Vaccines

mr.mickels

Any of you refuse vaccines for your children. Our firstborn hasn't been vaccinated, and the second on the way won't be either. I would usually not discuss this with people as most parents are very pro-vaccines but in the last few weeks I was surprised to meet a few others who also refused, it was suggested to me that throughout mainland Europe and USA vaccine uptake was on a slight decrease in the last 2 years, some blaming the hysteria surrounding swine flu vaccine program, and I know in Eastern europe vaccine uptake is far lower than in the west.
Any on the boards here who refrain from taking vaccines for themselves and their children?

octo

mr.mickels wrote: »

Any of you refuse vaccines for your children. Our firstborn hasn't been vaccinated, and the second on the way won't be either. I would usually not discuss this with people as most parents are very pro-vaccines but in the last few weeks I was surprised to meet a few others who also refused, it was suggested to me that throughout mainland Europe and USA vaccine uptake was on a slight decrease in the last 2 years, some blaming the hysteria surrounding swine flu vaccine program, and I know in Eastern europe vaccine uptake is far lower than in the west.
Any on the boards here who refrain from taking vaccines for themselves and their children?

Well, partially. My wife and I have given only measles and bcg to our 4-yr old son. However, I do plan to get the tetanus vaccine soon. It`s a complex issue. I don`t believe in the MMR-Autism connection - but there are some risks. However my wife feels more strongly anti-vaccine than me, so we compromise.

In some sense, I believe that those of us not giving vaccines to our kids are piggy-backing on the efforts of the parents who do administer vaccinations to their kids. Where is polio now?

A highly emotive debate. Be careful of what you`ve started!

Ayla

octo wrote: »

In some sense, I believe that those of us not giving vaccines to our kids are piggy-backing on the efforts of the parents who do administer vaccinations to their kids. Where is polio now?

A highly emotive debate. Be careful of what you`ve started!

Agreed to all.

My husband & I are 100% pro vaccines, however we know a number of families who are 100% anti vaccines. To each their own.

That said, I had to wonder at these families when their children suddenly all came down with whooping cough. When's that last time that disease was heard of, and yet it got them all. This will have health implications for these children for the rest of their lives, and it could have been prevented. As octo implied, non-vaccinating families are keeping these diseases alive and they are very dependent upon the rest of society for minimizing their exposure.

Yes, the chance of getting a number of these diseases is significantly less then it may have been in previous generations, but that is the work of vaccines. And personally, I know that if my child got whooping cough, polio, rubella, german measels, etc because I had decided not to vaccinate against them, I would never forgive myself.

I fully respect each family's decision to make their own choices, but the issue against vaccination is one I just may never understand.

Hobbitfeet

I am trying to decide whether or not to vaccinate my baby when it comes and its a very hard decision. I don't really know what to do. I find it very hard to get good unbiased advice from anywhere or anyone. I know a lot of people who have vaccinated and a few who haven't.

One of my major concerns is the age of baby when vaccines are given. My baby is so vulnerable at this early stage and I think it is crazy to being it a cocktail or very dangerous drugs. Another major concern is that we don't really know what is in the vaccines or what negative effects they may have.

I would love if someone could pass on some links or references that I could research for both pro and against vaccines.

HannahDunne

I got all my children done at the time as I felt the vaccines ie 3 in1 were tried and tested.Thankfully all went well. However I am now faced with the girls being offered the female cancer vaccine and all of them being offered the swine flu vaccine. I have refused both on the grounds I dont believe they are tested enough plus the link between swine flu and nacalapsy is too great

quozl

One of my major concerns is the age of baby when vaccines are given. ... Another major concern is that we don't really know what is in the vaccines or what negative effects they may have.

I can understand this. However while you may not be able to predict with 100% certainty the results of vaccines (although the routine childhood ones have been around for years and given to millions and millions of children...), you can predict what whooping cough, diphteria, german measles etc can do to your children.

So if you decide not to get your children immunised you're choosing an unknown danger (which you can hardly believe is very large considering the number of children routinely immunised with these vaccines) versus a known, major, danger.

You're also choosing your own completely uninformed opinion (this is not an insult, we're all uninformed on most things, we can't be experts on everything, or even many things!) over the opinions of the wider medical and scientific community.

You're then also helping to keep a pool of viable hosts for some very unpleasant illnesses around. Children are again dying from measles (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13561766) in the UK, and all across the developed world, because of these decisions.

Here's a video discussing vaccination v anti-vaccination - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo . This would be my own stance on it too.

Hobbitfeet

quozl wrote: »

Here's a video discussing vaccination v anti-vaccination - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo . This would be my own stance on it too.

