Any solid evidence why I should not vote for McGuinness

Slideshowbob

A right character of rogues lined up on the ballot paper.

So please convince me why I should not vote for a Republican patriot like McGuinness?

This is a serious question, my bother could not give me any substantive reasons last night!!!

longshanks

Lying, murdering scumbag not reason enough?

Slideshowbob

longshanks wrote: »

Lying, murdering scumbag not reason enough?

OK- if it's not too much trouble can you provide evidence (links etc) of where he lied?

Also, can you provide evidence of murders he carried out?

I'll leave you off the scumbag bit as it's very subjective and not necessarily a crime.

pablomakaveli

I reckon you've your mind made up anyway so this thread is pointless.

alastair

Slideshowbob wrote: »

So please convince me why I should not vote for a Republican patriot like McGuinness?

Any reason why you wouldn't vote for any of the other republican patriots running? Or any reason you feel you should vote for McGuinness over the others?

Quazzie

Because of his long running involvement with a terrorist group that has killed hundreds of innocent people. He night not have pulled any triggers but that doesn't mean he is innocent in them murders. That's reason enough for me.

Slideshowbob

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I reckon you've your mind made up anyway so this thread is pointless.

No, my mind is not made up.

This thread could determine how I vote, far from pointless

alastair

Slideshowbob wrote: »

OK- if it's not too much trouble can you provide evidence (links etc) of where he lied?

If you believe he wasn't an IRA member after his imprisonment, I've a lovely bridge to offer you at a reasonable price. Also see Gerry Adams. To be fair, outside this lie, and all that springs from it, McGuinness doesn't seem to much more of a fibber than any politician.

Slideshowbob

alastair wrote: »

Any reason why you wouldn't vote for any of the other republican patriots running? Or any reason you feel you should vote for McGuinness over the others?

I am unconvinced by all of the others to date.

I'd like to keep to the topic in question and not be diverted.

Slideshowbob

Quazzie wrote: »

Because of his long running involvement with a terrorist group that has killed hundreds of innocent people. He night not have pulled any triggers but that doesn't mean he is innocent in them murders. That's reason enough for me.

Any solid evidence of this to convince me? A few links would be great.

Slideshowbob

alastair wrote: »

If you believe he wasn't an IRA member after his imprisonment, I've a lovely bridge to offer you at a reasonable price. Also see Gerry Adams. To be fair, outside this lie, and all that springs from it, McGuinness doesn't seem to much more of a fibber than any politician.

Can you provide evidence he was an IRA member after his imprisonment?

I don't get your bridge analogy if you care to explain?

alastair

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Any solid evidence of this to convince me? A few links would be great.

You want a dated membership list to a secret organisation?

Quazzie

Every man and his dog knows he was involved heavily in the IRA. There is no hard evidence, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. At the end of the day it's all about what you believe, and also all about who's opinions you believe. If you believe that he is involved then I can't understand why you would vote for him. If you decide against believing against what I believe to be obvious then you might justify voting for him.

JohnRiver

Well, apparently, the Queen's last visit to Ireland gave us a huge boost in tourism from England, to the tune of millions and millions of euros, and...well, she's not gonna be coming back to shake McGuinness's hand.

alastair

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I don't get your bridge analogy if you care to explain?

suggesting anyone who believes McGuinness opted out of IRA command post-imprisonment is gullible, and could be 'sold' a bridge.

longshanks

Nice one Martin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5u8YbOyIE

Slideshowbob

alastair wrote: »

You want a dated membership list to a secret organisation?

Yes please, if such evidence is in the public realm.

gandalf

The one event that I believe is most damning about Mr McGuinness character is the story of Frank Hegarty. McGuinness groomed Hegartys mother for weeks telling her that nothing would happen to her son if he returned to Derry. Two days after the man came back to Derry he was abducted and murdered found on this side of the border with masking tape wrapped around his head and a bullet fired through it. Not only did McGuinness lie to that mans mother that nothing would happen to him he did it over a number of weeks. The man from my perspective is the lowest form of pond scum on this planet and is certainly not the standard to represent this country as its head of state.

I am convinced that McGuinness is lying about his membership and responsibility status within the Provisional IRA. If successive ministers in Government here say that all the Gardai intelligence named McGuinness throughout the eighties and nineties as a member of the IRA Army Council and at one stage its chief of staff then that is proof enough for me.

