Local authority civil engineering positions

david4791

Are most local authority engineering positions filled in house?
I ask the question as I have applied for many when my experience and qualifications should have at least got me to the shortlist.

I spoke with a career advisor last spring who stated local authority positions go to internal staff and family of ex staff, if this is the case it's very depressing.

Any experiences out there?

yourpics

Alot of the local authorities are on a recruitment ban.
Also, if you look on job bridge, a significant number of them are offering internships

Thegingerbear

Some Local Authorities are recruiting, Dublin City Council was looking for Engineers last month and so were Fingal. The positions are certainly not going to internal staff. Anyone can apply for the positions but in the current climate the competition is very keen. If your experience is not relevant then your chances of being called to interview are pretty slim. There are Engineers applying for positions such as Assistant Engineer with in excess of ten years experience, back in the boom if you had 18 months experience you were guaranteed an interview.

david4791

Hi Gingerbear, I applied for Dublin City Council post for senior engineer, I have 11 years post grad exp in civil projects from a contracting and consulting background, I didn't make shortlist. I spoke with Hr who stated 98 engineers applied for this one position. I'm have now applied to fingal for the post of RE which only requires five years exp just to get in the door. Tough out there with serious competition, employers getting great value for money.

modmuffin

david4791 wrote: »

Hi Gingerbear, I applied for Dublin City Council post for senior engineer, I have 11 years post grad exp in civil projects from a contracting and consulting background, I didn't make shortlist. I spoke with Hr who stated 98 engineers applied for this one position. I'm have now applied to fingal for the post of RE which only requires five years exp just to get in the door. Tough out there with serious competition, employers getting great value for money.

I work for DCC and I can guarantee that these jobs are not earmarked for internal staff. There is a feeling amoung internal staff that there is a bias against them to be honest (i dont agree with this feeling).

For example internal staff with 12/13 years of very relevent experience did not get shortlisted for the Senior Executive Engineer positions never mind the Senior Engineer positions (there is 2 senior positions to be filled i believe).

I know of 4 internal candidates that were shortlisted for the Senior Engineer jobs all have well over 20 years experience.

These job specs were very specific and i wouldnt be too disheartened at not getting shortlisted. Did you not apply for the Senior Exec positions aswell?

Apparently there will be more and more of these jobs popping up as there is a LOAD of vacant positions so keep trying would be my advice.

Best of luck

david4791

Hello mod muffin, very interesting reply. Good to hear there may be more vacancies in the future. I guess many people these days are applying for lesser roles to get a foot in the door. There are hugely qualified people applying for positions they would have dreamed of in the past ten years. I'm sorry now I didn't apply for snr exec position, I had my heart set on snr Eng position. We live and learn for next time. Thanks again for update.

I'm currently the senior RE on a sewerage scheme which is coming to a head, I have applied to Fingal co co for RE role n Leixlip WTP upgrade which only requires five years post grad exp, however I'm sure it will go to a person with min ten years exp as they are ten a penny at the moment.

yourpics

david4791 wrote: »

Hello mod muffin, very interesting reply. Good to hear there may be more vacancies in the future. I guess many people these days are applying for lesser roles to get a foot in the door. There are hugely qualified people applying for positions they would have dreamed of in the past ten years. I'm sorry now I didn't apply for snr exec position, I had my heart set on snr Eng position. We live and learn for next time. Thanks again for update.

I'm currently the senior RE on a sewerage scheme which is coming to a head, I have applied to Fingal co co for RE role n Leixlip WTP upgrade which only requires five years post grad exp, however I'm sure it will go to a person with min ten years exp as they are ten a penny at the moment.

Yeah your definetly right there, people with 10 years exp are applying to job bridge.

Thegingerbear

It's worth remembering if you are a new employee with a Local Authority they will start you at the bottom of the pay scale regardless of experience. The rule was introduced in January of this year. If you are transfering from another Local Authority you'll be fine.

david4791

Didn't realise that GB, thanks for update

REFLINE1

Thegingerbear wrote: »

Some Local Authorities are recruiting, Dublin City Council was looking for Engineers last month and so were Fingal. The positions are certainly not going to internal staff. Anyone can apply for the positions but in the current climate the competition is very keen. If your experience is not relevant then your chances of being called to interview are pretty slim. There are Engineers applying for positions such as Assistant Engineer with in excess of ten years experience, back in the boom if you had 18 months experience you were guaranteed an interview.

Where do these posts tend to be adverstised?

Dunphus

REFLINE1 wrote: »

Where do these posts tend to be adverstised?

You might have some luck with www.publicjobs.ie

Brian CivilEng

For these types of jobs you would find them advertised on http://localgovernmentjobs.ie/ rather than the public jobs website.

Gumbo

Thegingerbear wrote: »

It's worth remembering if you are a new employee with a Local Authority they will start you at the bottom of the pay scale regardless of experience. The rule was introduced in January of this year. If you are transfering from another Local Authority you'll be fine.

this rule was in effect well well before this year. when i joined, it was required to have 2 years experience post qualification, i had 5, but you still start on the bottom payscale, unless you were in another PS role, where your salary was higher, then you start on the most similar point on that scale.

but it is worth noting, that new employees will start on 10% less than the current salary scales folling last years budget and cut backs.

annfield1978

kceire wrote: »

this rule was in effect well well before this year. when i joined, it was required to have 2 years experience post qualification, i had 5, but you still start on the bottom payscale, unless you were in another PS role, where your salary was higher, then you start on the most similar point on that scale.

but it is worth noting, that new employees will start on 10% less than the current salary scales folling last years budget and cut backs.

ignoring this new rule, what level would a chartered engineer with 10 yrs experiecnce come in at?

Gumbo

annfield1978 wrote: »

ignoring this new rule, what level would a chartered engineer with 10 yrs experiecnce come in at?

tbh, it means nothing what your qualifications are, aslong as you meet the criteria of the role being offered.

ie. if you applied for a role of Engineer, and the salary started at 42k, then you would start at the bottom scale of 42k, aslong as your minimum qualifications meet the criteria for "engineer".

Your extras may give you a better chance of getting the job, but it doesnt bump up your salary or entitle you to start on a higher point on that salary scale (unless of course your coming from another PS job as Engineer where your salary was already above 42k).

david4791

The tables have really turned now, it's an employer's Market at present. For years it was the other way round particularly in the private sector where engineers could command a large salary.

It's really a shame to think a chartered engineer with 11 years post grad exp goes back to circa 40 to 50k when I'm not from a local authority position.

Lumbo

david4791 wrote: »

I spoke with a career advisor last spring who stated local authority positions go to internal staff and family of ex staff, if this is the case it's very depressing.

Any experiences out there?

I worked in Recruitment for a large Local Authority until 2007. Your career adviser hasn't a clue. In 2004/05 we had such difficulty in getting Engineer's and associated grades to work for us that we'd to advertise around Europe and at one stage had to send some managers/Engineers to South Africa to interview staff (some of those interviewed still work for us). Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there will many Engineering positions any time soon. They need to get rid of people before they can recruit anymore.

david4791

What do work at now lumbo?

Gumbo

david4791 wrote: »

The tables have really turned now, it's an employer's Market at present. For years it was the other way round particularly in the private sector where engineers could command a large salary.

It's really a shame to think a chartered engineer with 11 years post grad exp goes back to circa 40 to 50k when I'm not from a local authority position.

My figures were used simply for handiness, im not sure what the salaries are for engineers, it could be more, but point one on the scale is not much more. Graduates start on late 30's IIRC (before cut backs and 10% wage drop for new employees)

Lumbo wrote: »

I worked in Recruitment for a large Local Authority until 2007. Your career adviser hasn't a clue. In 2004/05 we had such difficulty in getting Engineer's and associated grades to work for us that we'd to advertise around Europe and at one stage had to send some managers/Engineers to South Africa to interview staff (some of those interviewed still work for us). Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there will many Engineering positions any time soon. They need to get rid of people before they can recruit anymore.

+1

In one case for Technicians, one LA had to advertise 3 times in the National Papers in order to get 11 or so new staff!

I remember Dublin City Council looking for Technicians in circa 2003 while i was working in the private sectot as a Technician (consulting engineers office, and part time in DIT) and the salaries were circa 23k, they couldnt get the staff.

While talking to the engineers in work then, they said why would they give up their salaries for a 15k cut to take a counil job?

but that was then, totally different now

Lumbo

david4791 wrote: »

What do work at now lumbo?

I'm a HR Specialist with a Local Authority. I mainly deal with employee relations issues.

Lu Tze

kceire wrote: »

My figures were used simply for handiness, im not sure what the salaries are for engineers, it could be more, but point one on the scale is not much more. Graduates start on late 30's IIRC (before cut backs and 10% wage drop for new employees)

In 2006 pre cuts etc. the starting salary for a graduate in a local authority was €33,000 pa, associate engineer €42,000 (which is the pay scale you reference above)

kceire wrote: »

In one case for Technicians, one LA had to advertise 3 times in the National Papers in order to get 11 or so new staff!

I remember Dublin City Council looking for Technicians in circa 2003 while i was working in the private sectot as a Technician (consulting engineers office, and part time in DIT) and the salaries were circa 23k, they couldnt get the staff.

While talking to the engineers in work then, they said why would they give up their salaries for a 15k cut to take a counil job?

but that was then, totally different now

Despite being offered 2 local authority jobs in 2006, I took the highest paying consulting job I could get, at €29,000. Bit of a change in scenario from 2003 eh?

The reason the LAs couldn't attract people to junior roles is they couldn't provide them generally with interesting technical work with proper development. Not the money, which was definitely at the higher end, and very competitive at the time compared to the private sector.

Still glad I didn't opt for the LA though.

Dunphus

Lu Tze wrote: »

The reason the LAs couldn't attract people to junior roles is they couldn't provide them generally with interesting technical work with proper development. Not the money, which was definitely at the higher end, and very competitive at the time compared to the private sector.

I briefly worked as a LA authority engineer and left due to those reasons, this was back in 2008. I think when I started I was on about 36k or 38k though as you don't start on the lowest grade if you have an honours degree

Gumbo

Lu Tze wrote: »

Despite being offered 2 local authority jobs in 2006, I took the highest paying consulting job I could get, at €29,000. Bit of a change in scenario from 2003 eh?

The reason the LAs couldn't attract people to junior roles is they couldn't provide them generally with interesting technical work with proper development. Not the money, which was definitely at the higher end, and very competitive at the time compared to the private sector.

Still glad I didn't opt for the LA though.

good point, i think you may have hit the nail on the head there. Im glad i stuck at it in the private sector as i would not of gotten the experience, education or the large variant of projects if i had of joined the LA back then.

Although im glad im in an LA now, less salary of course but still on a full week thank god. i got into the LA in 2009, so the shutters were actually comming down on my back as i joined up