Don't mean to be rude but you have listed a video given by Magicians not very convincing or people I would listen to about whether to vaccinate my children or not. I find this video plain ridiculous with no useful info or advice.

CathyMoran

My parents did not give me some of the childhood vaccines, as a result I got whooping cough myself when I was a baby and had to get the rubella vaccination in my 20's...it did not take so when I became pregnant in my 30's I had to be extra vigilant to avoid people who might have it...it was horribly scary. I had the vaccine again after I had my son and luckily it took for second time so I was covered when I had my daughter. Just for the risk to pregnant women alone I feel that the vaccines are necessary. My children have had all of them so far (though I hate when they have to get it done). There was an outbreak of one of the MMR viruses where my son attends but luckily he had his jab and was protected, I have never been more relieved in my life though I had been concerned about giving him the vaccine.

quozl

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

Don't mean to be rude but you have listed a video given by Magicians not very convincing or people I would listen to about whether to vaccinate my children or not. I find this video plain ridiculous with no useful info or advice.

The video is deliberately comic as the debate itself is somewhat irrational - they are framing it quite accurately. The other points I put before it are more seriously put. Do you have any comments on them?

Here's the World Health Organisation page about vaccination - http://www.who.int/topics/immunization/en/

If you choose not to listen to the WHO that is up to you. However then you would be ignoring the medical and scientific communities advice on this. Something they have expertise in, and neither I, nor you, do.

You would also be choosing to ignore the increasing number of deaths in the developed world due to dropping vaccination rates. Vaccines may (in some very rare cases) hurt children, the diseases they protect against regularly do.

Stark

Sure what's years of medical research when compared with "mother knows best"?

quozl

Hobbitfeet, here is the Centre for Disease Control (CDC) advice page to pages on vaccinations http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/populations/parents.html

Here is the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia vaccine education center - http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/

It covers questions such as your concern about children being too young for vaccines.

I can't find any reputable sites arguing against vaccines - I don't believe there are any. I've no doubt I can find a load of random individuals doing so but I wouldn't know which ones to recommend so you would need to google that side of things yourself.

How Strange

It's a highly emotive subject because you're talking about babies and young children, even your little ones. I'm all for scepticism and questioning but the recent reports of a measles outbreak scared me because my son is 8 months old. It made me ask myself how would I feel if he contracted measles from an non immunised child in say his creche. He's too young to have the vaccination so he's very vulnerable. Measles is a rare disease these days but it's on the increase because parents are choosing not to immunise. Personally I couldn't live with the guilt if my son contracted measles or another preventable disease because I chose not to immunise him and he developed life
long complications.

It's one of those things you have to decide as a parent. There's a risk either way but I suppose you have to weigh up which side, carries the greater risk.

LegacyUser

My baby son has just spent 3 weeks in hospital with whooping cough because some parents didnt vaccinate their children & passed this to my baby. He had to endure horrific episodes of not breathing due to this, full time oxygen & feeding tube. Parents should vaccinate their children, what about the children they are passing these illnesses onto?

Moonbeam

Both my kids will be immunised under the national scheme but neither will get the swine flu vaccine.
This is my personal decision and I do not feel other people are wrong for doing it I just feel that it was rushed through.
I got all the vaccinations that were around when I was a kid including the mmr(which had to be paid for back then) due to other health issues.I have had whooping cough twice and had to get the Rubella vaccine again after my 1st child.
I would not be happy if my kids attended a crèche or play school with other kids that were not vaccinated.

Irish times article on vaccinations - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0503/1224295910703.html

lolli

As someone who has hit by two different deadly strains of meningitis in my life I am very for vaccinations.

I contracted Meningococcal meningitis & septicemia at the age of 12 and i almost died from it. Last year at the age of 3 weeks old my daughter caught Streptococcal meningitis and was seriously ill from it.

I have went through the pain of having meningitis, it was awful. I then had to sit and watch my daughter go through the same awful illness. In my opinion a vaccination is the lesser evil. Trust me you don't want your children going through these awful illnesses.

In my opinion I would rather my daughter gets these vaccinations than to have to sit in a hospital with her again, not knowing if shes going to live or die. I know my parents feel the very same way.

The Princess Bride

Speaking as an experienced Paediatric nurse- you would only have to see one child suffer longterm effects from meningitis,(brain damage,deafness),measles (encephalitis),pertussis to jump into the pro- vaccine camp.And believe me one child is one too many.

However.

As a parent ,it is your responsibility to research the individual vaccines and decide whether or not you wish for your child to be vaccinated.My children were given them(Diptheria/Tetanus/Pertussis/MMR) but I made an informed decision based on my research.