JohnRiver

longshanks wrote: »

Nice one Martin

lol, what a president he'd make!

toexpress

Really is the answer not in the Criminal Records? Someone who was convicted of being a member of a Paramilitary group is hardly the right person for head of state surely?

It's worth remembering that IRA caused untold damage to people, real people their lives were altered in ways that are I cannot even imagine and of course there were more than just the IRA conducting themselves in this manner but they are not asking for the job of head of state.

If a Life Sentence Prisoner on licence were to run for the job would you vote for him or her?

Slideshowbob

Quazzie wrote: »

Every man and his dog knows he was involved heavily in the IRA. There is no hard evidence, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. At the end of the day it's all about what you believe, and also all about who's opinions you believe. If you believe that he is involved then I can't understand why you would vote for him. If you decide against believing against what I believe to be obvious then you might justify voting for him.

ok - so if every man knows surely you can quote one man? Also, isn't the question if he was in the IRA after a certain time (1972) and not a question of if he ever was?

Dogs can't talk or write so I'll ignore that one.

I don't know what to believe so I created this thread to find things out. At the moment still unconvinced, just alot of chitter chatter going on.

toexpress

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Yes please, if such evidence is in the public realm.

Why would you even need it? He admits to being convicted of membership it seems fairly straight forward

Quazzie

gandalf wrote: »

.If successive ministers in Government here say that all the Gardai intelligence named McGuinness throughout the eighties and nineties as a member of the IRA Army Council and at one stage its chief of staff then that is proof enough for me.

He was also banned from entering mainland UK because he was considered a terrorist threat in the 80s so British Intelligence were obviously convinced of his involvement in the IRA.

Slideshowbob

JohnRiver wrote: »

Well, apparently, the Queen's last visit to Ireland gave us a huge boost in tourism from England, to the tune of millions and millions of euros, and...well, she's not gonna be coming back to shake McGuinness's hand.

Any links to the millions data? I'd be interested.

Has she said she wouldn't shake his hand? Didn't she honour his predecessors in the Garden of Rememberance?

Could you have contemplated the Chuckle Brothers 20 years ago?

toexpress

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Also, isn't the question if he was in the IRA after a certain time (1972) and not a question of if he ever was?

If here were not a member why doesn't he come out and say that, all he will say is that he was not convicted of membership after a certain date. He is being very vague you have to see why he is being vague surely.

Slideshowbob

alastair wrote: »

suggesting anyone who believes McGuinness opted out of IRA command post-imprisonment is gullible, and could be 'sold' a bridge.

If I am gullible it should be easy to prove he was a member after this time so .... all hearsay so far

Quazzie

Slideshowbob wrote: »

If I am gullible it should be easy to prove he was a member after this time so .... all hearsay so far

That's all it's ever going to be.

To be honest I think youre just trolling now so I won't be wasting any more time trying to convince you.

Sunnyisland

Sideshow Bob wrote: »

A right character of rogues lined up on the ballot paper.

So please convince me why I should not vote for a Republican patriot like McGuinness?

This is a serious question, my bother could not give me any substantive reasons last night!!!

A former Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) leader, McGuinness has evolved into a firm opponent of contemporary physical force Irish republicanism.
McGuinness is the MP for the Mid Ulster constituency. Like all Sinn Féin MPs, McGuinness practises abstentions in relation to the Westminster parliament. He is also a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly for the same constituency.
Following the St Andrews Agreement and the Assembly election in 2007, he became deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) leader Ian Paisley becoming First Minister on 8 May 2007. On 5 June 2008 he was re-appointed as deputy First Minister to serve alongside Peter Robinson, who succeeded Paisley as First Minister on that date. McGuinness previously served as Minister of Education in the Northern Ireland Executive between 1999 and 2002.On 8 December 2007, while visiting President Bush in the White House with the Northern Ireland First Minister Ian Paisley, Martin McGuinness, said to the press "Up until the 26 March this year, Ian Paisley and I never had a conversation about anything – not even about the weather – and now we have worked very closely together over the last seven months and there's been no angry words between us. ... This shows we are set for a new course.He is a man who has walked the walk and talked the talk like other Irish presidents before him.

JohnRiver

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Any links to the millions data? I'd be interested.

Has she said she wouldn't shake his hand? Didn't she honour his predecessors in the Garden of Rememberance?

