How pathetically brainwashed can people be?

fat__tony

1,100 people it seems. :mad:

Fianna Fáil leader Micheal Martin has told supporters that there is "a lot of fight" left in his party.
Addressing the annual Cairde Fáil fundraising dinner in Dublin's Burlington Hotel, Mr Martin insisted this would not be the generation to abandon Fianna Fáil.
"There is no way to put a gloss on the election result, and it helps no one to try."
Mr Martin said he regretted the distance which grew between the Parliamentary Party and the membership during the long stretch in Government, adding he was determined to put it right.
"After four months of travelling the country to meet with our members, I can tell you something for sure - they are up for it. They believe in the Fianna Fáil tradition. They are proud of our service to this nation over 85 years."
He said next February's Ard Fheis would vote on radical changes to the party's structures, and a new set of fundamental aims to replace those adopted in 1926.
Mr Martin said the Government was drawing in a deep well of hope and expectation in the country, but that well would run dry if it continued to be dismissive of the Oireachtas and of anyone who challenged it.
He also paid tribute to his predecessor, Brian Cowen.
Around 1,100 people are attending the dinner, at a cost of €85 a head.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1001/fiannafail.html

€85 a head to keep these corrupt bastards who wrecked the country financially afloat.

They should be all locked-up.

FreudianSlippers

So it's pathetic for people to be interested in fixing their political party? Just because they fúcked up in the past doesn't mean they cannot fix their problems and bring in new blood.

PS: before you start flipping out and accusing me of being a FF member; I'm not.

fat__tony

fat__tony wrote: »

They should be all locked-up.

You think anyone who holds a different political view from you should be locked up? For attending a dinner?

paddyandy

My poor brain could do with something.....a wash maybe after all the media muck it's adhered to over the years.The filth from popular culture still bothers me remaining neurons..

thebman

Does nobody else see the credibility problem of MM paying tribute to Cowen after he is trying to say that FF have admitted to the mistakes they made in the past which were largely on Cowen's watch as Minister for Finance and Taoiseach?

There is also The Rise And Fall Of FF on TV3 recently where they largely blamed Cowen for all the mistakes made and heavily criticised his attitude towards Public Relations.

He can't have it both ways.

goose2005

thebman wrote: »

Does nobody else see the credibility problem of MM paying tribute to Cowen after he is trying to say that FF have admitted to the mistakes they made in the past which were largely on Cowen's watch as Minister for Finance and Taoiseach?

There is also The Rise And Fall Of FF on TV3 recently where they largely blamed Cowen for all the mistakes made and heavily criticised his attitude towards Public Relations.

He can't have it both ways.

In FF you can. Their last four leaders have all been airbrushed from party history, just as MM has forgotten all those years he spent at cabinet.

Sierra Oscar

thebman wrote: »

Does nobody else see the credibility problem of MM paying tribute to Cowen after he is trying to say that FF have admitted to the mistakes they made in the past which were largely on Cowen's watch as Minister for Finance and Taoiseach?

Martin didn't exonerate Cowen at all in relation to past mistakes made - he was merely acknowledging that once it came to making tough decisions to attempt to sort the economic mess out Cowen didnt shy away from doing so.

I was actually at the dinner - there was a very constructive and energetic atmosphere I must say.

Permabear

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PeterIanStaker

thebman wrote: »

Does nobody else see the credibility problem of MM paying tribute to Cowen after he is trying to say that FF have admitted to the mistakes they made in the past which were largely on Cowen's watch as Minister for Finance and Taoiseach?

There is also The Rise And Fall Of FF on TV3 recently where they largely blamed Cowen for all the mistakes made and heavily criticised his attitude towards Public Relations.

He can't have it both ways.

I think FF at the moment are engaging in the kind of revisionism and airbrushing that Orwell wrote of in 1984. I suppose Meehole Martin forgot he set up the HSE as well. No mention of that little bag of pus Ahern by any chance?

strokemyclover

FF is the devil inside us all. Now they're in opposition to put them down is a kind of subconscious act of self-loathing (how could we have been so stupid). It must be otherwise we wouldn't have voted them in in our droves in the past - it's not just pensioners/people on social welfare/big business/etc.. who vote.

Seems to be an awful lot of people shouting them down on this site despite probably voting for them at least once in the past or given them a 2nd or 3rd preference, etc..

Seeing as I've never voted for anyone, blah blah blah

*P1sses against the wind*

Permabear

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MagicMarker

I wouldn't pay 85 quid for tickets to see The Beatles, let along eating a plate of chips while wearing a dickie bow.