I agree with Hannah Dunne & Moonbeam in relation to swine flu /cervical ca vaccines. I refused consent to both and do not regret that decision.When my daughters are >18 years they may consent to cervical ca vaccine if they wish- at present,having read reviews etc....they are both happy to wait. This programme is ridiculous anyway,boys should be given option also.

octo

msthe80s wrote: »

As a parent ,it is your responsibility to research the individual vaccines and decide whether or not you wish for your child to be vaccinated.My children were given them(Diptheria/Tetanus/Pertussis/MMR) but I made an informed decision based on my research.

Would anyone here know if it is possible to have separate vvaccinations, and where they can be done? When I asked my GP for a Tetanus Vaccination for my son, he insisted on having them all. While I favour this, my wife is against it, and the tetanus shot alone is better than nothing. Anyone know?

mr.mickels

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

I would love if someone could pass on some links or references that I could research for both pro and against vaccines.

There would be loads of info and links on both sides of the fence, as I am not in favour of vaccines I could forward some info but an online search of the subject will yield many results. A documentary on the web called vaccine nation has some info, from there you will likely find much more.

This american doctor refused to vaccinate his children, just an intro worth a glance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNSZpcXPw60

Ayla

mr.mickels wrote: »

This american doctor refused to vaccinate his children, just an intro worth a glance.

That clip (just an intro, as you mentioned) does not offer any sort of correlation between his children's health & the fact they didn't vaccinate. I would strongly advocate that the fact that his children haven't had ear infections/respiratory infections on the fact that he's a chiropractor & as such offers them regular adjustments. These types of infections can be caused by chiropractic issues, so the fact his children aren't getting them does not testify as an anti-vaccination argument. All the other co-worker's children he mentioned would not have had the same chiro care, which massively skews his "analysis."

As others have mentioned, anyone looking will find cases of individuals online who have their own such "success stories," but I personally find it narcissistic to believe that unqualified joe smiths think they know more than the WHO, CDC and every other international medical body who advocates widespread vaccination.

mr.mickels

Ayla wrote: »

I personally find it narcissistic to believe that unqualified joe smiths think they know more than the WHO, CDC and every other international medical body who advocates widespread vaccination.

Rather arrogant of you to assume that guy or any others discussing the subject is an "unqualified joe smith". Those of us who chose to refrain from taking vaccines do so after researching much on the subject, as did that doctor you called joe smith. I certainly gave it very serious thought before making such a decision.
WHO and your "international medical body" are in the pocket of the pharma industry. It can't be ignored that vaccine production is a worth multi billions of dollars to big pharma and those who profit from administering it, and as such their "recommendations" should be treated with a certain caution, afterall big pharma (like any business) is only concerned with profits of big pharma.The profits of their products is of far more importance than the efficiency of their products.

I would hope that vaccines could be discussed without resorting to infantile jibes, it is a shame you lowered the tone with your joe smiths remark.

Ayla

mr.mickels wrote: »

Rather arrogant of you to assume that guy or any others discussing the subject is an "unqualified joe smith". Those of us who chose to refrain from taking vaccines do so after researching much on the subject, as did that doctor you called joe smith. I certainly gave it very serious thought before making such a decision.

I would hope that vaccines could be discussed without resorting to infantile jibes, it is a shame you lowered the tone with your joe smiths remark.

Apologies that that caused offense. I call myself -along with most of the rest of the population - joe smith simply because I have not been through years of medical training nor am I qualified to access, read and assess the multitude of studies that have been done on this subject. Whatever google may tell me is only a small percentage of the information that's out there, and all information is slanted in its own right.

It's good that you're obtaining information and making what you feel is an educated decision. That is not being patronising, it is the truth. The fact remains that if the polio virus is circulating any non-immunised child is at risk. I personally don't care if the pharma companies have made their profit through me & my family...we're not going to get hit with polio. And at the end of the day that is all that matters to me.

mr.mickels

This recent admission of a link with a flu vaccine and serious illnesses maybe of interest to some.

http://www.naturalnews.com/033816_swine_flu_vaccines_neurological_disorders.html

mr.mickels

Ayla wrote: »

That clip (just an intro, as you mentioned) does not offer any sort of correlation between his children's health & the fact they didn't vaccinate. I would strongly advocate that the fact that his children haven't had ear infections/respiratory infections on the fact that he's a chiropractor & as such offers them regular adjustments. These types of infections can be caused by chiropractic issues, so the fact his children aren't getting them does not testify as an anti-vaccination argument. All the other co-worker's children he mentioned would not have had the same chiro care, which massively skews his "analysis."

As others have mentioned, anyone looking will find cases of individuals online who have their own such "success stories," but I personally find it narcissistic to believe that unqualified joe smiths think they know more than the WHO, CDC and every other international medical body who advocates widespread vaccination.

