Sale of State Assets

Sonnenblumen

Government is to establish a new unit to oversee the sale of State Assets. Amongst the early favourites are ESB, Coillte, Bord Gais etc. But there seems to be desire to extend this list to generate as much badly needed revenue. So what other State Assets should be added to the list for consideration?

I would add RTE.

fontanalis

Anglo Irish bank.

krudler

Ryan Tubridy's sh1t eating smug grin. if it was possible to convert it into a sustainable fuel there'd be no wars for oil anymore.

Zebra3

So we are selling off the family jewels to pay off private gambling debts?

T'rific. :rolleyes:

It'll probably be those gamblers whose losses we are covering who are gonna come in and buy these assets on the cheap.

The Irish taxpayer raped once more.

Then again, what do you expect when they keep voting for right-wing crooks? :rolleyes:

ScumLord

I thought we just gave away state assets?

fontanalis

ScumLord wrote: »

I thought we just gave away state assets?

Such as?

mackg

krudler wrote: »

Ryan Tubridy's sh1t eating smug grin. if it was possible to convert it into a sustainable fuel there'd be no wars for oil anymore.

You couldn't give that away!

smk89

krudler wrote: »

Ryan Tubridy's sh1t eating smug grin. if it was possible to convert it into a sustainable fuel there'd be no wars for oil anymore.

Ryan Tubrity's ears, put them in space and use them to reflect radio wave their that big

Zen65

fontanalis wrote: »

Such as?

I'm guessing ScumLord is referring to our oil?

Z

Boom Chickaboom

i would vote for eircom too.

How about we sell half of the Dail into slavery? Or if we needed the revenue so badly, Teachtai Dala porn

You've been a baaaaaaaaaad Ceann Carlaich....

El Weirdo

Boom Chickaboom wrote: »

i would vote for eircom too.

Erm, you're about 10 years too late.

Boom Chickaboom

El Weirdo wrote: »

Erm, you're about 10 years too late.

ORLY?

Adamantium

god i wish they would amalgamate rte into tg4 rather than the other way around...........the stuff tg4 produces is great in comparison to the overbloated mess that is rte,

i mean look for god sake they have the likes of claire byrine and grainne seoige wasted in light fluffy material when they could have them hosting primetime and the 6.01 news, why do they have ryan tubridy there when there are FAR more capable people of hosting a friday night entertainment show.

My dream for the LATE LATE Show is for them to get Sean Moncrieff from Newstalk to host it, quirky off the cuff when he needs to be and serious and sensitive when the situation calls for it and not fake....... from listening to him the last year; he seems like a geuninely funny guy and has a real interest in people, he's probably the best Irish radio presenter at the mo

The job would fit him like a glove

but will they trim the fat and call the for drastic changes needed to save RTE from irrelvamce, unlikely

Stinicker

I think RTÉ should be privatised, they all ready give us car crash tv, adverts and if they had to compete in the real world a few of their lackies would quickly have their wings clipped. Privatise RTÉ and put the licence fee into the trying to fill back up the black hole Fianna Fail left us with.

El Weirdo

Boom Chickaboom wrote: »

ORLY?

No sorry, you're right.

It was 12 years ago.

squod

Those companies are heavily unionised and the state is in hock for massive pension pay-outs for each of their employees. Can't see any of them being sold bar Coilte. Possibly the jewel in the crown for those interested in carbon trading.

Zebra3

fontanalis wrote: »

Such as?

€100billion of taxpayers' money.

:mad::mad::mad:

Richard Hillman

The irony is that the one state asset the people most want to be sold (RTE) wont even be considered :rolleyes:

Sonnenblumen

Stinicker wrote: »

I think RTÉ should be privatised, they all ready give us car crash tv, adverts and if they had to compete in the real world a few of their lackies would quickly have their wings clipped. Privatise RTÉ and put the licence fee into the trying to fill back up the black hole Fianna Fail left us with.

Agree. The State's involvement in public sector TV/radio broadcasting is fair enough, but I see no role for it to bankrolling onwards and upwards failed quasi commercial media stations. Why does the State need to be so heavily involved in media, especially when sick people wait longer for treatment, children cannot access SNTs, etc etc etc. Criminal negligence by the Gov.