Mr Trade In

Sinn Féin and a few of the Independents are the opposition at the moment, these clowns would be best retiring or disbanding and collecting their massive unearned pensions, either way if they are still arround come the next election they will still get back in in some form or another as that is the nature of Irish politics, come election time we as a people tend more often than we should to forgive and forget if you are the opposition. Wonder of the 1,100 zombies how many were concession .

strokemyclover

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I agree with what you are saying but it is much easier to look at a specific party's mistakes and joke at the reform they are attempting than to look at the massive holes in our political system. It just seems to be the general consensus on this site.

As previously mentioned, I'm neither for or against any political party currently out there at the moment or in my past. To me it's akin to backing a horse going into a glue factory

Sierra Oscar

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

All parties have tried to buy themselves election victories over the last number of successive elections - and we will be in this mess down the line again if that mentality is not addressed amongst our politicians.

And please - SF members, your party bought into the "flash the cash" mentality too. Some picks from your 2007 manifesto:

- Hundreds of extra buses for Dublin Bus alone.
- Abolish all toll roads (whilst also constructing a new motorway from Dublin to Donegal . . . )
- Double living alone allowances amongst many other allowances.
- Completely abolish means testing for various allowances.
- Lower ESB bills.
- Extend medical cards to over 100,000 extra people (FG even had that one!)
- Create more than a dozen new Quangos (including a Housing Ombudsman alongside a separate Housing Agency)
- Construct more than 70,000 social houses alongside creating a Minister for Housing.
- Give all school children free breakfasts and lunches every day.
- €130 ICT provision for every school child.
- Provide free child care for all children prior to their entry into school (like really, who was going to pay for all of this stuff?)
- Build half a dozen new rail lines.

And a whole lot more, alongside narrowing tax bands - and people label FF the populist party . . .

raymon

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I disagree , other parties would not have engaged in forgery, theft, perjury, tax evasion, misrepresentation, corruption, treason , and gross incompetence.

The Soldiers of Treason have ruined our economy

thebman

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Martin didn't exonerate Cowen at all in relation to past mistakes made - he was merely acknowledging that once it came to making tough decisions to attempt to sort the economic mess out Cowen didnt shy away from doing so.

I was actually at the dinner - there was a very constructive and energetic atmosphere I must say.

This is the problem with journalists throwing in one line and not explaining what he was acknowledging I guess. Very poor article in that case, obviously not much thought given to it.

Sierra Oscar

thebman wrote: »

This is the problem with journalists throwing in one line and not explaining what he was acknowledging I guess. Very poor article in that case, obviously not much thought given to it.

It was put up a mere few minutes after the speech was made so I am not surprised - although in anycase footage of the speech will probably go online over the next day or so.

Spacedog

I would lave liked to have been there...





...with a loaded minigun.

cavedave

Sierra Oscar

and we will be in this mess down the line again if that mentality is not addressed amongst our politicians.

I agree with this but surely the mentality is bound to arise amongst politicians if that mentality gets them elected by the electorate?

raymon

I disagree , other parties would not have engaged in forgery, theft, perjury, tax evasion, misrepresentation, corruption, treason , and gross incompetence.

forgery: There were always mirky allegations around the workers party and counterfeiting


treason: sinn fein did some dodgy stuff in relation to the continued existence of the Irish state.

misrepresentation: i do not think ff TD's were alone in having dodgy expenses

Some allegations have been made about Lowry involving many of the other misdeeds on the list.

raymon

cavedave wrote: »

forgery: There were always mirky allegations around the workers party and counterfeiting
I can think of workers party, sinn fein, fine gael,

treason: sinn fein did some dodgy stuff in relation to the continued existence of the Irish state.

misrepresentation: i do not think ff TD's were alone in having dodgy expenses

Some allegations have been made about Lowry involving many of the other misdeeds on the list.

Sure I concede that SF may have had traitors and workers party may have had forgers.

But Lowry was a FF ally in the last few years since he was booted out of FG.
Definitely a FFer in spirit

FF have had a ghastly crew ...... even todays leader lodged donations from a developer into his wife's bank . And a perjuror still holds a top job. Disband now and apologise

Permabear

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NTMK

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So it's pathetic for people to be interested in fixing their political party? Just because they fúcked up in the past doesn't mean they cannot fix their problems and bring in new blood.

PS: before you start flipping out and accusing me of being a FF member; I'm not.

How can you fix the party of its problems when those that caused the problems are still there?

Its the Typical FF lip service

raymon

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

No party is immune from corruption .... look at Lowry before he was kicked out of FG

The difference is that FF tolerated and promoted the most corrupt. A FF badge of honour.

In fact they took Lowry under their wing once he was exposed .

Birds of a feather

RandolphEsq

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

We need to look at what actually happened, and FF were heavily corrupt the way they intertwined the banks with the developers and the government, all one big happy family of fat cats skimming the cream from the top of an imaginary vat of raw milk.