Personally, I think your faith in the polio vaccine is misplaced. if you research the subject you will find very many cases of failures among vaccinated children, a clear case it is not 100% effective to say the least. And there are many other factors involved in the reduction in polio incidences, such as banning DDT chemicals. In actual fact, the CDC reports than over 80% of all cases of Polio in USA in the 1970's was caused by the polio vaccine itself and later declared that all but a few imported cases since were caused by the vaccine--and most of the imported cases occurred in fully immunized individuals!!!!

Six New England states reported increases in polio one year after the Salk vaccine was introduced, ranging from more than doubling in Vermont to Massachusetts' astounding increase of 642%. In 1959, 77.5% of Massachusetts' paralytic cases had received 3 doses of IPV (injected polio vaccine). During 1962 U.S. Congressional hearings, Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head of the Dept. of Biostatistics for the University of North Carolina School of Public Health, testified that not only did the cases of polio increase substantially after mandatory vaccinations (50% increase from 1957 to 1958, 80% increase from 1958 to 1959), but that the statistics were manipulated by the Public Health Service to give the opposite impression.

90% of polio cases were eliminated from statistics by health authorities' redefinition of the disease when the vaccine was introduced, while in reality the Salk vaccine was continuing to cause paralytic polio in several countries at a time when there were no epidemics being caused by the wild virus.

For example, in the U.S., thousands of cases of viral and aseptic meningitis are reported each year--these were routinely diagnosed as polio before the Salk vaccine; the number of cases needed to declare an epidemic was raised from 20 to 35; and the requirement for inclusion in paralysis statistics was changed from symptoms for 24 hours to symptoms for 60 days; it is no wonder that polio decreased radically after vaccines--at least on paper.

Jonas Salk, inventor of the injected polio vaccine, testified before a Senate subcommittee that nearly all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by the oral polio vaccine. At a workshop on polio vaccines sponsored by the Institute of Medicine and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Samuel Katz of Duke University cited the estimated 8-10 annual U.S. cases of vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) in people who have taken the oral polio vaccine, and the absence of wild polio from the western hemisphere.

There is alot I could say about the polio/salk vaccine, but it is better everyone informs themselves. Any research will reveal that the general public are often (always imo) mislead as to the effectiveness of any vaccine.

cynder

My kids had all the vaccines, we waited a while before they got the swine flu jab but all 3 were in high risk, due to diabetes and asthmatic coughs.... I was never vaccinated against tb and my boss has tb, I'm vaccinated against it now I also got the mmr as I was never vaccinated against that. I also had whooping cough as a baby and never had diphtheria or men c vaccinations. I did have the polio I remember been given that at school on a sugar cube

Stark

mr.mickels wrote: »

There is alot I could say about the polio/salk vaccine, but it is better everyone informs themselves. Any research will reveal that the general public are often (always imo) mislead as to the effectiveness of any vaccine.

I don't really need to read dodgy internet "evidence". I haven't seen a single child with polio in Ireland for over 20 years. If I were to believe your assertions, the place should be swarming with them.

cbyrd

As a child i had measles mumps and rubella.. it has left me with hearing impairment from 7 years of chronic earaches headaches and throat infections.. a generally impaired immune system that means as i get older i will pick up more allergies to add to the 4 known ones that i have (one that causes annaphylaxis) i was lucky though.. the measles didn't leave me brain damaged or dead...

The thing about vaccines is they're a victim of their own success.. when you don't see the damage the disease can do you don't realise how important it became to eradicate the disease in the first place...

Do you put a seatbelt on your child?? or use an appropriate car seat?? why not protect them against disease that can seriously affect them or even kill..just my humble opinion...;)

mr.mickels

mr.mickels wrote: »

In actual fact, the CDC reports than over 80% of all cases of Polio in USA in the 1970's was caused by the polio vaccine itself and later declared that all but a few imported cases since were caused by the vaccine--and most of the imported cases occurred in fully immunized individuals!!!!

Talk about an abuse of statistics. :rolleyes:

There are two types of polio vaccines - IPV and OPV. IPV means inactive poliovirus vaccine, while OPV means oral poliovirus vaccine. IPV is inactive and therefore incapable of causing illness. OPV is derived from an active polio virus engineered to minimise the risk of causing illness, but it has been shown not to completely eliminate it.

OPV was used rather than IPV in the past. OPV was better at developing immunity, and it was cheaper and easier to administer in mass vaccination campaigns.

The 80% statistic for polio cases caused by the vaccine - the OPV vaccine - sounds interesting, but not as interesting as what it hides. The rate of infection was 1 for every 2.4 million doses, which was far lower than the rate of infection for unvaccinated people. In other words, OPV might not have been perfect, but it was a hell of a lot better than not vaccinating at all.