Re-establish a modest size public broadcast unit, eg Lyric and flog all of it's inrestes in TV and radio. The licence fee can be dramatically reduced and still finance the more modest operation.

Fat cat RTE personnel can like the rest of us go compete in the real world for a living.

It is unbelieveable that the State will have to pick up the can again for RTE's operational deficit (2011 est € 30mio) and look at the savage cutbacks and trauma in essential services. Shameful.:mad:

Sorry, rant over.

Stinicker

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Agree. The State's involvement in public sector TV/radio broadcasting is fair enough, but I see no role for it to bankrolling onwards and upwards failed quasi commercial media stations. Why does the State need to be so heavily involved in media, especially when sick people wait longer for treatment, children cannot access SNTs, etc etc etc. Criminal negligence by the Gov.

Re-establish a modest size public broadcast unit, eg Lyric and flog all of it's inrestes in TV and radio. The licence fee can be dramatically reduced and still finance the more modest operation.

Fat cat RTE personnel can like the rest of us go compete in the real world for a living.

It is unbelieveable that the State will have to pick up the can again for RTE's operational deficit (2011 est € 30mio) and look at the savage cutbacks and trauma in essential services. Shameful.:mad:

Sorry, rant over.

Totally agree RTÉ still make a loss despite the €160 licence fee and millions in advertising, they have too many over paid useless staff and the stuff they produce is dire anyway.

Like I have no problem with say Charlie Sheen making millions in the private film and tv industry but I have a big problem with cretins like Tubridy, Anne Doyle, Miriam O'Callaghan and that absolute scumbag Brendan O'Connor, the link between the four? They are all Fianna Fail lackies who got into their position through political clout and while FF were happily sinking the Ireland inc. RTÉ fiddled while Rome burned.

Now that FG are in power and left to clean up the mess you suddenly have RTÉ reporting on everything, people think Fox News is biased; at least they are honest about being biased and not the underhand corrupt sort of media propaganda machine that RTÉ are wagging the Fianna Fail tail.

The BBC at least produce some decent watchable tv and rolled out their Freeview long before our Saorview, they have more resources but are not such a shambles like RTÉ. Privatise them and let them sink or swim, we will only get the same crap churned out anyway.

I am not in favour of FG by anymeans but the dog in the street can surely see the sort of lowlifes that inhabit RTÉ and their hidden agenda.

SafeSurfer

What a crazy situation.

Privately owned companies make bad decisions, have to be nationalised and Joe citizen picks up the tab.

To pay for this nattionalised companies are privatised and once again Joe citizen will get screwed.

You really could not make this stuff up.

Dionysus

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I would add RTE.

Stinicker wrote: »

I think RTÉ should be privatised, they all ready give us car crash tv, adverts and if they had to compete in the real world a few of their lackies would quickly have their wings clipped. Privatise RTÉ and put the licence fee into the trying to fill back up the black hole Fianna Fail left us with.

What a pity it is that some people are unable to separate the problem of RTÉ presenters being paid ridiculous and unjustifiable amounts of money, from the idea of Ireland having a public service broadcaster free from the control of private capitalists.

So, when RTÉ is "sold off", what do you two geniuses propose will replace it? A Tony O'Reilly-owned rag tv/radio station run by Harris, Fanning and Dudley Edwards dedicated to the most ignorant and benighted elements in Irish society and attracting the dimmest and most vacuous audience which only the Sunday Independent has hitherto done? A similarly tabloidesque Denis O'Brien-owned station which glorifies tax avoiders like O'Brien and advocates increased taxes on PAYE earners and below subsistence rates of social welfare payments? Or a, heaven forfend, Rupert Murdoch-owned tv/radio station which would undermine democracy just as much as an O'Reilly or O'Brien-owned tv/radio station?