BrianD

raymon wrote: »

Sure I concede that SF may have had traitors and workers party may have had forgers.

But Lowry was a FF ally in the last few years since he was booted out of FG.
Definitely a FFer in spirit

FF have had a ghastly crew ...... even todays leader lodged donations from a developer into his wife's bank . And a perjuror still holds a top job. Disband now and apologise

Are you making this stuff up?

Lowry went from Labour to FG to Independent. Nowhere did he join FF. All he did was a deal with the incoming Government as did other Independents. Let's face it the only hope an independent has for reelection is to do a deal and get thanked for it. As a result he had to side with the government. But that's our political system.

Like it or not, FF gave us what we wanted for over 15 years. We thought they were great then and never questioned a single policy and how it would be funded. I doubt if the opposition parties would have done much differently. The people of Ireland also have to face up to their part in the boom to bust.

If somebody wants to organise a legal political fundraiser let them at it. It would not surprise me if the event was rammed. FF still have a huge if slightly subdued support base.

Let's look at SF and their level of corruption. They insist that they only pay "average industrial salaries" and pocket the difference into the party coffers. This should be gifted back to the state. Instead the party the party that describe them as anti establishment are actually dependent on the establishment financially.

PARKHEAD67

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So it's pathetic for people to be interested in fixing their political party? Just because they fúcked up in the past doesn't mean they cannot fix their problems and bring in new blood.

PS: before you start flipping out and accusing me of being a FF member; I'm not.

Theyve pretty much fcuked up the country for us and our children.Dont defend the indefencible.Berties gang has pretty much screwed up our lives and a future generation.Its as simple as that.His biggest regret was not getting the go-ahead for the bertie -bowl.Aw bless. Such humility from a humble man.FF should just stop existing.I never ever voted for them.My father always advised against them.Before they were finally caught out.He always said they were a bunch of crooks and by God was he proved right.

PARKHEAD67

BrianD wrote: »

Are you making this stuff up?

Lowry went from Labour to FG to Independent. Nowhere did he join FF. All he did was a deal with the incoming Government as did other Independents. Let's face it the only hope an independent has for reelection is to do a deal and get thanked for it. As a result he had to side with the government. But that's our political system.

Like it or not, FF gave us what we wanted for over 15 years. We thought they were great then and never questioned a single policy and how it would be funded. I doubt if the opposition parties would have done much differently. The people of Ireland also have to face up to their part in the boom to bust.

If somebody wants to organise a legal political fundraiser let them at it. It would not surprise me if the event was rammed. FF still have a huge if slightly subdued support base.

Let's look at SF and their level of corruption. They insist that they only pay "average industrial salaries" and pocket the difference into the party coffers. This should be gifted back to the state. Instead the party the party that describe them as anti establishment are actually dependent on the establishment financially.

Cool. Blame Sinn Fein if all else fails.You seriously couldnt make this s**t up.:eek:

Permabear

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raymon

Permabear wrote: »

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FF were hideously corrupt . Part of their culture and soul.

Im glad that the FFers had a chance to clap and cheer and go " hip hip horray" at their dinner , but that doesn't make them any less treasonous or corrupt.

raymon

BrianD wrote: »

Are you making this stuff up?

Lowry went from Labour to FG to Independent. Nowhere did he join FF. All he did was a deal with the incoming Government as did other Independents. Let's face it the only hope an independent has for reelection is to do a deal and get thanked for it. As a result he had to side with the government. But that's our political system.

Like it or not, FF gave us what we wanted for over 15 years. We thought they were great then and never questioned a single policy and how it would be funded. I doubt if the opposition parties would have done much differently. The people of Ireland also have to face up to their part in the boom to bust.

If somebody wants to organise a legal political fundraiser let them at it. It would not surprise me if the event was rammed. FF still have a huge if slightly subdued support base.

Let's look at SF and their level of corruption. They insist that they only pay "average industrial salaries" and pocket the difference into the party coffers. This should be gifted back to the state. Instead the party the party that describe them as anti establishment are actually dependent on the establishment financially.

I will not defend SF. Why would I defend them. It doesn't make FF look any better.

Lowry was aligned with FF.

I don't see your other point , are you saying FF were not corrupt or treasonous ?

orourkeda

MagicMarker wrote: »

I wouldn't pay 85 quid for tickets to see The Beatles, let along eating a plate of chips while wearing a dickie bow.

I wouldnt pay 85 cents to watch the beatles

djpbarry

raymon wrote: »

The difference is that FF tolerated and promoted the most corrupt.