Could you have contemplated the Chuckle Brothers 20 years ago?

http://www.patbreen.ie/2011/08/26/tourism-figures-boosted-by-obama-and-queen-visits-%E2%80%93-breen/

And do you really think she's gonna come over to shake his hand? Or that he'd shake her hand even if she did come?

JohnRiver

Who are the chuckle brothers and what've they to do with anything?

Andrew33

One mans Terrorist is another mans Freedom Fighter, plenty of cases around the world where leaders of proscribed organisations have become leaders of the country, and lets not forget here, we ain't voting for the guy carrying the nuclear button around. I don't see McGuinness as being any less entitled to run for the office than any of the rest of the muppets candidates. There's not a single one of the others who are deserving of the role.

gbee

Don't vote for him because you don't like him. Simple as.

Do vote for him because he took action in a cause that all our leaders 'believe in' but they successively acted the role of a puppet Government to Maggie and Blair in reality.

Slideshowbob

longshanks wrote: »

Nice one Martin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5u8YbOyIE

OK so he was referring to Republican activists there in a certain organisation which they chose to join in the knowledge of those conditions in a certain location at a certain time .....

What year was that video from?

gandalf

Andrew33 wrote: »

One mans Terrorist is another mans Freedom Fighter, plenty of cases around the world where leaders of proscribed organisations have become leaders of the country, and lets not forget here, we ain't voting for the guy carrying the nuclear button around. I don't see McGuinness as being any less entitled to run for the office than any of the rest of the muppets candidates. There's not a single one of the others who are deserving of the role.

I agree with you that none of the candidates are high calibre at all. However the one major difference is Martin McGuinness does have blood on his hands (either directly or indirectly) and none of the others do. That alone should exclude this man from any decent citizens voting options.

Slideshowbob

gandalf wrote: »

The one event that I believe is most damning about Mr McGuinness character is the story of Frank Hegarty. McGuinness groomed Hegartys mother for weeks telling her that nothing would happen to her son if he returned to Derry. Two days after the man came back to Derry he was abducted and murdered found on this side of the border with masking tape wrapped around his head and a bullet fired through it. Not only did McGuinness lie to that mans mother that nothing would happen to him he did it over a number of weeks. The man from my perspective is the lowest form of pond scum on this planet and is certainly not the standard to represent this country as its head of state.

I am convinced that McGuinness is lying about his membership and responsibility status within the Provisional IRA. If successive ministers in Government here say that all the Gardai intelligence named McGuinness throughout the eighties and nineties as a member of the IRA Army Council and at one stage its chief of staff then that is proof enough for me.

What year was the Hegarty incident? Any links to info on it?

Any links to Irish ministers stating or anything else showing 80's IRA link?

Slideshowbob

toexpress wrote: »

Really is the answer not in the Criminal Records? Someone who was convicted of being a member of a Paramilitary group is hardly the right person for head of state surely?

It's worth remembering that IRA caused untold damage to people, real people their lives were altered in ways that are I cannot even imagine and of course there were more than just the IRA conducting themselves in this manner but they are not asking for the job of head of state.

If a Life Sentence Prisoner on licence were to run for the job would you vote for him or her?

Any links to his criminal records?

Re Life Sentence Prisoner - I'd need to see the full facts, it's kinda similar to why I've started this thread. Best not to divert from topic though.

Slideshowbob

Quazzie wrote: »

He was also banned from entering mainland UK because he was considered a terrorist threat in the 80s so British Intelligence were obviously convinced of his involvement in the IRA.

Link please?

Slideshowbob

toexpress wrote: »

If here were not a member why doesn't he come out and say that, all he will say is that he was not convicted of membership after a certain date. He is being very vague you have to see why he is being vague surely.

No not clear to me yet

JohnRiver

ever heard of google?

Slideshowbob

Quazzie wrote: »

That's all it's ever going to be.

To be honest I think youre just trolling now so I won't be wasting any more time trying to convince you.