Put your cards on the table, because there's no way in God's earth that I'm going to accept the principal propaganda mouthpiece in the state in the ownership of anti-Irish tax avoiding elements like O'Reilly and O'Brien who have thus far bribed and corrupted the Irish democratic system and used Ireland as their plaything. Handing RTÉ into their hands is about the most supremely stupid, doltish, idiotic and abjectly moronic idea which all the schools of morons on the entire planet together could propose.

If you really, really are oblivious to the thickness of your proposal, have a look at what Berlusconi's control of the Italian media has done to the laughing stock of the world that now is Italy.

Dionysus

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The irony is that the one state asset the people most want to be sold (RTE) wont even be considered :rolleyes:

And when was this astonishing survey of "the people" taken? Facts and figures, please.

JeanLucPicard

Zebra3 wrote: »

So we are selling off the family jewels to pay off private gambling debts?

T'rific. :rolleyes:

It'll probably be those gamblers whose losses we are covering who are gonna come in and buy these assets on the cheap.

The Irish taxpayer raped once more.

Then again, what do you expect when they keep voting for right-wing crook? :rolleyes:

Hasnt the International Forestry Fund shown a great interest in buying up Coillte?

And guess who is behind this baby? Our old friend......

http://www.forestry-fund.com/Key-People/chairman-bertie-ahern.html

General General

Dionysus wrote: »

What a pity it is that some people are unable to separate the problem of RTÉ presenters being paid ridiculous and unjustifiable amounts of money, from the idea of Ireland having a public service broadcaster free from the control of private capitalists.

So, when RTÉ is "sold off", what do you two geniuses propose will replace it? A Tony O'Reilly-owned rag tv/radio station run by Harris, Fanning and Dudley Edwards dedicated to the most ignorant and benighted elements in Irish society and attracting the dimmest and most vacuous audience which only the Sunday Independent has hitherto done? A similarly tabloidesque Denis O'Brien-owned station which glorifies tax avoiders like O'Brien and advocates increased taxes on PAYE earners and below subsistence rates of social welfare payments? Or a, heaven forfend, Rupert Murdoch-owned tv/radio station which would undermine democracy just as much as an O'Reilly or O'Brien-owned tv/radio station?

Put your cards on the table, because there's no way in God's earth that I'm going to accept the principal propaganda mouthpiece in the state in the ownership of anti-Irish tax avoiding elements like O'Reilly and O'Brien who have thus far bribed and corrupted the Irish democratic system and used Ireland as their plaything. Handing RTÉ into their hands is about the most supremely stupid, doltish, idiotic and abjectly moronic idea which all the schools of morons on the entire planet together could propose.

If you really, really are oblivious to the thickness of your proposal, have a look at what Berlusconi's control of the Italian media has done to the laughing stock of the world that now is Italy.

Good points, however, I feel that RTE should see massive cutbacks, & if need be be allowed go bust, so that any ill-advised contracts it's in pass into history. Any replacement would be a leaner organization that focused on producing serious programming, which was paid for by a reduced licence fee, while it was conceded that there are so many other sources now of 'imported programming' that RTE nua just gets out of game...

robp

I would see major reasons to be concerned about the the sale of Coillte or Bord na Mona. Combined, the companies control vast tracts of Irish land. Privatisation might not necessarily involve the sale of land per se but what impact could it have on their ability to develop value in terms of public amenties/tourism and wildlife conservation. These companies have to achieve in these areas in the coming years. Both companies will need a whole lot of vision regardless of the direction taken.

Dionysus

General General wrote: »

Good points, however, I feel that RTE should see massive cutbacks, & if need be be allowed go bust, so that any ill-advised contracts it's in pass into history. Any replacement would be a leaner organization that focused on producing serious programming, which was paid for by a reduced licence fee, while it was conceded that there are so many other sources now of 'imported programming' that RTE nua just gets out of game...

No problem with that at all; as long as the new RTÉ is under state ownership I'd fully support it.

The only thing I would say - as unpopular as it is - is that the proportion of RTÉ's overall spending used up by these immoral salaries to its presenters is overall not significant enough to allow RTÉ to reduce the license fee by too much. If the licence fee is reduced significantly, we'll either have substantially more ads or a considerable reduction in the quality of programming. After all, it is usually more expensive for RTÉ to make investigations than it is to buy cheap imports from foreign tv stations.