The idea that FF are solely responsible for corruption in Irish society is absolutely ridiculous. The electorate tolerates corruption and the electorate was quite happy to tolerate FF as long as the value of their property was increasing.

raymon

djpbarry wrote: »

The idea that FF are solely responsible for corruption in Irish society is absolutely ridiculous. The electorate tolerates corruption and the electorate was quite happy to tolerate FF as long as the value of their property was increasing.

Don't misquote me. I never said that FF were the only dodgy dealers. FF were corrupt to the core , that's all I am saying.

Seth Brundle

djpbarry wrote: »

The idea that FF are solely responsible for corruption in Irish society is absolutely ridiculous. Some of The electorate tolerates corruption and some of the electorate was quite happy to tolerate FF as long as the value of their property was increasing.

Fixed your post!

Voodoo_rasher

they've not gone away you know:D

Peep O'Day

fat__tony wrote: »

1,100 people it seems. :mad:

€85 a head to keep these corrupt bastards who wrecked the country financially afloat.

They should be all locked-up.

It's you and your thankers who are pathetic not those people. I know many a good FF supporter, who to a man are annoyed with what happened over the last the decade. They want to see a rejuvenated FF party without all the dirt that has become before. Absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

I know this wasn't the RABBLE RABBLE HURRR HUURRRR ALL FIANNA FÁIL ARE SCUM RABBLE RABBLE HURRR post you were looking for :rolleyes:

kbannon

kbannon wrote: »

Fixed your post!

Don't do that please

Monty Burnz

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This was due to a realisation on the part of the other parties that Fianna Failure-style auction politics actually works. The Irish electorate is venal and has a short memory - they don't care if Fianna Failure previously ruined the country economically in the 70s and under Dev, they'll vote for them if the promise lots of goodies.

The only rational behaviour from a competing party is to join in, or enjoy the moral high ground and political irrelevance. It's not a failure by the other parties - it's a failure of the Irish electorate and Fianna Failure combined.

PARKHEAD67

raymon wrote: »

Don't misquote me. I never said that FF were the only dodgy dealers. FF were corrupt to the core , that's all I am saying.

What you said there was 100% factual.

Son Of A Vidic

Looking at the thread title and it's mention of brainwashing, the first thing that sprung to mind was this. Has Ireland ever had a better case of brain washing or misleading self delusion?

djpbarry

raymon wrote: »

I never said that FF were the only dodgy dealers.

No, but you've singled out FF for criticism.

thebman

djpbarry wrote: »

The idea that FF are solely responsible for corruption in Irish society is absolutely ridiculous. The electorate tolerates corruption and the electorate was quite happy to tolerate FF as long as the value of their property was increasing.

Yes it is important to ensure that we get the reform we pushed for in the last election now though to try to get higher standards in office.

Rather than focusing on ensuring FF die, people would be better to ensure FG introduce higher standards for our offices.

I think a large part of the problem is the politically structure in Ireland which encourages no reform for those in power. We need to fix that and so far FG, dragging their heels on it. There better be some significant movement on it before the next election takes place.

raymon

djpbarry wrote: »

No, but you've singled out FF for criticism.

Yes I did single out FF, because these soldiers of treason ruined our economy, in addition to being corrupt.

djpbarry

raymon wrote: »

Yes I did single out FF, because these soldiers of treason ruined our economy...

All by themselves?

Monty Burnz

djpbarry wrote: »

All by themselves?

I would say 'no', but to look at it the way you should asses a government: could they have prevented it? Yes they could.

Proper regulation of the banks, sensible taxation policies and careful control of public spending would have us sitting pretty today, rather than bankrupt.

djpbarry

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I would say 'no', but to look at it the way you should asses a government: could they have prevented it? Yes they could.

I’m not disputing that and I’m certainly not defending FF’s policies. But we all know very well that any party that proposed sensible economic policies in the run-up to the 2002 and/or 2007 elections would not have gotten into government. It’s against this background that the “FF raped Ireland” mantra looks completely disingenuous.

raymon

djpbarry wrote: »

All by themselves?

The fact that FF had accomplices is irrelevant to this thread.

Whether one developer , or 100 , whether one banker or 50 what does it matter.

FF soldiers of treason ruined our economy

I am reminded of this every day.

vellocet

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I was actually at the dinner - there was a very constructive and energetic atmosphere I must say.

Which is what worries me.

You don't have the human decency to simply exit the political scene.

vellocet

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m not disputing that and I’m certainly not defending FF’s policies. But we all know very well that any party that proposed sensible economic policies in the run-up to the 2002 and/or 2007 elections would not have gotten into government. It’s against this background that the “FF raped Ireland” mantra looks completely disingenuous.

So what, we shrug our shoulders and let them off the hook?

djpbarry

raymon wrote: »

The fact that FF had accomplices is irrelevant to this thread.

I was referring to the electorate.