If you have any links I'm all ears

Slideshowbob

realies wrote: »

A former Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) leader, McGuinness has evolved into a firm opponent of contemporary physical force Irish republicanism.
McGuinness is the MP for the Mid Ulster constituency. Like all Sinn Féin MPs, McGuinness practises abstentions in relation to the Westminster parliament. He is also a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly for the same constituency.
Following the St Andrews Agreement and the Assembly election in 2007, he became deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) leader Ian Paisley becoming First Minister on 8 May 2007. On 5 June 2008 he was re-appointed as deputy First Minister to serve alongside Peter Robinson, who succeeded Paisley as First Minister on that date. McGuinness previously served as Minister of Education in the Northern Ireland Executive between 1999 and 2002.On 8 December 2007, while visiting President Bush in the White House with the Northern Ireland First Minister Ian Paisley, Martin McGuinness, said to the press "Up until the 26 March this year, Ian Paisley and I never had a conversation about anything – not even about the weather – and now we have worked very closely together over the last seven months and there's been no angry words between us. ... This shows we are set for a new course.He is a man who has walked the walk and talked the talk like other Irish presidents before him.

Reference? Wikipedia? What's your point?

Slideshowbob

JohnRiver wrote: »

http://www.patbreen.ie/2011/08/26/tourism-figures-boosted-by-obama-and-queen-visits-%E2%80%93-breen/

And do you really think she's gonna come over to shake his hand? Or that he'd shake her hand even if she did come?

Dunno - is she likely to visit again within 7 years anyway? How frequent are British monarch visits to Ireland? :rolleyes:

Hasn't he said he would follow state protocol on such matters?

Quazzie

Seriously. Do your own research. Learn to use Google. Do you honestly expect people here to go and run searches for you. Stop being so lazy.

Slideshowbob

JohnRiver wrote: »

Who are the chuckle brothers and what've they to do with anything?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3897557.ece

Sunnyisland

Sideshow Bob wrote: »

Reference? Wikipedia? What's your point?

You didn't ask for my point you asked for solid evidence of why you should vote for MMG, My point has been posted here in these threads already,
The end of that post would be my some of my points.

alastair

Slideshowbob wrote: »

If you have any links I'm all ears

Have you any links to your request for links? I'm looking for a link to critical faculties.

gandalf

Slideshowbob wrote: »

What year was the Hegarty incident? Any links to info on it?

Any links to Irish ministers stating or anything else showing 80's IRA link?

Ah Sideshow I am sure you are already aware of these. I suspect that unless we have a photo showing Marty blowing someones head off you still wouldn't be convinced. Maybe that would help you decide to vote for him eh

Here is a little info for you.

Some Frank Hegarty info

http://thebrokenelbow.com/2011/09/28/martin-mcguinness-frank-hegarty/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0929/1224304933953.html

Mr Bruton added he did not believe Mr McGuinness’s claim that he left the IRA in the mid-1970s.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0929/1224304934254.html

Nora Owen also said in an interview on Newstalk recently that every shread of Gardai intelligence evidence pointed at McGuinness and Adams having shared leadership of Sinn Fein and the IRA.

Slideshowbob

gandalf wrote: »

I agree with you that none of the candidates are high calibre at all. However the one major difference is Martin McGuinness does have blood on his hands (either directly or indirectly) and none of the others do. That alone should exclude this man from any decent citizens voting options.

Can you provide evidence of blood on his hands (direct)?

irishdude11

gandalf wrote: »

I am convinced that McGuinness is lying about his membership and responsibility status within the Provisional IRA. If successive ministers in Government here say that all the Gardai intelligence named McGuinness throughout the eighties and nineties as a member of the IRA Army Council and at one stage its chief of staff then that is proof enough for me.

Maybe you can tell me why the British or Irish governments never locked him up and threw away the key considering they had all this intelligence on him leading the IRA and being responsible for several murders?

Slideshowbob

JohnRiver wrote: »

ever heard of google?

What should I search under on Google?

gandalf

I already have with the information posted about Mr Hegartys murder which McGuinness was involved with, you are choosing to ignore it.

Another article.

Hurst also names Martin McGuinness as the man Scappaticci answered to directly within the Provisional IRA.

"The security unit came under the operational command of Northern Command PIRA … and the person in charge of that unit throughout the entire Troubles was PIRA member Mr James Martin McGuinness MP.

"Mr McGuinness was the operational commander of Mr Scappaticci and directly involved in matters of life and death for persons rightly or indeed wrongly suspected of informing upon PIRA members.

"Mr McGuinness was also a key player in the long-term strategic strategies used by PIRA and thus was involved in almost all major strategic decisions, political kidnaps, human bombs etc."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/11/ira-murders-claim-to-smithwick

As others have said google is your friend.