But Finucane, Kenny, Tubridy et all should not be paid more than €100k each, and new presenters should be paid no more than €50k per annum. There'd be no shortage of talented people who'd like to get on tv at the price.

Stinicker

Dionysus wrote: »

What a pity it is that some people are unable to separate the problem of RTÉ presenters being paid ridiculous and unjustifiable amounts of money, from the idea of Ireland having a public service broadcaster free from the control of private capitalists.

So, when RTÉ is "sold off", what do you two geniuses propose will replace it? A Tony O'Reilly-owned rag tv/radio station run by Harris, Fanning and Dudley Edwards dedicated to the most ignorant and benighted elements in Irish society and attracting the dimmest and most vacuous audience which only the Sunday Independent has hitherto done? A similarly tabloidesque Denis O'Brien-owned station which glorifies tax avoiders like O'Brien and advocates increased taxes on PAYE earners and below subsistence rates of social welfare payments? Or a, heaven forfend, Rupert Murdoch-owned tv/radio station which would undermine democracy just as much as an O'Reilly or O'Brien-owned tv/radio station?

Put your cards on the table, because there's no way in God's earth that I'm going to accept the principal propaganda mouthpiece in the state in the ownership of anti-Irish tax avoiding elements like O'Reilly and O'Brien who have thus far bribed and corrupted the Irish democratic system and used Ireland as their plaything. Handing RTÉ into their hands is about the most supremely stupid, doltish, idiotic and abjectly moronic idea which all the schools of morons on the entire planet together could propose.

If you really, really are oblivious to the thickness of your proposal, have a look at what Berlusconi's control of the Italian media has done to the laughing stock of the world that now is Italy.

RTÉ is just as you describe it above now anyway so why should we have the taxpayers bailing it out to the tune of millions despite the hundreds of millions they already get from the licence fee and ontop of that as a so called public broadcaster they have to cheek to sell advertising time. They are a bloated quango of monstrosity which has served as a dumping ground for the failed careers of Fianna Fail cronies and if you think that RTÉ are some way unbiased or impartial you are kidding yourself.

At least when they would be private then firstly the onus would be operate profitably which would see the quangos running it tossed out and paycuts given as it is running heavily in the red; then as a private company it might actually compete making some interesting TV and importing good quality shows to compete properly.

At the moments RTÉ dosen't have to do shag all, it can show the same old repeats of reeling in the years, have that old Hag Anne Doyle doing the news and those menopausal weather ladies, Tubbers and Bredan O'Connor talking sh1te and spouting off FF propaganda, they are a cosy cartel they don't have to do things competitively except show up and keep their job for life and huge pension, they don't care that RTÉ are losing ratings as the taxpayer will bail them out, in the private sector if you are not doing your job you will lose it or go out of business.

What I have written above not only applies to RTÉ but to the entire public sector, those leeches are why the country is broke; yet we are going to sell off the few profitable public companies to bail out the private banks. If a small carsales man or shopkeepers goes broke will he get a bailout? Like hell he will. The entire public sector should be privatised enmasse and they would then find they have about 40 to 50% overstaffing, with the rest doing f'all work with about 10% of the staff doing any real work carry the other oafs on their back.

Dionysus

robp wrote: »

I would see major reasons to be concerned about the the sale of Coillte or Bord na Mona. Combined, the companies control vast tracts of Irish land. Privatisation might not necessarily involve the sale of land per se but what impact could it have on their ability to develop value in terms of public amenties/tourism and wildlife conservation. These companies have to achieve in these areas in the coming years. Both companies will need a whole lot of vision regardless of the direction taken.

Well highlighted. I think people in cities entirely overlook their importance. For me, as an avid hillwalker, Coillte is one of the most valuable state companies. What will happen our forestry, never mind our walkways, if Coillte is sold to a private company which is motivated solely by profit, rather than by providing Irish society with the unsurpassed environmental and leisure outlets that are forests and walkways across rural Ireland?