Since 2000 in the USA (2001 in Ireland) vaccination is with IPV, which is inactive and cannot cause the disease. In some countries in the developing world, OPV is still used for the reasons set out above - and rightly so.

mr.mickels wrote: »

There is alot I could say about the polio/salk vaccine....

I'm sure there is - but it would help if you would read up on the subject properly first.

As a counter to your misinformation about the position of the CDC, here is the CDC's current advice about polio and other vaccinations, as published in July 2010:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

The page is titled "What Would Happen If We Stopped Vaccinations?"

It's worth a read.

Hobbitfeet

cbyrd wrote: »

As a child i had measles mumps and rubella.. it has left me with hearing impairment from 7 years of chronic earaches headaches and throat infections.. a generally impaired immune system that means as i get older i will pick up more allergies to add to the 4 known ones that i have (one that causes annaphylaxis) i was lucky though.. the measles didn't leave me brain damaged or dead...

The thing about vaccines is they're a victim of their own success.. when you don't see the damage the disease can do you don't realise how important it became to eradicate the disease in the first place...

Do you put a seatbelt on your child?? or use an appropriate car seat?? why not protect them against disease that can seriously affect them or even kill..just my humble opinion...;)

Just wondering if you were vaccinated against these before you got them?

cbyrd

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

Just wondering if you were vaccinated against these before you got them?

No i wasn't.. unfortunately i was out before the vaccine..:rolleyes:

i had mumps when i was 18 months this was followed about 4 months later by rubella that's when the earaches started.. measles when i was 4 which made them worse and i eventually had surgery when i was 8, to relieve the stress on the eardrum from all the scarring on my eardrums from abcesses bursting . . i missed over a year of school over 5 years. The pain is one of the biggest memories i have of childhood.. the restrictions .. no swimming, the antibiotics the painkillers,eardrops, nose drops, the hotwater bottles, sleepless nights having to wear a hat that covered my ears whenever i went out.. my left ear has less than 20% hearing and my left eye is weak..
I have 4 children and all have been vaccinated except one.. he's only 2 weeks old. . i wouldn't take a chance that it could happen to them

Hobbitfeet

cbyrd wrote: »

No i wasn't.. unfortunately i was out before the vaccine..:rolleyes:

i had mumps when i was 18 months this was followed about 4 months later by rubella that's when the earaches started.. measles when i was 4 which made them worse and i eventually had surgery when i was 8, to relieve the stress on the eardrum from all the scarring on my eardrums from abcesses bursting . . i missed over a year of school over 5 years. The pain is one of the biggest memories i have of childhood.. the restrictions .. no swimming, the antibiotics the painkillers,eardrops, nose drops, the hotwater bottles, sleepless nights having to wear a hat that covered my ears whenever i went out.. my left ear has less than 20% hearing and my left eye is weak..
I have 4 children and all have been vaccinated except one.. he's only 2 weeks old. . i wouldn't take a chance that it could happen to them

Thanks Would you mind if I asked if your parents had also had measles, mumps and rubella before conceiving you? Were you breastfed? If yes for how long?

cbyrd

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

Thanks Would you mind if I asked if your parents had also had measles, mumps and rubella before conceiving you? Were you breastfed? If yes for how long?

I'm not sure about my parents having had m/m/r .. but i was breast fed for over a year.. i have 6 brothers we were all breastfed i was the only one who got measles mump or rubella.. i'm also the only girl :rolleyes: i'm also the only one who has allergy issues (not related) and auto-immune problems..

Hobbitfeet

cbyrd wrote: »

I'm not sure about my parents having had m/m/r .. but i was breast fed for over a year.. i have 6 brothers we were all breastfed i was the only one who got measles mump or rubella.. i'm also the only girl :rolleyes: i'm also the only one who has allergy issues (not related) and auto-immune problems..

Thank you for being so open I think this will be one of the hardest decisions in my life and I just want to get as much information and knowledge as I can. I want to be able to make an informed decision.

ImRighturWrong

this lady knows what she's talking about... http://tenpennyimc.com/vaccines-and-vaccine-consultations/

also, from an insider of the pharmaceutical idustry....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6NNSafjAy4

also, a long but very informative documentary....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liKsuQhC9Cs

It's not what they tell you (CDC links lol) it's what they don't tell you

DON'T VACCINATE....don't fall into the trap.

quozl

ImRighturWrong wrote: »

this lady knows what she's talking about... http://tenpennyimc.com/vaccines-and-vaccine-consultations/

Have you anything to back your claim that she knows what she's talking about? Apart from the fact that she says she's spent 7000 hours reading about vaccines. You think the CDC don't have 7000 hours of research behind them?

