Equal Tax Rights for Co-Habitating Couples.

Evelyn Martina

Hi,

Just wondering if there is like minded people out there who are fed up with Ireland's governments attitude to cohabitating couples and equal tax rights.

I have been living with my partner for nearly 12 years, we have two children aged 3 & 10. I decided to stay at home with my children for the last two years and my partner is supporting us. But he is being taxed as a single person and gets no tax relief whatsoever for his family. We were both out of work last year and when it came to social welfare we were classed as a unit. I applied for my own social welfare when he got a new job and i was means tested on his earnings. Our earnings are so low and my partner is being taxed so much that we cannot afford to get married and why should i be forced to get married just to have some form of equal rights, my relationship has lasted longer than most marriages. :mad:

In this day and age how can the governments sit there and think that this situation is ok and not a breach of human rights. That my children and i should not be treated the same as a married couple.

Anyway my point is i am sick of just sitting and complaining and doing nothing, so i am here to found out if there is anybody trying to do anything about this situation and can i help.

PS willing to camp outside government offices at this stage until i have equal rights.:(


Please Help

srsly78

You can afford to get married, just go into registry office. Big fancy expensive ceremony is not actually necessary.

Yes the rules are stupid, but learn to work the system or it will crush you.

Evelyn Martina

Thanks for the response. But my point is i don't necessarily want to get married and why should i, it doesn't matter when it comes to Social Welfare and they are giving you money but it does matter when it comes to tax. And if nobody complains or does anything about it, the system wins in the end. We have a voice but we choose not to use it most of the time.

srsly78

Yeah it's a bit mad. If you shacked up with another woman you wouldn't have a problem I think, thanks to new same-sex legislation.

Just go pay the small free for reg office. Either that or destroy your sanity fighting the system. Sign pre-nuptial agreements if you are afraid of bloke nicking your loot or vice-versa.

Mr. Incognito

Marriage is protected in the Constitution and it would take a constitutional referendum to change the current system.

But there is a form you can fill out that will give you equal tax rights, inheritence rights, and will legitimaise your children in the eyes of the law.

It's called a marriage certificate. If you don't care about getting married then don't think of it as a marriage with all the bells and whistles but merely another form that gives you rights.

barneystinson

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Marriage is protected in the Constitution and it would take a constitutional referendum to change the current system.

But there is a form you can fill out that will give you equal tax rights, inheritence rights, and will legitimaise your children in the eyes of the law.

It's called a marriage certificate. If you don't care about getting married then don't think of it as a marriage with all the bells and whistles but merely another form that gives you rights.

It won't take a Referendum to change the tax code, what would be needed is a change in the Civil Partnership Legislation to extend Civil Partnership to heterosexual couples...

The way I see it is like this:

• Civil partnership is not marriage (as Mr I says that precious nugget is constitutionally protected).
• Civil partners are afforded the same / similar treatment under the tax code to a married couple.
• Civil partnership is only available to same sex couples.
• Heterosexual couples are therefore discriminated against on grounds of sexual orientation; by not being allowed enter into a civil partnership in the first place (and as a consequence not being able to avail of the preferential tax treatment...)
• Obviously a heterosexual couple has the option available to get married, but in law that's something different - indeed one can make the inverse argument that the state still discriminates against same sex couples by not allowing them to marry, but that would require a Referendum to resolve.

Am I wrong?

Mr. Incognito

well,

there is a problem with the interpretation.

The State has a guarantee in the consitiution to uphold marriage and can positively discriminate against unmarried persons as a result.

It is possible to extend the provisions of the civil partnership bill and in a government with a large majority they should really do so in light of the demographics of the country these days.

Also it's interesting to note that the president cannot refer Finance Bills for an Article 26 reference to check if they are compatible with the constitution so I guess there wouldn't need to be a referendum.

cladda1112

Evelyn Martina I totaly understand and agree with what you are saying. In the same situation as you with two children. The point is on one side the goverment take in to consideration what our partners are earning if we look for anything ie welfare etc but our partners are not intitled to our tax free allowance etc. Which i dont think is unfair. Also its not as much that i cant afford to get married(which i cannot) but more why should I. Its stuff like this that make people use the system. As i dont think you will ever beat it.

detective

I'm no solicitor or barrister but I would imagine that if this was fought all the way to the High and Supreme courts then a cohabiting couple, and particularly one with children, would stand a great chance of success. There is no doubt that children of married couples are better off than those of cohabitants through no fault of their own.

It also appears that Article 41.2(1&2) of the constitution is not being upheld by the government when it comes to the mothers of cohabitants' children.

It's a interesting anomaly which is wide open for abuse and in certain cases make it more beneficial for Co-hab couples not to live together or get married. If, for example, your partner moved out of the family home then you would be entitled to the single parents allowance and would be means tested as a single person for other social welfare payments. You could also put your name on the housing list and would probably get priority on the basis that you have children.

Mr. Incognito

detective wrote: »

I'm no solicitor or barrister but I would imagine that if this was fought all the way to the High and Supreme courts then a cohabiting couple, and particularly one with children, would stand a great chance of success. There is no doubt that children of married couples are better off than those of cohabitants through no fault of their own.

It also appears that Article 41.2(1&2) of the constitution is not being upheld by the government when it comes to the mothers of cohabitants' children.

There has been court cases on this. In one a married couple took a case that two individuals were better off taxed seperately in tax law so the government instead of putting them in the same position cut single persons allowance back so they were on parity.

Truust me a co-habitating couple have ZERO chance of winning a court case when marriage is protected in the constitution. The constitutions trumps all other laws.

Evelyn Martina

Thanks for all the informative replies and valuable information, i've gone away and done a lot of research since i was last on and i think i am now reciting a large section of our constitution in my sleep which is not a bad thing as i think we should all have an idea of what our country stands for and what our laws are based on and to know your rights so few people ever bother or care.

But has hopeless as it seems i'm not willing to give up the fight yet, i fully believe in the power of the people and where there is a will there is a way.

I accept that for now i wont get the better of the system, so my partner and i have decided to just pay the 150 and take the plunge but that's not to say i have given in, i'll still be fighting all the way in trying to change things and equal rights for all. Who knows what a new president might bring, i see a glimmer of hope on the horizon.

Mr. Incognito

Congratulations on your fortcoming numptuals I suppose