Monty Burnz

Zebra3 wrote: »

Then again, what do you expect when they keep voting for right-wing crooks? :rolleyes:

Right-wing crooks like Labour, currently in government?

Or specifically that reprehensible bunch of right-wing/left-wing/'wherever we think there's a vote, there we are' bastards, Fianna Failure?

Good news - they are on death's door. Let's show them through. As for the bills they left us - I'm sure FG and Labour will do their best not to let it ruin us.

karma_

It would be absolute lunacy to sell off Coillte.

D1stant

After the election, sell the Aras or open it up as an extension of the zoo

squod

D1stant wrote: »

After the election, sell the Aras or open it up as an extension of the zoo

Home for retired banjos.

ArtSmart

Zebra3 wrote: »

So we are selling off the family jewels to pay off private gambling debts?

T'rific. :rolleyes:

It'll probably be those gamblers whose losses we are covering who are gonna come in and buy these assets on the cheap.

The Irish taxpayer raped once more.

Then again, what do you expect when they keep voting for right-wing crooks? :rolleyes:

yup.


This whole area was in the background for quite a while. With Greece it was openly demanded, here, a little more quietly.

Classic stuff really. But it always the way. In war or crisis, the profiteers do well. When you have the big bobs, you win, no matter what.

A big prob is if essential services become privatised. Anyone experience the difference between ESB's approach to customer debt and Airtricity's?


Aye, the times, they are a changing.

ArtSmart

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Agree. The State's involvement in public sector TV/radio broadcasting is fair enough, but I see no role for it to bankrolling onwards and upwards failed quasi commercial media stations. Why does the State need to be so heavily involved in media, especially when sick people wait longer for treatment, children cannot access SNTs, etc etc etc. Criminal negligence by the Gov.

Re-establish a modest size public broadcast unit, eg Lyric and flog all of it's inrestes in TV and radio. The licence fee can be dramatically reduced and still finance the more modest operation.

Fat cat RTE personnel can like the rest of us go compete in the real world for a living.

It is unbelieveable that the State will have to pick up the can again for RTE's operational deficit (2011 est € 30mio) and look at the savage cutbacks and trauma in essential services. Shameful.:mad:

Sorry, rant over.

Why? 3 little symbols TV3


Imagine a world where standard TV = TV3.

Monty Burnz

ArtSmart wrote: »

Classic stuff really. But it always the way. In war or crisis, the profiteers do well. When you have the big bobs, you win, no matter what.

Well you can benefit too - share prices are at lows not seen for decades. All you need to do is put your money where your mouth is and invest in the right company. Of course this is risky, which is why you may opt not to do it - but it seems churlish to blame those that do take such risks and manage to do well out of it.

ArtSmart

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well you can benefit too - share prices are at lows not seen for decades. All you need to do is put your money where your mouth is and invest in the right company. Of course this is risky, which is why you may opt not to do it - but it seems churlish to blame those that do take such risks and manage to do well out of it.

Indeed. The Risk Takers. Of course.

Monty, you're so far off the mark, I'd nearly send Homer in to explain. Problem is, you still might not understand.

Monty Burnz

ArtSmart wrote: »

Indeed. The Risk Takers. Of course.

Monty, you're so far off the mark, I'd nearly send Homer in to explain. Problem is, you still might not understand.

Ok, I think we are veering into conspiracy theory territory here so I suggest you take your ideas and your notions about the Illuminati over ----> that way.

I see the recievership of our country by the E.U./I.M.F. is becoming a full on liquidation.


Our country is being sold from under us.

Eric Cartman

outsource the dept of social welfare to an insurance company, everyone who applies would be fought by the company figuring out every way not to pay out, wed have a social welfare system that works for those who really need it , and less civil servants just taking up space

Sonnenblumen

Dionysus wrote: »

What a pity it is that some people are unable to separate the problem of RTÉ presenters being paid ridiculous and unjustifiable amounts of money, from the idea of Ireland having a public service broadcaster free from the control of private capitalists.

So, when RTÉ is "sold off", what do you two geniuses propose will replace it? A Tony O'Reilly-owned rag tv/radio station run by Harris, Fanning and Dudley Edwards dedicated to the most ignorant and benighted elements in Irish society and attracting the dimmest and most vacuous audience which only the Sunday Independent has hitherto done? A similarly tabloidesque Denis O'Brien-owned station which glorifies tax avoiders like O'Brien and advocates increased taxes on PAYE earners and below subsistence rates of social welfare payments? Or a, heaven forfend, Rupert Murdoch-owned tv/radio station which would undermine democracy just as much as an O'Reilly or O'Brien-owned tv/radio station?

Put your cards on the table, because there's no way in God's earth that I'm going to accept the principal propaganda mouthpiece in the state in the ownership of anti-Irish tax avoiding elements like O'Reilly and O'Brien who have thus far bribed and corrupted the Irish democratic system and used Ireland as their plaything. Handing RTÉ into their hands is about the most supremely stupid, doltish, idiotic and abjectly moronic idea which all the schools of morons on the entire planet together could propose.

If you really, really are oblivious to the thickness of your proposal, have a look at what Berlusconi's control of the Italian media has done to the laughing stock of the world that now is Italy.

The last Ark has left port. So you can become a hermit because most western countries have commercialised the media. I don't see any shortcomings of any consequence.

BTW, if you read correctly, I suggested the State retainiing a much smaller public broadcasting role, ie get out of loss making junk entertainment programming.

Why don't you learn to discriminate and bin your state spoon feeding dependency.

ArtSmart

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

The last Ark has left port. So you can become a hermit because most western countries have commercialised the media. I don't see any shortcomings of any consequence.

BTW, if you read correctly, I suggested the State retainiing a much smaller public broadcasting role, ie get out of loss making junk entertainment programming.

Why don't you learn to discriminate and bin your state spoon feeding dependency.

But supposing one only had a diet of TV3 or ITV? Then what?

Who pays for the stomach pump then? huh?

Sonnenblumen

ArtSmart wrote: »

Why? 3 little symbols TV3


Imagine a world where standard TV = TV3.

Bad and all that might be, nobody will die, which is not the case with the effects of Gov cutbacks. but I'm pretty sure more people would agree it does not come near to the proposed cuts in essential services and all the dire consequences for the people affected affected.

Sorry this corrupted organization has outlived it's usefulness and is another version of the FAS scandal. Why should citizens suffer whilst grossly overpaid Z celebs etc are creaming it ?

Citizens come before RTE!!

ríomhaire

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Government is to establish a new unit to oversee the sale of State Assets. Amongst the early favourites are ESB, Coillte, Bord Gais etc. But there seems to be desire to extend this list to generate as much badly needed revenue. So what other State Assets should be added to the list for consideration?

I would add RTE.

I think a state-funded news provider is a good thing. There is the obvious fear of the government trying to exercise control over the media by this but I've never found RTE to be pro-government or show much loyalty to it and I think a media company whose primary goal is to provide news and information to the people is a good thing to have. When you have media that is purely out to make profits you end up with things like Fox News and the Daily Mail.

That said RTE2/Radio 2 could be sold off and I wouldn't give a damn. I just think a public news source is a good thing and the RTE news at least should be kept public.

Edit: I have no idea about how much RTE costs/profits/looses. If it's making huge losses/being a black hole in the government finances then it should be trimmed down and re-organised better, not sold off entirely.

ArtSmart

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Bad and all that might be, nobody will die, which is not the case with the effects of Gov cutbacks. but I'm pretty sure more people would agree it does not come near to the proposed cuts in essential services and all the dire consequences for the people affected affected.

Sorry this corrupted organization has outlived it's usefulness and is another version of the FAS scandal. Why should citizens suffer whilst grossly overpaid Z celebs etc are creaming it ?

Citizens come before RTE!!

What he said. (below) though i dont think rte 2should be sold, just slapped about a bit. (quite a bit)

ríomhaire wrote: »

I think a state-funded news provider is a good thing. There is the obvious fear of the government trying to exercise control over the media by this but I've never found RTE to be pro-government or show much loyalty to it and I think a media company whose primary goal is to provide news and information to the people is a good thing to have. When you have media that is purely out to make profits you end up with things like Fox News and the Daily Mail.

That said RTE2/Radio 2 could be sold off and I wouldn't give a damn. I just think a public news source is a good thing and the RTE news at least should be kept public.

Edit: I have no idea about how much RTE costs/profits/looses. If it's making huge losses/being a black hole in the government finances then it should be trimmed down and re-organised better, not sold off entirely.

squod

ríomhaire wrote: »

I've never found RTE to be pro-government or show much loyalty to it

That's just bizarre! The coverage of the Anglo bail-out fraud was nothing short of scandalous. Their' treatment of left-wing politicians in the run up to the GE was shocking.
RTE are a function of government IMO. The crap they come out with sometimes beggars belief.

Zebra3

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Right-wing crooks like Labour, currently in government?

Or specifically that reprehensible bunch of right-wing/left-wing/'wherever we think there's a vote, there we are' bastards, Fianna Failure?

Good news - they are on death's door. Let's show them through. As for the bills they left us - I'm sure FG and Labour will do their best not to let it ruin us.

Labour couldn't give a toss. They're just delighted to be back in "power".

Our country was destroyed by FF with the collaboration of the Greens and too many Irish morons who were quite happy and even smug in their voting for cute hoors.

Neither FG or Lab will stand up for the ordinary taxpayer. It's about feathering their own nests so they get well paid jobs when they're out of government (look at Dick spring for example).

It's the EU/IMF who are running this country.

Maybe the tricolour should be taken down from public buildings so it really starts to hit home with people. Probably worth a poll in a seperate thread.

Monty Burnz

Zebra3 wrote: »

Neither FG or Lab will stand up for the ordinary taxpayer. It's about feathering their own nests so they get well paid jobs when they're out of government (look at Dick spring for example).

I agree, most politicians are not opposed to feathering their own nests, but I don't think that most of them would (deliberately) screw their own country to do so. And I think there are some idealists in politics too - I despair mostly for their competence rather than their motivation.

Zebra3

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I agree, most politicians are not opposed to feathering their own nests, but I don't think that most of them would (deliberately) screw their own country to do so. And I think there are some idealists in politics too - I despair mostly for their competence rather than their motivation.

Well there have been many examples since FG/Lab came to power of them not standing up for the taxpayer and making us pay for private gambling losses.

One example, there is a €20Bn loss by foreign banks landing to Irish banks that was to be picked up by an American insurance company. The Americans told the Irish government to foot the bill.

This was never mentioned by the cowards in our government when they invited Obama over.

People in Ireland will now die as a result of Americans not being such big fans of capitalism after all. And because of the meek vermin in government here.

Corsendonk

DNA- Iceland tried it a couple of years ago.

SafeSurfer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I agree, most politicians are not opposed to feathering their own nests, but I don't think that most of them would (deliberately) screw their own country to do so. And I think there are some idealists in politics too - I despair mostly for their competence rather than their motivation.

A great many politicians are politicians simply because their father/mother/uncle was a ploitician before them. No great idealism there.

The vast majority of TDs begin there careers by becoming involved in student or local politics. My experience of many people invloved in student and local politics is that they are borderline sociopaths.

Think of a politician you know personally and compare their personality with this list.

Glibness/superficial charm and also

Manipulative and conning

• Grandiose sense of self
• Pathological lying
• Lack of remorse, shame or guilt
• Shallow emotions
• Incapacity for love
• Need for stimulation
• Callousness/lack of empathy
• Poor behavioral controls/impulsive nature
• Early behavior problems/juvenile delinquency
• Irresponsibility/unreliability
• Promiscuous sexual behavior/infidelity
• Lack of realistic life plan/parasitic lifestyle
• Criminal or entrepreneurial versatility
• Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
• Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
• Authoritarian
• Secretive
• Paranoid
• Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
• Conventional appearance
• Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
• Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
• Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
• Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
• Incapable of real human attachment to another
• Unable to feel remorse or guilt
• Narcissism, grandiosity (self-importance not based on achievements)
• May state readily that their goal is to rule the world