And statements like this (by her)

Vaccines are not “relatively harmless”…as thousands have been injured and have died, as a result of vaccination.

are her showing herself, by her own words, to be unreliable.

If hundreds of millions of people are vaccinated, and by her own claim, thousands have been injured or died, then how is that not "relatively harmless"? Bee stings probably have a higher harm ratio, and without the major benefits that vaccines claim. You don't even need to know anything about either side of the argument to see that this doesn't make sense.

As for

There are no true double-blind, placebo-controlled studies used in vaccine research. The new, investigational vaccine is compared against a vaccine with a “known side effect profile.” Therefore, “control group” is given a “placebo” that is another vaccine, not saline, sterile water, or no vaccine at all.

This is normal practice in medical trials where there is a current best practice treatment. For example in radiotherapy trials you don't have a control group where you give them nothing (and therefore watch them die!) - You give the control group the current best practice and you then compare the trial group to this to see if it's better or worse.

This complaint of hers sounds reasonable at first glance but is absolute nonsense if you think about it.

I would be very interested as to what she thinks wiped out smallpox if it wasn't vaccination. You should note that should doesn't even bother to back up any of her claims, or even say what her claims really are! She just says that vaccines didn't erradicate smallpox. So then, what did? Moon fairies?

Hobbitfeet

So I have been reading Dr Sears The Vaccine Book and find it the most unbiased informative piece of information on vaccines I have found. Although figures are based on America I have been researching figures of disease for Europe which makes it more relevant.
I am still undecided on which vaccine to give and when to give them but this book is making the decision easier and clearer for me.
I just wanted to update in case any other parents or parents to be are in the same situation and looking for clear unbiased advice and research.

Gurgle

-edit- removed post.
Uncivilized.

Hobbitfeet

Gurgle wrote: »

I calls bùll****.

You made the decision first and then went looking for 'research' to support your decision. If you had genuinely researched the subject with an open mind there is no way you would risk the lives of your children based on the mutterings of a few internet nut-jobs who may or may not have any meaningful qualifications.


.

I find your comment extremely rude and inappropriate especially the last paragraph. I have not made any decision yet I am still pregnant and all I am trying to do is make myself as informed as possible before my child gets here.

Moonbeam

Gurgle wrote: »

I calls bùll****.

You made the decision first and then went looking for 'research' to support your decision. If you had genuinely researched the subject with an open mind there is no way you would risk the lives of your children based on the mutterings of a few internet nut-jobs who may or may not have any meaningful qualifications.


.

Mod Warning -
Please keep the thread on topic and do not insult other posters. Some of your post is offensive,off topic and uncalled for. If you continue posting in this manner it will warrant an infraction and possible holiday from this board.

Gurgle

Moonbeam wrote: »

Mod Warning -
Please keep the thread on topic and do not insult other posters.

Sorry. Short fuse on certain topics.

mr.mickels

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

So I have been reading Dr Sears The Vaccine Book and find it the most unbiased informative piece of information on vaccines I have found. Although figures are based on America I have been researching figures of disease for Europe which makes it more relevant.
I am still undecided on which vaccine to give and when to give them but this book is making the decision easier and clearer for me.
I just wanted to update in case any other parents or parents to be are in the same situation and looking for clear unbiased advice and research.

Dr Sears??? Unbiased????? And from whom did Dr Sears receive his entire education on vaccines, who funds all research on vaccines.......hmmmm, I wonder, would it by chance be from the industry that profits from selling vaccines. Yes is the answer to that.

OldNotWIse

cbyrd wrote: »

As a child i had measles mumps and rubella.. it has left me with hearing impairment from 7 years of chronic earaches headaches and throat infections.. a generally impaired immune system that means as i get older i will pick up more allergies to add to the 4 known ones that i have (one that causes annaphylaxis) i was lucky though.. the measles didn't leave me brain damaged or dead...

The thing about vaccines is they're a victim of their own success.. when you don't see the damage the disease can do you don't realise how important it became to eradicate the disease in the first place...

Do you put a seatbelt on your child?? or use an appropriate car seat?? why not protect them against disease that can seriously affect them or even kill..just my humble opinion...;)

But what if they are allergic to the seatbelt material?

liliq

mr.mickels wrote: »

Dr Sears??? Unbiased????? And from whom did Dr Sears receive his entire education on vaccines, who funds all research on vaccines.......hmmmm, I wonder, would it by chance be from the industry that profits from selling vaccines. Yes is the answer to that.

Just to clarify- No is the answer to that.
It's not always pharmaceutical industry that fund research on vaccines, there are a huge number of charities and government organisations (who are not all, believe it or not, in the pockets of the pharma industry) who fund research on vaccines and their development.
I'm not sure whether there is any non industry funded reasearch on vaccines already on the market, but pharma companies are legally obliged to do follow up on all their products, and this is audited thoroughly on a regular basis.
For research on vaccines such as the HPV vaccine against cervical cancer, much of the research was funded by charities similar to the Irish Cancer Society internationally.

Also, there are muliple "Dr. Sears", all qualified nurses and physicians, with many years relelvant clinical experience in pediatrics.

Back to the OP- My child will get all of the well established vaccines, in the time frame they are currently recommended. To be honest, I'd rather leave them slightly later, ie. start the vaccination programme at 6 months, but I obviously don't feel that strongly about it as he's recieved them all on time so far.
When the time comes for the newer vaccines, I might have to rethink it, and wait a few years to see if there have been any adverse effects.

Hobbitfeet

mr.mickels wrote: »

Dr Sears??? Unbiased????? And from whom did Dr Sears receive his entire education on vaccines, who funds all research on vaccines.......hmmmm, I wonder, would it by chance be from the industry that profits from selling vaccines. Yes is the answer to that.

Have you read the Dr Sears book? I find it so far to be very unbiased. It is clearly telling me what ingredients are in the vaccines, how rare or common the diseases are and their seriousness. He also takes into account whether the child will be breastfed and attend childcare early on and many other factors that will naturally protect your child form the possibility of contracting some diseases.

I don't want to rush into vaccinating my child when he or she arrives I want to know I have made the most informed choice possible. I have been researching the pros and cons of vaccinating for the last 5 months and in my opinion Dr Sears The Vaccine Book has been the clearest and most unbiased piece of info I can find on the topic.

Most anti vaccine websites I have found have been negative and misleading in the way they put forward their information and I find the same thing from pro vaccine websites.

There is no doubt that vaccination has done a lot of good and saved a lot of people but there is also no doubt in my mind that there is some serious side effects to some vaccines and a lot of missing research to possible complications arising from vaccinations. This is why I am doing so much research before I decide whether or not to have all or some of the vaccinations, which I think every parent should do.
Can I ask you what information you got and from where, that helped you decide not to vaccinate your child?

Hobbitfeet

[QUOTE=liliq;75858219
Also, there are muliple "Dr. Sears", all qualified nurses and physicians, with many years relelvant clinical experience in pediatrics. .[/QUOTE]

This is not entirely true which I have found out by talking to my GP, midwives and Doctor during my pregnancy. I have asked all of the above people about research on vaccines and none have been able to give me any clear details of recent research or results on vaccines. I found that some actually knew less than I know about vaccines. My GP could not even tell me the ingredients of the vaccines.

Dr Sears took it upon himself to research vaccines in-depth. Most GPs and Physicians don't actually study these details in-depth they just trust that the relevant research has been done by FDA and such.

Ayla

Personally, it took me about half a second to decide categorically to immunise both of my children with all the childhood vaccines within the recommended timeframe. I did not have the Flu or Swine Flu jabs, and the jury's still out on the Cervical Cancer vaccine (although I know which way I'm leaning).

Yes, as with anything, there will be a small percentage of people who have adverse reactions to the chemicals in the drugs, and a small percentage of these people will have severe reactions. That is an unfortunate reality of medicine in general. Nothing is 100% guaranteed.

But as others have said, and I firmly believe, if it is in my power to prevent my child from contracting a potentially debilitating disease then I think it unfair (bordering on neglectful) to refuse this opportunity. How would I ever feel if I chose to not immunise and then my own child contracted something serious that I could have prevented? At least if I immunise them and they beat the odds and still contract the disease I know that I did the best I could for them. I think the seat belt analogy is a fair one.

Another way of thinking of this is this: if (god forbid) you are diagnosed with cancer, would you do anything & everything to overcome it and survive? Or would you be so skeptical of what *might* happen by taking the chemo drugs that you would refuse them and potentially kill yourself in the process?

Statistically speaking, the overwhelming majority of children in this country receive the vaccines, and how many do you know who have had horrible experiences with them? I do not personally know any, either here or in the States where I grew up.

In a pure mathematical cost/benefit analysis, I think giving your child a vaccine (which has a very small chance of causing a side effect) against a dreadful disease (which has a great chance of causing lifelong issues) is a fair risk to take.

liliq

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

This is not entirely true which I have found out by talking to my GP, midwives and Doctor during my pregnancy. I have asked all of the above people about research on vaccines and none have been able to give me any clear details of recent research or results on vaccines. I found that some actually knew less than I know about vaccines. My GP could not even tell me the ingredients of the vaccines.

Dr Sears took it upon himself to research vaccines in-depth. Most GPs and Physicians don't actually study these details in-depth they just trust that the relevant research has been done by FDA and such.

What I meant is that the Dr. Sears website, books, information leaflets etc are written by a collective, and that the collective were not funded by the pharmaceutical industry to study anything about vaccines. Rather they chose certain aspects of pediatric medicine, which they are both qualified and experienced in, such as childhood vaccines to specialise in.

Ayla

I will say one last thing and then I've said all I have to say:

When our eldest daughter was 15 weeks old she suddenly wouldn't stop crying one morning. She had become incrimentally irritable over the last couple of weeks, but we put it down to any number of other normal newborn problems. But then, one morning, she just wouldn't stop her screaming.

We took her to the GP, who decided to send her to the hosp, and we spent the next 5 days undergoing tests and consultations to try to determine what was wrong. The whole time we were a complete wreck - our newborn, lovely, daughter was hooked up to IVs, poked with a lumbar puncture, and in overall horrible pain and no one could tell us why. When we should have been home enjoying our moments together, we were instead pacing the halls & taking turns attempting to ease the suffering of our little girl. The helplessness that we felt was suffocating.

Turns out she had a rather severe grade of a kidney reflux, so all of that suffering was due to a kidney infection. Nothing serious, nothing life threatening, nothing that couldn't be treated in time. But it left its emotional scars all the same.

Now imagine that - multiplied by a thousand, and you'll imagine what it might be like if your child contracts something really serious like menengitis, or rubella, or measles, or....

Now imagine that - multiplied by another thousand, and maybe you can imagine what it would be like to be in that situation but know that you could have prevented it.

As the parent you have the opportunity to avoid that suffering. Why in god's name would you not do it? Because of a concern over an ingredient list??? Because you are suspicious of the pharma companies and their profits? I can tell you 100000% that if someone had offered me a pretty good odd that we could give our daughter a jab that would have prevented that week of hell for us all I would have signed up without a moment's hesitation, regardless of the ingredient list or profit margin.

I personally am friends with a (very anti-vaccination) family who lives a very healthy lifestyle, and their 3-yr old boy is still being breastfed, but he contracted whooping cough in the last 12 months. To this day his mother has said that when he gets sick now he gets *really* sick and the whooping cough re-emerges, and she admits freely that this will be the way her 3-yr old son will live the rest of his life. Worse again, before they knew he was infected they were at a gathering where the infection spread to other (non-immunised) children, so those children will suffer in the same way as well. I am without words as to why anyone would do this to their child?

part time punk

Haven't read the whole thread or looked at the links posted to pro/anti vaccine debates but have to give my tuppence worth ... IMO not vaccinating your child is just stupid, dangerous and selfish. If either of my kids picked up measles, mumps etc. from an unvaccinated child, I would hold their parents personally responsible and seriously think about suing them. *By the way I am not the suing type in general*

trowel

cbyrd wrote: »

As a child i had measles mumps and rubella.. it has left me with hearing impairment from 7 years of chronic earaches headaches and throat infections.. a generally impaired immune system that means as i get older i will pick up more allergies to add to the 4 known ones that i have (one that causes annaphylaxis) i was lucky though.. the measles didn't leave me brain damaged or dead...

The thing about vaccines is they're a victim of their own success.. when you don't see the damage the disease can do you don't realise how important it became to eradicate the disease in the first place...

Do you put a seatbelt on your child?? or use an appropriate car seat?? why not protect them against disease that can seriously affect them or even kill..just my humble opinion...;)

I thought this study might be of interest - reports that those who developed measles as children are protected from allergies later in life.
This has been shown in other similar studies and lends support to childhood illnesses having a protective role to play in the development of the immune system.

http://www.elsevier.es/es/node/2047580

One theory of why there is much more asthma, excema and allergic tendencies around nowadays is that our bodys immune system is not being 'stimulated' through the normal exposure to germs/bugs/viruses.

GerardKeating

Ayla wrote: »

In a pure mathematical cost/benefit analysis, I think giving your child a vaccine (which has a very small chance of causing a side effect) against a dreadful disease (which has a great chance of causing lifelong issues) is a fair risk to take.

That's my reasoning, even if half the hair brained theory's on the net were true, it would still be safer to vaccinate than not to.

quozl

trowel wrote: »

One theory of why there is much more asthma, excema and allergic tendencies around nowadays is that our bodys immune system is not being 'stimulated' through the normal exposure to germs/bugs/viruses.

Hah! My twins are giving me almost a different illness a week currently

There is a vast array of wonderful illnesses out there to stimulate their immune systems without the few really life-threatening or crippling ones that we vaccinate against.