sense into him.
He is on job seekers allowance at the moment and handing it over to me each week until the debt is paid off.

Thanks a million again everybody

K
(His Dad) (I think mostly everyone thought I was his Mother)

qwertytlk

Hi,
good to hear an update on this story as i had thought of your son and yourself a few times and wondered how things had turned out!
Wonderful news he is seeking professional help and going to n.a. It really is a wonderful orgainsation witrh good success rates.
Im glad its all working out. Hopefully all this has givven your son a scare, enough so that he will leave the drugs etc behind him and concentrate on his future.

One thing i will say is that while i understand your resasons for paying the dealers, i really hope it doesnt backfire on you/your son. Especially if their homes have been raided etc as they are likely to think this is due to information you/your son gave.
Just beware there could be some backlash. Hopefully not though,
best of luck with everything and i have my fingers crossed your son keeps going the way he is now.

Athlone_Bhoy

To be honest that's a lot for weed!

Do you ever see him with with the black is his eyes are they pinned - really small.

Could be heroin problem.

Dealers fault for giving him that much and they're only 16. If you were to ring the guards they would have to tell the 16 year olds it was you that rang.

Ickle Magoo

OP, glad to hear your son is on the right road now and the urine testing shows he's off the drugs - I'm closing this thread as posters are still responding to your original post. Just let me know if you want it re-opened.

All the very best

Ickle :cool: