Most likely to beat New Zealand

matthew8

Now that Australia have been made look quite ordinary against us, New Zealand are massive favourites to win the world cup, but they could be beaten by someone, the question is: Who? Of course we are hoping that should we get to the final that someone else would do us a favour.

Ireland, Wales and Argentina, I have to say, don't look like teams capable of beating New Zealand, especially in New Zealand. However I am sure some of you see something in these teams that makes them capable of a massive upset.

England are on a nice run of form of course and could spring an upset if they beat New Zealand in the final. Their backs have their days while the pack can stand up to New Zealand's pack.

France beat New Zealand in New Zealand in 2009 and though they lost badly to them in the group stages as we all know are capable of having brilliant days on which they can beat anyone.

Australia are the most recent team to beat New Zealand, and a strong New Zealand team at that, however it has been quite a while since they beat New Zealand away from home. They are not a team to write off.

South Africa are on a poor run of form apart from beating New Zealand 18-5 at home. The boks are a complete side with impeccable goalkicking and fear no one. Though New Zealand have superior backs, South Africa are one of the few teams that could dominate New Zealand in the set pieces.

mikedragon32

I have a sneaking feeling France were holding back, not showing all their cards in the event they meet in the final.

If they do meet again, I think it'll be a much tighter affair.

Savage Tyrant

Ireland! - I wish.
South Africa have the best chance though.

SuprSi

mikedragon32 wrote: »

I have a sneaking feeling France were holding back, not showing all their cards in the event they meet in the final.

If they do meet again, I think it'll be a much tighter affair.

I agree. I think the French have the players and the potential to beat anyone in the competition, the question is whether the good French team or the tempremental French team turn up.

SomeFool

south africa or france, whoever they meet first, think it's likely to be the saffers.

walshb

SA for me. They have that mental strength and physical skill. I think tri nations are important, but with SA, they seem to rise to the challenge at the big stage. I would back them to beat NZ

MungBean

Voted for Ireland. Here my reasoning.

Neither South Africa or Australia look like they will be able to beat NZ to me. They have both looked average enough so far and wont take them out in the semi's.

A final is a game unto itself anything can happen. I honestly think Ireland will reach the final so Ireland are the only ones with a chance of beating them. We will beat Wales in quarters, England will beat France and we will beat England.

Should France beat England then I wouldnt be so confident though.

cgpg5

Reckon SA will have 'em in the semis!

tolosenc

Their game against Argentina will be a bruiser. I reckon the Bokke will have a fair go at them in the semis.

Springboks - Ireland final, anyone?

molloyjh

tolosenc wrote: »

Their game against Argentina will be a bruiser. I reckon the Bokke will have a fair go at them in the semis.

Springboks - Ireland final, anyone?

Certainly not impossible. And of the 3 potential opponents I think the Boks are the ones we'd have the best chance with.

corny

France, England, Australia or SA can beat them. Actually i'm not that big on the New Zealanders. They're certainly worthy favourites but i don't agree with what seems to be the prevailing opinion that if you beat NZ you win the WC. They're unchallenged (the French were sandbagging) so far and if any team can hang with them for 70 i'd have money on the pressure being too much for them..... again. The Saffas seem to have a new found intensity/physicality i don't think any team can match so they'd be the biggest threat for me.

walshb

MungBean wrote: »

Voted for Ireland. Here my reasoning.

Neither South Africa or Australia look like they will be able to beat NZ to me. They have both looked average enough so far and wont take them out in the semi's.

A final is a game unto itself anything can happen. I honestly think Ireland will reach the final so Ireland are the only ones with a chance of beating them. We will beat Wales in quarters, England will beat France and we will beat England.

Should France beat England then I wouldnt be so confident though.

Good post.

One thing: If England can beat them, we can. I think we will beat Wales, and beat England. But, France seem to be a very difficult team for us.

England and Wales will both be extremely tough matches, but I reckon we can beat them. I would have to make France the favorites against us.

allimac

mikedragon32 wrote: »

I have a sneaking feeling France were holding back, not showing all their cards in the event they meet in the final.

If they do meet again, I think it'll be a much tighter affair.

Sneaky feeling?I think that anyone watching that knew for definitive what the french were up to and good luck to them.I hope we beat them in the semi.

Trojan

There's no "New Zealand" option in that poll...

RuggieBear

Trojan wrote: »

There's no "New Zealand" option in that poll...

exactly.

i'd vote for the "themselves" option.....

i'll add it

Pherekydes

MungBean wrote: »

Voted for Ireland.

I voted Australia (though I think the winner of the AUS/RSA QF has the best chance).

For your pick, the following has to happen:

NZL bt ARG
and
NZL win SF
and
IRL bt WAL
and
IRL win SF vs ENG or FRA
and
IRL bt NZL

For my pick, the following has to happen:
NZL bt ARG
and
AUS bt RSA
and
AUS bt NZL

Clearlier

In a NZ - Ireland final I'd put my house on NZ. We've never been to a final, we've never beaten NZ and the game is in NZ. There's always hope - Ulster winning the European cup for example was a surprise on a similar level although they did play a poor team in the final having beaten the best teams on the way there - however it's a pretty unlikely scenario especially as we still haven't worked out how to play well under pressure. I'd be much happier playing SA or Aus if we were to reach the final. All that said I do get worried that we might lose focus, lose to Italy and not get out of the group or scrape past Italy and lose to Wales, then we've hardly ever beaten the French recently..... The final is still a long way away. I think that NZ will win it.

irishh_bob

Clearlier wrote: »

In a NZ - Ireland final I'd put my house on NZ. We've never been to a final, we've never beaten NZ and the game is in NZ. There's always hope - Ulster winning the European cup for example was a surprise on a similar level although they did play a poor team in the final having beaten the best teams on the way there - however it's a pretty unlikely scenario especially as we still haven't worked out how to play well under pressure. I'd be much happier playing SA or Aus if we were to reach the final. All that said I do get worried that we might lose focus, lose to Italy and not get out of the group or scrape past Italy and lose to Wales, then we've hardly ever beaten the French recently..... The final is still a long way away. I think that NZ will win it.

south africa or australia might beat the all blacks for us , paving the way for us to beat either of them in the final

ps , i dont think we could beat south africa :mad:

Fishooks12

Clearlier wrote: »

In a NZ - Ireland final I'd put my house on NZ. We've never been to a final, we've never beaten NZ and the game is in NZ. There's always hope - Ulster winning the European cup for example was a surprise on a similar level although they did play a poor team in the final having beaten the best teams on the way there - however it's a pretty unlikely scenario especially as we still haven't worked out how to play well under pressure. I'd be much happier playing SA or Aus if we were to reach the final. All that said I do get worried that we might lose focus, lose to Italy and not get out of the group or scrape past Italy and lose to Wales, then we've hardly ever beaten the French recently..... The final is still a long way away. I think that NZ will win it.

How ill-informed.

1. You say Ireland can't win a game under pressure, yet we closed out the Australians under massive pressure two weeks ago. Not to mention the cup winning pedigree instilled in the side through the Munster and Leinster players.

2. If Ireland do make it to the final, anything can happen. Ireland would have nothing to lose in that scenario, the longer we stayed in the game the more pressure we'd put on the kiwis.

Long way to go yet but nothing is impossible

jimmybeige

Fishooks12 wrote: »

How ill-informed.

1. You say Ireland can't win a game under pressure, yet we closed out the Australians under massive pressure two weeks ago. Not to mention the cup winning pedigree instilled in the side through the Munster and Leinster players.

2. If Ireland do make it to the final, anything can happen. Ireland would have nothing to lose in that scenario, the longer we stayed in the game the more pressure we'd put on the kiwis.

Long way to go yet but nothing is impossible

I don't think it's ill-informed to say that we would struggle to beat a NZ team at home that we have never beaten. And Ireland definitely do struggle in high pressure games. The Australia game isn't even a good example of that, they hadn't played well for many games, Australia are tri-nations champions and we were massive underdogs. That is how Ireland prefer it and a bit of the pressure is off when they are not expected to win. We rarely beat SH teams in the SH, which is why the Australia game was such a great win and probably their biggest yet in the RWC.

I would say South Africa would have the best chance of beating NZ in the RWC.

The_Kew_Tour

Fishooks12 wrote: »

How ill-informed.

1. You say Ireland can't win a game under pressure, yet we closed out the Australians under massive pressure two weeks ago. Not to mention the cup winning pedigree instilled in the side through the Munster and Leinster players.

one game and yet there are plenty of other games where under the pressure Ireland have failed to deliver..

LuckyCharms

The kiwis seem to be most fearful of SA over everyone else so id pick them.

Spoken to quite a few over the past couple weeks here and they all mention SA as the only team they fear if it came down to it.

Clearlier

Fishooks12 wrote: »

How ill-informed.

1. You say Ireland can't win a game under pressure, yet we closed out the Australians under massive pressure two weeks ago. Not to mention the cup winning pedigree instilled in the side through the Munster and Leinster players.

2. If Ireland do make it to the final, anything can happen. Ireland would have nothing to lose in that scenario, the longer we stayed in the game the more pressure we'd put on the kiwis.

Long way to go yet but nothing is impossible

Thanks for the compliment!

1. I didn't say that Ireland can't win under pressure. I said that we haven't worked out how to play well under pressure. I stand by that although I could perhaps have elucidated the 'under pressure' a bit more (although other posters appear to have understood the reference). I was referring more to the burden of favouritism than perhaps you are. The Australia game was a step up but we were under very little pressure going into that game. If we qualify for the quarter final we'll be playing Wales and then we'll be favourites and under pressure again. It's also a concern expressed by many that this Irish team has failed to reach the heights that recently Leinster and latterly Munster have reached.

2. Of course anything can happen in a final, anything can happen in any game. I was trying to suggest what I think is likely to happen. What I hope would happen is a completely different kettle of fish. What do you think is likely to happen?

P.S. I put down South Africa as most likely to beat NZ but in truth I think that they are deservedly heavy favourites to win the competition. They won't make the mistake of underestimating South Africa or Australia as they repeatedly have done with France and should they win through to the final they'll beat:

France because the French will actually have something to play for.
England because they're just too limited
Ireland because we'll wilt under the pressure even more than NZ because it's all new territory for us
Wales because they won't have any fear of losing to Wales but they'll be fully focused because it's the final.

All that said none of us are unaware of NZ's previous failures and they could implode again or they could simply lose to SA or Aus because they're just not a significantly better team than them.

Fight_Night

I can see NZ giving us or Wales a lamb basting should either of us make the final. The Boks and Australia have the psychological advantage of regularly playing them and coming away with results. England, doubtful. France could definitely beat them should they meet in the final, but I could also see it go the other way and France end up losing by 30+ points. I really do not think we have much of a chance against NZ in a regular match, but the WC final is different, anything could happen. Still don't think we'd win but we'd have a better chance.

CatFromHue

If we get NZ in the final and beat them then we'd be the deserved world champions.

matthew8

RuggieBear wrote: »

exactly.

i'd vote for the "themselves" option.....

i'll add it

Trojan wrote: »

There's no "New Zealand" option in that poll...

I meant beat as in win against... Obviously if Ireland, Wales or the Argies win some of it will have to be NZ beating themselves.

Reloc8

CatFromHue wrote: »

If we get NZ in the final and beat them then we'd be the deserved world champions.

The organisers of understatement of the century will be in touch with your prize shortly

Conas

Like many others are thinking there's always the chance NZ will bottle it. I still think France are the one side they'll fear the most come knockout given the history between them.

Ireland have a massive chance aswell, if they have the belief like they did against Australia and defend like they did too. I think NZ front row in the loose is weak enough and can be exploited. If NZ are upset at the breakdown, and there backs don't get space they'll struggle big time. Part of the problem is teams give their backs too much space. There under pressure they win, which means their the most vulnerable team in the competition.